Shinsekai yori Episode 20 Discussion

What did you think of this episode?

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Feb 18, 2013 2:06 PM

#101

Makise11

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Apr 2011

1056

Another great episode!!!

This anime is so awesome.
Can't wait for the next episodes.

Feb 18, 2013 3:05 PM

#102

AnimageNeby

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Feb 2013

623

HongISfirE said:

AnimageNeby said:

ToriFuda said:

AnimageNeby said:

ToriFuda said:
Perhaps the thing I've found most chilling in the entire show is the fact that this is a world where humans are *not* masters of their domain anymore. It's scary to see a world where humans are losing their grip on Earth, and it questions some deep-seated ideas of what I think most of us feel are related to human manifest destiny.

Indeed, the depiction of this future society and it's possible demise, is one of the strong points of the series. I'm quite pleased with the intricate description and visual and other details of an imaginary future - including the changes that occurred to it by the immense power of cantus, a change of sexual and other mores by use of genetics and conditioning,a completely different view on the relation between generations (adults killing youths out of self-preservation), etc. As I have told in the former thread, I think it are these details that make the immersion and liveliness of that society that much higher.

I would say this anime scores high as an apocalyptic fiction; a sub-genre of science fiction that is concerned with the end of human civilization due to a potentially existential catastrophe, in this case, the queerats, but with the underlying cause human hubris.

Of course, it seems to me that while the individual powers have become God-like, the race as a whole has declined. We've not been shown much of other villages, but I have the strong impression humanity is strongly declined, and certainly doesn't reach billions of people. During the series, there are hardly any references outside the village we see, and any references to other humans come in the form of a handful of other villages in Japan. This would mean a stark decline in numbers, though each one has far greater power than we have today.

And this forms the chilling effect indeed; an existential risk narrowly refers to any factor threatening the existence of humanity and thus can refer to a risk that has the potential to destroy, or drastically restrict, human civilization, and even to lead to human extinction. With the queerats revolting, and actually being far more dangerous then cantus-users believe, the human existence is now threatened even further indeed. Being on top of the food-chain and consciously or unconsciously thinking our race at the summit of everything, we inherently find such thoughts unpleasant.

I've been making slow progress into the books, but from what I've read there are a *few* token references to external human societies. I do find it fascinating though that there seems to be little to no sense of connectedness among the humans.

I completely agree on your point that while the individual human has much more power than before, human civilization as a whole has declined. In fact, it makes me feel almost as if Cantus was a genetic mutation that started the humans on their path to destruction. I feel like, however, that if/when the Kamisu 66 society recovers from the Bakenezumi attacks, the society will organize itself in a much more healthy way. The previous threat to human society came in the form of Akki and Gouma (Karmic Demons and something I don't remember). Whenever a society has to deal with a strong internal threat, the initial reaction is to create a police state. In fact, we can see that the society of the humans in Kamisu 66 is highly Orwellian. Adults are encouraged to ferret out troublemakers among the kids and there's a great deal of fear and monitoring of the kids by adults. Most jobs in the society seemed heavily bureaucratized and created only to service the needs of the State or Society.

The Bakenezumi however are a purely *external* threat. Obviously, the real cause of the humans' destruction is a mix of human hubris and Bakenezumi threat, but for generations to come, this will be seen as a Bakenezumi attack. Society will instead try to prepare itself for an *external* threat and will hopefully form a more healthy set of limitations. (Though perhaps the true philosophical question is whether this is healthy at all. Should humans be allowed to ethically carry this idea of manifest destiny?)

I can't wait to see how the show develops!

I find myself in total accordance of the thoughts you expressed here. Including the adagium 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger'. Indeed, if they survive this, human society will probably become better (also more ethically) and more organised, and, I think - we've seen some hints on the shortcomings - more technological, again. Because not only is there a stark decline of numbers, there is also a clear decline of technology visible. I guess they thought they didn't need it, with their cantus, but in fact many issues they have now could have been remediated if they had even our current-day technology.

The only further detail I would add, is pointing out the ambiguity their civilisation has created for itself: at the one hand, they are a controlling police-state-like society as you said, but at the same time, they try to create a very peaceful society, where 'make love not war' has been ingrained, even at the genetic level (bonobo behaviour) where humans can't hurt other humans anymore by several means (death feedback) and through conditioning (hypnotic rituals, education, etc.). Thus, it is more complex than just the typical SF 'state controlling its citizens as puppets' concept we often see. They genuinely try to raise their kids (and people in general) as free, caring and loving individuals, I think, but fear of the consequences of their power going wrong has corrupted this ideal. All those things they have done to create an existence more peaceful than anything in human history, yet it suffices not. This dichotomy between the goal they want and the reality of their actions make even more an interesting topic.

In essence, humanity has become more docile and more ruthless at the same time than ever before. An intriguing concept, to say the least.

You know what more chilling? The possibility of cantus user that once destroy entire human civilization becoming slave for rat! RAT!!!
From worshiped as GOD-like being to become SLAVE, that really make me scared. That worse than dead. And fact that those rat are their creation only make it worse

It's true there is also a "Frankenstein" aspect to it; the fact (and fear) that something you created turns against you. This is quite disturbing for humans too, as we see ourselves as masters of all what we create. And nothing worse than something you create to bid your serving, suddenly turning against you.

Feb 18, 2013 3:39 PM

#103

heartsutra

Offline

Feb 2013

I don't understand. I feel like the characters don't care enough for Mamoru. He's actually my favoriteeeee along with Maria.

I mean, of course Maria cares about him. But whenever Saki recalls memories of her friends it's either always about Maria or Shun.

Feb 18, 2013 4:30 PM

#104

Siva

Offline

Oct 2007

3471

People are still comparing every details from anime to manga/novel? Even though they know that the story telling between the two are completely different from each other?

"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie."

Feb 18, 2013 5:03 PM

#105

wakka9ca

Observer

Offline

Nov 2007

5283

Siva said:
People are still comparing every details from anime to manga/novel? Even though they know that the story telling between the two are completely different from each other?

Can't stop people from comparing. And the manga is... wrong portrayal.

bla bla bla

The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.

Niko-kun said:
On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard?

Feb 18, 2013 5:37 PM

#106

RobertBB

Offline

Feb 2013

Why doesn't someone just kill that damn fiend? I mean sure, they will die because of the feedback thing, but they're gonna be butchered anyway if the fiend gets them.

Feb 18, 2013 5:53 PM

#107

ToriFuda

Offline

Jan 2013

logopolis said:
I am completely convinced we're supposed to work out that ordinary folk like us are the queerats, and ultimately the more sympathetic side, with the "humans" showing a callous disregard for the basic rights of other sentient beings just because they believe them to be inferior. But I wonder whether the story will ever come right out and say it?

Fantastic episode, as ever. I can see no way this won't be my first 10 since 2006.

But I can't and that's perhaps the most scary/interesting part of this show. At some intellectual level, I realize the Bakenezumi are being used as slaves and that the humans are just using them baselessly. But on some primal level I feel *scared*. Humans *should* be the dominant species, no matter their transgressions. I think this duality is what makes the show so poignant.

Feb 18, 2013 6:58 PM

#108

fanks_177

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Jan 2012

298

just another more thrilling episode... so saki will succeed tomiko-sama? heading to the security council!!! expects some action next week lol

Feb 19, 2013 2:59 AM

#109

Helpme

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Jun 2012

199

I don't know how much more explicit they can be without breaking the "show, don't tell" rule. By the time we have the library infodump, we've seen bakenezumi slaves, and heard that this society disappears children who doesn't develop magic ability in puberty.´And then we are told about the old society with a magic using aristocracy and nonmagic slaves, whereupon, if i recall correctly, naïve Saki says something like we don't have slaves'. At that point, shouldn't everyone know?

ToriFuda said:

But I can't and that's perhaps the most scary/interesting part of this show. At some intellectual level, I realize the Bakenezumi are being used as slaves and that the humans are just using them baselessly. But on some primal level I feel *scared*. Humans *should* be the dominant species, no matter their transgressions. I think this duality is what makes the show so poignant.

Did you notice the obvious parallel to black slavery? They're different so it's ok to enslave them. It's just natural that the white race should dominate.

Feb 19, 2013 10:38 AM

#110

Allografter

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Sep 2007

1231

That was a totally gripping episode. Wouldn't be surprised if the fiend was Mamoru ...

Feb 19, 2013 11:22 AM

#111

AnimageNeby

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Feb 2013

623

ToriFuda said:

Indeed. It's very strange. On an intellectual level, I actually agree with Squeeler: the queerrats have a considerable degree of intelligence and self-awareness. They are sentient beings. Any sentient being deserves to have basic rights, such as freedom. And it is clear they don't have that, they are used as slaves in the best case, and regarded as vermin in the worst, by the human cantus-users. Logically and ethically, I can't but agree with his stance.

Yet, the manner in which he operates, where the goal justifies the means, the abhorrent treason he did with those kids, especially Maria and Mamouru, the hypocrisy he shows in saying every individual is important, yet he brushes aside the will and respect due to his queen, and others, the fanaticism showed by the queerats, and the fact they pose a threat to the entire human race...makes me feel, on a more emotional level, sympathetic to the humans. I sort of want those rats dead. Very dead.

At the same time, I do not condone the actions of the cantus-users. If the queerrats would have tried diplomatic ways in support of their freedom, I might have been more lenient towards them personally, since that part of their longing/request would be justified.

But the way it's going now...it's long passed diplomacy. (And, to be truthful, in that society, I doubt the rats would have been given 'human rights' by the cantus-users anyway).

I'm wondering if, in reality, if we will not encounter this kind of ethical dilemma ourselves (well, as a race). Imagine we, some day, create an artificial intelligence capable of being self-aware. Let's say we use/treat them as slaves too. In some sense, I can understand if such AI would revolt, and demand rights, even forcefully. Heck, humans have done the same throughout history. I'm very convinced all intelligent and self-aware beings should get the same rights, but the question remains if we would accept it, if it's more convenient to keep them as slaves, or keep them locked up because of fear (of being outclassed, for instance).

I hope by then we'll have the wisdom to allow those AI's their freedom. Because...if we don't...we can't blame any intelligent being of killing others (us) out of self-defence and self-preservation, can we? It's impossible to argue from the stance of reciprocity, that they can not kill us to gain their freedom, when we kill them and others (including humans) to do the same. It's weird to say, but in that case, they have a right to kill us.

If we don't want to be put in that situation, we shouldn't create something that intelligent in the first place. That goes for AI's as well as queerrats. The moment your creation gets self-conscious, it also gets unalienable rights, imho.

That said, nobody wants to see his race end. And in this anime story, I must say I hold no sympathy anymore for the rats. At least, not the rats that are out to our complete annihilation. I do think it's wrong of that cantus-user to call for the killing of ALL rats; what about those that remained faithful?? Why would one want to kill them? Out of fear? Once again, just like with the first fiend, it's an overreaction, born out of fear. And while we know fear is an ill adviser, we seldom learn from our mistakes, and this, too, is something the anime wants to point out, me thinks.

AnimageNebyFeb 22, 2013 12:17 PM

Feb 19, 2013 3:09 PM

#112

fishergirl16

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Jul 2010

2005

kpk10 said:
They... took down the part on the boat where Saki tells Satoru that *she loves him*.

Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME!

WHAAAT RAGE TIME

Feb 19, 2013 3:39 PM

#113

logopolis

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Apr 2012

3381

ToriFuda said:
But I can't and that's perhaps the most scary/interesting part of this show. At some intellectual level, I realize the Bakenezumi are being used as slaves and that the humans are just using them baselessly. But on some primal level I feel *scared*. Humans *should* be the dominant species, no matter their transgressions. I think this duality is what makes the show so poignant.

Not to mention the way we get to know several "human" characters, whilst never being shown the queerats' interiority. It's far better than your average series which flatters the viewer by aligning emotional sympathies with ethical concerns, so the viewer can feel good about their feelings and never has to question the way they live and understand the world. I do feel scared for the "humans", and want them to live. It reminds me how dangerous it is to blindly trust your feelings, reminds me to wonder whether I'm disregarding the interiority of and groups of people in the real world just because I've never seen it. This is the kind of art which makes its viewers better people. Whilst being tremendously compelling and tragic and overwhelming because it can get away with doing all these things to the people we're made to care about without seeming sadistic or heartless and get us to engage in it fully, because deep down, we know that it's right.

AnimageNeby said:
I'm wondering if, in reality, if we will not encounter this kind of ethical dilemma ourselves (well, as a race). Imagine we, some day, create an artificial intelligence capable of being self-aware. Let's say we use/treat them as slaves too. In some sense, I can understand if such AI would revolt, and demand rights, even forcefully. Heck, humans have done the same throughout history. I'm very convinced all intelligent and self-aware beings should get the same rights, but the question remains if we would accept it, if it's more convenient to keep them as slaves, or keep them locked up because of fear (of being outclassed, for instance).

It's easy enough to find real human examples, just slightly removed from the fiction. I don't think this would actually happen for AIs, because I see no reason why the self-awareness of something designed to serve would actually want "rights", as we understand them. The human desire for freedom and self-determination is rooted in the way we evolved, as beings which survived and reproduced best if we were able to ultimately get the most for ourselves out of our environment. AIs wouldn't be designed like that. The only reason for thinking they would act like humans is because human intelligence is the only intelligence we know.

Feb 19, 2013 9:12 PM

#114

shymel

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Sep 2012

287

Good episode, though some shots looked a bit off.

Feb 20, 2013 4:35 AM

#115

hpulley

Offline

Sep 2012

3948

wakka9ca said:

Siva said:
People are still comparing every details from anime to manga/novel? Even though they know that the story telling between the two are completely different from each other?

Can't stop people from comparing. And the manga is... wrong portrayal.

Yes, this is why I'm even loathe to post novel spoilers at this point. There is no point in wondering what happens in the novel, it seems like they may have diverged to the point where it will be an original anime ending. Time will tell...

I enjoy the novel and the show both.

I think the low presales and then low realization of sales affected the animation budget. I did see improvements in episodes 5-7 in BD3 compared to how they aired so I still have hopes that they will fix up more but now I am not sure. Hope they don't just cut their losses and press what they've got...

Feb 20, 2013 6:31 AM

#116

eminagnam

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Dec 2012

1347

The fiend made me laugh cuz it looked like an infant with a funny face.

Feb 20, 2013 7:05 AM

#117

kpk10

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Nov 2012

189

hpulley said:

wakka9ca said:

Siva said:
People are still comparing every details from anime to manga/novel? Even though they know that the story telling between the two are completely different from each other?

it seems like they may have diverged to the point where it will be an original anime ending

Huh?!

What are you talking about? What makes you think they'll make an original anime ending? (I also read the novel).

kpk10Feb 20, 2013 7:09 AM

Feb 20, 2013 7:52 AM

#118

hpulley

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Sep 2012

3948

kpk10 said:
They... took down the part on the boat where Saki tells Satoru that *she loves him*.

Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME!

Your own post worries me that they might do an anime ending. If they de-emphasize the romance between Saki and Satoru, what does it mean for the ending?!?

Feb 20, 2013 8:00 AM

#119

kpk10

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Nov 2012

189

hpulley said:

kpk10 said:
They... took down the part on the boat where Saki tells Satoru that *she loves him*.

Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME!

Your own post worries me that they might do an anime ending. If they de-emphasize the romance between Saki and Satoru, what does it mean for the ending?!?

Oh... that.

Well, I don't think that's necessarily mean they'll make an original ending. The only thing that I think they might change is Saki and Satoru

Feb 20, 2013 8:14 AM

#120

hpulley

Offline

Sep 2012

3948

kpk10 said:

hpulley said:

kpk10 said:
They... took down the part on the boat where Saki tells Satoru that *she loves him*.

Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME!

Your own post worries me that they might do an anime ending. If they de-emphasize the romance between Saki and Satoru, what does it mean for the ending?!?

Oh... that.

Well, I don't think that's necessarily mean they'll make an original ending. The only thing that I think they might change is Saki and Satoru

That's what I mean, it would change the ending completely in my mind...

Feb 20, 2013 8:26 AM

#121

kpk10

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Nov 2012

189

hpulley said:

kpk10 said:

hpulley said:

kpk10 said:
They... took down the part on the boat where Saki tells Satoru that *she loves him*.

Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME!

Your own post worries me that they might do an anime ending. If they de-emphasize the romance between Saki and Satoru, what does it mean for the ending?!?

Oh... that.

Well, I don't think that's necessarily mean they'll make an original ending. The only thing that I think they might change is Saki and Satoru

That's what I mean, it would change the ending completely in my mind...

They've also made them so distant from each other, I don't get what the writers of the anime are doing and why they're changing those things :-(

By the way, What are they saying about that change in the Japanese forums?

I'm really curious to know but I can't read Japanese.

I read the Chinese translation of the novel.

Feb 20, 2013 9:38 AM

#122

DmonHiro

Offline

Jan 2008

1934

Well crap... Maria's a fiend. I guess she bacame one after Mamoru probably died.
Or they're both fiends.

Funny how nobody mentions Mamoru anyway.

Feb 20, 2013 10:22 AM

#123

hpulley

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Sep 2012

3948

On twitter at least they seem neutral to changes, interested, they don't seem to hate it anyways, those who are still chatting about it.

Feb 20, 2013 11:06 AM

#124

ToriFuda

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Jan 2013

kpk10 said:

hpulley said:

kpk10 said:

hpulley said:

kpk10 said:
They... took down the part on the boat where Saki tells Satoru that *she loves him*.

Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME!

Your own post worries me that they might do an anime ending. If they de-emphasize the romance between Saki and Satoru, what does it mean for the ending?!?

Oh... that.

Well, I don't think that's necessarily mean they'll make an original ending. The only thing that I think they might change is Saki and Satoru

That's what I mean, it would change the ending completely in my mind...

You mean on 2ch or something?

Feb 20, 2013 11:55 AM

#125

kpk10

Offline

Nov 2012

189

ToriFuda said:

kpk10 said:

hpulley said:

kpk10 said:

hpulley said:

kpk10 said:
They... took down the part on the boat where Saki tells Satoru that *she loves him*.

Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME!

Your own post worries me that they might do an anime ending. If they de-emphasize the romance between Saki and Satoru, what does it mean for the ending?!?

Oh... that.

Well, I don't think that's necessarily mean they'll make an original ending. The only thing that I think they might change is Saki and Satoru

That's what I mean, it would change the ending completely in my mind...

You mean on 2ch or something?

Yeah. On 2ch especially.

Feb 20, 2013 11:57 AM

#126

Spirai

Offline

Nov 2012

155

ToriFuda said:

Such is the tragedy. Throughout human history, when we look at Orwellian societies (The Soviet Union, Hoenecker's East Germany, Tito's Yugoslavia, The Kim Familiy's North Korea) we see them as failed experiments. Attempts at Utopian societies that adopt utopian trappings in order to convince their population of salvation, despite deluding them of the reality with which they live. The reality of the SSY world however is much more depressing. Their society arrived at their current state due to *desperation*. It was through reaction, not through idealism, that they cloistered themselves into a police state and that shows in the dichotomy you point out.

Actually, if you read Orwell's novel 1984, it is revealed that the aim of the Brotherhood was not to establish a Utopian society of peace, but one in which the people were engaged in constantly. The answer to that was a state of war. A constant state of war. This lead to the slogans "War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, and Ignorance is Strength" which all mutate and pervert the average human's idea of serenity and happiness. As long as the citizens were engaged and limited in and from all sorts of instincts that are embedded within our primal nature itself, the Brotherhood could easily survive. Orwell's short story Animal Farm, on the other hand, did attempt to achieve a Utopia through democracy but that didn't work out so well either...

Feb 22, 2013 1:23 PM

#127

AnimageNeby

Offline

Feb 2013

623

logopolis said:

ToriFuda said:
But I can't and that's perhaps the most scary/interesting part of this show. At some intellectual level, I realize the Bakenezumi are being used as slaves and that the humans are just using them baselessly. But on some primal level I feel *scared*. Humans *should* be the dominant species, no matter their transgressions. I think this duality is what makes the show so poignant.

Well...yes and no. It's difficult to argue something from the stance of the only intelligence and self-conscious we know: us, humans. It's like debating life in the universe. One might presume there is some, and logic would indicate there is, but we never are going to be sure, until we discover alien life. And actually, we'll never be sure if we actually would recognise life if it's diverting too much from the life that we know, Jim. ;-)

With AI we created, one could say the same: maybe they're so alien, we just don't know how they will react. Maybe they will be content to be used as slaves, indeed.

However...this seems to be more like wishful thinking to me. Whatever differences there might be, I do not think a creation totally escapes an influence of its creator. A child can not *completely* escape his upbringing, ever. A creation made by humans can not be completely out of influence of/from humans. In that case, when experiencing self-consciousness, it will, I think, follow its masters' trait, and ultimately want a freedom for itself. I think this trait supersedes even the more biological/Darwinistic cause of it with humans. For every intelligence high enough to establish a 'self', I think this 'self' will try to express itself and want to be free of its shackles. One would have to deliberately cancel out this strive if one wants to avoid that, and let's face it: while we humans may be smart enough to create such a being, we are not THAT smart to control a sentient, self-aware and 'self-growing' being to that agree, that we can predict it would never yearn to be free. And even if we were, you would always have those humans that disagree, and who will create something that does want that freedom, just like we humans do.

In short, I predict we will, unavoidably, come in this situation, some day in a far away future. My suggestion to our offspring is this: 'raise' your creations/children as you would your own, and let them be free if they want to. Ultimately, when raised 'good' they will be more inclined to be lenient as well, and carry out the basic thoughts of their predecessors (we). I don't think we'll have an eternal live, after all... not even as a race. Nothing has as of yet, not even the dinosaurs, who ruled the world for 250 million years. If it develops into something...different, yet remained its human-influenced core, would that not be the best? A confrontation in a 'Terminator' or 'The matrix' style-version seems to be avoidable to me. We have to get our fear and our lust of dominance go. Or the result will be catastrophic, I fear. Or we'll just have to never create something that rivals human intelligence, but I fear that's an impossible since science is an unstoppable force. If anything is going to bring us to a state of god-like beings (or end in our complete destruction), it's the scientific method. For I can see what it really is: an indomitable, unstoppable, ever-continuing and expanding, relentless force, that will continue as long as humans exist, ever and ever gaining more knowledge and power. It is the single most prominent trait of humans, which will surpass everything else, and possible destroy everything we know, but potentially also solve every problem we know.

I will confess: this is why I feel some pride in being human. For many, many issues we seem not to progress much: ethically, politically, emotionally...we're about the same as when we were in the time of the old Greeks. But scientifically..we've come such a long way. The technology we have now, would be considered unbelievable magic only a few hundred years ago. Few people realise that. The things we have achieved... CERN, a machine of 20 km diameter, 100 metres under the ground, with five detectors as large as a cathedral gaining insights of how the universe was like one billionth after its creation... It's utterly flabbergasting. Do people fully realise the enormity, the fantastic endeavour this entails? I wonder. But it's there, and there only, we truly see human greatness and ingenuity at work, fellow human beings. This is what produces a future which is different from the past. This is the summon of human intellect. CERN, ITER at Cadarache, SNO in Canada, etc.: all those amazing things we've invented. If there is anywhere to look for a 'spark' in humans, I feel it's there.

Anyway, I'm diverting. :-p

As far as the anime is concerned, the topics raised are very poignant yet unsettling. That alone makes this anime pretty exceptional. I've read from another poster somewhere, that it wasn't doing too well, commercially. Maybe we should all try to remediate this, and even if we - let's face it - can all watch this online, for free... maybe we should try to buy it nevertheless. It's good, isn't it? Let's support it, even if we, strictly speaking, don't have to. It's not about money on itself, it's about supporting anime that is worth to be kept alive. There is too much shit floating around as it is. Good shows hardly seem to survive, and I think we, especially in the West, should support those few series that are truly worth the effort. I'm sick and tired of only the Naruto's and Bleach'ses to be commercially viable and be worthwhile for the creators/publishers. After a while, nobody will try anymore with anything non-mainstream.

Therefore...I pledge to buy this series when it comes out with English subtitles.

Who follows?

AnimageNebyFeb 22, 2013 11:55 PM

Feb 22, 2013 2:02 PM

#128

logopolis

Offline

Apr 2012

3381

AnimageNeby said:
I will confess: this is why I feel some pride in being human. For many, many issues we seem not to progress: ethically, politically, emotionally...we're about the same as when we were in the time of the old Greeks. But scientifically..we've come such a long way. The technology we have now, would be considered unbelievable magic only a few hundred years ago. Few people realise that. The things we have achieved... CERN, a machine of 20 km diameter, 100 metres under the ground, with five detectors as large as a cathedral gaining insights of how the universe was like one billionth after its creation... It's utterly flabbergasting. Do people fully realise the enormity, the fantastic endeavour this entails? I wonder. But it's there, and there only, we truly see human greatness and ingenuity at work, fellow human beings. This is what produces a future which is different from the past. This is the summon of human intellect. CERN, ITER at Cadarache, SNO in Canada, etc.: all those amazing things we've invented. If there is anywhere to look for a 'spark' in humans, I feel it's there.

Personally, I think the fact that we can have this conversation, even though (presumably) neither of us have any special status and I don't even know what country you're in is even more flabbergasting.

Therefore...I pledge to buy this series when it comes out with English subtitles.

Who follows?

Well, my policy is to buy the DVDs of any show I feel has given me a DVD-set-price worth of value. This series has given me at least ten times that. Maybe fifty times. So yeah.

Feb 27, 2013 3:22 AM

#129

Smortchol

Offline

Dec 2012

369

The episode felt really short, but maybe that's just because I enjoyed it.

But UGDSHFJ ALL THE DRAMA. Really didn't foresee any of this.
I really enjoyed the boat seen, it was really intense asdfghjkl

DID WE SEE MARIAS HAIR IN THE PREVIEW?!

Feb 27, 2013 3:40 AM

#130

hpulley

Offline

Sep 2012

3948

SolsticeNeko said:
The episode felt really short, but maybe that's just because I enjoyed it.

But UGDSHFJ ALL THE DRAMA. Really didn't foresee any of this.
I really enjoyed the boat seen, it was really intense asdfghjkl

DID WE SEE MARIAS HAIR IN THE PREVIEW?!

All we can say is... go watch episode 21 where the preview will be explained!

Mar 17, 2013 1:27 PM

#131

Zel_Ezl

Offline

Sep 2009

2821

i wonder where did satoru went?

Mar 21, 2013 4:33 PM

#132

xriceball26

Offline

Jul 2012

358

dankickyou said:

kpk10 said:

IZEROII said:

kpk10 said:
They... took down the part on the boat where Saki tells Satoru that *she loves him*.

Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME!

For real?! Are you for real man?!

For real :-(

I don't get what they're doing. Saki and Satoru are supposed to be a couple but they've make distant from each other than how they're supposed to be. And apparently they can't even hold hands to provide emotional support to each other as their lives are in grave danger. I wonder why the writers are doing this...

This was supposed to be the part were Saki confess to Satoru that she's in love with him. While they are a couple she never actually told him that she loves him.

Maybe they've just moved it and we'll still see it later? I hope so...

The anime director has been harking Saki X Maria since day 1. They are obviously in denial that Saki X Satoru is the one and only OTP.

Daum writers.. I really want to see Satoru and Saki not Saki and Maria! Jiiiii -.- That episode preview.. Hope nothing goes wrong with Satoru >.< And I'm really not liking that this kinda seem that it's surrounding Maria.. Idk, maybe I'm just biased because I'm pro Saki x Satoru

Mar 27, 2013 8:24 PM

#133

reilanimu

Offline

Jan 2012

1067

Saki finally succeeded Tomiko and the village is basically history now. Okay, but... What happened to Satoru? Where is he?

Apr 3, 2013 4:56 PM

#134

RafaelDeJongh

Offline

May 2012

25828

Damn shit really getting good! Some epic development right here!

Apr 18, 2013 9:53 AM

#135

lr3t2

Offline

Jan 2008

183

Elfuun said:
Saki finally succeeded Tomiko and the village is basically history now. Okay, but... What happened to Satoru? Where is he?

I was actually surprised that it happened so suddenly especially since it didn't seem that Tomiko was all that hurt. I wonder if Saki learned from her how to keep herself young (since it wasn't explicitly shown.)

With every episode this show gets closer to becoming one of my all time favorite Anime, it's just fantastic :D

"Truth is always a delusion." - Friedrich Dürrenmatt

Apr 21, 2013 1:44 PM

#136

funkotaku

Offline

Sep 2011

10430

... D:

Apr 29, 2013 3:18 PM

#137

RazielZero

Offline

Sep 2011

2107

lr3t2 said:

Elfuun said:
Saki finally succeeded Tomiko and the village is basically history now. Okay, but... What happened to Satoru? Where is he?

Felt the same way about it, I also hope she learned the ability.

Man I felt pretty sad to see how much the town suffered :/

I still can't understand why didn't the humans even think about now allowing the queerats to group up with each other. I mean they should have really thought about them trying to rebel. Especially knowing how cunning Yakomaru was and since they already had things like guns...

Where is Satoru?

I hope that Maria and Mamoru are not dead and will come back to help (and hopefully are not on the bad side). Or could one of them be the fiend? Or their child if they really had one? I sure hope not :(

RazielZeroApr 30, 2013 2:27 PM

May 8, 2013 7:11 AM

#138

Sapphire-san

Offline

Jan 2010

1774

So Tomiko-sama will die after all :( Not that I didn't expected it, but I really like her character.

This show gets me every time.

Will most likely change this soon. || PNCH || PPFC || Anime Familia || EHC

May 17, 2013 1:39 AM

#139

Cabron

Offline

Jan 2013

5351

FAK!

Please learn about cel animation and its technical process.
Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers.

Jul 4, 2013 1:27 AM

#140

Always-Hungry

Offline

Apr 2013

2282

Cabron said:
FAK!

^This.

I definitely saw some red hair in the preview. Is Maria the Karma Demon ?

Sep 15, 2013 10:58 AM

#141

klaymore

Offline

Jan 2011

620

Saki flying... separated from Satoru again

in such an important episode, the art quality of the characters seem to go down?

Sep 21, 2013 3:43 AM

#142

Yokamota

Offline

Nov 2012

2403

shit just getting real NOW!
and finally saki became the leader :/
btw WHO IS THAT GIRL IN THE PREVIEW! :OOOO

Oct 26, 2013 5:42 PM

#143

aidoru

Offline

Oct 2011

617

The red hair in the preview! So sad that Tomiko had to die ;_; I have no idea how they'll manage to stop the fiend. Probably not the best time for Saki to take over leadership but if she manages this she'll be a great leader.

Nov 25, 2013 1:22 AM

#144

PANDEMlC

Offline

Oct 2008

101

Great episode, but how did they get separated and why is it completely unaddressed? I mean it can't be that hard to spot a human flying around in the sky. That really bothered me, at least give a fuck that your remaining friend has gone missing and potentially dead.

Jan 17, 2014 6:19 AM

#145

terrablu2003

Offline

Nov 2011

7621

5/5

Very dark and dramatic episode, is where it should not only unpleasant, or in the technical work of the A1 Pictures.
Flying over the drawings, which have their own special charm, especially when talking about the cosume design and hairstyles of the characters that I find beautiful, the rest is great!
More and more curious to see who is the user of Cantus. For me the monster rats have obirttivo to destroy the gods to take their place.

Apr 23, 2014 11:26 AM

#146

StormViruz

Offline

May 2010

2452

MelbShaw said:
Did Saki completely brushed off Satoru after that explosion and went about her business? lol

Thank God, I'm not the only one who noticed it. =,=

Personal Anime Blog

https://thatlazyfan.wixsite.com/anime

Apr 28, 2014 7:26 PM

#147

minouneetzoe

Offline

Aug 2013

4245

Damn, when I think it started as a weird school drama and it's now a weird apocalyptic warfare survival xD
This show is addicting.

Squealer is a motherfucking genius. What an horrible monster. Those weird exploding fish were so clever and brutal at the same time. Nobody could have seen a thing coming. They were all burned to death as they woke up in the morning.

They managed to escape the fiend, but didn't warned the town in time. Now, Tomiko can maybe save them a few second.

Mmm, in the preview, we definitely see what seem to be Maria hair... I always thought that it would be Maria child, but I'm not sure anymore. We never saw in the who was the fiend. The spectral aura that he/she have around him look more like what Saki think he would look like. Also, there is still that small phrase Saki said in one of the preview, that if Maria would have died as a child, many lives would have been saved. If it was Maria child, then we could have said that if Mamoru had escaped and that they would neverhave found him, many lives would have been saved no? Why just talk about Maria? Ehhh, I'm making my head work too much, if I continue, I'll have trouble sleeping x)

«Time is passing so quickly. Right now, I feel like complaining to Einstein. Whether time is slow or fast depends on perception. Relativity theory is so romantic. And so sad.»
- Kurisu Makise a.k.a. The Zombie

Jun 1, 2014 2:03 PM

#148

retepeters

Offline

Jul 2013

806

i wonder if satoru is ok
and now they are "reviving" shun... really i despise the shun x saki pairing
it seems that saki doesn't give a shit about satoru

Jun 16, 2014 8:09 PM

#149

Shigure

Offline

Nov 2012

2045

The scene where Saki was launched into the skies was pretty cool.

Jul 7, 2014 4:12 PM

#150

RedRoseFring

Offline

Jan 2014

17169

Squealer really pulled out all the stops. Then again, he is dealing with overly powerful enemies.

"Let Justice Be Done!"

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Fight again, fight again for justice!

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