| EDIT: To clarify a bit, I'm moreso asking if you think it's possible that an anime focuses and shows sex to similar amounts as Hentai does, but be taken much more seriously, or is it just doomed to be considered basically a typical Hentai. With how Hentai is now, 99% of them have overly simple and nonsensical plots, since the point really is to just get your rocks off. However I've always wondered if it's possible for Hentai to be taken more serious and used to enhance an actually competent plot instead of just fap material. Sex is something with a lot of emotion tied to it, whether it's good emotions because you're making love with someone you care deeply about, or bad emotions due to being raped or cheated on. And sure, you can cover those topics without actually showing the act, but actually including them can also really add to the impact of those emotions for the viewer if done correctly. Long story short, I would really like to see some anime that use sex more as something to enhance a story rather than to enhance the firmness of one's trouser snake. Do you think this is possible, or is Hentai dug itself too far into a whole to ever be taken seriously enough? |
BenienmaMay 8, 2017 10:29 AM
| I always take hentai as most serious genre. |
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| It would be possible if folks were willing to actually pay money for it. Hentai is made cheap because it doesn't sell well, same for regular porn. If you want mainstream anime quality, you need a mainstream anime budget. |
| I watch porn for the plot, it greatly enhances the psychological nature and character building. |
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Lavendarjosh said: It would be possible if folks were willing to actually pay money for it. Hentai is made cheap because it doesn't sell well, same for regular porn. If you want mainstream anime quality, you need a mainstream anime budget. Yeah I think this is one of the primary things holding it back. The way Hentai is produced and marketed it would not be financially viable to put a "legit" anime's worth of budget and effort into it. I think what would need to happen is for a bigger studio to step up and try it out for it to really work. |
| I haven't watched it yet, so take it with a grain of salt, but I'm pretty sure Belladonna isn't just mindless porn https://myanimelist.net/anime/3220/Kanashimi_no_Belladonna I have some hentai on my list (mostly the decent ones, no one needs to know I saw Taimanin Asagi), and some are better than non-hentai shows, on their own ground. Mankitsu Happening is certainly not the worst comedy out there. |
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Clebardman said: I haven't watched it yet, so take it with a grain of salt, but I'm pretty sure Belladonna is n't just mindless hentai https://myanimelist.net/anime/3220/Kanashimi_no_Belladonna I have some hentai on my list (mostly the decent ones, no one needs to know I saw Taimanin Asagi), and some are better than non-hentai shows, on their own ground. Mankitsu Happening is certainly not the worst comedy out there. Oh yeah I'm certainly not implying that none exist with actually decent plots, but it's a rare thing to find in a minefield of junk. Either way, I will look into this one. Danke~ :3 |
| Hentai = Porn. I don't see Porn being taken seriously as a genre. Just having sex scenes does not make a hentai/porn tho. Game of Thrones has sex scenes, and it's not porn after all. There are anime with sex scenes that are not porn either. But hentai is porn by definition and therefore doesn't give a fuck about anything except arousal. That's how it should be. I don't get why people think having sex = porn. If you write a intriguing story with fleshed out characters and everything that happens to include sex scenes it's still not gonna be porn. It's not porn unless it first and foremost revolves around the sex scenes with everything else being secondary at best. Sexuality in a vacuum is not inherently pornographic and I find it a bit offensive when people treat it like it automatically becomes porn once you include a sex scene. Stuff like Kanashimi no Belladonna shouldn't even have a hentai tag, just an 18+ rating for some sexual content. It's basically an arthouse movie by Tezuka, far from being porn. |
AlcoholicideMay 8, 2017 8:31 AM
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Clebardman said: @Pullman it isn't that much a matter of genre, and more a matter of target audience. Visible penetration = 18+ rating, and your product automatically shifts to a completely different (and way smaller) market. Yeah but there's a different between 18+ rating and porn, isn't there? I'm sure there's other ways to get that rating. Porn implies a clear intent of being about one thing first and foremost, but that is not a requirement for 18+ rated movies in general. So I think it's an important decision to make. Nobody looking for porn would get much enjoyment out of Kanashimi Belladonna, and nobody looking for underground arthouse movies would check out something with a 'porn' tag most likely. I just don't think it's fair to treat sexual content as inherently pornographic. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| @Pullman I realize sex does not always automatically mean porn, but for something to contain sex there's a lot of limitations for it before suddenly it has to have the ratings of porn. I acknowledge my phrasing probably could've been better, but relating it to terms of anime here on MAL, I'm talking about anime that would have the "Hentai" tag due to how involved or explicit the sex in it is, but not necessarily created for the purposes of traditional "porn". |
| I feel like it's possible, all the "genre" needs is a viral title that is ironically liked to get the ball rolling. From there, that single anime could get more people into seriously liking hentai, resulting in the audience to grow and diversify and demand better products. Kinda like how people realized anime music videos were a thing after Shelter. Tho maybe this is just me being really optimistic. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| virtually all hentai are ova, and a good part of their reason of existence is to show the "benis in bagina" aka explicit sex scenes you can't show on TV there are plenty of TV series with sex scenes, but they can't show the penetration act see yosuga no sora simmilarly, i'm sure there are hentai that aren't all about the sex; i'm no expert.. my hentai list is very small, but i've seen Otenki Onee San which is pretty much a comedy with just like 5% of it being explicit sex scenes you cant show on tv ; there might be some eroge "porn with plot" hentai adaptations out there too idk also, notice that kanashimi no beladonna (and the other 2 animerama projects) predate the ova industry by a decade or so.. +1 to that they shouldn't be tagged hentai |
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| I absolutely think sex can be used as a great storytelling element, even when it's intentionally arousing. I know there are plenty of manga and VNs where the sex serves the story/characters more than the other way around, but not really any anime. You might want to give these a try though: https://myanimelist.net/anime/2982/Yuuwaku?q=yuuwaku (still probably made to be arousing, but the directing (it's Akiyuki Shinbou btw) is so good it makes the story really convincing) https://myanimelist.net/anime/3239/Cream_Lemon?q=cream (episode 4 in particular, the way the sex scene is directed and animated is absolutely unique, it manages to be completely consensual, emotional, realistic and sexy at the same time) There's some other 80s/90s hentai that are worth watching, like Lolita Anime and the Toshio Maeda adaptations, but I can't be bothered to look them all up If you're interested in hearing about Manga and VNs, feel free to ask me directly. I'm guessing from your favourites list you'll 'enjoy' Saya no Uta. |
Mystifire said: @Pullman I realize sex does not always automatically mean porn, but for something to contain sex there's a lot of limitations for it before suddenly it has to have the ratings of porn. I acknowledge my phrasing probably could've been better, but relating it to terms of anime here on MAL, I'm talking about anime that would have the "Hentai" tag due to how involved or explicit the sex in it is, but not necessarily created for the purposes of traditional "porn". My point is that something like that shouldn't exist. Hentai tag should only be applied to what qualifies as actual porn, otherwise just put a R+ rating on the show but without the hentai tag. I know what you means, I was just pointing out how it makes no sense for me for that to be a thing. Right now you still have stuff like Kanashimi no Belladonna and the other two movies of that 'trilogy' (Cleopatra and 1001 Nights) being tagged as hentai despite being arthouse films with cinematic releases. So try and checking out those, but I'm not sure it's what you're looking for because they're, well, arthouse movies and very experimental. But I'm hoping that the hentai tags get removed soon, I alread talked with some mods about. There's also the more popular method of showing the act, just not showing the actual genitalia. You see it in western live action all the time and even a few anime have sex scenes like that when it fits the story. Most recently I remember it in Onihei. I'd be hard-pressed to think of a scenario where a sex scene has to be shown in graphic detail including the genitalia to have the necessary impact on the story tho, so to me that is the best solution of combining sex scenes and being focused on story/characters, not porn. But you seem to be looking for actual, visible penetration which is what would require a R+ rating. May I ask why just seeing the sex scene from behind, or the top, or with the genitalia hidden under the sheets isn't enough? What does it add to make scenes like that actually pornographic in nature? I'm sure we could come up with a bunch of recs for sex scenes like that but when you require them to be more explicit than necessary almost only porn will fit those requirements. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| by a large group of people? No I don't but I tend to take hentai seriously and not as fap material when its trying to be more emotional than arousing such as Virgin Night and First Love now if you want a doujin as an example then Kimi wo Taosu to Kokoro ni Kimeta I could also mention Brandish since I didn't fap to it but I read it more for its comedy than wanting something emotional so I guess that doesn't really count since we are talking about taking something seriously |
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| but ppl tend to skip story part to the sex scene when they watch hentai or porn.. |
| Do you think Porn Stars can be treated as serious actors? |
JustALEX said: from what I've heard some girls from GOT has done porn so maybe Do you think Porn Stars can be treated as serious actors? |
|
| hahahaha. No one watches hentai for the plot. Im also sure not a single person watches anything on pornhub for the plot. Hentai is fap material, thats all. |
| iyaaaa~! muri! muri da! hentai wa amarini mo muchakucha to sugiru!!!! hentai wa honto no anime ja nai |
| A hentai could totally be like a "normal" "serious" anime but instead of a slowly growing romance that may never bloom, add sex scenes because that hero doesn't care about relationships and just want someone else who also wants to get dirty. It would be a hentai but it would be serious. |
| It is not necessary for an anime to have many episodes to be a masterpiece, and many of these hentai are adapted from doujinshi, and these people usually do not have much time to devote to this. |
| @Pullman I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't like that attitude. Porn/Hentai is more than just a tag, it's a field, it's a brand of logic, it's a legacy. If a creator who has worked in porn all his life suddenly decides he wants to make something more emotionally engaging, building on his existing experience, if something that clearly originates from the genre that is porn has interesting ideas and artistic value, isn't it arrogant to then say that it's 'not porn anymore'? Also, I think arousal is in itself an emotion and can theoretically be used within a narrative in combination with other emotions, and a good way to create arousal is explicit sex. I think showing the genitals in a sex scene vs. not showing them has a lot more artistic implications than you might think. |
coenraedMay 8, 2017 10:17 AM
| Do you watch Porn for the plot? No? Then you shouldn't expect it from hentai. Sex has a lot of emotion tied into it? Sure, in real life. Not applicable to hentai and porn. If you want sex with meaning, just watch normal anime. There are many romance anime for that. |
 |
Pullman said: Mystifire said: @Pullman I realize sex does not always automatically mean porn, but for something to contain sex there's a lot of limitations for it before suddenly it has to have the ratings of porn. I acknowledge my phrasing probably could've been better, but relating it to terms of anime here on MAL, I'm talking about anime that would have the "Hentai" tag due to how involved or explicit the sex in it is, but not necessarily created for the purposes of traditional "porn". My point is that something like that shouldn't exist. Hentai tag should only be applied to what qualifies as actual porn, otherwise just put a R+ rating on the show but without the hentai tag. I know what you means, I was just pointing out how it makes no sense for me for that to be a thing. Right now you still have stuff like Kanashimi no Belladonna and the other two movies of that 'trilogy' (Cleopatra and 1001 Nights) being tagged as hentai despite being arthouse films with cinematic releases. So try and checking out those, but I'm not sure it's what you're looking for because they're, well, arthouse movies and very experimental. But I'm hoping that the hentai tags get removed soon, I alread talked with some mods about. There's also the more popular method of showing the act, just not showing the actual genitalia. You see it in western live action all the time and even a few anime have sex scenes like that when it fits the story. Most recently I remember it in Onihei. I'd be hard-pressed to think of a scenario where a sex scene has to be shown in graphic detail including the genitalia to have the necessary impact on the story tho, so to me that is the best solution of combining sex scenes and being focused on story/characters, not porn. But you seem to be looking for actual, visible penetration which is what would require a R+ rating. May I ask why just seeing the sex scene from behind, or the top, or with the genitalia hidden under the sheets isn't enough? What does it add to make scenes like that actually pornographic in nature? I'm sure we could come up with a bunch of recs for sex scenes like that but when you require them to be more explicit than necessary almost only porn will fit those requirements. You do have a point yes, but I think our disagreement here still stems from maybe just my original phrasing. I guess ultimately what I'm trying to say is that if it's possible for an anime to be made that focuses on sex close to as much as Hentai does, but with a much more serious tone to it, while still be well respected and liked by a larger audience. Or would it be doomed to always be thought of as semi-hentai trash similar to that of things like Yosuga no Sora (although admittedly the story of that one is weak to begin with). |
Deknijff said: JustALEX said: from what I've heard some girls from GOT has done porn so maybe Do you think Porn Stars can be treated as serious actors? I think only 1 major character did porn and she was OK... It was the chick that was banging Tyrion. Ironically she was a "whore" in the show. |
--ALEX--May 8, 2017 12:32 PM
Mystifire said: [b]EDIT: Long story short, I would really like to see some anime that use sex more as something to enhance a story rather than to enhance the firmness of one's trouser snake. Do you think this is possible, or is Hentai dug itself too far into a whole to ever be taken seriously enough? Mystifire - I am not a big hentai fan or viewer but I have seen few and two of them were not just shallow. Sex was complementing the story and was not the main point. One was: Slave Sisters - this is not average hentai just to get your rocks off. It is drama to the point where last scene just destroyes your heart. Other was: Onna Kyoushi Yumi no Houkago - this story is also good, it is about teacher, maybe it was in other productions too or it may be even a standard but this one I found particularly sad and it had me depressed for days. I havent seen many more so I am not trying to be smart but I think there are hentais that are much more than just sex but also as a genre hentai probably will not be taken seriously because of budget and story in most. So it is porn and it is never taken seriously with that rare exceptions. I think this is how it is going to stay. |
| It's possible but the production value will always be the biggest hindrance because Hentai can't air on TV, so it's hard to put a big money on hentai project. Kuzu no Honkai will be the bext example, it could be a good hentai if they extend all of it sex scene, it had a decent plot but would also be a perfect fap material, not that it is not a fap maetrial the way it is tho. |
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| The only example I can say I've seen was A Kite, and it did it really well. I've heard there are a few good ones out there where the penetration is just progressing story. |
| I don't think hentai will ever be considered as a serious genre. If a hentai had a plot with character growth and what have you, the majority of its audience would probably just skip to the porn part. People watch hentai for the porn, not for its plot. That being said, if hentai with plots became more mainstream, I would definitely try it out. And this is coming from a person who doesn't normally watch hentai. |
| Hentai would be way more awesome if it had a 10/10 romantic storyline, something like White Album 2 but if we could actually seeing the fucking... that would be so nice. |
| Maybe they started adapting better manga and less nukiges or anthology tankoubons. |
| Probably not, the majority of hentai are based on H-manga, and it's usually only the popular H-manga that get an adaption. Since, most Japanese only look to H-manga to fap I don't think it will happen. |
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| some can mezzo forte started out hentai but went to anime, and reverse princess lover started out anime and went to hentai and there are plenty of visual novels with H content but the story is serious. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
Mystifire said: EDIT: To clarify a bit, I'm moreso asking if you think it's possible that an anime focuses and shows sex to similar amounts as Hentai does, but be taken much more seriously, or is it just doomed to be considered basically a typical Hentai. With how Hentai is now, 99% of them have overly simple and nonsensical plots, since the point really is to just get your rocks off. However I've always wondered if it's possible for Hentai to be taken more serious and used to enhance an actually competent plot instead of just fap material. Sex is something with a lot of emotion tied to it, whether it's good emotions because you're making love with someone you care deeply about, or bad emotions due to being raped or cheated on. And sure, you can cover those topics without actually showing the act, but actually including them can also really add to the impact of those emotions for the viewer if done correctly. Long story short, I would really like to see some anime that use sex more as something to enhance a story rather than to enhance the firmness of one's trouser snake. Do you think this is possible, or is Hentai dug itself too far into a whole to ever be taken seriously enough? https://myanimelist.net/manga/65981/Henshin ^^^^^ that, has a story, an actual story, sure it's simple and overly dramatic, but it has a clear message, talks about serious issues, and is a passable story, not anime, but still hentai, |
| Hottest Take Ever, fite me: Fairy Tail is better than Seiya, Bungou Stray and Hitman Reborn |
| I just came too say that Mankitsu Happening indeed has better cast of romantic comedy then most actual casts in romantic comedy anime. Also the blonde girl Otona with probably 1 of best bodies in any hentai/anime. Stuff like that i can take half seriously thats a start, 1 of rare examples where i watched every scene in every episode. |
 |
| I watch hentai for the plot. not that plot! [asspic] but rape incest harem love vanilla etc are plot elements too. if I want to watch a harem anime, my choices is either the shit mainstream garbage like nisekoi or a hentai. mainstream harem mc's are cucks who get beaten up by bitches and never get laid. in a harem hentai he has sex with all the girls! and might actually pick the best girl in the end. [or knocks them all up] sure sometimes I watch the sex scenes only to fap but the whole episode? half of it is ppl talking n such? of course the plot. |
| I think that's why there's series that are considered borderline-hentai. If I am not mistaken correctly, Kuzu no Honkai "focuses" on the sexual stuff but then mixed with a bunch of stuff, and then mixed with the "I'll think of you as onii-chan so we can fuck right now" kind of fetish, and there's the fappable sensei... And then.. ohhh yah... I forgot to continue that series... :/ |
| A hentai, by definition, serves no narrative purpose. Its only purpose is to gratify. It is a tool, not a piece of art. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| I'm perfectly capable of being entertained by both the shallow and complex. |
| "Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them." -Souske Aizen "Bleach"  |
| Why is this a question? Like i legit do not understand what is there to discuss about this. |
| The beauty of humans is that they say one thing then do another, but at the same time that can also be their ugliest side. |
| nope because Hentai in my opinion was made to just get people's meat hard. They would be way too horny to want to sit down and watch porn with a story and a good plot. so Hentai will never be taken seriously. |
AyameTomoko said: TheBrainintheJar said: A hentai, by definition, serves no narrative purpose. Its only purpose is to gratify. It is a tool, not a piece of art. And what is the purpose of art in your opinion? Art is in an expression of human experience using various media (Visual and aural mainly). |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| No, at least not on MAL. Seeing as how anything sexual is considered fanservice on here. Even if said sexual situations is a genuine part of the plot. |
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