| Hmmm, it's such a blanket term that it would take a long time to describe. Basically, poor writing can be many things, not limited to: -Plot holes -Characters acting irrationally stupid -Unlikeable heroes -A story taking itself way more seriously than it should (ex. most magic school harems) -Lack of characterization -Lack of character development -Trying too hard for shock value (OW THE EDGE, aka killing characters off, most uses of rape, etc.) -Melodrama -Pacing issues If anyone thinks of some more, feel free to add. |
KaoruMatsuoka said: Hmmm, it's such a blanket term that it would take a long time to describe. Basically, poor writing can be many things, not limited to: -Plot holes -Characters acting irrationally stupid -Unlikeable heroes -A story taking itself way more seriously than it should (ex. most magic school harems) -Lack of characterization -Lack of character development -Trying too hard for shock value (OW THE EDGE, aka killing characters off, most uses of rape, etc.) -Melodrama -Pacing issues If anyone thinks of some more, feel free to add. ^ That's all I think. Is forced comedy also bad writing? |
| Thinking..... |
| -skipping important stuff that happened on manga/ln/vn -poor characterization -no development at all -bad pacing (rushing/filler episodes) |
stickermans50 said: Yeah, probably. Comic relief being used where it really shouldn't be (where the story needs to be serious) most definitely is, and unfunny comedy probably is as well.KaoruMatsuoka said: Hmmm, it's such a blanket term that it would take a long time to describe. Basically, poor writing can be many things, not limited to: -Plot holes -Characters acting irrationally stupid -Unlikeable heroes -A story taking itself way more seriously than it should (ex. most magic school harems) -Lack of characterization -Lack of character development -Trying too hard for shock value (OW THE EDGE, aka killing characters off, most uses of rape, etc.) -Melodrama -Pacing issues If anyone thinks of some more, feel free to add. ^ That's all I think. Is forced comedy also bad writing? |
KaoruMatsuoka said: Yeah, probably. Comic relief being used where it really shouldn't be (where the story needs to be serious) most definitely is, and unfunny comedy probably is as well. Agreed. If one's comedy isn't funny, They really shouldn't incorporate that in their story lol |
| Thinking..... |
| I think most ppl would agree it's just being generic, but idgaf lol |
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KaoruMatsuoka said: -Plot holes -Characters acting irrationally stupid -Unlikeable heroes -A story taking itself way more seriously than it should (ex. most magic school harems) -Lack of characterization -Lack of character development -Trying too hard for shock value (OW THE EDGE, aka killing characters off, most uses of rape, etc.) -Melodrama -Pacing issues Clunky dialogue, or dialogue that's constantly getting repeated. |
Mamster-P said: Oh yeah, forgot lack of innovation (outright copying another show or doing whatever genre's popular at the time).I think most ppl would agree it's just being generic, but idgaf lol Milennin said: That would count too.KaoruMatsuoka said: -Plot holes -Characters acting irrationally stupid -Unlikeable heroes -A story taking itself way more seriously than it should (ex. most magic school harems) -Lack of characterization -Lack of character development -Trying too hard for shock value (OW THE EDGE, aka killing characters off, most uses of rape, etc.) -Melodrama -Pacing issues Clunky dialogue, or dialogue that's constantly getting repeated. |
One of the worst offenses that still plagues series to date. |
| How could I forget Mary Sue and Gary Stu? |
KaoruMatsuoka said: I think to be safe you should just list everything in existence thats a problem.How could I forget Mary Sue and Gary Stu? |
| Poor writing... Example - DanMachi. I dont if the source was weak or the adaption, i didnt give a sht about Bell-kun even after 7 episodes. I guess thats bad writing. Thats how i see it atleast |
| [quote=KaoruMatsuoka message=45286191] Mamster-P said: Oh yeah, forgot lack of innovation (outright copying another show or doing whatever genre's popular at the time). The thing tho is its kinda impossible do something that hasnt been done in some form. And generic is what mostly sells overall, jumping on the train is just a natural human reaction |
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| I guess OP's question must be answered by now. MAL think about bad writing when they are too lazy to track the real issue of an anime, or simply because their definition of good writing is not consistent with the author's intentions. I swear, if people would take the time to ask themselves what the author was trying to do when he decided to make what MAL call a bad writing factor, then a lot of show wouldn't be as misunderstood as they are right now. EDIT: fixed spelling |
KryzakamiHrybamiMar 23, 2016 11:39 AM
| Bad writing is generally a nebulous term, but I think it more or less refers to the general way in which the story is told and the characters are developed. If we were talking about novels, I would assume some element of the technical merits of the prose or poetry itself would be evaluated, but overall, I think most people simply refer to bad writing as narrative or character flaws that they find when they watch an anime. I believe as a whole, many people are incapable of stamping out bad writing when they see it, and I think in general most people have the tendency to exaggerate some flaws or mistakes that are rather common in storytelling to damn certain writers for no good reason, but that is the general principle. I, myself, dislike using the term, because I would rather be more specific with how I critique. |
| Whatever I don't like is bad writing. |
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| option a: writing i don't like option b: variations on what can be found here http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadWritingIndex |
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| Just read Fairy Tail, your answer awaits |
| Everything that madhouse butchers............ |
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| That dependss on what my opinion is. |
 .. |
KaoruMatsuoka said: Hmmm, it's such a blanket term that it would take a long time to describe. Basically, poor writing can be many things, not limited to: -Plot holes -Characters acting irrationally stupid Are humans 100% logical? -Unlikeable heroes Why does a hero have to be likable to be good? -A story taking itself way more seriously than it should (ex. most magic school harems) -Lack of characterization -Lack of character development Why does the character need to develop? It depends on the structure of the narrative -Trying too hard for shock value (OW THE EDGE, aka killing characters off, most uses of rape, etc.) [b]Sounds like you are minimizing these traits by arbitraily making them "shock value." -Melodrama Melodrama isn't inherently bad. Shakespeare is melodramatic. Is he bad? -Pacing issues If anyone thinks of some more, feel free to add. Honestly, this is a terrible list and demonstrates a problem that most anime watchers have. |
PoeticJustice said: *ahem* Poor writing=subjective. Note that I said "can be", not "is". Whether something is poorly written depends on the viewer. I'm just stating my opinion, which is the point of this thread.KaoruMatsuoka said: Hmmm, it's such a blanket term that it would take a long time to describe. Basically, poor writing can be many things, not limited to: -Plot holes -Characters acting irrationally stupid Are humans 100% logical? -Unlikeable heroes Why does a hero have to be likable to be good? -A story taking itself way more seriously than it should (ex. most magic school harems) -Lack of characterization -Lack of character development Why does the character need to develop? It depends on the structure of the narrative -Trying too hard for shock value (OW THE EDGE, aka killing characters off, most uses of rape, etc.) [b]Sounds like you are minimizing these traits by arbitraily making them "shock value." -Melodrama Melodrama isn't inherently bad. Shakespeare is melodramatic. Is he bad? -Pacing issues If anyone thinks of some more, feel free to add. Honestly, this is a terrible list and demonstrates a problem that most anime watchers have. |
KaoruMatsuoka said: *ahem* Poor writing=subjective. Note that I said "can be", not "is". Whether something is poorly written depends on the viewer. I'm just stating my opinion, which is the point of this thread. Do you mind if I ask what makes those things bad to you? |
PoeticJustice said: Yeah, I like things to follow a logical pattern. The story should flow correctly, characters should behave realistically, and there should be reasons to care about those characters. A lot, like the melodrama and shock value are just due to my personality and the fact that I like narrative subtlety, but the others are due to my autism mindset.KaoruMatsuoka said: *ahem* Poor writing=subjective. Note that I said "can be", not "is". Whether something is poorly written depends on the viewer. I'm just stating my opinion, which is the point of this thread. Do you mind if I ask what makes those things bad to you? |
KaoruMatsuoka said: Yeah, I like things to follow a logical pattern. The story should flow correctly, characters should behave realistically, and there should be reasons to care about those characters. A lot, like the melodrama and shock value are just due to my personality and the fact that I like narrative subtlety, but the others are due to my autism mindset. Can't stupidity be realistic in certain instances? Nobody is 100% rational. I understand the other stuff. |
| This is a bit hard to speak on without giving examples, but I'll try to do so as my intent isn't to call out specific fan bases here. If anime are made with specific purposes and intents in accordance to their creators, their success should be defined by how well they live up to the goals set by themselves. While I may dislike the way an anime is written in terms of included content, portrayal of characters or the the way the plot develops, I can't call the writing bad until it goes directly against what the anime is trying to do. This could be through nonfunctional transitions between plot points, juxtaposed whiplashing tones that disrupt the flow of the narrative, or attempting to cram too many plot points together in a short amount of time. |
PoeticJustice said: I mean, yeah, if the person is in shock or has been mentally broken, in a tense situation, or other things, they get leeway to make irrational decisions.KaoruMatsuoka said: Yeah, I like things to follow a logical pattern. The story should flow correctly, characters should behave realistically, and there should be reasons to care about those characters. A lot, like the melodrama and shock value are just due to my personality and the fact that I like narrative subtlety, but the others are due to my autism mindset. Can't stupidity be realistic in certain instances? Nobody is 100% rational. I understand the other stuff. However, if the stupidity CAUSES one of the above instances, that's not a good choice. |
KaoruMatsuoka said: I agree except for the unlikable heroes, you liking the hero has nothing to do with it being well written or not, a lot of people don't like Shinji from NGE and I think he's one of the best characters in anime.Hmmm, it's such a blanket term that it would take a long time to describe. Basically, poor writing can be many things, not limited to: -Plot holes -Characters acting irrationally stupid -Unlikeable heroes -A story taking itself way more seriously than it should (ex. most magic school harems) -Lack of characterization -Lack of character development -Trying too hard for shock value (OW THE EDGE, aka killing characters off, most uses of rape, etc.) -Melodrama -Pacing issues If anyone thinks of some more, feel free to add. |
 |
| Spending a minute standing in front of an enemy in an artificially-spacious battle arena while the good guys whisper about all the specific powers and skills of the opponent and how awesome he is. Then the villain and hero duel by jumping all over the fucking place in physical feats no human could possibly produce, all the while ham-fistedly commenting on each other's attacks and skills rather than just fucking fighting. The scene ends with no one having accomplished anything and the bad guy gets away. It's like a video game boss battle, except all the boss's attacks, stats and special moves are explicitly stated and commented on with dialogue. |
| Anyone who doesn't hate anime hasn't watched enough anime. - Anonymous |
KaoruMatsuoka said: I agree with all those points of you. Though the thing about characters acting irrationally or stupid really depends of how the psychology of the character is. Like if a character is supossed to be an inteligent genius and acts like a fool in some instance who contradict his/her character, that would be bad writing. If the one who cimmit the stupid decission is a hot blooded, unexperienced fool (like Eren Jaeger) then it has sense imo.Hmmm, it's such a blanket term that it would take a long time to describe. Basically, poor writing can be many things, not limited to: -Plot holes -Characters acting irrationally stupid -A story taking itself way more seriously than it should (ex. most magic school harems) -Lack of characterization -Pacing issues |
 |
Shocked said: This is a bit hard to speak on without giving examples, but I'll try to do so as my intent isn't to call out specific fan bases here. If anime are made with specific purposes and intents in accordance to their creators, their success should be defined by how well they live up to the goals set by themselves. While I may dislike the way an anime is written in terms of included content, portrayal of characters or the the way the plot develops, I can't call the writing bad until it goes directly against what the anime is trying to do. This could be through nonfunctional transitions between plot points, juxtaposed whiplashing tones that disrupt the flow of the narrative, or attempting to cram too many plot points together in a short amount of time. Although this is vague (which can't be helped), this is basically what poor writing is; when writers go against their own aims without a plausible reason. |
this is a bad writing.. bad writing is anything written badly.. |
| If there's a thing about the plot, characterisation, character motivations etc. that you thought was unjustified, poorly explained or unclear, those may be examples of bad writing. On the other hand they may not be. There are other things you may also think are bad writing, or not. It's a pretty wooly term, especially when its used with no context. If you feel you can justify something being good or bad writing to yourself then you can be happy enough with that. Everyone will have their own criteria and standards. |
| -Plot holes -Characters acting irrationally and making nonsensical decisions -Lack of basic characterization -Pacing issues -Romantic couples with zero chemistry -Filler -Recap Episodes -Badly written Dialog that isn't constructive like characters screaming each other's names -Unfinished story or open endings -Having too many characters and under-utilizing them -Unnecessary or excessive amount of character death |
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
| Basically, a story that is badly written has a lot of inconsistencies in a literary sense. |
| Bad writing is most evident when a show is popular and I want to show my taste is superior to someone else. For example, I know SAO has bad writing even though I haven't watched it. |
 |
johnyjohny said: Which is a pretty bad mentality where the central idea of Conceptual """"""art"""""" revolves from. "The Beauty is on the eye of the beholder" mindset is so abused that even a 210 pound rock can be considered as art. This is why people set standards to what beauty is, not on what you think it is.That dependss on what my opinion is. |
| Twitter and it's consequences had been a disaster for the human race |
AIDSKrillex said: johnyjohny said: Which is a pretty bad mentality where the central idea of Conceptual """"""art"""""" revolves from. "The Beauty is on the eye of the beholder" mindset is so abused that even a 210 pound rock can be considered as art. This is why people set standards to what beauty is, not on what you think it is.That dependss on what my opinion is. But when the population actually decides what beauty is through mass appreciation, elitists step in and try to tell them that they are wrong. |
|
FloatingIdiot said: because they know what the standards of beauty is. And the majority of the people in this godawful fanbase are ConceptualistsAIDSKrillex said: Which is a pretty bad mentality where the central idea of Conceptual """"""art"""""" revolves from. "The Beauty is on the eye of the beholder" mindset is so abused that even a 210 pound rock can be considered as art. This is why people set standards to what beauty is, not on what you think it is. But when the population actually decides what beauty is through mass appreciation, elitists step in and try to tell them that they are wrong. |
| Twitter and it's consequences had been a disaster for the human race |
AIDSKrillex said: FloatingIdiot said: because they know what the standards of beauty is. And the majority of the people in this godawful fanbase are ConceptualistsBut when the population actually decides what beauty is through mass appreciation, elitists step in and try to tell them that they are wrong. Who/what is the ultimate authority on standards of beauty, and why does this entity deserve to be looked at as an authority? |
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| Most reasons someone claims something as bad writing are subjective, so it really depends on your own personal preference. |
My Queens  |
FloatingIdiot said: simple, an elite minority always do that. Just look at the history of art and you can see who the heck is forming our perceptions of beauty. Even conceptual art itself is popularized by elites as well. So, basically, both sides (casual and """"elitists"""") have their own group of elites which mandates their perception of beauty. Conceptual art btw is formed because of some """""inept""""" artists revolting to a certain group of elites which values discipline and rules in art which was the establishment of art at that time. I prefer to side with the disciplined in art than the squibbly lines of fighting scenes AIDSKrillex said: because they know what the standards of beauty is. And the majority of the people in this godawful fanbase are Conceptualists Who/what is the ultimate authority on standards of beauty, and why does this entity deserve to be looked at as an authority? |
| Twitter and it's consequences had been a disaster for the human race |
AIDSKrillex said: FloatingIdiot said: simple, an elite minority always do that. Just look at the history of art and you can see who the heck is forming our perceptions of beauty. Even conceptual art itself is popularized by elites as well. So, basically, both sides (casual and """"elitists"""") have their own group of elites which mandates their perception of beauty. Conceptual art btw is formed because of some """""inept""""" artists revolting to a certain group of elites which values discipline and rules in art which was the establishment of art at that timeWho/what is the ultimate authority on standards of beauty, and why does this entity deserve to be looked at as an authority? Those people aren't forming our perception. Our perception is part of our consciousness. The people are simply spokesmen who gain various levels of trust of communities, mainly through producing writing that agrees with the collective's attitude, which itself is shaped through a combination of first person experiences and social effects. |
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| Anything that defies the logic or is inconsistent to the set of rules (of it's universe) set up by the show at the beginning. Anything that sends messages/invokes emotions that weren't meant to be can be considered poor writing.. |
| I hate it when writers have no idea how to end their own story, like they had no idea for it from the start. |
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