| Usually I tend to stay away from western pieces of animation since they can't achieve either a compelling story, or good animation, but after hearing so many good things about Arcane, I had to check it out. Turns it was stellar writing and animation, and I can't wait for the second season. This spurred me the idea, why is CGI is dog water in anime, but so goated in western animation. The only one that does a decent job is Studio Orange and it still pales in comparison to Arcane's animation. |
| Anyone that says no doesn't really understand animation. Arcane is one of the best-animated works out there. There is so much detail in character emoting. There is hardly ever a single still frame and it is very cinematic. It even utilizes 2d animation for smears and effect work to enhance the work. I still want 2d anime around but projects with this quality of CGI animation in anime would be amazing. |
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| Much better than a lot of the CG animes out nowadays...and that's saying something. Watch out Japan, the westerners have still got it in the animation department! |
| "You can't spell slaughter without laughter". |
| It's Chinese 3D Donghua. Tencent overlord has ownership over Riot Games. And the answer for the stark difference b/w Anime 3D and Arcane's 3D is $$$; duh |
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| Arcane animation was brilliant. I sure would like to see anime like it instead of the 10fps cgi we tend to get. It's not like we haven't been there, Advent Children is from 2009 and still looks pretty good, and Gantz O looked great as well. This spurred me the idea, why is CGI is dog water in anime, but so goated in western animation. The only one that does a decent job is Studio Orange and it still pales in comparison to Arcane's animation. I think the answer is budget. Pretty sure the budget to Arcane must have been 10 times higher than anything made by Japanese studios. Plus, CGI is commonly used only as background filler in anime, so maybe it still just ain't very popular in Japan like it is in the West, with Pixar and other studios having popularized with decades of great movies. |
Calal-Chan said: Anyone that says no doesn't really understand animation. Arcane is one of the best-animated works out there. There is so much detail in character emoting. There is hardly ever a single still frame and it is very cinematic. It even utilizes 2d animation for smears and effect work to enhance the work. I still want 2d anime around but projects with this quality of CGI animation in anime would be amazing. People don't have to "understand animation", they know how they feel. If they like it, they like it. It doesn't matter that it's "objectively good" if it's not appealing for the person. Mod Edit: Removed baiting. |
KuniiDec 7, 2021 10:23 AM
| "Would you like to see similar animation to Arcane in anime?" You mean art style not animation, right? Because there are some 3D CGI anime movies which are doing better job. And if you are looking for stylistically similar things, not an anime but you can check donghua like Knights On Debris and Spirit Cage. "Turns it was stellar writing" Naaah. "The only one that does a decent job is Studio Orange" Your problem is that you are paying attention only to cheap TV projects. |
alshuNov 25, 2021 4:34 PM
447799 said: Calal-Chan said: Anyone that says no doesn't really understand animation. Arcane is one of the best-animated works out there. There is so much detail in character emoting. There is hardly ever a single still frame and it is very cinematic. It even utilizes 2d animation for smears and effect work to enhance the work. I still want 2d anime around but projects with this quality of CGI animation in anime would be amazing. People don't have to "understand animation", they know how they feel. If they like it, they like it. It doesn't matter that it's "objectively good" if it's not appealing for the person. Having a deeper understanding of animation lets one appreciate the effort that animation actually takes. A lot of shows get criticized for having poor animation when in fact it might simply just be the art style that someone doesn't like. And it is fair to dislike a style but someone saying Arcane has bad animation is someone whose opinion I wouldn't hold in high regard honestly. If their reason is as shallow as I don't like it but I can't explain other than just a feeling. There is a difference between not liking something stylistically and saying it has bad animation solely because it is CGI. Your comment completely misses my point as CGI in the anime community is wildly disliked by many and simply because it is different from the normal and that people don't understand the strengths it can have over 2D animation. Mod Edit: Modified quote of edited post. |
KuniiDec 7, 2021 10:24 AM
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| @alshu Which 3D CGI movies are you talking about? I would be quite interested in watching them as for me I haven't seen a pretty much fully CGI anime (with maybe some 2d effect work and smears and stuff) that has as consistent and high-quality animation with the level of detail Arcane has. So I am highly interested in those. |
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ria_sora said: Calal-Chan said: @alshu Which 3D CGI movies are you talking about? I would be quite interested in watching them as for me I haven't seen a pretty much fully CGI anime (with maybe some 2d effect work and smears and stuff) that has as consistent and high-quality animation with the level of detail Arcane has. So I am highly interested in those. this one for example Oh, I remember seeing this a while back. Not sure if I would say it is as stylistic but thanks for the recommendation. The characters are not really emoting all that well (looks very stiff with the facial animations and is a bit uncanny in some places) but it does look quite good overall. |
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Calal-Chan said: Which 3D CGI movies are you talking about? So of those were already mentioned in this topic but: The movie trilogy (especially the newer entries): - Appleseed (Movie) - Appleseed Alpha - Appleseed Saga Ex Machina Captain Herlock (2013) Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children Kingsglaive: Final Fantasy XV Lupin III: The First Also maybe Vexille: 2077 Nihon Sakoku, Starship Troopers: Invasion and Starship Troopers: Red Planet but I don't remember those being that good...and the Biohazard ones were strait out horrible. None of those is in the stylistic you search tho. |
ria_sora said: Calal-Chan said: Oh, I remember seeing this a while back. Not sure if I would say it is as stylistic but thanks for the recommendation. The characters are not really emoting all that well (looks very stiff with the facial animations and is a bit uncanny in some places) but it does look quite good overall. if you are judging from the trailer only, i advice watching the movie first. not every scene requires cartoonesque exaggerated expressions. they utilized mocap to the fullest in there and managed to convey really subtle things. Not a huge fan of mocap usually but I will for sure watch it someday and make a full opinion on it then for sure. :D |
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| have you seen Lupin III: The First? amazing cgi and it's an anime movie btw _Lyborick_ said: why is CGI is dog water in anime, but so goated in western animation. budget |
indrawn said: have you seen Lupin III: The First? amazing cgi and it's an anime movie btw _Lyborick_ said: why is CGI is dog water in anime, but so goated in western animation. budget Not just budget, but also talent, the software used, rendering, time spent on it, etc. |
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_cjessop19_ said: Not just budget, but also talent, the software used, rendering, time spent on it, etc. People just don't want to accept that some groups are better at handling some tasks. Japanese studios excel at 2D animation, Western studios excel at CGI. |
| If you ever feel bored and are questioning the meaning of your existence, read deez blogs. Maybe you will find your answers. |
_cjessop19_ said: Not just budget, but also talent, the software used, rendering, time spent on it, etc. yeah, that's also very true. thanks for reminding me |
WutIsDis said: _cjessop19_ said: Not just budget, but also talent, the software used, rendering, time spent on it, etc. People just don't want to accept that some groups are better at handling some tasks. Japanese studios excel at 2D animation, Western studios excel at CGI. That's why the best cartoons are anime-inspired, and the best CG anime resemble Pixar or DreamWorks films. |
| MAL EMOJIS - Get your specially formatted emojis for MAL forums. |
WutIsDis said: _cjessop19_ said: Not just budget, but also talent, the software used, rendering, time spent on it, etc. People just don't want to accept that some groups are better at handling some tasks. Japanese studios excel at 2D animation, Western studios excel at CGI. It is also worth noting that, most of the time, even though there are exceptions, an anime has CGI in order to cut costs/production time because, as you said, they excel at 2D animation so when they have the money/time they just stick with what they are the best at. Regarding the western studios, its the other way around, they have, usually, more money/time to work with but they excel at using CGI and that is why their CGI is better because they are not using it to cut costs nor to save time. |
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| if only Kingdom has half the quality of Arcane's level of CGI... |
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| Anime studios work with very limited budgets and even then the talent of certain studios is off the charts so if they got them it it works like charm, For Arcane it's Riot Studios and Fortchie, i don't know about the latter but riot one, oof they have money and talent and they know how to make stuff. |
| 2025 might be the year where I will be happy. This year is not happy year. |
| Their animation was top tier, in every way, but especially in how they got so expressive with all of their characters. They didn't moved in human ways. I'd definitely like to see more in that style, but I'm assuming it costs an arm and a leg so highly unlikely. |
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| I don't watch Arcane and I prefer hand-drawn animation, but I already know that solid gold CG animation is relatively feasible. Living in a country with a very high GDP also makes the job easier. Too bad that the Berserk remake wasn't made with enough manpower. Not surprising considering the fact that Japan has a substantial elderly demographic. |
Kurt_IrvingDec 22, 2021 10:04 PM
_Lyborick_ said: Oh?Usually I tend to stay away from western pieces of animation since they can't achieve either a compelling story, or good animation, but after hearing so many good things about Arcane, I had to check it out. Turns it was stellar writing and animation, and I can't wait for the second season. This spurred me the idea, why is CGI is dog water in anime, but so goated in western animation. The only one that does a decent job is Studio Orange and it still pales in comparison to Arcane's animation. Disney, Pixar and Dreamworks would like to have a word with you. |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
| Absolutely gorgeous. Honestly up there with Spider-Verse as having some of the best 3D animation I've ever seen. |
Take care of yourself |
| Before watching it I heard that they blended some 2d animation in there and that had me worried. 2d and 3d don't always work well together but after seeing it I was very glad I was wrong. It worked VERY well. Congratulations to the team. I hope we see more. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| It's definetly the best CGI any animated show has ever gotten. And personnally it's my favorite looking CG-animated work along with Spider-Verse. What Arcane nailed the most visually is character shading and textures, they went with a totally different approach then Disney and Pixar movies where they tend to reach for realistic and detailled textures applied on cartoony models, and while it definetly works, they've been "stuck" in that aesthetic for two decades now so it's slowly but surely getting old. With Arcane, Fortiche didn't aim for realism and instead went for a "hand-painted" approach to textures, you can see brush strokes on every characters's faces, on their clothes, their hairs, their eyes, the show's absurdly detailled but at no point does it try to be as detailled as reality. They wanted to make every frame a painting, and they stuck to it on every single aspects. And while I'm at it, the animation itself too is interesting to analyze. I want to call it "semi-realistic" because while it's definetly not cartoony a la Tom and Jerry, it's not trying to be photorealistic either like a lot of episodes from Love Death and Robots (mostly made with motion-capture which is not the case with Arcane), it's exagerated sure but just enough to make it entertaining while still keeping the action grounded. It's really impressive how they managed to find the perfect balance between style and realism in pretty much every artistic department, and mindblowing that they delivered 6 full hours of this consistent quality. |
| I'm usually not too fond of CGI, even for western animation (I just think that generally, 2D animation gives more personality to the characters), but Arcane is an exception, the use of CGI is quite beautiful, it's not what I expected. That said, I don't know if I would like to see anime with this kind of animation, or to be more precise, I'd love to see some shows trying this kind of animation, but not the whole medium, because it would make it lose its identity and at some point, I'm afraid it would just feel like cheap copies of Arcane because it's popular. There's also the problem of time and money, most studios definitely wouldn't have the patience to take years to release a show (the fans would complain anyway), and I'm not sure they would have enough budget, so the result wouldn't be anywhere near as pretty. But I'm still totally open to see them try ! Arcane's animation made it one of the most immersive shows I've ever seen so I'm always in for more. |
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| Looks gorgeous and fits the series really well, definitely had the right talent behind it, investment and time too to produce it. I have my problems with the series 6 episodes in, particularly surrounding the pacing given how many elements there are to this story and series, but it looks phenomenal and honors the LoL series well too. It's impractical for anime studios to achieve this level though without the investments, staff and time like I mentioned since work like this clearly requires a ton of resources which most studios won't be able to replicate from my assumption so no point in thinking about this for them. Different situations, especially since there's so many anime and shows like Arcane are more distinctive to me at least given the kind of series it is while not just being a basic kid's cartoon or movie. |
| I honestly loathe 100% ALL C.G., movies and shows as I prefer either all hand drawn (simply not done anymore) or a combination of digitally drawn with C.G. ---once in a long while something like Arcane comes along and I'm impressed. Though to be fair I see a 2.5D mixed with C.G. style for Arcane. In fact, even though I'm a die hard Ghost in the Shell fan... I was simply appalled that G.I.T.S. 2045 went ALL C.G. and ARCANE makes it look like crap. 2045's story was alright and in the vein of the other S.A.C. stories, but the C.G. just looked like some PS3 Cut scene. ARCANE grabbed me and never let go. But I also feel this way about regular animation that creates a personal issue. WHY does something like CASTLEVANIA or Blood of Zeus that aren't from Japan... look more like anime durin the golden era than what 90% of modern ACTUAL anime looks like now? At the end of the day, it all comes down to what we like I guess. No denying ARCANE is amazing. |
shintai88 said: It was good. I think if they decided to make a Dishonoured show. it would work really well. That sounds like a match made in heaven. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
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