| Like they don't even try, they just go "Oh, by the way, these 2 are an item now!" Or there's just a crush and instead of developing it, they just suddenly get together. |
| My waifu is the most wonderful waifu. Mai Valentine. We're freaking out that we're running out of time, but to do what? Should i stop and think of that? Is there something i could do to slow it down? Live in a day for once, instead of watch it sprinting by |
| Well, it depends. Are we talking about battle shounen? Most of them fail at action, which was supposed to be their strong aspect, now just try to wonder if they would be good at something else. Now, there are some shounen anime focused on romance that are very good. |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Perhaps, this is hell. |
| If you are referring to fighting shounen, cause that not the focus, action is. I think they don't even want to include that and are forced by editors to throw some romance. Fuck romance in fighting shounen, they turn the already toxic fanbases into cavemen with their ships, waifu wars and obvious self insert fantasies. As for the genre mixed along other genres within the demographic, I don't know. |
| Most battle shounen nowadays don't even try romance. At least my favourite ones don't. Overall, talking about shounen as a group is silly because it has a lot of different types of animes. |
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| Because, unfortunately, romance in shonen is not the main theme. Shonen is usually adventures of the hero with his or her friends. |
MemoreFeb 24, 2022 9:30 PM
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| Because more often than not it's simple self-insert wish fulfillment. It seems as that teenage males interested in “romance” more often than not do not care for any plot or characterization, but mostly simply many characters in love with their self-insert. Exceptions of course do exist. Most of it has no actual planned plot or concept as much as that extensive detail is given to the character design of the love interests, and there is also no actual development since it isn't consumed for the plot, so it can be dragged on ad infinitum, which is what is very often done.  |
 Frankness be, I have this in my signature for little other reason than that I'm reading it, and that it's not in the M.A.L. database, thereby establishing proof that I liked it when it was still underground. |
| Probably since that's not the main focus of the show and usually just a side thing. And it naturally doesn't seem as good |
 ManWild |
| Shonen is intended for boys, you do know this right? |
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| You are worried about romance in cartoon |
| Cause the little boys who are the targeted audience of those shows aren’t mentally able to process complicated romantic relationships… |
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| My favorites romance shows are not from shonen so I agree. It is indeed hard to get shonen romance which is atleast not looking like a harem. But I think u are talking about battle shonen, they usually tend to have no romance or minimal romance rather than poor romance. |
  Click for a anime mashup! Still not gone bandwagon u, keep crying. Here u are welcome to CRINGE at my EXISTENCE |
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| I think, generally, men just aren't great at writing romance or are uncomfortable with it. Not always, obviously. I think the romance in Yuu Yuu Hakusho is okay, the romance between Kenshin and war gf is really good- seriously, I have no idea how there are no inclinations or even hints of the mangaka's yknow... attractions... in the manga. I think maybe a lot of men in the manga/ anime industry are lacking experience and confidence. If that's so I think it's a bit sad, escapism isn't very healthy. Another good one, I think FMAB does well, Bakuman, Beastars is shounen and it does really well- it's not battle either though and it's made by a woman. |
TeirayoFeb 24, 2022 11:13 PM
No watch list sig cuz "You watch anime in 3 days or 3 months! Such is the proper way!" |
| If you are talking about battle shounens, then yes. Their main focus is action and plot development so they sometimes dont flesh out romantic developments. (honestly I think its great that way too). If you are talking about shounen vs shoujo romance animes like Komi, Nagatoro, Haite Kudasai, takagi san etc than I actually kind of like them. Some shoujo animes can have more development but sometimes I just want cute fluffy moments with misunderstandings and heart throbbing moments, so in that sense, shounen romance are pretty great. |
If you enjoyed the time you wasted, then its not a waste of time.  |
| 1. Battle shounen - "Girls are weird and scary, let's stay away from them!". 2. Romance shounen - "Let's replace romance with absurdly over the top melodrama and the viewer wouldn't even notice that we don't know shit about romance!". 3. Shounen in general - "We don't know shit about romance, so lets make such plot developments off screen!". I mean shounen knows all too well how to ogle a girl or a boy but romantic interactions between people is a mystery for its writers. |
alshuFeb 24, 2022 11:38 PM
alshu said: In what world? Most of it is wish fulfillment comedy without any drama whatsoever.2. Romance shounen - "Let's replace romance with absurdly over the top melodrama and the viewer wouldn't even notice that we don't know shit about romance!" Not that 6 different characters for no clear reason falling in love with one self-insert is the pinnacle of romance and plot, of course, but drama it is not. |
| Frankness be, I have this in my signature for little other reason than that I'm reading it, and that it's not in the M.A.L. database, thereby establishing proof that I liked it when it was still underground. |
MileyCyrusFan997 said: In what world? This is my experience with shounen romance. MileyCyrusFan997 said: Most of it is wish fulfillment comedy without any drama whatsoever...Not that 6 different characters for no clear reason falling in love with one self-insert Wait, are you talking about harems? Those aren't even a honest attempt at romance, just a wish fulfillment(as you mentioned)/power fantasy. I don't consider those genuine romance (yes, Monogatari included). |
alshuFeb 25, 2022 12:28 AM
| Because it's catered to self insert enthusiasts who don't want to work hard but reap the benefits nevertheless |
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SageModeTice said: Shonen is intended for boys, you do know this right? this is the most "EW GIRLS ARE ICKY" middle school thing ive ever read |
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oyabuntaro said: Don't know how, I'm not even saying it with that intention, I mean that the target audience of shonen is for boys, so most authors don't put much effort into the romance side of things because boys tend to be more interested in action. I actually happen to like girls, but you can interpret my words however you want man, you do you.SageModeTice said: Shonen is intended for boys, you do know this right? this is the most "EW GIRLS ARE ICKY" middle school thing ive ever read |
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| These two don't go well together plus shonen is mostly towards young male demography and romance is fuckin dead there as dudes don't have time for thinking a beautiful relationship with a girl if they can fap to that. In seinen is pretty good as adults tend to enjoy these sort of complexities more. |
| 2025 might be the year where I will be happy. This year is not happy year. |
| Romance isn’t the main genre nor focus of most shounen series and as a result isn’t usually the author’s strongpoint when writing. Some series handle it well (imo Shaman King’s Yoh/Anna was very good) but others seem to have poor build up or seem entirely random. I’m unsure why many shounen series seem to even require the MC to get with a girl in the end. Maybe because marriage is the end of their story? Hahaha |
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| I don't think OP was referring to romance in battle shounen, but actual romance shounen anime. Or does someone think that Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso or Horimiya are any good? Even in the few exception that I like, I can't the deny that the romance is pretty poorly developed. P.S. It's not like shoujo romance is inherently better: average looking shy girl x most handsome boy of the class is still a self insert and wish fulfillment for a female audience. |
| Because who the fuck wants romance in their action manga. I dropped Seven Deadly Sins because of this nonsense, I couldn't tolerate the romantic element of that series. |
| (☞ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)☞ YouTube @ The Pirate Collector ԅ( ͒ ͒ )ᕤ |
alshu said: Well, they're more common than what you mentioned by far.MileyCyrusFan997 said: In what world? This is my experience with shounen romance. MileyCyrusFan997 said: Most of it is wish fulfillment comedy without any drama whatsoever...Not that 6 different characters for no clear reason falling in love with one self-insert Wait, are you talking about harems? Those aren't even a honest attempt at romance, just a wish fulfillment(as you mentioned)/power fantasy. I don't consider those genuine romance (yes, Monogatari included). They are generally tagged “romance” on about every website, including this one. _Maneki-Neko_ said: Which ones? Noragami or Fullmetal Alchemist for example have a great romance and so do have some others. I don't think it depends on the genre / demographics, if there is a well-written romance or not. >complaining that b.l. has too many abusive relationships >completely fine with the usual endless physical abuse of the male lead at the hands of the female lead Sasuga genderfriend, — he preaches high and mighty about morality, but only when the gender configuration suits him.  Nirinbo said: Name at least five titles that do this.P.S. It's not like shoujo romance is inherently better: average looking shy girl x most handsome boy of the class is still a self insert and wish fulfillment for a female audience. |
| Frankness be, I have this in my signature for little other reason than that I'm reading it, and that it's not in the M.A.L. database, thereby establishing proof that I liked it when it was still underground. |
MileyCyrusFan997 said: Nirinbo said: Name at least five titles that do this.P.S. It's not like shoujo romance is inherently better: average looking shy girl x most handsome boy of the class is still a self insert and wish fulfillment for a female audience. Including demigods and reverse harems, since they also contribute to the whole self insert + wish fulfillment trope: Kimi ni Todoke Kyou, Koi wo Hajimemasu Kamisama Hajimemashita Hotarubi no Mori e Otome Game no Hametsu Flag shika Nai Akuyaku Reijou ni Tensei shiteshimatta... |
| Teenage boys usually don't care much for romance. That's why. If you want romance to be focused and sweet then watch some shoujo demographic anime. |
How does one of these look much better than the other: they're perfectly looksmatched:  Kyou, Koi wo Hajimemasu How would this look plain rather than very cute?  Kamisama Hajimemashita Hotarubi no Mori e These two actually look somewhat plain, but still in a beautiful way rather than being given deliberately unattractive facial features. Otome Game no Hametsu Flag shika Nai Akuyaku Reijou ni Tensei shiteshimatta... This is plain to you again? So you know, we are comparing it with this:  Who on top of his unattractive face has no skills, nor hobbies, nor any meaningful interactions with anyone that could explain why they all fell in love with him. |
| Frankness be, I have this in my signature for little other reason than that I'm reading it, and that it's not in the M.A.L. database, thereby establishing proof that I liked it when it was still underground. |
Nirinbo said: average looking shy girl x most handsome boy of the class is still a self insert and wish fulfillment for a female audience. Nirinbo said: Including demigods and reverse harems, since they also contribute to the whole self insert + wish fulfillment trope So you immediately moved the goalpost because you realized even your previous claim was hard to prove because it isn't even remotely as common as you make it out to be, lol, good job. Shoujo romance protagonists are almost always fully realized characters with lots of unique hobbies, responsibilities, meaningful relationships with friends and family members, etc. that would all get in the way of self-inserting if that actually was the intention. Look to the average otome game protagonist or Western YA romance novels if you want to find the bland empty shell of a character that is actually used for self-insert, where this kind of thing is a lot more common. So yes. Shoujo does romance a hell of a lot better than shounen usually does (even though of course it has its own tropes and pitfalls). You have to go up to seinen to get a proper, normal romance out of media aimed at a male demographic most of the time. Some musings on demographics, in spoiler tags so the post doesn't become too long to scroll past: |
SleepySeraFeb 25, 2022 4:33 AM
_Maneki-Neko_ said: So it is completely different and rather than five characters that fall in love with a bland self-insert for no reason, we have one character fall in love with a character who is indeed cute and kind, especially when compared to the others, but simply lacks self-esteem?And so are a lot of shoujo romances. A lot of shoujo heroines are overly shy, have very low self-esteem and are bland. The majority of them are drawn with huge deer eyes that make them look actually attractive, while being the shrinking violet otherwise and completely unaware that they are looking good. Not even mentioning that most girls, who love fashion and have more self-esteem are portrayed exclusively as backstabbing bitches, because the publishers imagine that teenage girls could identify with the shoujo heroine. And some seem to do that I'm not sure why you would think this comparable. SleepySera said: Nirinbo said: average looking shy girl x most handsome boy of the class is still a self insert and wish fulfillment for a female audience. Nirinbo said: Including demigods and reverse harems, since they also contribute to the whole self insert + wish fulfillment trope So you immediately moved the goalpost because you realized even your previous claim was hard to prove because it isn't even remotely as common as you make it out to be, lol, good job. Shoujo romance protagonists are almost always fully realized characters with lots of unique hobbies, responsibilities, meaningful relationships with friends and family members, etc. that would all get in the way of self-inserting if that actually was the intention. Look to the average otome game protagonist or Western YA romance novels if you want to find the bland empty shell of a character that is actually used for self-insert, where this kind of thing is a lot more common. So yes. Shoujo does romance a hell of a lot better than shounen usually does (even though of course it has its own tropes and pitfalls). You have to go up to seinen to get a proper, normal romance out of media aimed at a male demographic most of the time. Some musings on demographics, in spoiler tags so the post doesn't become too long to scroll past: And I should add to this that even “otome” protagonists aren't quite as bland looking. Though their personality is obviously absent in that it is whatever the player makes it by the choices he selects, so there is typically a progression and reason for the characters to fall in love. In something such as, say, Eromanga Sensei, the characters simply do. It is never made pausible why they would all fall in love with this very bland protagonist whose only noteworthy ability is being a middle of the road novelists, while all of them are exceptionally skilled writers of illustrators; they simply do. I think it ultimately makes sense: even if we ignore the culturally imposed "action is for boys, love is for girls" thing, it's simply a biological fact that boys mature slower than girls in their teen years, start puberty later, and so on. The interest in girls in general and in girls as actual people and not just a walking pair of tits and ass therefore is also generally delayed. I honestly do not feel that romance targeted at older males is typically much better. When both HigeHiro and KoiKimo aired at the same time, many comparisons were drawn and yet again in the former, the protagonist had a three-man strong harem by the second episode already, which did not really serve any function for the plot apart from simply establishing a harem. KoiKimo was very different and heavily focused on the emotional situations and turmoils of the characters and the secondary characters all felt as protagonists of their own story.If you are trying to sell a piece of media to a target age group, you have to go with what they care about, it's simply unwise to put a lot of emphasis on something that isn't interesting or relateable to them. Shounen demographic starts at 10/12 years (depending on which source you go with). 10-12 y.o.s are usually not interested in girls yet. You can't market romance to the lower third of the demographic at all, the middle third is in a hormone-induced state, so even if the upper third would be interested, you are losing out on two thirds of the shounen demographic if you focus your story on a normal romance. With girls, they very much ARE interested in boys already at 10-12 y.o., puberty doesn't have quite the same level of horny effect, so regular romance is something that works for the whole shoujo demographic all the way from 10/12 to 18. If you add the whole cultural gender expectations back into the equation, that just solidifies it even more. Of course, exceptions always exist, but a publisher doesn't decide its line-up based on exceptions. Romance and human psychology is simply less often a male interest, and males that do consume romance more often seem to not do so for the plot and the psychology, but the wish fulfillment aspect, and most of it clearly targeted to lonely people. Is there a substantial amount of romance wish fulfillment for a female audience? yes, but it often feels as though romance that specifically targets a male audience only has wish fulfillment and little more. |
MileyCyrusFan997Feb 25, 2022 4:52 AM
| Frankness be, I have this in my signature for little other reason than that I'm reading it, and that it's not in the M.A.L. database, thereby establishing proof that I liked it when it was still underground. |
SleepySera said: Nirinbo said: average looking shy girl x most handsome boy of the class is still a self insert and wish fulfillment for a female audience. Nirinbo said: Including demigods and reverse harems, since they also contribute to the whole self insert + wish fulfillment trope So you immediately moved the goalpost because you realized even your previous claim was hard to prove because it isn't even remotely as common as you make it out to be, lol, good job. Even if I had listed 5 perfect examples (and I would have to read/watch dozens of average shoujo romance to do that), there's always a way to nitpick my choices (e.g. saying that the main couple in Kimi ni Todoke is evenly matched in terms of looks, ignoring that she is a loner and he is the most popular boy in her class). And besides, I didn't stray off from the main point; if anything, demigods are on a higher standing than a random handsome dude. I got it, you love shoujo and that's perfectly ok. Don't get me wrong, I agree that the very best shoujo romance >>> the very best shounen romance. |
NirinboFeb 25, 2022 5:18 AM
| Probably because its not the theme the story is going for, since most shounens are boys going on adventure and some cliché stuff. |
  Ultimate Fashionista ♡ ‧₊˚ ⋅ ౨ৎ ‧₊ .ᐟ |
Nirinbo said: You specifically included “average looking”.SleepySera said: So you immediately moved the goalpost because you realized even your previous claim was hard to prove because it isn't even remotely as common as you make it out to be, lol, good job. Even if I had listed 5 perfect examples (and I would have to read/watch dozens of average shoujo romance to do that), there's always a way to nitpick my choices (e.g. saying that the main couple in Kimi ni Todoke is evenly matched in terms of looks, ignoring that she is a loner and he is the most popular boy in her class). And besides, I didn't stray off from the main point; if anything, demigods are on a higher standing than a random handsome dude. I got it, you love shoujo and that's perfectly ok. Don't get me wrong, I agree that the very best shoujo romance >>> the very best shounen romance. It is indeed a very common trope to have an isolated, self-imposed female protagonist who often starts the story with no interest in mainstream life, but that's not what your claim was. |
| Frankness be, I have this in my signature for little other reason than that I'm reading it, and that it's not in the M.A.L. database, thereby establishing proof that I liked it when it was still underground. |
| Because, most romance aimed towards a male audience are focused on the male's perspective, which is never a good thing. :P |
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| Uhh... Your Lie in April, 5-toubun no Hanayome, Nisekoi, Dusk Maiden, etc. are good romance shounen. |
 “Once you've been loved once and have loved once, you cannot forget it.” ― Natsume Takashi |
MileyCyrusFan997 said: Nirinbo said: You specifically included “average looking”.Even if I had listed 5 perfect examples (and I would have to read/watch dozens of average shoujo romance to do that), there's always a way to nitpick my choices (e.g. saying that the main couple in Kimi ni Todoke is evenly matched in terms of looks, ignoring that she is a loner and he is the most popular boy in her class). And besides, I didn't stray off from the main point; if anything, demigods are on a higher standing than a random handsome dude. I got it, you love shoujo and that's perfectly ok. Don't get me wrong, I agree that the very best shoujo romance >>> the very best shounen romance. It is indeed a very common trope to have an isolated, self-imposed female protagonist who often starts the story with no interest in mainstream life, but that's not what your claim was. Sawako is indeed average looking (with no make up), otherwise she wouldn't be a loner, she'd have a horde of boys flocking around her. Of course, no manga author would ever draw a main character ugly on purpose. But yeah, I should have said "average girl" instead of "average looking girl". |
Natsuki_SanJuan said: All but Your Lie in April are simply bourgeois harems whose plot is little more than many falling in love with a self-insert.Uhh... Your Lie in April, 5-toubun no Hanayome, Nisekoi, Dusk Maiden, etc. are good romance shounen. Nirinbo said: In all these harem titles, they do deliberately look unattractive, in fact, very often adaptations alter their design to make them less good looking because the self-inserter cannot self-insert into a good looking character.Sawako is indeed average looking (with no make up), otherwise she wouldn't be a loner, she'd have a horde of boys flocking around her. Of course, no manga author would ever draw a main character ugly on purpose. But yeah, I should have said "average girl" instead of "average looking girl". See this change:  |
| Frankness be, I have this in my signature for little other reason than that I'm reading it, and that it's not in the M.A.L. database, thereby establishing proof that I liked it when it was still underground. |
Nirinbo said: MileyCyrusFan997 said: You specifically included “average looking”. It is indeed a very common trope to have an isolated, self-imposed female protagonist who often starts the story with no interest in mainstream life, but that's not what your claim was. Sawako is indeed average looking (with no make up), otherwise she wouldn't be a loner, she'd have a horde of boys flocking around her. Of course, no manga author would ever draw a main character ugly on purpose. But yeah, I should have said "average girl" instead of "average looking girl". Don't bother explaining. His trolling is so low level that he can't even bother to pick a proper picture for the male characters.  |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| Well, if you're watching a battle shounen and are expecting romance you came to the wrong place... |
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| Ummm is anyone gonna mention Inuyasha? It blends action, romance, and comedy all masterfully, and the romance is usually at the forefront with the love triangle. Even Sango and Meroku have a great relationship that naturally develops over the entire series. |
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