| The rule which I'm referring to is As a result of continued toxicity surrounding topics which extend current social/moral issues to anime/manga, we will no longer be allowing these discussions in the Anime and Manga Discussion boards. While we certainly do not want to discourage critical thought of the entertainment that we consume as a society, going forward we ask users to take these discussions to other locations, such as clubs, profiles, Discord chats, etc. + 5. Please refrain from posting thread topics which extend beyond the discussion of anime/manga as an entertainment medium to highly-debated social and/or moral issues. This includes but is not limited to: pedophilia, gender/racial equality, sexual orientation, etc. You also blocked Current Events Boards because of toxicity. Now threads are getting boring and repititive. Majority of the threads are flooded with random x and y type threads like, Do you think X anime is amazing? Do you think x is a great protagonist? Which shounen is better out of these? It' is getting annoying. More opinion will be posted later. Updated opinion:Not just rule 5 should be abolished but literally any type of controversial threads should be allowed. If the topic delves into toxicity and insulting and going off topic, then someone can just report it and the said post can be deleted. Just don't lock the whole ass thread please. |
ScordoloSep 7, 2021 9:08 AM
 Scordolo's Recent Reviews To your eternity Vanitas no Karte |
| I agree with you on rule #5 being way too broad. I like debate so the rule is a bit of a nuisance. |
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| weebs have more heated arguments about waifus than pedophilia mods just don't want triggering words to be associated with the site because they don't want to scare advertisers, they don't actually care about ethics or civility |
| now you want to completely remove rule 5 while you are against my suggestion to allow controversial news threads instead which is more limited (so more manageable by the moderators) than abolishing rule 5 altogether lol damn what kind of logic you got https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1950199 |
| I disagree. Locking CE was the best decision MAL has made in years. |
deg said: now you want to completely remove rule 5 while you are against my suggestion to allow controversial news threads instead which is more limited (so more manageable by the moderators) than abolishing rule 5 altogether lol damn what kind of logic you got https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1950199 That was over 2 weeks ago. It's common sense that opinions change overtime. I didn't even remember I posted in your thread before making my thread ffs. |
Scordolo's Recent Reviews To your eternity Vanitas no Karte |
| Heated debates are fine but I think rule 5 holds back a lot of the toxicity that caused CE to be banned, maybe be a bit more lenient with it but don't get rid of it |
 _______I like rocks__  |
Scordolo said: i think your point could be sued against this, the problems aren't the rules but that there are users who are dicks adn start insulting others over having a different opinion, this alredy happen when you are talking about manga and anime, imagine what would happen when you start talking about sexuality or anohter divisive thingdeg said: now you want to completely remove rule 5 while you are against my suggestion to allow controversial news threads instead which is more limited (so more manageable by the moderators) than abolishing rule 5 altogether lol damn what kind of logic you got https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1950199 That was over 2 weeks ago. It's common sense that opinions change overtime. I didn't even remember I posted in your thread before making my thread ffs. |
Scordolo said: deg said: now you want to completely remove rule 5 while you are against my suggestion to allow controversial news threads instead which is more limited (so more manageable by the moderators) than abolishing rule 5 altogether lol damn what kind of logic you got https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1950199 That was over 2 weeks ago. It's common sense that opinions change overtime. I didn't even remember I posted in your thread before making my thread ffs. err ok but really you forgot your post on my thread already huh |
deg said: Scordolo said: That was over 2 weeks ago. It's common sense that opinions change overtime. I didn't even remember I posted in your thread before making my thread ffs. err ok but really you forgot your post on my thread already huh I actually forget most of my comments I make on Youtube and on Mal. When someone replys to my comment on Youtube/Mal I made over 2-3 weeks ago I ask to myself "Did I really comment this"? |
Scordolo's Recent Reviews To your eternity Vanitas no Karte |
Scordolo said: I actually forget most of my comments I make on Youtube and on Mal. When someone replys to my comment on Youtube/Mal I made over 2-3 weeks ago I ask to myself "Did I really comment this"? youre not reliable at all then if you easily forget things, who knows what kind of so called changed opinion you will have few weeks from now about this |
deg said: Scordolo said: I actually forget most of my comments I make on Youtube and on Mal. When someone replys to my comment on Youtube/Mal I made over 2-3 weeks ago I ask to myself "Did I really comment this"? youre not reliable at all then if you easily forget things, who knows what kind of so called changed opinion you will have few weeks from now about this You're just being too serious for the silliest of things. Just take a breather. |
Scordolo's Recent Reviews To your eternity Vanitas no Karte |
Scordolo said: deg said: youre not reliable at all then if you easily forget things, who knows what kind of so called changed opinion you will have few weeks from now about this You're just being too serious for the silliest of things. Just take a breather. so this thread is a silly thing to you heh |
why the strawman argument? I made it pretty clear what was "silly". |
Scordolo's Recent Reviews To your eternity Vanitas no Karte |
its not a strawman when you implied you will forget this thread too weeks later, i will now remember you easily forget things like you did again just now |
deg said: its not a strawman when you implied you will forget this thread too weeks later, i will now remember you easily forget things like you did again just now Okay bruh, I don't care. |
Scordolo's Recent Reviews To your eternity Vanitas no Karte |
| Yeah, I'm pretty ok with rule 5, in fact I'd say I actively support it. I don't want to see those sorts of things being debated when I'm just talking about some anime/manga that I liked, TBH |
My greatest contribution to this website:  |
| I think it's way too broad, the heated and toxic nature of Current Events was a black spot on MAL, and closing it was a great idea, but on other hand, there are many interesting and "healthier" threads about morals or society related problems in anime, a lot of people find it interesting, a lot of people find it an important subject and a lot of people can partake in it without toxicity. So I'd say they should be more lenient and differentiate between a controversial topic and chaos/toxicity, but definitely don't bring back CE or anything like it. |
| I don't speak English that much, so please cut me some slack |
| I personally think it's fine because otherwise every discussion is going to devolve into a case of "Oh you like so & so character and his ideology, you are literally Hitler. Besides it's more of a symbolic rule to encourage intelligent points to be made while discouraging the dumb ones such as "Literally Hitler" rather than completely omitting such discussions, kinda like how in certain countries where while homosexuality is not illegal penetration between 2 men is, a symbolic law that isn't actually enforced or only enforced due to insinuating factors and serves as a good deterrent to discourage such activities. |
| @deg and @Scordolo I don't think this thread is the correct place for your conflict. (Well not like any thread would be the place, please keep it to profile comments or PMs) Rojaseb said: weebs have more heated arguments about waifus than pedophilia mods just don't want triggering words to be associated with the site because they don't want to scare advertisers, they don't actually care about ethics or civility Mods couldn't care less about advertisers. We neither get paid nor are we employed by MAL. |
Swagernator said: @NoLiferSoul did nothing wrong! Ardanaz said: @Nolifersoul did nothing wrong |
NoLiferSoul said: Mods couldn't care less about advertisers. We neither get paid nor are we employed by MAL. That's actually insane. I can't imagine moderating such a huge community and not getting paid, knowing they make a lot of money of your work. Either way I'm not wrong, you can ask the creator and he will tell you that's the reason why he doesn't want such topics to be discussed. All big sites do the same. |
Rojaseb said: NoLiferSoul said: Mods couldn't care less about advertisers. We neither get paid nor are we employed by MAL. That's actually insane. I can't imagine moderating such a huge community and not getting paid, knowing they make a lot of money of your work. Either way I'm not wrong, you can ask the creator and he will tell you that's the reason why he doesn't want such topics to be discussed. All big sites do the same. The removal of CE and the ban on politics came from the mod's side, not the owner of the website. The only rule we do enforce due to advertisers is the rule against piracy links. |
Swagernator said: @NoLiferSoul did nothing wrong! Ardanaz said: @Nolifersoul did nothing wrong |
| @NoLiferSoul whats your take on this suggestion and mine as the head moderator this days |
Straight up abolishing rule #5 or allow any controversial thread as of right now doesn't seem realistic as it'd just become the new CE. I also don't see threads like gender and race diversity necessary nor stay civil for too long. My take would be that we should allow certain threads rather than whole topics and actively moderate those selected threads to see how well they fare (example). Once we've seen that people can discuss those topics it might be possible to open up some of those topics. |
Swagernator said: @NoLiferSoul did nothing wrong! Ardanaz said: @Nolifersoul did nothing wrong |
NoLiferSoul said: Straight up abolishing rule #5 or allow any controversial thread as of right now doesn't seem realistic as it'd just become the new CE. I also don't see threads like gender and race diversity necessary nor stay civil for too long. My take would be that we should allow certain threads rather than whole topics and actively moderate those selected threads to see how well they fare (example). Once we've seen that people can discuss those topics it might be possible to open up some of those topics. thats a good compromise by allowing one controversial thread at a time but how is that initiated by users or the devs are planning to make mega threads started by mods easily accessible? plus my suggeation is news threads so news are rare already |
deg said: NoLiferSoul said: Straight up abolishing rule #5 or allow any controversial thread as of right now doesn't seem realistic as it'd just become the new CE. I also don't see threads like gender and race diversity necessary nor stay civil for too long. My take would be that we should allow certain threads rather than whole topics and actively moderate those selected threads to see how well they fare (example). Once we've seen that people can discuss those topics it might be possible to open up some of those topics. thats a good compromise by allowing one controversial thread at a time but how is that initiated by users or the devs are planning to make mega threads started by mods easily accessible? That's still up to discuss. So far I've only taken feedback from several people and thought about what might be the best solution to it. The easiest start to this would probably be a user going to a moderator and asking them if they're allowed to create xy thread. If they get the yes from said mod the mod can edit the first post to attach a moderated warning / tag so other moderators won't touch (delete / lock) the thread. Just bear in mind that this has only been my idea for a solution so far and nothing was discussed or agreed upon by the mod team yet. In the end to change the rules as a whole you'd need more than one mod approval. For the news as a whole I'm afraid I can't say yes or no to that as I lack knowledge of what kind of anime news there are and how common + controversial those are. |
Swagernator said: @NoLiferSoul did nothing wrong! Ardanaz said: @Nolifersoul did nothing wrong |
NoLiferSoul said: do consider controversial anime news threads that comes from anime news network at least as they are well established news source and those news are rare again thanksdeg said: thats a good compromise by allowing one controversial thread at a time but how is that initiated by users or the devs are planning to make mega threads started by mods easily accessible? That's still up to discuss. So far I've only taken feedback from several people and thought about what might be the best solution to it. The easiest start to this would probably be a user going to a moderator and asking them if they're allowed to create xy thread. If they get the yes from said mod the mod can edit the first post to attach a moderated warning / tag so other moderators won't touch (delete / lock) the thread. Just bear in mind that this has only been my idea for a solution so far and nothing was discussed or agreed upon by the mod team yet. In the end to change the rules as a whole you'd need more than one mod approval. For the news as a whole I'm afraid I can't say yes or no to that as I lack knowledge of what kind of anime news there are and how common + controversial those are. |
| Ah shit a mod has already visited this thread, gotta be careful with my language. MAL feels awful and boring nowadays, everyone feels like an angel compared to the past :) |
| Rules seem weird yeah. I like that Current Events got closed. But the Casual Discussion rules ... are pretty strict. Basically anythign can get closed. For anime plot ... I talk to friends in private. Liked forums like the ones on MAL to talk about politics and stuff. Guess I will be less active in the forums. (Have been less active anyways lol. Enough other forums and websites online.) I think it should be okay to talk about such stuff in anime - but not in the episode threads (would derail them too much) ... but in separate threads. But if this isn't wanted ... well ... better not to post anything at all. Nowadays it mostly is fanboys vs. haters or animation fans (that just hype for the art and get annoying if you dislike it cause you don't like the plot). No interesting discussions. I just recommend to use MAL for the list only. It is called MyAnimeLIST after all. Forums can just be shut down completely. :P |
Scordolo said: If the topic delves into toxicity and insulting and going off topic, then someone can just report it and the said post can be deleted. Just don't lock the whole ass thread please. I don't think this would work in most cases lol. If mods didn't lock those threads, there would be more of those posts being made while they're cleaning the threads. There are even those trolls spamming posts by the second in some cases (that LGBTQ tag suggestion lmao). There's a post listing moderators' responsibilities in a link somewhere in the forum guidelines, it does explain why thread cleaning takes so long to complete before someone can post in it again. From what I understand, one mod locks the thread but it takes more than one mod to verify to prevent biases. |
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| Completely and 100% agreed, OP. It's had a chilling effect on the state of discourse on this site for quite some time now. I'm a bit of a free speech absolutist though. The only thing I would see fit to regulate and prohibit if I had my way around these parts would be direct personal insults (Calling someone "a piece of garbage", "fucking scumbag", "lowlife", and other curse words and epithets aggressively or repeatedly, doxxing, or direct threats of personal violence from one user toward another). Everything else in written text should be fair game. "Toxicity" in the way that term is popularly used today is a meaningless boogeyman buzz word anyway. If anything, more "toxicity" builds up in people's minds and hearts and cumulatively in a society by not allowing people to have their views shared and exchanged, debated and challenged. It just builds up silently and then explodes into a mass shooting or other massacre or violent or destabilizing incident. Silencing people does not eliminate the existence of views you/people may disagree with. It just drives them underground and fragments a community and society more. Often on diametrically opposed and irreconcilable terms as people form rival communities whose basis and entire identity becomes one of express ideological exclusion. The debate on this subject also reminds me of the Bishamon and her makeshift family of regalia arc of the second season of Noragami - Noragami Aragoto, for anyone who has seen it. Preventing people from expressing disagreement on a range of things just causes more radicalism and resentment to build up silently until people suffocate and choke to death on the rank poisonous fumes which accumulate when people have to suffer and stew in silence and are barred from healthily and freely airing out their worldview and opinions. It create a fake and friendly, happy-go-lucky facade on the surface while only superficially papering over internal turmoil. It actively undermines the integrity of any family or community in the long run. As nothing of substance gets discussed and people converse artificially and within burdensome and restrictive imposed constraints. More and more people begin to feel the venue in question isn't a place they can come to speak freely, speak their mind, be themselves, discuss anything that actually matters to them, etc. This breeds more alienation. It's one of the many quick and easy "non-solutions" as I call them, but actually creates in the process a far larger problem than it is designed to combat in the first place. Laika_Moonlight said: Yeah, I'm pretty ok with rule 5, in fact I'd say I actively support it. I don't want to see those sorts of things being debated when I'm just talking about some anime/manga that I liked, TBH So simply choose not to read the posts or thread topics you're not interested in? The internet has been widely available for civilian usage for about 25 years now and I absolutely still do not get why this is such a difficult concept for people to grasp and apply to themselves. I choose not to read, watch, or listen to things I'm not interested in all the time, on this website and everywhere else. I don't read 99.9%+ of the posts on MAL; likely neither do you. If someone wants to talk about something, let them talk about it. If you're not interested in talking about something or reading or hearing others talk about it, don't read or listen to it. Easy. I don't know why the next logical leap for some people is made into the desire/compulsion to attempt to police and dictate others' speech. |
WatchTillTandavaSep 11, 2021 4:53 PM
WatchTillTandava said: So simply choose not to read the posts or thread topics you're not interested in? I'm not sure if that's a question or a suggestion, but that's already what I do. That unfortunately doesn't prevent others from completely derailing subjects I am interested in, however WatchTillTandava said: The internet has been widely available for civilian usage for about 25 years now and I absolutely still do not get why this is such a difficult concept for people to grasp and apply to themselves. Yeah, same. I'd be a lot more critical of rule 5, if people weren't going on to subjects that don't interest them, in order to derail them with politically-charged propaganda or blind hate towards entire groups WatchTillTandava said: If someone wants to talk about something, let them talk about it. A fair opinion, but I would prefer that MyAnimeList users stick to anime discussions. There are plenty of other sites with much larger userbases than this one for talking about sensitive issues, IMO WatchTillTandava said: If you're not interested in talking about something or reading or hearing others talk about it, don't read or listen to it. Easy. That doesn't stop other users putting "@Laika_Moonlight" in any such discussion though, for example Sensitive discussions on MAL, in my experience at least, usually turn into flame wars and blindly discriminating against people who have a different opinion to the OP, sadly. And I think I speak for most people when I say that I don't think bullying has any business being on MAL (or any site, for that matter). It's not for my own sake, but rather for the sake of other people who are discussing those sorts of things. I couldn't care less about participating in sensitive discussion topics. If a subject doesn't interest me, I won't read it. But hearing other people saying that someone bullied them for having a different opinion on a controversial topic makes me sad beyond words. If the people making these sorts of threads were just solely having civil debates, I'd be in favor of removing rule 5. But 90% of the time "controversial" topics here turn into cyberbullying, which is, as I hope you'll agree, neither cool nor appropriate. If one day MAL's active moderator count got a huge boost, I'd say rule 5 could be abolished since the mods would theoretically just ban everyone who decided to bully or discriminate, but as it currently stands, rule 5 makes things easier for both the mods and, in my opinion, most users too WatchTillTandava said: I don't know why the next logical leap for some people is made into the desire/compulsion to attempt to police and dictate others' speech. I just think that there's a time and place for everything, but an animanga site isn't that place, IMO (especially since it's against MAL's rules). I'm all for them going onto some other, non fandom-specific forum and posting about whatever subject they want (so long as they're not hurting anyone) Honestly, though, I'm terrible at explaining my point of view on these sorts of things, especially since, as I said, I rarely participate in "sensitive" discussions myself, so I can only speak for what little I have seen of "controversial" discussions here on MAL And lastly, I respect and understand your opinion on this subject completely, even though I personally disagree with it |
Kogasa-TataraSep 11, 2021 5:31 PM
My greatest contribution to this website: |
| I think it should just be modified to filter sensitive topics relating to crime, race, religion, etc but that's still kinda broad idk |
 |
| I didn't know this dumb rule even existed. I was just about to post that Attack on Titan's story is an allegory to the fascist apartheid regime of Israel. |
| End Zionazism |
| people take vaccine without even knowing what it is that they're putting inside their bodies. you can just imagine the kind of stuff people say just to get it out of their chest. |
| The best fix is not to remove any rules and instead hire and pay actual people who have had elementary school education and are not basement dwellers to moderate the forums. Each time I get banned I have to wait until 5am just to get ghosted by a moderator who comes online for 5 minutes so he can keep his moderator rank so he can keep banning people who don't agree with his opinions. After that they can make an actual in built unban application system that isn't located on a 1990's era chat room. That application would be viewed by all moderators instead of the exact moderator that banned you so that he cannot ghost you for 10 days until you get your unban because he is scared of you arguing with him that your ban was unjust. |
 |
| Have you guys tried not getting banned lmao. I have been on various internet forums over the years and uhh, getting banned is something you have to work at. Read the rules of whatever site you're on, follow them (even if you don't agree) and you won't get banned. When threads/forums/subreddits get deleted it is *always* the same crowd of people complaining when it was the responsibility of that same crowd the that threads/forums/subreddits were deleted in the first place. It's comical. And then said crowd complains of some sort of "persecution". The ghost town of MAL is actually pretty nice, coming from a person who has been active online for over a decade now. The nonsense threads that are basically one sentence questions are easy to read and don't require a lot of thought which is nice! It's an anime site after all and anime is pretty low level for the most part except for the pretentious stuff. It's nice if the forum reflects that laid back attitude and isn't so serious. |
| Join Mastodon |
| Go to r/politics if you care so much... |
 My biggest regret: Reading all 200+ chapters of Kanojo, Okarishimasu |
OH COME ON! The toxicity is where I get my entertainment from. It's so fun seeing the people trying their hardest to be edgy and toxic.  |
     |
| Welcome to the internet, circa 2021. |
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| I used to log onto MAL to keep track of the anime I was watching and to have fun debating and reading arguments in CE. Now I just occasionally post on Gaming. Either way, the site is not what it used to be. |
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