| I want to start with a biblical verse, which is really important, as there is an intimate relationship between Flat Earth, Trumpism, and religion. I don't mean to blame religion for Flat Earth, despite being exactly that, but it's not what I mean at all. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. -Luke 12:2 You guys know, the truth is out there. Honestly, if I were an astronaut I wouldn't reveal the earth is flat or that God exists I would delve into Time Warp and stuff like this. Isn't it so obvious, use a meter and go straight to the horizon, I'll see that it will not bend! Just use your head! Honestly, the reasons that make people believe in stuff like this and what their pastors and politicians say is beyond comprehension. Do you believe in Flat Earth, Great Ice wall and stuff like this? What is your opinion on Flat Earthers? |
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.'' |
| Hmm didn't flat earth start as a joke? |
| خ |
| I don't believe the Earth is flat, nor I believe it is round. They are just unproven theories. But it is interesting to learn about them. |
_Mataga_Oct 6, 2020 1:02 AM
 |
| No, I don't believe in Flath Earth or other related theories. Judging from what I've seen on the internet so far, Flat Earthers seem to be pathological attention seekers, so it's best not to engage with them because that's exactly what they want, don't give them the upper hand. |
ProfessionalNEET said: But why you don't care about them? Honestly, they have a fair and valid line of thinking if you look closely. I respect their questioning spirit. I have participated in some flat earth forums to spy and learn more about it (I got banned later though). I just think they are people with the wrong influence.Fate_Saber88 said: Do you believe in Flat Earth, Great Ice wall and stuff like this? No, and I imagine that 99% of MAL users would probably say the same. What is your opinion on Flat Earthers? I don't really care about them, as they are fairly small, non-influential bunch. It's not wrong to care about the badly influenced significant other. You can even quote a Biblical verse for this i.e Luke 1:71 salvation from our enemies and from the hand of all who hate us. I'm not a religious person but it strikes them every time you mess with these verses. |
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.'' |
InJ_Mataga said: I don't believe the Earth is flat, nor I believe it is round. They are just unproven theories. But it is interesting to learn about them. "Unproven theories." Proof. At any point of Earth, you can draw a circle whose center is your position and whose radius is bounded from below independently of your position (take something smaller than the horizon). Therefore, you can take finitely many such "charts" and you have just proven that the Earth was a two-dimensional topological manifold without boundary (a surface without boundary if you prefer). By the classification theorem of surfaces, this surface is a (topological) sphere with a certain number of "holes". However, if there were some holes, one could see them from Earth, but we did not observe that. Therefore, the Earth is a topological sphere. QED. OT: LOL. I thought that they were joking but no, some people believe in flat Earth as they believe in fairy tales. Thankfully, you do not get to meet those people in real life. @Fatephile I also thought that it was an Internet meme until I learnt about the Flat Earth Society. |
Meusnier said: InJ_Mataga said: I don't believe the Earth is flat, nor I believe it is round. They are just unproven theories. But it is interesting to learn about them. "Unproven theories." Proof. At any point of Earth, you can draw a circle whose center is your position and whose radius is bounded from below independently of your position (take something smaller than the horizon). Therefore, you can take finitely many such "charts" and you have just proven that the Earth was a two-dimensional topological manifold without boundary (a surface without boundary if you prefer). By the classification theorem of surfaces, this surface is a (topological) sphere with a certain number of "holes". However, if there were some holes, one could see them from Earth, but we did not observe that. Therefore, the Earth is a topological sphere. QED. OT: LOL. I thought that they were joking but no, some people believe in flat Earth as they believe in fairy tales. Thankfully, you do not get to meet those people in real life. @Fatephile I also thought that it was an Internet meme until I learnt about the Flat Earth Society. Alright, let me know how I should do it. I will try it myself. I didn't take topology class in university because I was majoring in mathematics education. Until I prove it myself, I will not believe anyone. |
|
Fate_Saber88 said: I want to start with a biblical verse, which is really important, as there is an intimate relationship between Flat Earth, Trumpism, and religion. I don't mean to blame religion for Flat Earth, despite being exactly that, but it's not what I mean at all. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. -Luke 12:2 You guys know, the truth is out there. Honestly, if I were an astronaut I wouldn't reveal the earth is flat or that God exists I would delve into Time Warp and stuff like this. Isn't it so obvious, use a meter and go straight to the horizon, I'll see that it will not bend! Just use your head! Honestly, the reasons that make people believe in stuff like this and what their pastors and politicians say is beyond comprehension. Do you believe in Flat Earth, Great Ice wall and stuff like this? What is your opinion on Flat Earthers? I don't think flat earthers really exist. I think those claiming the earth is flat are internet trolls trying to screw with people and nothing more. |
| @InJ_Mataga Until I prove it myself, I will not believe anyone. F**ing Yes dude! That's what I"m talking about, Someone simply told me that! Yes, I watched videos showing the planet earth and all but I still did not see it myself. Many People just believe it because a teacher told them that. It's just an example I don't believe in FLat Earth but I respect it. I read many theories about Flat Earth and I respect the questioning spirit which is a central philosophy for them. I think Flat Earthers are frustrated people who need better teaching. |
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.'' |
ezikialrage said: They do exist, they have a weak mind that's the problem. Religion plays a big role too, they want to believe the bible it comforts them because the Flat Earth theory supports their beliefs.Fate_Saber88 said: I want to start with a biblical verse, which is really important, as there is an intimate relationship between Flat Earth, Trumpism, and religion. I don't mean to blame religion for Flat Earth, despite being exactly that, but it's not what I mean at all. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. -Luke 12:2 You guys know, the truth is out there. Honestly, if I were an astronaut I wouldn't reveal the earth is flat or that God exists I would delve into Time Warp and stuff like this. Isn't it so obvious, use a meter and go straight to the horizon, I'll see that it will not bend! Just use your head! Honestly, the reasons that make people believe in stuff like this and what their pastors and politicians say is beyond comprehension. Do you believe in Flat Earth, Great Ice wall and stuff like this? What is your opinion on Flat Earthers? I don't think flat earthers really exist. I think those claiming the earth is flat are internet trolls trying to screw with people and nothing more. |
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.'' |
| Aww come on, not this discussion. its just a no. Too many disucssions have taken place |
 "Don't give up after failing just twice. We'll be able to do it next time. Failure is the stepping stone to success." |
It truly is a high IQ movement, most of them probably score in the double digits. That said, have a nice day and don't let the penguins shoot you on the way out. (There is a whole playlist, it is high quality comedy, really: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=digpdxSSECI&list=PLQqZ3BXjQ17SOmHxmfaR6sG8Xs1BHTrSZ) |
LihinelOct 6, 2020 3:49 AM
Fate_Saber88 said: I have participated in some flat earth forums to spy and learn more about it (I got banned later though). lol, are you the guy who was banned for sharing this dinosaurs meme in their group? They claimed that they're abused and ridiculed omg lmao. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tanyachen/flat-earthers-triggered-by-dinosaur-joke |
| "You misunderstood from the very beginning. You just believed what you wanted to believe." Rei Ayanami |
vuxk said: FFS LMFAO. Dude I wish. I was just too much of a realist to their taste, I was done after gathering enough intel and created a thread dispising them and showing all evidence (Actual pictures of our sphere).Fate_Saber88 said: I have participated in some flat earth forums to spy and learn more about it (I got banned later though). lol, are you the guy who was banned for sharing this dinosaurs meme in their group? They claimed that they're abused and ridiculed omg lmao. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tanyachen/flat-earthers-triggered-by-dinosaur-joke |
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.'' |
InJ_Mataga said: Meusnier said: "Unproven theories." Proof. At any point of Earth, you can draw a circle whose center is your position and whose radius is bounded from below independently of your position (take something smaller than the horizon). Therefore, you can take finitely many such "charts" and you have just proven that the Earth was a two-dimensional topological manifold without boundary (a surface without boundary if you prefer). By the classification theorem of surfaces, this surface is a (topological) sphere with a certain number of "holes". However, if there were some holes, one could see them from Earth, but we did not observe that. Therefore, the Earth is a topological sphere. QED. OT: LOL. I thought that they were joking but no, some people believe in flat Earth as they believe in fairy tales. Thankfully, you do not get to meet those people in real life. @Fatephile I also thought that it was an Internet meme until I learnt about the Flat Earth Society. Alright, let me know how I should do it. I will try it myself. I didn't take topology class in university because I was majoring in mathematics education. Until I prove it myself, I will not believe anyone. Fair enough, and great point actually. The thing with mathematics is that I do not expect anyone to believe me on words, just as I do not believe on words proofs I cannot check myself, modulo the fact that I will not publicly question the validity of theorems I cannot check myself (one should take also time into account; when decades have passed, while many people gathered in the world to check difficult proofs and could not find any mistake, we can safely believe in the validity of those theorems). When proof verifiers will go mainstream, we will not even need to rely on this form of skepticism. Since you majored in mathematics and now teach mathematics (if I recall correctly), merely looking at the definitions of compact sets, topological manifolds and at a statement of the classification of surfaces and checking that indeed, the Earth is a closed surface and therefore falls into the field of application of this classification should be very easy for you. But I have actually been thinking about making some drawings and post in the creative corner this proof to make it more accessible. @Fate_Saber88 I agree with most of what you said in post #11. "Hey! Teacher! Leave them kids alone!" @vuxk This meme was hilarious, thank you for sharing! |
| So many heretics... @Mummykun tell them the truth, please. |
| @Meusnier The thing is I don't question the mathematics, but the "why" "Why I should draw circle? Can I draw rectangle instead? or triangle? or other shape? If I draw a different shape, can't it prove that the earth is round using this method? What this method proves actually? If it proves that the Earth is a closed surface, is the shape really round? Or am I missing any assumption? " If I can know those and I see how it works, I will certainly be convinced. Your proof leaves me so many questions |
|
| What u thought earth was a sphere jokes on u, u have been fooled by NASA the Earth is Flat surrounded by ice walls of Antarctica The earth looks like this  The Earth is not Flat shitty bitches |
Erwin_DanchouOct 6, 2020 3:08 AM
| I'm a Flat Earther since 2017, and yes I'm serious about it. I don't try to force anyone on it nor no one really taught me about it. I frequent other forums other than MAL, and I have a knack for respecting intelligent people. There's this one guy whom I deeply respect who revealed that he believed in FE. Obviously, I lost respect for him and I wanted to prove his stupidity. But how can I make him realize his stupidity without knowing his beliefs or trying to understand him first? So I studied the Theory behind FE and the rest is history. |
  |
| I don't care about the shape of the earth but those flatards are not that crazy. There was that laser experiment on a plane surface (frozen lake), basically some dude pointed a laser from A to B and on a curve earth the laser dot in point B was supposed to be higher because light doesn't bend, but it was on the same height. |
    |
InJ_Mataga said: @Meusnier The thing is I don't question the mathematics, but the "why" "Why I should draw circle? Can I draw rectangle instead? or triangle? or other shape? If I draw a different shape, can't it prove that the earth is round using this method? What this method proves actually? If it proves that the Earth is a closed surface, is the shape really round? Or am I missing any assumption? " If I can know those and I see how it works, I will certainly be convinced. Your proof leaves me so many questions I used a circle because it is the simplest geometrical shape, and taking balls (disks here) as charts domain is quite common. Yes indeed, you could use triangles or rectangles, and the triangulation of spaces in one of the first idea that Poincaré introduced in what was still called the analysis situ. More precisely, you can read all properties of surfaces on their triangulations (things like the Euler characteristic, which gives you the genus of the surface). I just wanted a finite covering of Earth by some "open" sets. Taking a covering by disks is also useful as it permits me to show easily that a finite number of disks suffices to cover the Earth. If the radii or circles close to the (assumed) boundary of Earth converged towards 0, the proof would not work. See for example this famous covering of the disk by fishes of Escher. This covering needs infinitely many fishes. You can also see this covering as a covering by irregular octagons. What this method only shows is that Earth is a closed surface of genus 0, without "holes". It may still look like some ugly potato. But it does not say that Earth is a perfectly round sphere (which Earth is not actually). To show that Earth is a sphere with flattened ends (close to an ellipsoid), one needs to use physical arguments like gravity, direct observation or design very precise charts. One can also compute the Gauss curvature of Earth at most points, and see that it is closed to 1; when it is less than 1, the Earth is flatter than the sphere, but I think that one could get a precise 3D picture of Earth just with local measures of distances and altitudes. Actually, this is a modern paradigm of geometry that all information about a manifold are encoded in the metric (since the work of people like Gromov), one can in principle recover any geometrical property of Earth from metrical observations. Not the fastest and simplest way though. Korishi said: @Meusnier also isn't the fact that the moon and sun would not always be showing their 'flat' surface, but instead you'd observe the curvature at some point? I'd like to see those graphics if you decide to post in creative corner. something accessible to even a so-called flat-earther would be interesting We certainly deduce that the Moon must be round by looking at its projections on Earth. See this technical discussion for more details (pictures would be useful here). https://mathoverflow.net/questions/39127/is-the-sphere-the-only-surface-all-of-whose-projections-are-circles-or-can-we I might post on creative corner some day, but I do not draw very well lol. @Erwin_Danchou But the Moon is round on this drawing... Why would be the Earth special? Mm... ... ... |
| @Meusnier because u didnt read the full post thats why |
I did read the text in small characters at the end of your post, I was just joking. Another funny thing about this picture. It uses the standard World map, but we know that Africa is much bigger for example. |
| Flat Earth is such bullshit. Everyone knows Earth is donutoid. |
 |
Even better: the Earth is a flat torus. That should make everyone happy. |
-Shinzo said: So I studied the Theory behind FE and the rest is history. And by studied, you mean you watched a bunch of FE YouTubers. And by theory, you mean the colloquial definition a.k.a. hunch or speculation. Right? Because if not and you claim to have a coherent model, I've got some questions for you if you don't mind. Though you might want to help out your fellow FEs first, for as of now they can not seem to agree on a coherent theory or model. Hope you are just trolling. |
The argument will not give you the exact shape of the Earth, but just that it can be continuously deformed into a round sphere (is homeomorphic to the standard sphere). As I said, it still could be a bizarre ellipsoid or look like a peanut, but certainly not be a disk. |
| Can we be astronauts to proof that Earth is either flat or not? |
 "You don't get it, a million sorry's is not equal to one thank you." — Emilia |
Meusnier said: The argument will not give you the exact shape of the Earth, but just that it can be continuously deformed into a round sphere (is homeomorphic to the standard sphere). As I said, it still could be a bizarre ellipsoid or look like a peanut, but certainly not be a disk. Well, I never said that the earth is a disk. And what you showed is modeling. It proves nothing. |
|
| show me a planet discovered by NASA that is flat too |
InJ_Mataga said: Meusnier said: The argument will not give you the exact shape of the Earth, but just that it can be continuously deformed into a round sphere (is homeomorphic to the standard sphere). As I said, it still could be a bizarre ellipsoid or look like a peanut, but certainly not be a disk. Well, I never said that the earth is a disk. And what you showed is modeling. It proves nothing. Modeling? No idea what this is supposed to mean. I thought that you were of good faith, but this "It proves nothing." shows that it was not the case. |
Meusnier said: InJ_Mataga said: Well, I never said that the earth is a disk. And what you showed is modeling. It proves nothing. Modeling? No idea what this is supposed to mean. I thought that you were of good faith, but this "It proves nothing." shows that it was not the case. Sorry, maybe I picked a wrong vocabulary, I am not a native speaker with a limited vocabulary What I mean is, what you showed is a scientific model of earth using topology. It doesn't prove anything. |
|
deg said: show me a planet discovered by NASA that is flat too because the other planets r not flat LMAO |
Erwin_DanchouOct 6, 2020 4:37 AM
Erwin_Danchou said: deg said: show me a planet discovered by NASA that is flat too because the other planets r not flat LMAO holy shit why they are verified? https://twitter.com/FlatEarthOrg i thought verified users on twitter are suppose to be with good reputation and not spreading fake news |
InJ_Mataga said: Meusnier said: Modeling? No idea what this is supposed to mean. I thought that you were of good faith, but this "It proves nothing." shows that it was not the case. Sorry, maybe I picked a wrong vocabulary, I am not a native speaker with a limited vocabulary What I mean is, what you showed is a scientific model of earth using topology. It doesn't prove anything. At this point, it becomes an issue of faith or terminology. I do not see that as a "model" in the sense that it could be proven false as you are making a one-to-one correspondence between the Earth and charts of it. If you wish, this is exactly as taking pictures of Earth where distances would be indicated on them and trying to reassemble them in a coherent picture. Mathematics just tells you that with such charts at disposal, the only way to assemble those pictures will give you a spherical shape. |
deg said: holy shit why they are verified? https://twitter.com/FlatEarthOrg i thought verified users on twitter are suppose to be with good reputation and not spreading fake news haha dont know just stumbled upon em might be true cuz they r verified cant find it on twitter i think they r old maybe |
Erwin_DanchouOct 6, 2020 5:11 AM
Meusnier said: Korishi said: @Meusnier also isn't the fact that the moon and sun would not always be showing their 'flat' surface, but instead you'd observe the curvature at some point? I'd like to see those graphics if you decide to post in creative corner. something accessible to even a so-called flat-earther would be interesting We certainly deduce that the Moon must be round by looking at its projections on Earth. See this technical discussion for more details (pictures would be useful here). https://mathoverflow.net/questions/39127/is-the-sphere-the-only-surface-all-of-whose-projections-are-circles-or-can-we I might post on creative corner some day, but I do not draw very well lol. yeah these basic observations are traced back to Aristotle. we can use Lunar eclipses, Star patterns, even our knowledge of Atmospheric Refraction. Its literally called atmosphere by the Greeks. we could simply ask ourselves "how do we know an object is a sphere?" artists would tell you instantly. I think it's something to do with shadows and luminance again like a sphere being the only shape which always casts a shadow. Hurricanes and (most) tornadoes rotate counter-clockwise in the northern hemisphere while they rotate clockwise in the southern hemisphere. How can you visualise this at home? Take a pencil and rotate it with the point facing you, then slowly turn it and observe the rotation once the eraser is facing you. we also have Foucault's pendulum. I'm sure mathematics can explain all of this but I struggle to visualise sets of data and equations... yes a torus Indeed Meusnier said: ok this is another thing that is believable because all units of measurement are empirical. otherwise some square meters would not equal other square metersThe argument will not give you the exact shape of the Earth, but just that it can be continuously deformed into a round sphere (is homeomorphic to the standard sphere). As I said, it still could be a bizarre ellipsoid or look like a peanut, but certainly not be a disk. *so much edits because a bbcode tag had a space that I didnt see xD @InJ_Mataga see this example. if the earth were cow shaped, some distances would not be equal and easily observable |
removed-userOct 6, 2020 6:27 AM
| @Meusnier The thing is almost all 3-D shapes can be deform into a round topologically I said I don't believe either the Earth is flat or round and as I didn't know what topology is, your giving me "proof" made me curious and I expected something better than this @Korishi Yeah, I know. But saying that this "proves" something is just .... |
_Mataga_Oct 6, 2020 6:01 AM
|
| Have the flat earthers never been on a plane? Looks pretty roundish from way up high to me. vuxk said: Fate_Saber88 said: I have participated in some flat earth forums to spy and learn more about it (I got banned later though). lol, are you the guy who was banned for sharing this dinosaurs meme in their group? They claimed that they're abused and ridiculed omg lmao. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tanyachen/flat-earthers-triggered-by-dinosaur-joke Lmao! Meteor turned the Earth into a see-saw bouncy castle! So Aliens are really ancient dinosaurs from flat Earth. Amazing stuff. Erwin_Danchou said: What u thought earth was a sphere jokes on u, u have been fooled by NASA the Earth is Flat surrounded by ice walls of Antarctica The earth looks like this The Earth is not Flat shitty bitches Lol that's hilarous! So how do they explain the entire disk being surrounded by ice? Surely the ice closest to the sun would melt and all the water would drain from the flat Earth. And why are the other planets and stars not flat? Why only Earth? And what about the mountains? Earth's terrain is not flat. I think these people are too used to man made urban environments. Bloody Romans went around making straight roads now people are born into the matrix believing the whole world is flat and apparently they never left the city. -Shinzo said: I'm a Flat Earther since 2017, and yes I'm serious about it. I don't try to force anyone on it nor no one really taught me about it. I frequent other forums other than MAL, and I have a knack for respecting intelligent people. There's this one guy whom I deeply respect who revealed that he believed in FE. Obviously, I lost respect for him and I wanted to prove his stupidity. But how can I make him realize his stupidity without knowing his beliefs or trying to understand him first? So I studied the Theory behind FE and the rest is history. No Shinzo, not you too! Say it ain't so. Well, for what its worth I am like you. Can't really say until one looks into something themselves and finds the truth / proof. Otherwise all you can do is have faith. For now; I don't believe in flat earth but I don't really know what to believe anymore in all honesty. The world is full of lies and deceit. The Bible may not be true but it did say that things would be like this. That the people wouldn't know what was what anymore. |
removed-userOct 6, 2020 7:13 AM
InJ_Mataga said: @Meusnier The thing is almost all 3-D shapes can be deform into a round topologically I said I don't believe either the Earth is flat or round and as I didn't know what topology is, your giving me "proof" made me curious and I expected something better than this @Korishi Yeah, I know. But saying that this "proves" something is just .... don't worry I'm still wrapping my head around it. I'm trying to understand it also from the point of someone without means to quickly travel across the sky in an airplane or orbit the earth from space. something else to consider is gravity. there would need to be more than one point for such strange objects to give equal weight to their terrestrial masses. |
| the fact that planets rotates/spins and even orbit around the sun or stars in general makes you think that space friction if ever there is one should eventually shape them planets to a sphere anyway so those saying the earth is flat should show remarkable proof on how this place orbits around the sun and rotates/spins EDIT: space friction exist https://cosmicopia.gsfc.nasa.gov/qa_sp_ms.html#friction |
More topics from this board
» What are some of your favorite animals?DoisacChopper - Feb 10 |
49 |
by CalmTeaTime
»»
16 minutes ago |
|
» Do you think there should be an age limit on friendship?Thy-Veseveia - Feb 28 |
42 |
by Kamikaze_404
»»
22 minutes ago |
|
» What sort of education did you get?removed-user - Dec 23, 2019 |
48 |
by Rhaelynne
»»
28 minutes ago |
|
» 2023-2024 NBA Season Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )deg - Jun 18, 2023 |
679 |
by Hitagi__Furude
»»
2 hours ago |
|
Poll: » Do you care about your native culture?Kamikaze_404 - Apr 9 |
45 |
by Bruh69XD
»»
3 hours ago |