PandoraHearts
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| Ah yes, it's true, "...you want to use Alice?" could've been said by either Glen or Jack, or anyone really. But I dunno, for now it makes the most sense to me that Jack would say it, especially if it was said during the same scene as Glen's explanation of the Will (though it theoretically could've been from another scene). I mean, that whole explanation by Glen was about the necessity of gaining control of the Will by the Baskervilles, and their only tangible link to it is Alice, so why wouldn't they try to use her somehow? That's what Revis was trying to do in the first place when he impregnated Lacie. There's also Vincent saying that Jack wanted to save Alice. Of course, Jack was trying to use Alice to get to Alyss too, and it would've been life-threatening for Alice because her human body can't handle the Will's energy for long... So not sure yet whether Vincent was mistaken, was lied to, or whether Jack wanted to "save" Alyss... meaning The Will, from Glen from wanting to destroy her or acquire her power. And he's have a motive to save Alyss, since he needed her for his plans for Lacie. But how would Vincent know anything about Alyss? He was awfully surprised to see White Alice, so he might not have known about this aspect. But if Jack did tell Vincent about his concerns regarding the Will, and if he was honest about it, he'd probably call her Alice and not make a distinction, so Vincent would've thought Jack's talking about human Alice. This theory is kinda convoluted, I know, and probably wrong, haha. I'm just still hoping there's some kind of interesting moral conflict left and that Glen isn't some innocent victim. That he had his own plans. What I'd like to see Jun elaborate on is this page, where Jack asks Glen "What is your real objective? To restore what the Baskervilles term the 'Order of the Abyss'? Or to rule over the world by making the Intention of the Abyss yours?" (Yen Press translation). Glen asks Jack what he's trying to say, and when Jack mentions Lacie, Glen snaps and tells Jack to not involve himself in "this" any further. It makes me think Jack was trying to save Alyss from whatever Glen's plans were for the Will. Sure he was probably trying to save her in order to achieve his own plans about Lacie, but still trying to save her nonetheless. And who knows what the Baskervilles would want to do with the Will's power? I don't think any family or any one person with worldly interests can be trusted with it. So yeah, I think there's more twists to come. GLeo has a pretty creepy vibe this chapter, so maybe there's something we don't know yet. Though, of course, he had every reason to tell Gil to shoot Oz in order to cripple Jack's presence in the human world. |
Neiru2012 said: This theory is kinda convoluted, I know, and probably wrong, haha. I'm just still hoping there's some kind of interesting moral conflict left and that Glen isn't some innocent victim. That he had his own plans. What I'd like to see Jun elaborate on is this page, where Jack asks Glen "What is your real objective? To restore what the Baskervilles term the 'Order of the Abyss'? Or to rule over the world by making the Intention of the Abyss yours?" (Yen Press translation). Glen asks Jack what he's trying to say, and when Jack mentions Lacie, Glen snaps and tells Jack to not involve himself in "this" any further. And plus in that same chapter you mention, after Glen saying he does not want Jack to involve himself further, he makes a creepy smile that kinda resembles the smile he did in this chapter. Definitely Glen has a secret surrounding him. I didnt like his tone when he said that he is still the only master of Gil. Also in that same page, we see Jack crying. We know from this scene in several flashbacks that the only one who cries is Jack (We never saw Glen crying), and next page we see Little Gil wounded in the floor at Jack´s side, while Jack apologizes. On next pages we see Glen calling for Lacie with a bloodied sword but the quotes are from Jack " A world without you etc". So...is it a fake memory and the one who was with Gil on the floor was Glen? But then, we never saw Glen crying and we know Gil fell at Jack´s side and Jack was on the right side while Glen was on the left, so their positions did not change. It makes sense to me that it was a memory not altered by Jack...but then why was Jack the one beside Gil and not Glen who was his master? Jack mentions Lacie to Glen and he flips out, and immediately followed by another flashback in next page about Jack vs Glen aftermath, and although we see there written Jack´s quotes about Lacie, it is Glen who calls Lacie, and it is Jack who is on the floor crying near Gil (I cannot imagine Glen crying, but then I might be wrong and probably it was Glen and that memory was faked by Jack).Anyway, I have the feeling there´s something going on between Glen x Lacie for sure. Im waiting for Glen big revelation. And certainly a final Jack x Glen moment will be great. |
ワンダーランド花 ♥ |
| I knew that this mindfuck will be coming for us sooner or later . The atuhor is a pro in mindraping the readers . Good job author !! And noooo Oz T____T don't kill off my favorite character . Well , but I don't think he's dead . |
| Actually glad that nepal is facing disaster |
| WTF what an amazing chapter ;__; Can someone explain me how Jack disappeared after saying to Oz that stuff? I didn't get it... :X |
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| wow. just wow. so many questions i wanted answered and FINALLY!! but i dont even remember how leo got there. i have to go back and reread what lead up to this arc. the flashbacks have been confusing as far as time in the present goes. and alice is such a BADASS, i loved her before but holy shit! and can someone please throw oz a freaking bone here? this is so painful. like. wtf gil. come on |
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| I love this chapter despite the fact that I was wrong on who killed Alice, I for one From the begining it was either Jack,or Glen let's face it they both want Lacie back. Suspected Vince but didn't wage him in. But does it count when Jack forces Alice to switch the Abyss Alice? I say he killed her for the sake of switching and made her cry to kill herself or did Alice really did kill herself from Jack using her sister? It was a weired choice but I think it was the only way out....Jack changed things forever. |
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RosyXkid said: But does it count when Jack forces Alice to switch the Abyss Alice? I say he killed her for the sake of switching and made her cry to kill herself or did Alice really did kill herself from Jack using her sister? Alice killed herself to prevent W. Alice from coming to this world since she'd help Jack by either destroying Glen's chains or giving more power to Oz since she didn't know what Jack had planned. So she basically wanted to protect Oz, she didn't want him to kill anyone anymore. Not sure if Alice wanted to protect W. Alice, though. |
| IDK, now-a-days, every time I finish a chapter of Pandora Hearts and I see "end of chapter" I end up looking at the computer screen and thinking, saying, and/or silently screaming "WHAT THE FUCK?!" Am I the only who gets extremely confused during these chapters? I can't keep up with the characters anymore. I think I'm going to have to re-read the series from the begining. But, seriously, am I the only one who does.not.understand. what happens when I read the recent chapters? There are so many quick changes from past to present, memories, inside minds, inside the abyss, and all these quick settings and stuff, that I have some serious trouble reading and understanding. -___- And don't say it's because I'm dumb or something. Am I the only one? urghhhh What I understand-ish: Oz is in some type of inner-problem inside himself and is a chain and Jack is possessing him (or whatever) and Jack is like, "I'm gonna destroy the earth to bring back lacie muahahaha yadadadada" Then a million different flashbacks and some type of inner battle between inner Alice and Jack who is inside Oz (WHERE ARE THEY?!) and they fight and Lacie is trying to come back and Alice is like "no way, he'll destroy and kill and chains will break" and then I wasn't sure if the chains that were breaking were just from the flashback or were from the flashback AND the present. Oh and maybe it was actually a memory of Alice and Jack instead of inner Alice and Jack inside Oz. And then Alice kills herself but Alice doesn't know why she sort of doesn't exist. And then Gil shoots Oz and some guy is like "muahahaha you must listen to ME" and the other Gilbert, I forgot his name, the guy who knew Jack and Lacie, he's in the background... or a memory... or is the inner (I think his name is Leo(?)) guy who was all "Gil must listen to me." Am I close? I still don't get it though. Like, what part was in what world/memory, who is Leo (is he the guy with glasses who went crazy or something), and... JUST WHAT IS GOING ON?! =____= *slowly dying* someone please explain, i really want to like Pandora Hearts because it's really interesting, but sometimes I just can't keep up with the quick changes, the many settings, characters, and get confused on the implied parts... Well anyway... sorry for writing so much. |
FiflyAnimeLover said: What I understand-ish: Oz is in some type of inner-problem inside himself and is a chain and Jack is possessing him (or whatever) and Jack is like, "I'm gonna destroy the earth to bring back lacie muahahaha yadadadada" Then a million different flashbacks and some type of inner battle between inner Alice and Jack who is inside Oz (WHERE ARE THEY?!) and they fight and Lacie is trying to come back and Alice is like "no way, he'll destroy and kill and chains will break" and then I wasn't sure if the chains that were breaking were just from the flashback or were from the flashback AND the present. Oh and maybe it was actually a memory of Alice and Jack instead of inner Alice and Jack inside Oz. And then Alice kills herself but Alice doesn't know why she sort of doesn't exist. And then Gil shoots Oz and some guy is like "muahahaha you must listen to ME" and the other Gilbert, I forgot his name, the guy who knew Jack and Lacie, he's in the background... or a memory... or is the inner (I think his name is Leo(?)) guy who was all "Gil must listen to me." First, Jack wants to destroy the chains surrounding the world in order to make the world fall into the abyss.
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| There is just one thing I don't understand, why Jack wants to send the whole world/country to the abyss, why doesn't just go he himself? (I don't know if that question is well redacted) I mean, HE's the one who wants to see Lacie, be with her and all that, he doesn't have to send a whole city/country/world, for that xd |
 ヽ(*ﾟдﾟ)ノ My virtual covers: http://youtu.be/HhhSjhBMY2A http://youtu.be/3Qu6_ov-r4Y http://youtu.be/k20A5LQPJfQ |
| That's 'cause once Lacie said that, even though she had experienced bad things in the world by being a misfortune child, she loved the world. And since she was sacrificed to the abyss, Jack feels that if he makes the whole world fall into there, she'll be extremely happy. She won't be alone anymore, that's why. ;u ; That was never said directly to Jack, but he saw Lacie's memories through B-Rabbit's stuffed doll and came to understand her feelings. Here is the panel where she said it. |
| Great chapter. I thought Gil would end up saving the day.. but he ended up shooting Oz because of Glen. |
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eien_kiseki said: although i am sorta confused with white alice and black alice x_x So... i thought Oz (the doll) was with white alice in abyss... then how come black alice holds Oz dear too? If Oz was originally with black alice and wasnt in the abyss, how could he have so much power to be considered the most powerful chain? Oz originally had two bodies, one in the abyss and one that B. Alice brought with her when she came out of the abyss. However, he only had one soul, so he had to switch places everytime between the abyss and the real world. B. Alice was way closer to Oz, as you can see that she was the one who gave him a name and somehow showed him the human feelings. He loved her and Alice loved him as well. W. Alice was always sad and tired as you can see in the latest chapters, she was always sleeping. She only got to be happy when Jack appeared and started talking to her. You didn't get to see her playing with Oz at all. So, when W. Alice asked Oz to pass Lacie's memories to Jack, he lost the body he had in the real world, so B. Alice probably got really sad 'cause she could now only get to see him when she switched places with W. Alice. Then she would see him in the abyss. That's why you see the little memory of Alice saying that Oz was her's and her sister's, but she was the one who owned him because she loved him more, she gave him feelings and a name (Oz was extremely happy when he got a name, he was happy that he had life because of Lacie, but only when he received a name was when he started to understand the world better). Once W. Alice transformed Oz (the one who still was in the abyss) into a chain, he disappeared as a stuffed doll. Now why he's considered the most powerful chain, I don't know. Maybe because W. Alice put all her feelings into transforming him; or because he himself had feelings; or because his will to protect Alice was really strong. |
| It was amazing, 5/5 ! And wow, the end ! Gil, why did you shoot Oz ?! I was so moved when he apologized... On the other hand, I'm glad about that new twist. I can't wait to see what will be the consequence of their relationship... Please, not something too sad ! Roaar, Jack is so mean toward the poor Oz ! I cannot imagine what I would feel if I was him... |
 We are not connected by light but darkness instead. |
| I this read things yesterday. I personal feel jack away been true to his nature. Him hurting Oz and trying end world. Jack does not care about anyone and not even himself, only person he ever care for was Lacie. I also feel this world mess up in more way then one. So Vessalius family has each generation child of misfortune is force in to the abyss this because they has power destroy the world and then other has power hold world together with the 5 chains become the head. They said misfortune may come off side effect to having person, who can hold 5 chains. Plus why we need new Glen after so long is maybe, human body not made hold 5 chains. Then we could also now say that Glen is tile and not a person or is mind of 5 chains together. I think when you become Glen after you had 5 chains inside and you this come understand some memory and knowledge that past Glen had and what 5 chains know. But this getting be only some of knowledge because it was obvious that Oswald Glen did not know all thing the Glen before him knew. I think that each Glen has teach new one before they die and other become new Glen. This was why Oswald was old Glen body guard. Plus old Glen or Revis still around a bit in till his body die from having five chains inside of him. I also question need of Glen he suppose be reason the that 4 family can control the abyss. Is he around so human can have power over both worlds or is keep world from falling apart, but chains were all ready there. Maybe this sick cycle came form human greed or maybe 5 chains together have power guard door between the abyss and the world. It fucking sick and wrong what Vessalius family did Lacie. I love Alice more and I think she'll going to go insane at Gil for shooting Oz. Gil may not want do on purpose but he still has issue that he fucking hate Jack for his betrayal. I don't thing it was this Glen Oswald order that this did it. Also I'm curious to Oz, he said "It was before the Abyss became the dark place it is now." So what was abyss before it was became dark. I think there more to core abyss wants, then this see jack. Why maybe abyss become so twisted because because of all child misfortune that been push into and plus the people who made contract with chains. Glen said they become part of abyss. Thanks chains like Cheshire cat and Oz. I think there more to them and the 5 chains themselves. Then being a thoughtless monster. There may be a will to 5 chains. Maybe most chains that were human this wish return this world where they were human. And this why most chains try come to our world, but chains like Oz, Cheshire, and 5 chains may want something else. Like with Oz want Alice to be happy and maybe 5 chains may want world and abyss to remain separate. Or maybe the will of abyss and chains that were not human, wish return abyss to original state. Having world fall into abyss may help this wish or at least stop creating more the tormented soul of humans that fall into abyss making more dark. I also believe chains like Oz were not original human but with human becoming part of the abyss, it give more of consciousness to inhuman based chains and will of abyss. I love Oz and want hurt everyone but Alice because they fucking using him one way or another. It wrong and they purpose let him believe he was human. I also want know what deal that will of abyss made with Xerxes. Maybe it was protect Oz. He away help Oz. I wonder will of abyss this Lacie and Oz is real core of abyss? |
SamManJul 11, 2012 1:35 PM
| This hurts </3 |
 - barely alive - |
| Oh wow, I'm speechless after reading this chapter. |
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| I have no idea what to say...this chapter was just...yeah. |
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| So that's what actually happened to Alice ;-; Poor Oz has been through a lot too, think he should be fine though. Jack really wants to see the world burn, I get it it was all for Lacie but that's taking things way too far, hope he gets a good beating soon >_> It's sure been a while since I last saw Leo lol. |
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| Alice crying was not a nice thing to see :c Jack must pay for this This is becoming one of the best manga i've ever read so far so fucking amazing i didn't even finished and already want to read again |
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| Not only was I speechless, I actually shed a tear on this chapter. Goddamn. Alice's suicide, Glen's way of saving people of Baskerville, Jack's evilness. This series deserves a lot more praise. |
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| I wanna beat Jack to death because of the way he treats Oz, except well he's dead already, but he really deserves to pay for all this. So, Alice killed herself. I actually had some suspicions for a while but that such a powerful scene and the fact that she did it to protect Oz. I was so happy to see Gil protect Oz when within seconds he shot him by Glen's orders. That last scene was heartbreaking. |
  I want to know what it is, this 'sin' they say I've committed. |
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