86--EIGHTY-SIX (light novel)
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| The more episodes I watch the more I want to root for legion. I mean, with the exception of the 86, Lena and like 6 more people, everyone is a fucking asshole. Should not the soldiers be happy? Having the 86 gives them way better chances to make it back home but not only are they not happy they actively hate the 86 because they are strong like wtf? Edit: Obviously, I am not counting Nina because she is a child dealing the loss of her brother so I suppose its understandable. |
HistoricalMaizeNov 6, 2021 12:44 PM
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ImmortalZero said: Personally don't like how shin's group has been thinking for these past episodes... I'd understand if they were still in their old country, but ever since they got to the city it's been not stop victim complexing. You try to be nice to them from the goodness of your heart then they think it's pity, you show compassion they think you're looking down at them, basically every good thing you do turns bad cause "we're 86".. Personally everyone on the federacy has only pitied at they way they were treated. They have internalized a form of racism just now in the sense of portraying them as tragic hero, but all they want is to be counted as one of them. Not 86 but human, and the only one that truly did that was Lena. If Lena said to stop it would come from goodness of her heart than pity because she has overcome that feeling. |
| They survived the Morph blast which wiped out more than 20 000 people. Frederica is scared of Shin turning into Kiriya or meeting the same fate as him. He tells her not to worry because you know who he is. Seems like the Legion need 2 monhts of time to repair the railgun and in between that amount of time, they have to find a solution to defeat it for once. Otherwise, they'll be wiped out. It is pretty obvious what their decision would be. Of course, putting the 86's lives in danger and sending them on a suicide mission. Oh god, the letters Shin received from that little brat. She's one hell of a crazy girl, espically at that age. Well, as if it will affect Shin. He just laughed at it and threw it away. What a man.. The survival rate is close to zero so 86 is up for a death game.. 2 weeks delay RIP. |
   “You yourself have to change first, or nothing will change for you!” ' |
MegamiRem said: That was an epic way to start the episode and I loved it. Hope Milizé's fine. The part with Shin and the letter was quite brutal, like seriously. Other than that build up episode for the upcoming raid. Excited for it yet worried about how it'll go at the same time. Sadly no episode next week so gotta wait two weeks to see it. If they keep up this brilliant work, one week will just make the next one look even better ;)) |
| The PTSD is starting to get to Shin as he can only compartmentalize the carnage for so long. He's a walking time bomb that is bound to snap at any moment. |
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| Ah, if only there was more scenes like the one before the opening. Last week gave a mech stiffy as well but it's just not enough after years of practically no mecha anime. HistoricalMaize said: Well, since episode one this show was really bad at portraying anyone other than main and a handful of side characters. Alba are so comically depraved I was close to dropping the first season. Characters are the weakest part of the show. If they weren't so poorly written in general, I'd be ready to say making almost everyone assholes is just a faithful portrayal of contemporary humanity but that would be giving way too much credit to the writers or source material.The more episodes I watch the more I want to root for legion. I mean, with the exception of the 86, Lena and like 6 more people, everyone is a fucking asshole. |
AntanaruNov 6, 2021 2:30 PM
Ii tenki desu ne... |
Antanaru said: Ah, if only there was more scenes like the one before the opening. Last week gave a mech stiffy as well but it's just not enough after years of practically no mecha anime. HistoricalMaize said: Well, since episode one this show was really bad at portraying anyone other than main and a handful of side characters. Alba are so comically depraved I was close to dropping the first season. Characters are the weakest part of the show. If they weren't so poorly written in general, I'd be ready to say making almost everyone assholes is just a faithful portrayal of contemporary humanity but that would be giving way too much credit to the writers or source material.The more episodes I watch the more I want to root for legion. I mean, with the exception of the 86, Lena and like 6 more people, everyone is a fucking asshole. The thing is, even if we put the Alba aside, why are the soldiers of the federation acting like that towards the people that literally increase their odds of survival just by being there? At that point its beyond just not knowing how to portray non major characters. Edit: they actually call them monsters and what not even when they just saved their ass its so weird. |
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UTMAN said: HistoricalMaize said: The thing is, even if we put the Alba aside, why are the soldiers of the federation acting like that towards the people that literally increase their odds of survival just by being there? At that point its beyond just not knowing how to portray non major characters. Edit: they actually call them monsters and what not even when they just saved their ass its so weird. Because while they are indeed great soldiers, they are a bad omen. Anybody next to them will most likely die, also they come off rather standoffish, so the regular soldiers have a pretty negative view of them. I would say they are treated like the Ghosts in the Starcraft universe. And while the commanders don't think of the 86 as some sort of disposable people, the grunt soldiers do. So they are sending them because if a regular federacy soldier would've been sent, people would pretty much be against it. I thought this episode was quite clear about this. just because the episode says that it does not make it a good explanation. theres literally scenes of soldiers insulting the 86 right after their ass was saved like what the fuck is going on? if he was not there you would be dead but you are mad at him? what? do you see why this makes me doubt either the iq level of the average soldier or the writing? And what you said about the commanders does not disprove what I said which was "with the exception of the 86, Lena and 6 more people everyone is an asshole in this show". Edit: Having a reason to be an asshole still makes you an asshole. |
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UTMAN said: HistoricalMaize said: just because the episode says that it does not make it a good explanation. theres literally scenes of soldiers insulting the 86 right after their ass was saved like what the fuck is going on? if he was not there you would be dead but you are mad at him? what? do you see why this makes me doubt either the iq level of the average soldier or the writing? And what you said about the commanders does not disprove what I said which was "with the exception of the 86, Lena e 6 more peopel everyone is an asshole in this show". Because they are unknown, also exhibit inhumane combat abilities any normal person newer saw. The only person who was saved by them and called them a monster is Marcel. In episode 5 any other unit who was saved by the 86 (the foot soldier at the beginning of the battle, and that Vanguard unit was actually pretty nice to them) You see random people in the barracks calling them Monsters (because they don't know them / probably heard shitty rumours) and you saw it once in the control room, where they saw their entire defence force annihilated, then a few Juggernaut easily fought back the invading main force with a minimal casualty. "with the exception of the 86, Lena e 6 more people everyone is an asshole in this show". - This is just not true. In the Federacy you basically saw 2 asshole characters so far. (who are a bit more major than some random soldier) Marcel and that black-haired commander. The dude who was talking is just done what he was commanded. Humans like living it is irrational to be against the 86 being there because if they are not your odds of survival just drop which again means that the average iq of a soldier is pretty fucking low or the writing of any character that is not a major one needs work. |
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HistoricalMaize said: Humans like living it is irrational to be against the 86 being there because if they are not your odds of survival just drop which again means that the average iq of a soldier is pretty fucking low or the writing of any character that is not a major one needs work. Tell that to the millions of American who won't get vaccinated !? Humans are notoriously bad at assessing risk, the rumours around Shin and the 86 make it seem to others that being associated with them is a death sentence, hence the reaper nick name has surfaced once more. We can see that the 86 go where the risk is highest, if they did not turn up more would die. None of this matters to you of course, you're only looking for any excuse to write that last statement. |
| Quantum ille canis est in fenestra |
borderliner said: HistoricalMaize said: Humans like living it is irrational to be against the 86 being there because if they are not your odds of survival just drop which again means that the average iq of a soldier is pretty fucking low or the writing of any character that is not a major one needs work. Tell that to the millions of American who won't get vaccinated !? Humans are notoriously bad at assessing risk, the rumours around Shin and the 86 make it seem to others that being associated with them is a death sentence, hence the reaper nick name has surfaced once more. We can see that the 86 go where the risk is highest, if they did not turn up more would die. None of this matters to you of course, you're only looking for any excuse to write that last statement. I love the passive agressiveness in that last phrase, apparently, a civilized discussion is too much to ask. Dude, news flash, this show is not as perfect as you are trying to make me believe, the 86 being hated was already in the 1st season this happening again is just the author repeating everything all over again because that is all he can do. He could not go past the initial conflict, he had to repeat the themes of discrimation in a different scenario, because he could not go further than that writing wise, humans suck we get it, we saw it in season 1, can we proceed? |
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UTMAN said: HistoricalMaize said: Humans like living it is irrational to be against the 86 being there because if they are not your odds of survival just drop which again means that the average iq of a soldier is pretty fucking low or the writing of any character that is not a major one needs work. I just gave you 2 very minor characters that were actually thankful for the 86. Then you had the new officers near Lena, and they were very helpful to her. Then you had the maid of Ernst, or any civilian during ep2. They all were nice to the 86. It feels like you just watch the show, but don't really pay attention. Also, the fact that something increases the odds of survival you can dislike it. You just gave a justification for the treatment of 86 by the Republic standards. Sending them as a meatshield to the front increases the Republic's survival, so why should anybody be against this decision? As I said 86-ers gave a really notorious vibe that has this effect on some people. You are reading what I am writing but you dont seem to understand. To me, this just feels forced, initially with the alba it made sense because while the alba were doing nothing the 86 were being forced to defend them which made the alba feel superior. In this case the 86 and the federation are fighting side by side but the 86 are still being hated so what is the message here? no matter what you do if you are good 90% of the people will hate you? the average persons iq is 10? the author could not write a more compeling reason for them to be hated by the federation? What gives? To me that notorious vibe you talk about should not even (realistically) amount to that much hatred. |
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| Can't wait to see Lena in action! |
My Candies:    |
UTMAN said: HistoricalMaize said: You are reading what I am writing but you dont seem to understand. To me, this just feels forced, initially with the alba it made sense because while the alba were doing nothing the 86 were being forced to defend them which made the alba feel superior. In this case the 86 and the federation are fighting side by side but the 86 are still being hated so what is the message here? no matter what you do if you are good 90% of the people will hate you? the average persons iq is 10? the author could not write a more compeling reason for them to be hated by the federation? What gives? To me that notorious vibe you talk about should not even (realistically) amount to that much hatred. Because the soldiers don't know the 86. They never saw them battle, they only heard the rumours that people die left and right next to them. Sure they might save a few individuals, but for like every save 1, 20 other dies. The fact that the development of the new juggernaut a lot of people died, but the 86 survived gives a LOT of bad reputation to them. The fact that when they appear, a lot of soldiers already died, because they only go to battlefields that are really badly overrun, so any battle they attend has a huge casualty risk. So having them there means you have a higher chance of death. Do you get it now? I understand that you really like the show but do you really need to resort to that condescending tone? Again that is not a good explanation. You are basically saying that they are being hated by association with a battle when if they were not there the casualties would be even higher. The 86 being there increases their chances of survival because them being there or not does not change the fact that the battle is fucked so theres no reason for you not to be happy for having them there to help you. |
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HistoricalMaize said: UTMAN said: I just gave you 2 very minor characters that were actually thankful for the 86. Then you had the new officers near Lena, and they were very helpful to her. Then you had the maid of Ernst, or any civilian during ep2. They all were nice to the 86. It feels like you just watch the show, but don't really pay attention. Also, the fact that something increases the odds of survival you can dislike it. You just gave a justification for the treatment of 86 by the Republic standards. Sending them as a meatshield to the front increases the Republic's survival, so why should anybody be against this decision? As I said 86-ers gave a really notorious vibe that has this effect on some people. You are reading what I am writing but you dont seem to understand. To me, this just feels forced, initially with the alba it made sense because while the alba were doing nothing the 86 were being forced to defend them which made the alba feel superior. In this case the 86 and the federation are fighting side by side but the 86 are still being hated so what is the message here? no matter what you do if you are good 90% of the people will hate you? the average persons iq is 10? the author could not write a more compeling reason for them to be hated by the federation? What gives? To me that notorious vibe you talk about should not even (realistically) amount to that much hatred. The Federacy soldiers fear the 86. They keep on telling the 86 to stay out of war and live a peaceful life, but they still stubbornly chose to go back to the battlefield. They don't understand that part which is where their fear and growing frustration with them is coming from. In their perspective they're just nothing but emotionless killing machines (also why Frederica sees the Legion-Kiri in Shin), child soldiers who seemingly aren't afraid to die. I mean you don't expect kids to act like that either, don't you? Last week they're literally fighting like they're having fun. They're starting to look like tools of war to the Federacy given how much they want to fight... but the point is they aren't which is why the story is trying to humanize them by showing us their perspective. On the other hand, the 86 wants to be treated like an equal. Not a bunch of kids who should be pampered with pity. This kind of thinking is unhealthy because no matter how much they complain, they're still a bunch of kids at the end of the day. The story is very much aware of this and their naivety does get questioned in the following volume.s |
w3b0shiNov 6, 2021 3:47 PM
| Nope. |
w3b0shi said: HistoricalMaize said: You are reading what I am writing but you dont seem to understand. To me, this just feels forced, initially with the alba it made sense because while the alba were doing nothing the 86 were being forced to defend them which made the alba feel superior. In this case the 86 and the federation are fighting side by side but the 86 are still being hated so what is the message here? no matter what you do if you are good 90% of the people will hate you? the average persons iq is 10? the author could not write a more compeling reason for them to be hated by the federation? What gives? To me that notorious vibe you talk about should not even (realistically) amount to that much hatred. The Federacy soldiers fear the 86. They keep on telling the 86 to stay out of war and live a peaceful life, but they still chose to go back to the battlefield. They don't understand that part, which is where their fear and growing frustration with them is coming from. In their perspective they're just nothing but emotionless killing machines. I mean you don't expect kids to act like that either, don't you? Last week they're literally fighting like they're having fun. On the other hand, the 86 wants to be treated like an equal. Not a bunch of kids who should be pampered with pity. This kind of thinking is unhealthy because no matter how much they complain, they're still a bunch of kids at the end of the day. The story is very much aware of this and their naivety does get questioned in the following volume.s I hope that last part you said is true but, regarding your first point, they are fighting machines why would you care if they are an emotionless killing machine or not? its the fucking machine apocalypse worry about the mental state of the 86 once you actually saved humanity and "living a peaceful life" seems pretty good on paper but you have to consider that they would just live in fear because they know that the legion would eventually get to them so they might as well play an active role to stop them. |
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HistoricalMaize said: borderliner said: Tell that to the millions of American who won't get vaccinated !? Humans are notoriously bad at assessing risk, the rumours around Shin and the 86 make it seem to others that being associated with them is a death sentence, hence the reaper nick name has surfaced once more. We can see that the 86 go where the risk is highest, if they did not turn up more would die. None of this matters to you of course, you're only looking for any excuse to write that last statement. I love the passive agressiveness in that last phrase, apparently, a civilized discussion is too much to ask. Dude, news flash, this show is not as perfect as you are trying to make me believe, the 86 being hated was already in the 1st season this happening again is just the author repeating everything all over again because that is all he can do. He could not go past the initial conflict, he had to repeat the themes of discrimation in a different scenario, because he could not go further than that writing wise, humans suck we get it, we saw it in season 1, can we proceed? Nothing passive about it, it was a statement of what I considered to be fact, which you've just verified with your follow up. And here we are with the "you think the show's perfect" strawman again. If you actually read the comments you'll see that the show's fans are perfectly aware it has flaws, and so what if it has, what show hasn't? What's important is the flaws don't interfere with the story that's being told. But what you're describing isn't even a flaw, it's a theme (even you figured that out), and you think the author should abandon it!? what sense does that make? |
| Quantum ille canis est in fenestra |
UTMAN said: HistoricalMaize said: I understand that you really like the show but do you really need to resort to that condescending tone? Again that is not a good explanation. You are basically saying that they are being hated by association with a battle where if they were not there the casualties would be even higher. The 86 being there increases their chances of survival because them being there or not does not change the fact that the battle is fucked so theres no reason for you not to be happy for having them there to help you. Sorry, English is not my main language, so if I came up condescending, I apologize, wasn't my intention. There is a saying that ignorance is bliss. If they didn't know this they would be happier. But the fact that an 86-er shows up, they immediately know that the situation is really bad. So they are, as I said a bad omen. "The 86 being there increases their chances of survival because them being there or not does not change the fact that the battle is fucked" This one is tricky since they are there because the battle there is fucked, if they weren't there that would mean the battle is not so dire. Sure having them there is nice, but if they weren't there that would mean the battle was a lot less hostile to begin with. Also, it's human nature to push the blame on something. And that's what the common people do when they blame Shin and his co. Also, this gives a bit of depth to the characters. Not everybody is nice to them, some people actually dislike them. And as I said there were a lot of people in Giad who were pretty nice to them already. "sorry english is not my main language" the part where you sounded condescending was the "do you get it now" if we were actually talking to each other it probably would not have sounded like that but due to the fact that we are writing it gets a bit tricky but its fine it also seemed strange to me that out of nowhere you just started doing that. "it's human nature to push the blame on something." I will agree with that but I will say that the show is stretching the limit of how much blame you can actually put on a factor that has nothing to do with what the legion does or does not. |
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HistoricalMaize said: w3b0shi said: The Federacy soldiers fear the 86. They keep on telling the 86 to stay out of war and live a peaceful life, but they still chose to go back to the battlefield. They don't understand that part, which is where their fear and growing frustration with them is coming from. In their perspective they're just nothing but emotionless killing machines. I mean you don't expect kids to act like that either, don't you? Last week they're literally fighting like they're having fun. On the other hand, the 86 wants to be treated like an equal. Not a bunch of kids who should be pampered with pity. This kind of thinking is unhealthy because no matter how much they complain, they're still a bunch of kids at the end of the day. The story is very much aware of this and their naivety does get questioned in the following volume.s I hope that last part you said is true but, regarding your first point, they are fighting machines why would you care if they are an emotionless killing machine or not? its the fucking machine apocalypse worry about the mental state of the 86 once you actually saved humanity and "living a peaceful life" seems pretty good on paper but you have to consider that they would just live in fear because they know that the legion would eventually get to them so they might as well play an active role to stop them. Because there's still a modicum of morality left in these people. They're not barbarians. People in the Federacy aren't insane enough to actually order a child to fight and die in place of an adult... unless it's one of those genocidal Alba. The Federacy gave them a way out of war which they stubbornly turned down. That disconnect turned into confusion, frustration, and now they're also using that as an "excuse" to send them off in a suicide mission against the Legion. You can say that they've pretty much ran out of patience catering to the self-servicing 86. |
| Nope. |
w3b0shi said: HistoricalMaize said: I hope that last part you said is true but, regarding your first point, they are fighting machines why would you care if they are an emotionless killing machine or not? its the fucking machine apocalypse worry about the mental state of the 86 once you actually saved humanity and "living a peaceful life" seems pretty good on paper but you have to consider that they would just live in fear because they know that the legion would eventually get to them so they might as well play an active role to stop them. Because there's still a modicum of morality left in these people. They're not barbarians. People in the Federacy aren't insane enough to actually order a child to fight and die in place of an adult... unless it's one of those genocidal Alba. The Federacy gave them a way out of war which they stubbornly turned down. That disconnect turned into confusion, frustration, and now they're also using that as an "excuse" to send them off in a suicide mission against the Legion. You can say that they've pretty much ran out of patience catering to the self-servicing 86. But thats the thing the federation feels like they are so morally superior in comparison to the republic regarding some things (like child soldiers and what not) but when it comes to sending said child soldiers into a suicide mission they are fine with it. Are they really not "insane enough to actually order a child to fight and die in place of an adult"? They just did. |
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w3b0shi said: And even then the Federacy gave them the option to turn down said mission too. The Federacy aren't really being the bad guys here, the problem really lies in the fact that the 86 are still trapped as being 86 mentally.HistoricalMaize said: I hope that last part you said is true but, regarding your first point, they are fighting machines why would you care if they are an emotionless killing machine or not? its the fucking machine apocalypse worry about the mental state of the 86 once you actually saved humanity and "living a peaceful life" seems pretty good on paper but you have to consider that they would just live in fear because they know that the legion would eventually get to them so they might as well play an active role to stop them. Because there's still a modicum of morality left in these people. They're not barbarians. People in the Federacy aren't insane enough to actually order a child to fight and die in place of an adult... unless it's one of those genocidal Alba. The Federacy gave them a way out of war which they stubbornly turned down. That disconnect turned into confusion, frustration, and now they're also using that as an "excuse" to send them off in a suicide mission against the Legion. You can say that they've pretty much ran out of patience catering to the self-servicing 86. |
My Queens  |
borderliner said: HistoricalMaize said: I love the passive agressiveness in that last phrase, apparently, a civilized discussion is too much to ask. Dude, news flash, this show is not as perfect as you are trying to make me believe, the 86 being hated was already in the 1st season this happening again is just the author repeating everything all over again because that is all he can do. He could not go past the initial conflict, he had to repeat the themes of discrimation in a different scenario, because he could not go further than that writing wise, humans suck we get it, we saw it in season 1, can we proceed? Nothing passive about it, it was a statement of what I considered to be fact, which you've just verified with your follow up. And here we are with the "you think the show's perfect" strawman again. If you actually read the comments you'll see that the show's fans are perfectly aware it has flaws, and so what if it has, what show hasn't? What's important is the flaws don't interfere with the story that's being told. But what you're describing isn't even a flaw, it's a theme (even you figured that out), and you think the author should abandon it!? what sense does that make? No the author should not abandon the theme, he should elevate it further not repeat it all over again which is what he is doing. During the 1st season the 86 were being sent on suicide missions. During the 2nd season the 86 are being sent on suicide missions under new management. During the 3rd season are they going to be sent on suicide missions too? |
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HistoricalMaize said: w3b0shi said: Because there's still a modicum of morality left in these people. They're not barbarians. People in the Federacy aren't insane enough to actually order a child to fight and die in place of an adult... unless it's one of those genocidal Alba. The Federacy gave them a way out of war which they stubbornly turned down. That disconnect turned into confusion, frustration, and now they're also using that as an "excuse" to send them off in a suicide mission against the Legion. You can say that they've pretty much ran out of patience catering to the self-servicing 86. But thats the thing the federation feels like they are so morally superior in comparison to the republic regarding some things (like child soldiers and what not) but when it comes to sending said child soldiers into a suicide mission they are fine with it. Are they really not "insane enough to actually order a child to fight and die in place of an adult"? They just did. They were at first opposed to the 86 enlisting in the army or using the Reginleif. Remember how the previous meetings in past episodes went? But of course the situation is different now -- when faced with grim situations like these people's opinion tend to change drastically. Eitherway the show never implied that the Federacy are always correct nor you should trust them, in fact Raiden and the rest of the squad acknowledged that they aren't the saints they think they are (see episode 15). |
| Nope. |
HistoricalMaize said: borderliner said: Nothing passive about it, it was a statement of what I considered to be fact, which you've just verified with your follow up. And here we are with the "you think the show's perfect" strawman again. If you actually read the comments you'll see that the show's fans are perfectly aware it has flaws, and so what if it has, what show hasn't? What's important is the flaws don't interfere with the story that's being told. But what you're describing isn't even a flaw, it's a theme (even you figured that out), and you think the author should abandon it!? what sense does that make? No the author should not abandon the theme, he should elevate it further not repeat it all over again which is what he is doing. During the 1st season the 86 were being sent on suicide missions. During the 2nd season the 86 are being sent on suicide missions under new management. During the 3rd season are they going to be sent on suicide missions too? The narrative and theme in the 3rd season is already different if that will ever exist. Eitherway, if we're talking about just the first 2 season, using parallels are part of elevating a theme. It's basically why even if they are in a new society, the story unfolds in a way that tells them they're doing the same thing as they were in the Republic. That they are far from free, that Shin is just the same Reaper who bears the burden of putting down his friends and carrying their memories. It's why he's starting to feel tired of it all as shown in this episode. Isn't that part of an overarching theme about freedom and identity? |
| Nope. |
| Another gripping and sad episode. It seems the 86 will never be free of the chains of their sad upbringing. ollythirteen said: ... I know a lot of people don't care much for her character but the show needs more Lena to balance out all the 86 because there is A LOT of story not being shown on the San Magnolia side of things e.g. how the citizens react to a war they thought was being fought by AI when it reaches their doorstep, how the San Magnolia army that's being shown lazing about react etc. I'm sure the LN readers know what's ahead and will say the payoff for all the patience will be worth it, but it's episode 6. If the first cour is anything to go by we have just 5 episodes left..... Agree with you wholeheartedly with this. It would have been very interesting to have more scenes depicting the destruction of San Magnolia and flesh out more how it's smug citizenry and military reacted to it. That said, the story still stands well as is. My only pet peeve is the loli character that continues to feel so out of place here. It irks me every-time she opens her mouth. |
| "Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov |
HistoricalMaize said: borderliner said: Nothing passive about it, it was a statement of what I considered to be fact, which you've just verified with your follow up. And here we are with the "you think the show's perfect" strawman again. If you actually read the comments you'll see that the show's fans are perfectly aware it has flaws, and so what if it has, what show hasn't? What's important is the flaws don't interfere with the story that's being told. But what you're describing isn't even a flaw, it's a theme (even you figured that out), and you think the author should abandon it!? what sense does that make? No the author should not abandon the theme, he should elevate it further not repeat it all over again which is what he is doing. During the 1st season the 86 were being sent on suicide missions. During the 2nd season the 86 are being sent on suicide missions under new management. During the 3rd season are they going to be sent on suicide missions too? Why are you suddenly talking about a suicide mission, what does that have with the soldiers discriminating against the 86? And isn't using the 86 for this mission the smartest thing to do (which is exactly the opposite of your "soldiers got low IQ" statement) Like I said, you're just looking for opportunities to take pot shots, but so far all you've managed is to shoot yourself in the foot. |
| Quantum ille canis est in fenestra |
borderliner said: HistoricalMaize said: No the author should not abandon the theme, he should elevate it further not repeat it all over again which is what he is doing. During the 1st season the 86 were being sent on suicide missions. During the 2nd season the 86 are being sent on suicide missions under new management. During the 3rd season are they going to be sent on suicide missions too? Why are you suddenly talking about a suicide mission, what does that have with the soldiers discriminating against the 86? And isn't using the 86 for this mission the smartest thing to do (which is exactly the opposite of your "soldiers got low IQ" statement) Like I said, you're just looking for opportunities to take pot shots, but so far all you've managed is to shoot yourself in the foot. I am saying that the author is repeating what he did in the previous season letter by letter instead of elevating it further but if you really want to deny that fine. I find it amazing that the only guy that was able to give me a convincing argument in this whole thread was also the only one that did not resort to passive agrressive bullshit what a coincidence. |
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| Holy... Lena's situation seems to be really dire... those visuals while the ED played is more proof to that. :/ Little worried for our Major. Another strong build-up episode, with a great look on Shin's psyche. It comes to no surprise that Nina blames Shin for the the death of her brother, but that sequence left me a bit confused on what happened when. Might need to give it a rewatch to pay more attention to the dates. So the battle against the Morpho is at hand and I swear, I've got a really, really, really bad feeling about this. |
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Pranavk27 said: HistoricalMaize said: No the author should not abandon the theme, he should elevate it further not repeat it all over again which is what he is doing. During the 1st season the 86 were being sent on suicide missions. During the 2nd season the 86 are being sent on suicide missions under new management. During the 3rd season are they going to be sent on suicide missions too? How it is same ? In cour 1 they were forced. In cour 2 they were given choice. it is the same because they are doing the same thing while being hated by everyone else. What choice do they have? Its either doing that or getting killed by the legion when they finish their repairs. When you either die or do something thats not really a choice. |
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GGcc78 said: HistoricalMaize said: So the near suicide missions continue. Theyre an elite fighting force, what else should one expect? Its like asking Demon Slayer to stop having the MC kill demons or having protaganists in Gundam not go out there to bettle other mechs. The elevation happens in the character development and themes explored. The first season was about racism. This season dabbles on "what do you do when your war is over" mixed in with PTSD. Future novels start to explore the side characters more and really goes hard on the "what do you do when the war is over" aspect of the story. They continue to go and fight the fight, but they begin to ask what they actually want to be once they no longer have to fight.No the author should not abandon the theme, he should elevate it further not repeat it all over again which is what he is doing. During the 1st season the 86 were being sent on suicide missions. During the 2nd season the 86 are being sent on suicide missions under new management. During the 3rd season are they going to be sent on suicide missions too? Its those moments where 86 is at its most interesting. Also spoilers for those who are curious The best thing I learned in this thread was that the next seasons of 86 will be much better than the 1st 2 and I am honestly all for it. |
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HistoricalMaize said: The author is a she btw. And no she's not repeating the same thing. Discrimination comes in many forms and the discrimination they are dealing with in the Federacy is far different than what they delt with in the Republic. borderliner said: Nothing passive about it, it was a statement of what I considered to be fact, which you've just verified with your follow up. And here we are with the "you think the show's perfect" strawman again. If you actually read the comments you'll see that the show's fans are perfectly aware it has flaws, and so what if it has, what show hasn't? What's important is the flaws don't interfere with the story that's being told. But what you're describing isn't even a flaw, it's a theme (even you figured that out), and you think the author should abandon it!? what sense does that make? No the author should not abandon the theme, he should elevate it further not repeat it all over again which is what he is doing. During the 1st season the 86 were being sent on suicide missions. During the 2nd season the 86 are being sent on suicide missions under new management. During the 3rd season are they going to be sent on suicide missions too? In the Republic, they were seen as nothing more than subhuman meat shields because they weren't Alba. However in the Federacy, they are viewed by the general populace as helpless children that needed to be pitied due to their circumstances(Fredrica said it best "they just escaped a cage of oppression, now you want to trap them in a cage of pity") and in the military the wall of fear and hatred was created by Shin and company's own reputation and indifferent mentalities to the deaths around them. And as the suicide missions go, they again are completely different. The Republic forced them to carry out the suicide mission. However, the Federacy gave them an out, but they just simply turned it down cause even though they escaped the life of an 86, they are still trapped as one mentally. So you see, she's expanding on the themes rather than just repeating it over and over again. If you look beyond the surface level, you should be able to see it too. |
-MahesvaraNov 6, 2021 4:52 PM
My Queens |
HistoricalMaize said: borderliner said: Why are you suddenly talking about a suicide mission, what does that have with the soldiers discriminating against the 86? And isn't using the 86 for this mission the smartest thing to do (which is exactly the opposite of your "soldiers got low IQ" statement) Like I said, you're just looking for opportunities to take pot shots, but so far all you've managed is to shoot yourself in the foot. I am saying that the author is repeating what he did in the previous season letter by letter instead of elevating it further but if you really want to deny that fine. I find it amazing that the only guy that was able to give me a convincing argument in this whole thread was also the only one that did not resort to passive agrressive bullshit what a coincidence. Well, you weren't saying that at the start, so you're not great at being consistent, but just like your first statement, I'm saying your latest is flat out wrong. You really need to look up what passive-aggressive actually means. And why would I want to convince you of anything? |
| Quantum ille canis est in fenestra |
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