| I've seen a lot of people saying that they'd want more death in anime or manga and this mainly consists of shounen. Alright, lemme ask you this, why you'd want a character you like to die? That's the part I don't understant. They not only want characters they don't like or/and hate to die (which is fine, I guess) but they also want characters they like to somehow die because according to them - The more deaths the better is and the more realistic the story would become. It seems people often mistake seinen and psychological with honestly anything else. What's your take on this? |
| There needs to be a sense of realism to it though. If you dont want to kill of the one of the mc's then the creator shouldn't put them in compromising situations where they would definitely die if not for plot armor. One could argue that its all fiction but there comes a point where its just plain bullshit. |
| Depends on why I'm watching the show. If I find the main appeal of a show to be that it's "brutal," then my immersion that it is indeed a brutal setting would be disturbed if everyone with a character arc never dies. On the other hand, people dying a lot does not a good story make, obviously. Though, why does it matter, in the abstract, that a character I like died? What if their character arc was already completed and there wasn't much left interesting for them to do? |
FreshellApr 28, 2020 3:55 PM
| If you look at well written fiction that kills off characters regularly (A Song of Ice and Fire is a major example) then you can understand that for the death of a character to have maximum impact you generally have to have either grown to love or hate that character, and that's done through the writing. I mean it also needs to make sense and be surprising enough (or telegraphed enough, I mean we all knew Joffrey was gonna get it at some point, but knowing that didn't make it any less satisfying) to matter. I think when people say they want "more death" they really mean they want more impactful writing. To use an example from Made In Abyss (seriously, don't read this spoiler if you haven't seen the show) :- I guess what I'm saying is that "death" as a story device doesn't mean much unless it makes sense to the overall story and that story/character is well written. What I mean by making sense is that if the story has built up to a point where in a particular situation someone should die but then they miraculously don't because of some random deus ex machina moment then that's gonna rob the scene of impact. But introducing characters willy nilly just to rub them out a few scenes later with no development has close to zero impact as well. |
CallMeHootApr 28, 2020 2:17 PM
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| It could create more tension. And usually, with a character's death, new grudges can form which can lead to interesting arcs and stories |
| Agreed with other people, it makes things more tense, and puts a lot more on the line. If characters never die, you just start to expect the protags will always win and survive. But if you sprinkle a little bit of death in there, then it becomes more of a possibility for them to not survive, giving you more of a reason to be tense and root for them. It can also make for more interesting things going on between the characters. |
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| I just want deaths to actually stick and not be some magic voodoo that suddenly brings them back to life. Like it's literally the black plague in shounen, almost every major one has some character dramatically die only to come back all well and alive moments later. Seems more like a cheap way to create drama than anything. |
 'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped' |
Like my dude. Sometimes anime girls need to die  because I want to see sexy dead girls. I mean just look at these dead girls Youd be crazy to not be turned on by this |
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| I think most people claim they want death, but in reality, they want any kind of consequence in order to add tension and stakes to the next scene or arc. Death is just the most impactful kind of consequence, if done right. This is one of the main reason I didn't enjoyed Kimetsu no Yaiba as most people did. It felt nothing bad could happen to the characters, so even the extremely well produced fights felt a bit boring thanks to the lack of tension And that is also one of the reasons I belive Season 1 for SNK is a masterpiece. There is so much tension throughout all the 25 episodes, making the show a exciting and unpredictable. Sure, the death element could also become a joke if done excessively, like Akame ga Kill. So the key word here is execution. I also belive just because something is shounen it isn't an excuse of the plot being childish and dumb. They should accept consequence to their characters, otherwise the story will become bad |
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| People don't want more death, people just don't want Fairy Tail lol |
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| I don't understand it as well. While I agree that having deaths in a setting where characters lives are at constant risk is to be expected, it's not really what I would like to see when starting any show of this kind. "I'm gonna start Attack on Titan, hope Eren gets killed by titan soon because realism" |
ISeeLifePeopleApr 28, 2020 2:52 PM
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Attackonfiller said: Yee, probably that's the case lmaoPlease add a spoiler tag to your comment. I fortunately have seen both shows but it'd be sad if anyone get spoiled on that.People don't want more death, people just don't want Fairy Tail lol @ISeeLifePeople [spoiler] write anything you want to write [/spoiler] Here's how you can do that |
bend_overApr 28, 2020 2:49 PM
Deknijff said: Like my dude. Sometimes anime girls need to die because I want to see sexy dead girls. I mean just look at these dead girls Youd be crazy to not be turned on by this |
| People don't want more death, they're just (rightfully) frustrated over all these series that tease death and just come up with some out of left field explanations as to why these characters don't die. Characters don't have to die to make the show interesting, but also don't make me think the character might die and consistently back out every single time, that's just shit writing. I no longer give a shit whether these characters are put into life or death situations because I know they won't die. |
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ifuck said: Nah they the only ones who got away Deknijff said: Like my dude. Sometimes anime girls need to die because I want to see sexy dead girls. I mean just look at these dead girls Youd be crazy to not be turned on by this I think that old lady also survived because her daughter was keeping her hidden in the house but don't think anyone else than those 3 of the vampires survived |
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Deknijff said: I see. Anyway, I fucking hate the priest. Fuck him with anything that can fuck.Nah they the only ones who got away I think that old lady also survived because her daughter was keeping her hidden in the house but don't think anyone else than those 3 of the vampires survived |
ifuck said: Attackonfiller said: Yee, probably that's the case lmaoPlease add a spoiler tag to your comment. I fortunately have seen both shows but it'd be sad if anyone get spoiled on that.People don't want more death, people just don't want Fairy Tail lol @ISeeLifePeople [spoiler] write anything you want to write [/spoiler] Here's how you can do that actually im not person who complain about spoiler but its ok if dis one bother u |
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| It's not about more deaths, it is about when a character dies it should stay dead for fuck sack. |
| "This is my father's crime against me, which I myself committed against none" Al-ma'arri |
| I feel like it's because it gets repetitive and predictable when shounen characters always nearly die. I don't feel anything when I watch characters nearly die. They make it SEEM like they're dead but they're not. It's always the same thing. But when my favorite character dies, I get sad and I always like a good cry. I mean, I don't LIKE when my fav dies but I feel like the anime will have a bigger impact if it kills off a character that I at least like. That might be the reason why I like the danganronpa games so much lmao |
| Death is the great equaliser. While the protagonist dying is a taboo. Killing a supportive character is at times essential. Now if that happens to be a character you like, well luck just wasn't on your side. But if the story progresses in a good direction and you stick around. That death might have been worth it. Death is a plot twist, depending on when, why, how and who it can be a tastefully done plot twist. Sadly that is not always the case. |
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| No need for more death. Just made the existing ones meaningful. *I'm looking at you DBZ* |
| It depends. If a character dies it can be used as valuable character development for the remaining alive characters, but there are other ways this can be done. It’s not necessary to even have death in a good anime but it is an easy way to ramp up the tension and use the situation for big character developments. However if there is too much death it destroys any tension had, if characters are dropping like flies for no reason then why should I care about any of the alive cast? Most of them will probably end up dead so there is no point in caring. |
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| Beacuse it make no sense that no one of Fail Tails allys dosen't die in the show. It's not like I want the whole cast to die, but feels is nice to have in like a Battle Shounen, it makes the story normal better and nice to see how the character change after someone close to them die. The leader of Fail Tail the granda, he died 10x times through 400 eps but always came back to life. It's stupid, make the story boring and the different between Naruto and Fail Tail is that, Fail Tail have no feels at all in it. |
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| Depending on the situation, it could make the situation becomes more intense amd emotional which is a positive thing. |
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| realism i assume and some people are just psychopathic |
| there are a lot of reasons for this, it really depends on the nature of the show which one is it. 1. annoying characters who completely ruin any episode they're part of. 2. realism? maybe? don't know why you'd want this in anime. 3. fanservice for those who got used to violent anime, and have nothing like that anymore. 4. the most important one, which I'm betting on is higher stakes. with nobody dying, fights can lose their meaning. if there are no consequences, they can just change their reason and switch sides or go back to their old ways, etc. a perfect example is kamen rider 01, which is currently airing. they just fight around, and take sides depending on the situation, even with them being professionals and whatnot. |
| 馬鹿げた倫理 全部ガラクタで |
| They give me the sensation the danger is real and not everything will be solved with friendship power, or protagonism |
| Imagine how boring this world would be without Japan - a comment at youtube |
| Because apparently it makes anime more realistic if someone dies. |
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thiago52192 said: I think most people claim they want death, but in reality, they want any kind of consequence in order to add tension and stakes to the next scene or arc. Death is just the most impactful kind of consequence, if done right. This is one of the main reason I didn't enjoyed Kimetsu no Yaiba as most people did. It felt nothing bad could happen to the characters, so even the extremely well produced fights felt a bit boring thanks to the lack of tension And that is also one of the reasons I belive Season 1 for SNK is a masterpiece. There is so much tension throughout all the 25 episodes, making the show a exciting and unpredictable. Sure, the death element could also become a joke if done excessively, like Akame ga Kill. So the key word here is execution. I also belive just because something is shounen it isn't an excuse of the plot being childish and dumb. They should accept consequence to their characters, otherwise the story will become bad There seems to be a clear case of obvious bias with your comparisons. You're implying the 1st season of SNK didn't just use death for the shock factor when we have a bunch of side characters we literally don't care about dying one after another (because the main cast can't be hurt just yet) and they treat it as something extremely monumental when in reality, they're all just meaningless deaths chalked up to "stakes and consequences." |
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| Walking dead is quite popular, so I guess it works. I think the shounen episodes would be cut shorter if they kill characters so it's easier to watch as shounen tries to be the next one piece. It's a double edged sword? If it's not done properly then people would forget about it. But it would make for an epic fight in shounen show as they can actually die. |
| I mean, I guess some edgelords do, but they are the same people who think 'realism' means being as dark, edgy, violent and depressing as possible at any given moment in time, and any attempts at positivite are unrealistic. But for the most part I think people just don't want to get death-baited by anime. If an injury looks lethal, if someone falls down a 100m cliff, they should die from that and not just recuperate without an explanation or via some asspull. It's annoying when a writer uses 'death' to make us care about a scene, just to then reveal that he was just 'kidding' the whole time, and there is no death after all. That's cheap and manipulative. Death should mean something, and not just be thrown around as 'bait' to not lose the viewers attention while the writing is declining. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| I don't know why do people want more death. I'm more interested on the consequences of death (grief, trauma) than death itself. As for survival adventure/action shows I guess it would help feel the danger but I think it's not the best way to convey that something is, indeed, dangerous. Atmosphere should be given more attention. |
Dull_Lull said: thiago52192 said: I think most people claim they want death, but in reality, they want any kind of consequence in order to add tension and stakes to the next scene or arc. Death is just the most impactful kind of consequence, if done right. This is one of the main reason I didn't enjoyed Kimetsu no Yaiba as most people did. It felt nothing bad could happen to the characters, so even the extremely well produced fights felt a bit boring thanks to the lack of tension And that is also one of the reasons I belive Season 1 for SNK is a masterpiece. There is so much tension throughout all the 25 episodes, making the show a exciting and unpredictable. Sure, the death element could also become a joke if done excessively, like Akame ga Kill. So the key word here is execution. I also belive just because something is shounen it isn't an excuse of the plot being childish and dumb. They should accept consequence to their characters, otherwise the story will become bad There seems to be a clear case of obvious bias with your comparisons. You're implying the 1st season of SNK didn't just use death for the shock factor when we have a bunch of side characters we literally don't care about dying one after another (because the main cast can't be hurt just yet) and they treat it as something extremely monumental when in reality, they're all just meaningless deaths chalked up to "stakes and consequences." I don't think I use the term or even the idea of "shock factor" in my comment, so stating that I've implied S1 didn't used death for shock factor is wrong. The word I used was execution. And I do belive S1 did that really well. One example of deaths of "side characters we literally don't care about" done right is ep. 5. The death of the entire squad was definitely aiming to "shock" the audience, but the reason it suceeded is because of the storytelling behind it. Everything from episode 2 was building up to the idea of humans fighting back the titans, specially Eren. It created this expectation that the show would use a shounen formula of protagonist training to be better and overcoming his enemies just by having a strong will to do it. Not only thoses deaths completely destroy the idea of "power of will", it questions the viewer if humanity can defeat the titans by itself. Most of the deaths on SNK has a purpose on the story, and even the ones that doesn't, are a natural consequence of some story event. And I may be getting the wrong idea, but by reading your comment, your opinion on death is that it could only work properly if it is used on a really developed character in order to create an emotional response on the viewer. Although it is a one of the best way of using it, I completely disagree with the idea of being the only way of doing it correctly |
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thiago52192 said: Dull_Lull said: There seems to be a clear case of obvious bias with your comparisons. You're implying the 1st season of SNK didn't just use death for the shock factor when we have a bunch of side characters we literally don't care about dying one after another (because the main cast can't be hurt just yet) and they treat it as something extremely monumental when in reality, they're all just meaningless deaths chalked up to "stakes and consequences." I don't think I use the term or even the idea of "shock factor" in my comment, so stating that I've implied S1 didn't used death for shock factor is wrong. The word I used was execution. And I do belive S1 did that really well. One example of deaths of "side characters we literally don't care about" done right is ep. 5. The death of the entire squad was definitely aiming to "shock" the audience, but the reason it suceeded is because of the storytelling behind it. Everything from episode 2 was building up to the idea of humans fighting back the titans, specially Eren. It created this expectation that the show would use a shounen formula of protagonist training to be better and overcoming his enemies just by having a strong will to do it. Not only thoses deaths completely destroy the idea of "power of will", it questions the viewer if humanity can defeat the titans by itself. Most of the deaths on SNK has a purpose on the story, and even the ones that doesn't, are a natural consequence of some story event. And I may be getting the wrong idea, but by reading your comment, your opinion on death is that it could only work properly if it is used on a really developed character in order to create an emotional response on the viewer. Although it is a one of the best way of using it, I completely disagree with the idea of being the only way of doing it correctly No I'm disagreeing with your comparison with you saying you didn't feel any tension from KNY just because you didn't think anything bad could happen to the characters while at the same time being obviously biased to SNK despite using the same tropes. If I really wanna dig that hard, I can pretty much say the same thing about the irrelevant side character deaths in KNY. |
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| When there’s long action anime with no one dying it sometimes feels like there is no real risk and that makes the stories a little stale. |
Dull_Lull said: thiago52192 said: I don't think I use the term or even the idea of "shock factor" in my comment, so stating that I've implied S1 didn't used death for shock factor is wrong. The word I used was execution. And I do belive S1 did that really well. One example of deaths of "side characters we literally don't care about" done right is ep. 5. The death of the entire squad was definitely aiming to "shock" the audience, but the reason it suceeded is because of the storytelling behind it. Everything from episode 2 was building up to the idea of humans fighting back the titans, specially Eren. It created this expectation that the show would use a shounen formula of protagonist training to be better and overcoming his enemies just by having a strong will to do it. Not only thoses deaths completely destroy the idea of "power of will", it questions the viewer if humanity can defeat the titans by itself. Most of the deaths on SNK has a purpose on the story, and even the ones that doesn't, are a natural consequence of some story event. And I may be getting the wrong idea, but by reading your comment, your opinion on death is that it could only work properly if it is used on a really developed character in order to create an emotional response on the viewer. Although it is a one of the best way of using it, I completely disagree with the idea of being the only way of doing it correctly No I'm disagreeing with your comparison with you saying you didn't feel any tension from KNY just because you didn't think anything bad could happen to the characters while at the same time being obviously biased to SNK despite using the same tropes. If I really wanna dig that hard, I can pretty much say the same thing about the irrelevant side character deaths in KNY. Same tropes? The few deaths KNY has doesn't create consequence on the characters or the story, it's there just to say Onis are bad. And the Onis deaths try to get an emotional response on the viewer by throwing a short and cliche backstory to the Oni at the last second. In another words, they were bad executed. If you took out the deaths on the first episode, nothing major has happened to the characters or the story throughout the 26 episodes. And as I mention in my previous comment, that's the opposite of what happened on SNK. Comparing the deaths from KNY and SNK doesn't make any sense. |
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| Of course i don't want characters i like to die, but i don't want even more an half-assed reasoning as to why character X survived that given situation, and that's the problem with people wanting more deaths: Unreasonable plot armors |
thiago52192 said: Dull_Lull said: No I'm disagreeing with your comparison with you saying you didn't feel any tension from KNY just because you didn't think anything bad could happen to the characters while at the same time being obviously biased to SNK despite using the same tropes. If I really wanna dig that hard, I can pretty much say the same thing about the irrelevant side character deaths in KNY. Same tropes? The few deaths KNY has doesn't create consequence on the characters or the story, it's there just to say Onis are bad. And the Onis deaths try to get an emotional response on the viewer by throwing a short and cliche backstory to the Oni at the last second. In another words, they were bad executed. If you took out the deaths on the first episode, nothing major has happened to the characters or the story throughout the 26 episodes. And as I mention in my previous comment, that's the opposite of what happened on SNK. Comparing the deaths from KNY and SNK doesn't make any sense. And neither does the irrelevant deaths in SNK. Side characters dying to show how ruthless the titans are? Please... we all know nothing bad was gonna happen to any of the mcs in the 1st season. What consequences? The deaths there were as superficial as your regular shounen without impacting anything in the grand scheme of things. If I really wanna get pretentious and dig that deep into KNY then the deaths at the first episode served its purpose to propel the plot into the next arc where the viewers are shown an optimistic training arc only to be shown in that they must survive getting hounded by a bunch of demons at night. The fight at the mountains alone had a lot of stakes in it. |
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