JRPG baiting in anime

I imagine the rigid game rules become far less interesting to write than a traditional fantasy store.

It's simple, most isekai authors simply don't have the talent to write a story with rules and consequences. All they are capable of doing is writing a worthless power fantasy that just happens to take place in a JRPG setting and as we have seen over the years isekai fans are dumb and thirsty, they will gobble up anything that has a fantasy harem and an OP self-insert protagonist.

@AshuAmbrose As pessimistic and catastrophising as this view is, I think it may be true. I have heard that many of the LN authors are novices when they start out, to the point that they have a hard time producing a polished draft, let alone the leeway to think ahead and construct a robust magic system or similar. The stories start as hailmerrys and there is no plan for them if they get popular. Of course I am sure there are exceptions but it is my understanding that this is all too common.

those are exactly the same to me. Follows the same concept as the napanese ones.

@Anjuro There's a difference between rigid game rules and world constraints though, right? Like having the magic not be all powerful is a good thing but reducing it down to "Oh no, the wizard only has 3mp left!" or everything is just experience points must be tiring to write. At some point, it becomes a math equation instead of a story. I'm sure there's an appeal to that, mathematicians exist for a reason, but that also puts additional constraints on your story that can get in the way.

Yes, that sounds interesting. Let me know if you encounter any good stories like that, anime or otherwise.

I would guess that a vast majority of them are writers, not game designers. I'm not a game designer, but establishing, exploring, enforcing and twisting detailed game systems must be extremely hard work. So even if creators are interested and willing, executing it is a different matter. Especially when it's not even a "real" video game.

A possible solution is to use an existing JRPG system and build a story on top of that. Like Dungeons & Dragons did, for example. I don't think the public cared or even understood the actual "gameplay" of D&D until very recently, when Critical Role became popular online and even got an animated series. That Honor Among Thieves movie last year was a decent success I think, and I had a surprising amount of fun with how they played around with "the system" within the story.

The creator would have to find a good system that allows creative storytelling and is a fairly well-known brand in the JRPG space. And they'd also have to get the license figured out.

@Lucifrost I am not aware of any series that truly do fulfill these expectations, but I am aware of one real world example which is maybe vaguely related. That is Pwnie island. It is a pseudo-game where the point of the game is not to play the game, but rather to find exploits in the game code. It was originally used for a software security /hacking competition but you can still access the files and play the game if that sounds like fun to you, I want to give it a try someday as well but it is obviously a very difficult "game" to play.

Dragon Quest did that with its anime, but I do not believe a story needs to be based on a real RPG. When you think Dungeons & Dragons, you think of dragons, wizards, elves and dwarves. All public domain concepts, none invented explicitly for RPGs. If the ultimate story is indistinguishable from any other fantasy, why bother securing the rights to a specific game?

@Lucifrost I was only suggesting using an actual game to skip the "game design" part, in case that was too difficult. Maybe they can get away with lifting gameplay mechanics without getting the actual rights, but I don't know how legally sound that is in certain cases.

D&D isn't just dungeons and dragons. It's an expansive ruleset, framework and a unique gameplay format. Saying stuff like "roll 20 to evade" is strongly linked to that specific game, so they might not be able to get away with it. But then I'm not a lawyer.

I don't know if any JRPG has a similarly complex and recognizable system, though, so referencing a single specific JRPG may not even be necessary. But then we're back to square one regarding the OP.

Also, outside of gameplay systems, getting the rights to a popular game would get more interest towards the anime. Of course, it's all in the execution; I'm not sure if Dragon Quest anime was very popular, at least as popular as the video games are.

There is a big difference between stories that actually play inside a video game and those who play in a fantasy world with some RPG elements. The first ones are usually much more faithful to their original premise.

It doesn't make sense to compare something like Shangri-La Frontier to Overlord. Shangri-La Frontier is about people playing a video game. Overlord is about a game that gets fused into an actually fantasy world.


In the beginning, we're getting introduced to the various mechanics of the world and the main character usually has to rely on them to get stronger. As the story progresses, we have internalized the system and the focus now shifts to applying it in a more abstract way. I don't think that this is a bad way of telling a story.
I don't really agree with the idea that every story that has RPG elements needs to make them the main premise.

I really like this subgenre of isekai jrpg, because the fictional game system is interesting to me. But i can see what you mean, its true that the authors start leaving behind all the details about the game system as the volumes of the light novel go on.

I guess its because they feel being too detailed about the system goes against the principles of fiction writing, maybe even their editors tell them to tone it down. i feel not everybody would like that kind of detail in a novel, and if the story has potential to become popular, then that kind of stuff has to be considered in order to become more interesting for a wider audience.

Some novels have been very disappointing in that they leave behind the game system stuff, like danmachi. In the early volumes we got lots of status updates, but in the later ones they barely show any of that. but other new novels like blade and bastard is interesting because instead of filling the story with statistics, the author decided to make the game mechanics something more subtle: the characters doesn't know they are in a game (wizardry), so they just need to accept that some stuff follow an arbitrary logic (from their point of view).

Cause the demographic for both games and Powerfantasy Anime are boys.

@Merve2Love For Power fantasies maybe, but I know plenty of women who like playing all sorts of games. Also I don't know what your reasoning is here, authors don't want to explore game mechanics in their stories because both power fantasies and games are primarily for boys? That makes no sense to me.

@Anjuro

Just answering why this Genre works.

The reason why it works is that boys / male teens still make up the majority of people who consume these things. Doesn't really matter if Girls do also like playing video games.

Boys like Video Games, a lot. They're the ones that these things are made for. Same goes for a lot of Anime, still - so it makes sense that an Anime which is catering to that preference becomes popular.


IF the majority of people weren't male we would indeed see a change of this trend and a lot less Isekai/Power Fantasy Shows.

@Merve2Love But what does this have to do with my question about why game mechanics are not explored in (any?) anime?

You are saying that games are catering to males, and anime is made for males, so wouldn't there be anime being made that explore games then?

@Anjuro

There are Shows like that. You mentioned them^^
It's always easy to say that something isn't "explored" enough or not fulfilling some huge potential, but I think they're doing fine.

Also...
They don't need to be overly experimental or even fresh.
It works. These things are popular the way they are, for a reason. People love them. You might call it a regular, boring Fantasy Setting (and I think a lot of people would agree with you there) but in the end that's the stuff that's considered good by the demographic^^
-> Which are, again, young boys who don't really need that deep dive into new and fleshed out territory

All they need is: "Hey, I like games...this is a game. Cool! Look at the Animation. Man, I wish I would be trapped in the game and getting that gamer girl"
That's just it^^



Im saying -> These Shows aren't really made for you.
You want something with a bit more depth to it? Well, the Isekai Genre isn't really about that, primarily.

Please don't twist my words, some shows like HxH and Log horizon do have aspects of what I want, but in HxH it is only a very small part of the show and in Log horizon it seems like the author lost interest after season 2, but the overwhelming majority is doing the absolute bare minimum. Its really not fine, at least for my tastes. There is really not even 1 solid example that I can point to and say yes, this show delivered, and that's saying something.

Of course the shows that just casually toy with the idea of JRPG mechanics like Tate no Yuusha no nariagari are doing fine, there's no doubt. What I am asking for here is by no means necessary, its a niche thing for a niche audience, but equally there is no getting around how awkward it is to continually flirt with this idea of a JRPG world that has substance but never actually commit.


I don't really know what you mean by that. If you view anime as a product then sure, if people watch and buy product nothing else matters, but as a fan of anime what we care about is the art and the story, it matters a great deal.

At the end of the day, there are also people like me who want to see this type of story, please don't just say the equivalent of "give up and enjoy the shit everyone around you is watching". At the end of the day I don't care what the "demographic" says, if its mid its mid, end of story.

@joaquinns
This is an unpleasant thought but I guess it must also be considered, the idea that a wide audience wouldn't appreciate an exploration of complex game systems and things of this nature.

Personally I think this is probably not the main reason however. Very niche anime are made on occasion, I'm sure if the desire was there from the author such a story could be created. Equally, I think at the end of the day it would just make for a good story. Ultimately I think a story that explores the game mechanics of a JRPG has something in common with detective/mystery stories, and a lot of people love those (of course the JRPG stuff is a bit more dry, but I fully believe you could craft a compelling story with it as a foundation). Even a relatively simple system could have merit in this regard, it doesn't have to be "dwarf fortress" levels of complicated. I think the real problem is that authors do not seem to be willing to even try it out, with a few exceptions like Togashi who has explored the idea a couple of times in his works, if in a limited fashion.

You know, to me the funny thing is, I actually find that human drama is extremely cheap and overdone. I am specifically talking about series that don't have much of an identity either way, its just characters talking and sharing moments. Of course there is nothing wrong with it, in moderation its a core aspect of almost any story, but when you have a story that is just that I sincerely question its worth. I guess its a question of is an anime art or entertainment? People can be entertained by such shows, they are watchable, but only art has the power to compel us. Anyway, I think the place were art often resides is in the unknown and the uncharted, and I think a proper systems driven JRPG anime has the possibility to be rather compelling for my tastes. But Of course I am a very niche type of viewer at the end of the day so I am sure many authors will not see it the way I do.

Ok...I'm going to say this right off the top. There's a difference between being set in an rpg and being set in a fantasy world with rpg mechanics. The difference being game mechanics actually make sense in the former. Now, I bring this up, because I see mention of things that are the latter, like Shield Hero and Solo Leveling. And while I can give Solo Leveling a pass, because the title is upfront with it having some sort of leveling system...Shield Hero...Now I haven't seen past season one, but to my recollection, while the chosen heroes were gamers, I don't remember them explicitly saying they were in a virtual/game world.

Putting those aside, I'm kinda tired of seeing any amount of rpg elements in regular fantasy series. I don't care if they get pushed aside, because I'd rather they not be there to begin with. As far series that actually take place in some sort of virtual world, I haven't really seen enough to confirm if they actually tend to brush off the game elements later on.

They say the world is identical to the world of a game they've played. Naofumi is at a disadvantage because his world is the only one in which this game doesn't exist.

They say the world is identical to the world of a game they've played. Naofumi is at a disadvantage because his world is the only one in which this game doesn't exist.

it could be the strict copyright policy that's killing creativity. basically it's hard to write something original without fear of being stolen by others or that you can't build upon something that's already working cause it would count as plagiarizing. this is just my wild imagination though. maybe not worth for them to animate original concept of a complete rpg system

in presentation people always advice to keep it simple. i guess to appeal to many people you really can't come up with brain connecting moments level of intricacies i guess. even spell designs are all the same.

aren't log horizon until s2 still have raid dungeon and even city raid with cursed weapon? his mana shared skill also highlighted in that season because help a lot in the raid. same with another buff/debuff effect that reduce tetra's aurora heal cd. economy management also part of mmorpg. and some char even change shield skill in to air step, mc also explore new sub job that can revive someone based on contract or something (kinda forgot).