let us see the reviewer's score without having to click 'Read More' + get rid of preliminary reviews on the main page
| let us see the reviewer's score without having to click 'Read More'. dunno why y'all would make a change like that. also have no idea why you would introduce preliminary reviews on the main page. new review system looks terrible. |
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| And bring back the unhelpful/dislike button. |
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| I actually think this is a good change since people would just look at the reviewer's score instead of reading it. Most people don't even read the reviews but just look at the score and vote helpful if they agree with it or complain on the forums if they don't, without actually reading what the person reviewing had to say. This should at least somehwhat compel people to read. |
| Yeah, preliminary reviews back to main page is just dumb decision. Tsarko said: I actually think this is a good change since people would just look at the reviewer's score instead of reading it. Most people don't even read the reviews but just look at the score and vote helpful if they agree with it or complain on the forums if they don't, without actually reading what the person reviewing had to say. This should at least somehwhat compel people to read. So now those people that did this will instead d the same but based on the review being either Recommended or Not Recommended, still not reading the review. The update just made it harder for people more accurately see whether the anime is worth watching or not. |
You all need to watch Nami. |
| Iunno why prelim made it back lmao. Who thought this? |
ACasualViewer said: Tsarko said: I actually think this is a good change since people would just look at the reviewer's score instead of reading it. Most people don't even read the reviews but just look at the score and vote helpful if they agree with it or complain on the forums if they don't, without actually reading what the person reviewing had to say. This should at least somehwhat compel people to read. This was intentional design, yes, we wanted people to stop caring about a review score and actually read the review content. NextUniverse said: Iunno why prelim made it back lmao. Who thought this? You can filter out preliminaries with a single click. "on the main page" |
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ACasualViewer said: NextUniverse said: Iunno why prelim made it back lmao. Who thought this? You can filter out preliminaries with a single click. I think it's better to filter out preliminaries by default (for completed anime), just like the spoilers. An example would be this: https://myanimelist.net/anime/45576/Mushoku_Tensei__Isekai_Ittara_Honki_Dasu_Part_2 It's already a completed anime (almost a year ago), but 2 of 3 displayed reviews are preliminaries. |
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| i say let MAL change the scores too to reaction emojis so no more fighting over rankings and vote brigading lol |
ACasualViewer said: This was intentional design, yes, we wanted people to stop caring about a review score and actually read the review content. Well that's actually understandable although I don't agree with it. What motivates me to read a review is if the opening is well-constructed, and not some pretentious garbage, then I know the review is reliable. It was also useful to quickly glance at the scores and average out the reviewer scores in my head to get a more accurate expectation score for the anime. |
Shishio-kunAug 1, 2022 7:40 AM
ACasualViewer said: Shishio-kun said: Well that's actually understandable although I don't agree with it. What motivates me to read a review is if the opening is well-constructed, and not some pretentious garbage, then I know the review is reliable. It was also useful to average out the reviewer scores in my head to get a more accurate score. I recommend making your own thread with the listed QoL improvements you would like to see, we will take it into consideration, this is still a work in progress. As for averages, unless you're running a python script to query all the reviews on a page for the more popular anime, it's unlikely you will ever get a realistic average. I think at some point we will add a critics score but not anytime soon (like this year its probably not happening). Oh, let me clarify please, see actually in my experience, I can look at scores of a handful of most helpful reviews, or the scores of the obviously better written reviews heh, and I can quickly look at them and average them out in my head and there will be a more accurate OVERALL score that almost always matches my initial experience + animation and story quality + % of enjoyment/% of peak enjoyment (basically the good rewatchable parts, how good they are and how much there is). I've relied on that for forever before watching something, sometimes I call it the expectation score. A little under ten reviews you'd use at the most. So with one anime I've rewatched often lately I look at the most helpful reviews just now, and I can average them out to about 8 and actually with a calculator using the real mean I got a very close number to that (like 7.7). And that's about where it would be it for me in terms of the overall score when I first saw it and even now. Reviewers also gave it 10s and a 4 which is way too extreme imo * tho with my own ratings, I'm thinking to weigh both the enjoyment percentages a lot higher, which could and sometimes is inflating my own list scores above their what I feel their overall score is imo, cuz an anime with good replayable scenes, especially a lot, is pretty damn exceptional and I think more recommendable for that reason, as I do a lot of rewatching. So % of enjoyment/% of peak enjoyment seems to be really what matters most by a large margin and I'm thinking should influence scores the most... at least I think that way after watching anime for like 30+ years lol. Yeah I was thinking a critics score MIGHT work, like Rotten Tomatoes has but good, al;though then ppl can just bomb it maybe....? It's honestly not that important tho, it's just kind of a useful expectation buffer. Might be important if others use that to determine if something is watchable, but I kinda doubt they do. I've already made up in my mind whether to see something before seeing scores. |
Shishio-kunAug 1, 2022 8:20 AM
ACasualViewer said: So now people will only care about recommended/not recommended without actally reading the review content. At the cost of inconvenience to users, nothing was solved. Good intentions, not a good result.This was intentional design, yes, we wanted people to stop caring about a review score and actually read the review content. ACasualViewer said: Not on main page. Preliminary reviews on the top page is not a good idea. At this point it might be better to just remove the reviews from the main page completely, only leaving them in their tab.You can filter out preliminaries with a single click. |
| You all need to watch Nami. |
ACasualViewer said: I've already made a separate post on this whole debacle with my reasoning.We will take into account the preliminary on the front page thing, but you need to write these out as separate threads and explain your reasoning, that's the best way to reach us with your suggestions. ACasualViewer said: Wait, in that case the scores were actually promoting reading the rewiews more than the recommend/not recommend. As previously you'd have to actually read the review to understand what the score means for the reviewer while now you don't have to read it at all, you can see the reviewer's stance right at the start, no need to read further explanation. That's a bit contraproductive I'd say.Even if that's what they care about, it's a better filter for users than a score which can mean different things for different users. I don't recommend 5s at all, other users might be mixed on a 5. |
| You all need to watch Nami. |
ACasualViewer said: abystoma2 said: So now people will only care about recommended/not recommended without actally reading the review content. At the cost of inconvenience to users, nothing was solved. Good intentions, not a good result. Not on main page. Preliminary reviews on the top page is not a good idea. At this point it might be better to just remove the reviews from the main page completely, only leaving them in their tab. We will take into account the preliminary on the front page thing, but you need to write these out as separate threads and explain your reasoning, that's the best way to reach us with your suggestions. "So now people will only care about recommended/not recommended without actally reading the review content. At the cost of inconvenience to users, nothing was solved. Good intentions, not a good result." Even if that's what they care about, it's a better filter for users than a score which can mean different things for different users. I don't recommend 5s at all, other users might be mixed on a 5. Reccomended/Mixed Feelings/Not Recommended is just as vague of a metric as the 1-10 system, while having just 3 points to give an impression instead of 10. |
ACasualViewer said: It might lead to less people caring about reviews at all. (Personalyl I already prefer recommendations a lot over reviews. Sometimes I read a review. Not I might not read them at all.) If people care about the score and they will have it harder to see it ... then they won't just act like you want it. You are not their parents/teacher - won't get them to change their behaviour by trying to force annoying things upon them.This was intentional design, yes, we wanted people to stop caring about a review score and actually read the review content. They might just stop to care about reviews. (Or use other sites for this.) The communicatio here seems to have been pretty bad. I remember some other stuff where people had been asked before. Here this changes seems to have happened pretty sudden. Also there is not even a thread in the announcement/updates forum. (Might get created later ... but imo those should get created before the update happens.) At the moment I have no clue how the 3 main reviews on the anime page get chosen. (It should be made sure that some where the reviewer gave lower scores appear there - without having to manually check. To avoid bias and only have fans of the anime have their review boosted by other fans - for favorite anime. Or the other way round with controversial anime have reviewers that gave a bad score have their review boosted. If the most voted ones still are at top this at least will be problem for older stuff ... while for newer stuff you can hope that the people that vote reviews will look less at the score.) I'd rather have the option to hide reviews on the anime page. Would be more useful. :D (Like for the "panel" in the settings - the main page when opening MAL - we have opions to hide certain stuff and to manage how the different areas are sorted.) What does the "recommended" / "mixed feelings" and "not recommendet" mean? Do reviewers set this manually? I guess this just takes score into account ... even showing "mixed feelings" when someoen scores 5 which is bad for most people. Totally a mess here ... Glad the "recommendations" still exist. The one thing that always have been at least 10 times more useful than reviews. And now it will be even better compared to reviews since reviews got made worse ... |
ACasualViewer said: abystoma2 said: So now people will only care about recommended/not recommended without actally reading the review content. At the cost of inconvenience to users, nothing was solved. Good intentions, not a good result. Not on main page. Preliminary reviews on the top page is not a good idea. At this point it might be better to just remove the reviews from the main page completely, only leaving them in their tab. We will take into account the preliminary on the front page thing, but you need to write these out as separate threads and explain your reasoning, that's the best way to reach us with your suggestions. "So now people will only care about recommended/not recommended without actally reading the review content. At the cost of inconvenience to users, nothing was solved. Good intentions, not a good result." Even if that's what they care about, it's a better filter for users than a score which can mean different things for different users. I don't recommend 5s at all, other users might be mixed on a 5. I think that it is a good change btw It is just that people fail to understand that scores are absolutely personal. The site will need a time to adjust to that change, but any change that entice reading instead of simply skimming through scores is a change for good. I'm curious about the suggested algorithm though, I suppose that it will stay secret but why did it vanish that many reviews from the frontpage? Luthandorius said: What does the "recommended" / "mixed feelings" and "not recommendet" mean? Do reviewers set this manually? I guess this just takes score into account ... even showing "mixed feelings" when someoen scores 5 which is bad for most people. . I like that you have enough curiosity to ask this question and not enough curiosity to look for yourself. You have to select the Recommended and Not Recommended stuff, you can Recommend a 1/10 anime |
ACasualViewer said: Someone seeing the word recommended and being satisfied without reading why seems far fetched, note that blindly upvoting reviews will do nothing for placement as of this update. About as far-fetched as being satisfied with a review (=upvoting it) without reading said review. How so? Have you implemented some sort of measure that checks if the review was actually read? Is it based on a time spent on the page before clicking the emoji? Or is the AI straigh out omniscient? ACasualViewer said: Not sure what you mean by vague? 7/10 and 10/10 are both "recommended" It's vague because it doesn't differentiate between "it's good" and "it's amazing", or between "it's bad" and "it's absolutely awful". Gween_Gween said: Yeah so is the "recommend/not recommend" judgement. So?I think that it is a good change btw It is just that people fail to understand that scores are absolutely personal. |
| You all need to watch Nami. |
ACasualViewer said: abystoma2 said: I've already made a separate post on this whole debacle with my reasoning. Wait, in that case the scores were actually promoting reading the rewiews more than the recommend/not recommend. As previously you'd have to actually read the review to understand what the score means for the reviewer while now you don't have to read it at all, you can see the reviewer's stance right at the start, no need to read further explanation. That's a bit contraproductive I'd say. Someone seeing the word recommended and being satisfied without reading why seems far fetched, note that blindly upvoting reviews will do nothing for placement as of this update. L01MK said: Reccomended/Mixed Feelings/Not Recommended is just as vague of a metric as the 1-10 system, while having just 3 points to give an impression instead of 10. Not sure what you mean by vague? Recommended = go watch this Mixed = I am not sure if its my cup of tea but there's some merits Not recommended = Don't watch this To quote you: "I don't recommend 5s at all, other users might be mixed on a 5." You basically state here that a "not recommended" and a "mixed" mean different things to different people, even though they relate to the same score. Which means you end up with the exact same problem as the scoring system, while being "less accurate", since there are 3 possible grades instead of 10 |
abystoma2 said: It's vague because it doesn't differentiate between "it's good" and "it's amazing", or between "it's bad" and "it's absolutely awful". Gween_Gween said: Yeah so is the "recommend/not recommend" judgement. So?I think that it is a good change btw It is just that people fail to understand that scores are absolutely personal. Cant read between the lines? A 7/10 means different things for different people. For me, a 7/10 is a good score, for someone else, a 7/10 is a mediocre score. Recommended/Mixed Feelings/Not Recommended is a conclusion of your review, it is obviously subjective but convey way more than a number, because it derives from a useful agreement as everyone knows what Recommended and Not Recommended means |
ACasualViewer said: Unless the algorythm doesn't take the score in account at all, surely the upvoting does at least something, no? Like, even now, none of the reviews on the main page are low scored ones.You're misunderstanding the system, the placement is now driven by an algorithm that weighs factors other than score, blindly upvoting means nothing in terms of placement at all. |
| You all need to watch Nami. |
| looks like the complains wants MAL to open up the secret algorithm lol i doubt they will do that or it will be exploited for sure by the suppose reviewers cartel |
Gween_Gween said: abystoma2 said: It's vague because it doesn't differentiate between "it's good" and "it's amazing", or between "it's bad" and "it's absolutely awful". Yeah so is the "recommend/not recommend" judgement. So? Cant read between the lines? A 7/10 means different things for different people. For me, a 7/10 is a good score, for someone else, a 7/10 is a mediocre score. Recommended/Mixed Feelings/Not Recommended is a conclusion of your review, it is obviously subjective but convey way more than a number, because it derives from a useful agreement as everyone knows what Recommended and Not Recommended means Cant read between the lines? A "Recommended" means different things for different people. For me, a Recommended is a 5/10, for someone else, a Recommended is an 8/10 score. 1-10 is a conclusion of your review, it is obviously subjective but conveys way more than a recommendation, because it derives from a useful agreement as everyone knows what an 9/10 and a 3/10 mean. |
Gween_Gween said: Well I considered checking there. But it seemed easier to ask directly. Also I am not posting reviews myself. Only reading them - pretty rarely though. Now I can see that reviewers can use one of the 3 optoins. I do not remember though how the previous system worked. If this did not have such an option yet ... then they would have had to convert the old reviews into the new system. Chosing some one of the 3 options based on the score the reviewer gave maybe.I like that you have enough curiosity to ask this question and not enough curiosity to look for yourself. You have to select the Recommended and Not Recommended stuff, you can Recommend a 1/10 anime |
| WHY MAL WHY? Do we have to live up with your fucked-up standards of making this worse? Is this MAL's version of the Instagram TikTok reel "fusion" that other companies are borrowing similar tried and true methods from other sites? This ain't it, chief. |
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L01MK said: Gween_Gween said: Cant read between the lines? A 7/10 means different things for different people. For me, a 7/10 is a good score, for someone else, a 7/10 is a mediocre score. Recommended/Mixed Feelings/Not Recommended is a conclusion of your review, it is obviously subjective but convey way more than a number, because it derives from a useful agreement as everyone knows what Recommended and Not Recommended means Cant read between the lines? A "Recommended" means different things for different people. For me, a Recommended is a 5/10, for someone else, a Recommended is an 8/10 score. 1-10 is a conclusion of your review, it is obviously subjective but conveys way more than a recommendation, because it derives from a useful agreement as everyone knows what an 9/10 and a 3/10 mean. You think you did something there, right? Nobody is going to Recommend something that they consider shouldnt be watched, or Not Recommend something that they consider should be watched, that is the basics of Rotten Tomatoes metric. A 10/10 is way less tangible than that, two reviews that say practically the same would have different reactions based on how the writer pushes the score. Just to give you a simple example, as you cant imagine the scenario, this was the top preliminary review of AoTS4P2: That review is the epitome of low effort, it is even lying about some aspects of the show, but it is at the top because a 10/10 is a strong statement |
Luthandorius said: Yes, the previous reviews were all automatically converted. Which means that some reviews now have a "conclusion" the reviewer might not even agree with and I doubt everyone will re-check all their reviews to fix this.Gween_Gween said: Well I considered checking there. But it seemed easier to ask directly. Also I am not posting reviews myself. Only reading them - pretty rarely though. Now I can see that reviewers can use one of the 3 optoins. I do not remember though how the previous system worked. If this did not have such an option yet ... then they would have had to convert the old reviews into the new system. Chosing some one of the 3 options based on the score the reviewer gave maybe.I like that you have enough curiosity to ask this question and not enough curiosity to look for yourself. You have to select the Recommended and Not Recommended stuff, you can Recommend a 1/10 anime I already had to edit some of mine because the conversion did not convey my actual conclusion. |
| You all need to watch Nami. |
abystoma2 said: Then at least a ... message to people that wrote reviews - should happen. Notification on the site and an email for everyone that did not disable site/admin emails in their privacy settings. You can't expect everyone to notice the update and reading the update forum regularly (where the thread isn not even yet). Especially if it is people that stopped writing reviews (or do not write them regularly) - they might not notice about this. Even then not thinking about the problems this might have created with older reviews. A "friendly asking" with notification/mail - would be nice here. If possible giving lower priority to people that did not confirm this setting yet - if it still fits after the automatic conversation.Luthandorius said: Yes, the previous reviews were all automatically converted. Which means that some reviews now have a "conclusion" the reviewer might not even agree with and I doubt everyone will re-check all their reviews to fix this.Well I considered checking there. But it seemed easier to ask directly. Also I am not posting reviews myself. Only reading them - pretty rarely though. Now I can see that reviewers can use one of the 3 optoins. I do not remember though how the previous system worked. If this did not have such an option yet ... then they would have had to convert the old reviews into the new system. Chosing some one of the 3 options based on the score the reviewer gave maybe. I already had to edit some of mine because the conversion did not convey my actual conclusion. |
| I dont think the new review system sucks Having the overall score at the bottom is a good thing so that people read the actual content and I love how the fact that you cant filter by most helpful anymore is putting attention-seeking edgy reviewers in agony, no more competing for the top spot by reviewing a seasonal anime after watching two episodes I see lots of people ranting about bringing back the dislike button, but I think the confusing/funny reactions already replace that (although funny doesn't necessarily mean u disagree) but it could be improved more, for example, the emojis are a bit excessive, they could get rid of the "love it" (or keep it and get rid of the "nice") & the "creative" ones, very unnecessary |
| Why not just show the score at the top, so "mixed feelings" - score 6, or something similar. Definitely a step backwards UX wise like a lot of other changes to the site. Also annoying it now only shows 3 reviews. And don't think the emoji reactions are useful at all |
| Objectivity? In my anime scoring? Of course not... |
| For the people who want the score to be back at the top: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=2044881 |
| Better, fix the entire review system altogether |
| To add to this - preliminary review should be kept on main page if there are only 3 or less reviews. Now we have cases when anime or manga finished, but only has preliminary reviews, so the main page shows no reviews at all. Before the update, the preliminary reviews were showed but non-preliminary reviews were given priority so they would show above them. That worked and I have no idea at all why that was changed. |
| You all need to watch Nami. |
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