Juuni Taisen Episode 11 Discussion

CT_BINO said:


Yeah... like asking a girl to go on a date 100 times and she declines every single time.

GangsterCat said:
or go to casino and win games

FMmatron said:
Already thought that Rat would be winner of the Juuni Taisen,but holy crap, I wasn't expecting him to have an ability which let's him simulate many different routes.

Usagi looked insane..

staranise said:


Nezumi's ability doesn't let him simulate many different routes. He actually experiences all 100 probabilities at the same time and choose 1 he wants to become reality. They don't just happen in his head, he actually experiences them that's why he's too tired all the time.

FMmatron said:


Thanks for the clarification,I may rewatch that part about his ability.

TsundeReaper said:
I really thought Rat's ability is spacial manipulation since he sneak in and out in Horse's hiding place, don't see how precognition allows him to do that


Anyway he's very OP, his ability I mean, don't get why people saying he's actually weak after this, well he is weak physically and in CQC but overall OP with an OP ability

I think they're planning on reviving the others? I guess coz nothing seems impossible for the organizers

m-i-c-h-a-e-l said:
However, this somewhat-predictable ending was surprisingly well written. They actually gave a satisfactory answer to why Nezumi was doing nothing this entire time. He has the ability to see the future along 100 different routes; so as the weakest warrior, it made sense to sit back and wait it out until the end to act.

staranise said:
Nezumi doesn't have the ability to see the future. He creates and experiences 100 probabilities all at the same time and choose he wants to turn into reality.

KuroYume-96 said:
despite them not giving Ox's backstory (which was disappointing as hell), I loved the episode

really wonder what will happen in the final episode, since this week's episode was where the light novel ended as well

Kannei said:


usagi didnt got any either :(

StrikeyTheFox said:

my only quarrel with his power is it seems to be capped and then not indiscriminately. I'm curious at what point did he start this 100 path journey? why not start the path prior and ensure one path where he didn't go into the war at all.

Also the scene with horse appears slightly suspicious as it almost seemed to be portrayed that he could jump from timeline to timeline. but thinking back on it, that game he played well he was talking seemed to foreshadow a little more than I thought :D

m-i-c-h-a-e-l said:
same thing, different mechanics

staranise said:


Usagi doesn't have a backstory in the novel so that's to be expected. Ox had one in the novel but wasn't included in the anime.

staranise said:


It wasn't presented properly in the anime so I understand the confusion. Since Nezumi's ability was already shown and since the anime have actually reached the end of the novel (almost, just left off one paragraph), I guess this isn't a spoiler anymore. In the novel, it's explained as:

'Tsugiyoshi is a soldier and a high school student. His most prominent ability in battle, the Hundred Paths of Nezumi-san, allows him to tamper with the realm of probability. Tsugiyoshi can carry out a hundred different choices at once, then select which course of events becomes reality. For example, if he were playing rock-paper-scissors, he could throw rock, paper, and scissors at the same time. Should he settle on rock, then reality acts as if he never tried paper or scissors.

If you considered the power as predicting the future one hundred different ways and then selecting one of them, you’d be fairly close, but for two major differences: the predictions are based on actions of his choosing, and he experiences every one.

If time is like a flowchart, he can test one hundred of its forked paths, then choose whichever route he likes the best. This may seem a bit like cheating, but most paths end up being largely similar, and simultaneously experiencing one hundred potential realities comes with a heavy mental burden—in other words, it’s exhausting.

The discarded paths are remembered only by him (with some exceptions), but he doesn’t have perfect recall—one hundred different experiences make for too much to retain completely.

Another major downside is the potential for experiencing a hundred times more failures. He can confess his feelings to a crush in one hundred different ways and be spurned each and every time. (Once, he had to suffer through being dumped one hundred times simultaneously.)

Ultimately, Tsugiyoshi considers his ability not much good for anything except playing rock-paper-scissors—but he was chosen for the Zodiac War despite his young age because he possessed a hundred times more combat experience than typically afforded by the actual number of battles he’d seen. He tried to escape being selected for the Zodiac War, but of the hundred paths, not even one was successful.

His experiences have taught him that there is no one correct path in life, and that even if the concept of truth exists, there’s no one right answer. This learning has given him a distinctly philosophical personality.

The only time he gets excited is when he’s eating cheese—no two cheeses taste the same.'

renanmil said:

Wait... He is experiencing all the realities all the time, or does he experiences the 100 realities only when he activates the ability and it ends when he "lock in"?

StrikeyTheFox said:


And Nezumi doesn't jump from one timeline to another. He experiences all 100 alternate realities at once and chooses one he wants to become actual reality while discarding the others. I feel like a broken record explaining that.

staranise said:


I understand that, and I read your earlier post it's a great explanation. however the part where he appears and disappears well talking to horse a few episode prior is where I'm coming from. it comes across as him entering a timeline where he is inside of the bank, he shows no other hint of feasible escape, but I can chuck that up.

my previous position is those 100 paths aren't clear to the source he is capable of choosing 100 but if they're all following one timestream. so let's add to that explanation you are playing 3 games of rock paper scissor and can follow 3 paths for example sake. you throw all three and rock is the right choice now why would you continue those other two paths on which you already lost instead of creating three new paths locking in on the one you won. yes it's hard to say that he could choose one, but he made it sound like his odds were rough from go. why continue to gamble on a few paths that may work rather than starting 100 new ones. I guess it could be summed up better with 6 paths and two of them you throw rock and win. why would you then only follow two paths when you need two more victories, instead of locking in to one of the winning rock throws and starting 6 paths from that point.

does that make sense?

CT_BINO said:


Yeah... like asking a girl to go on a date 100 times and she declines every single time.

StrikeyTheFox said:


No, sorry, it doesn't make sense. You lost me from 'my previous position...' But I'll try to explain anyway. Let's use the rock-paper-scissors as an example. You said 'why would you continue those other two paths on which you already lost instead of creating three new paths locking in on the one you won.' I'd be honest, I didn't get your point, but Nezumi can throw rock, paper scissors at the same time. If rock is the right choice in which he wins, he discards/deletes the paths where he throws scissors and papers as if they never happened. He doesn't continue along that path, it's already deleted if he locks on to the reality where he throws rock. He can't create new paths once he's locked on to a reality.

Was that what you were trying to figure out?

Editing to add... If in case you were trying to imply that Nezumi can do trial and error or analysis of which path may work, that isn't how he uses his ability. Perhaps he analyzes the probable pros and cons of his next actions but he won't know for certain what would work unless he does it and experiences it. So he won't know if throwing rock will be the winning move unless he does all three - throwing rock, paper and scissors at the same time in alternate realities. Remember, he can't predict, he only has the choice of discarding or deleting the probabilities he's experiencing that isn't to his favor and locking onto the one he wants to become reality. And not all paths or probabilities he creates and experiences work on his favor anyway. Like how he tried 100 different ways to avoid being chosen for the Juuni Taisen and not a single one of those 100 probabilities gave him a chance to escape his fate.

Editing again to add the part about Horse. I'm just going to paste what was in the novel so you can try to interpret it yourself. As written:

'All I can do with my possibilities is scurry around, and if I can’t be perceptive enough to make good of it, then I’m nothing, Rat thought, though with not much sentimentality.

As for Rat’s scurrying, Horse had thought it incredible that the boy had managed to penetrate the barricaded bank vault, but there wasn’t anything incredible about it. Rat simply put his Hundred Paths ability to use.

As Horse himself had been aware, any barricade, no matter how sturdy, was still a product of haste—some gap would exist somewhere. Finding that gap, however, required time. Rat had searched the piled-up debris from one hundred different approaches and found an opening. To put it another way, Rat commanded one hundred searchers to find Horse’s mistake.

And finding the cracks is a rat’s specialty—of my hundred attempts, about ten found an entrance large enough for me to slip through.

This, too, was a stunt of little practical use, and one that counted on someone else making a mistake. In this instance, however, it had allowed him to escape Snake and Monkey’s pursuit.'

StrikeyTheFox said:

okay one more time I understand how his ability work from where you are describing it.

i know it's not trial and error but he's still moving forward with his choice.
so he's playing rock paper scissor but he has THREE ROUNDS TO WIN. if he loses any one of them it's game over.

so he decided to start his six paths beginning the first round. so he throws 2 rock 2 paper 2 scissor. but the correct answer is rock so at this point he knows 4 of those sixth paths are now a dead end. -metaphor for him dying in various ways-

now he hasn't played the second hand.
what youre saying is he can't lock in to a scenario in which he won and now venture again with six completely new paths? 2 in which he throws scissor, rock and paper again. why would he play out the 4 scenarios in which he already lost and gamble on the two that won. all 6 paths are occurring simultaneously so he at least knows if he won/lost round one prior to beginning round 2. round two scissors wins so now you have scissor path A, and scissor path B. both are victorious now not only in round one but round two and he didn't risk running out of options and can do it again for round three etc.

if he doesn't stop after round one and reevaluate the six paths he goes into round two with only two possible outcomes. he can only throw variations of two 1. rock, 2. paper or 3. scissor ie: (1,2), (1,3) (2,3). and then by round three if one of his ventures is succesful. he only has the one path remaining and thus can only have one chance at the right answer.

it's not so much an argument of what happend. but more of a venture of how deep the rabbit hole goes.

staranise said:


Okay. Let's try again. I still don't get your point. Your explanation is confusing. But my explanation earlier applies only to one round of a rock-paper-scissor game. Let's imagine he has to go through 3 rounds of rock-paper-scissors against, say, Rabbit. Round 1, he creates 3 different paths where he throws rock in one path, scissors in another, and paper in the 3rd path. Rabbit throws a scissor in round 1 in all paths, so Rat realizes he needs to throw rock to win, and discards the paths where he throws a scissor and a paper, and locks onto the path where he throws a rock, so round 1 win goes to him. For the 2nd round, he can create another sets of paths and does it all over, this time with Rabbit throwing paper, so Rat discards the paths where he throws rock and paper and locks onto the reality where he throws scissors to win round 2. And so on.

I kind of don't get why he can only throw variations for the succeeding rounds when he won't know what Rabbit will throw in the next rounds, but if you're asking if he can use his ability per scenario, in the case of the rock-paper-scissor example, per round, yes, he might be able to because that's what he did while being interrogated by Duodecuple, like he's using his Hundred Path ability for every question asked.

StrikeyTheFox said:

so we're on the same page that's good, but my question is:

how many times did he lock in during the entire series. when he talked to Duodecuple he made it sound like he started the entire thing with 100 path and this was the only scenario in which he won. But based on what you're saying he used his ability during the war. so at what points did he cease using other paths to reapply his ability. he explains that he "hit it off with rabbit" in one scenario. but he couldn't have known he was on the successful path, until it was the only option.