So what about you?
| Seeing how we have had two recent threads about animation I thought I'd ask this First let me just say this so you can get a general idea of what I'm asking. As we know when it comes to shows that are very loved in this community such as Cowboy Bebop and Fate Zero one very common thing you will see people praise is their animation, especially Bebop since it was hand drawn But what happens when people talk about shows they don't like or didn't enjoy? Im just going to speak from personal experience here now but when I talk to friends who don't like my favourite anime Ive had one say it has terrible animation especially when compared to other shows from 2005 and I had another friend who liked the first two seasons but not the third saying the animation was lower quality than the first two and that they replaced it with just flashing colours Then you'll also have people say stuff like this when discussing about a show they aren't enjoying I just wanted some good action scenes But the animation is garbage Unlike the first season this prequel has garbage animation deal with it (anyone who has eyes can realise that) You also have people who hate or love Sword Art Online saying either that it has terrible animation or has really fluid animation as an example. Now I'm not saying a person can't say a show has bad animation since that is sometimes just a fact but do you feel people will criticise the animation quality of a series they don't like just for the sake of doing so even if its true or not for the anime in question? |
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| i mean... why limit to animation, people criticise shit about the show they dislike but will excuse the same shit that happen in their fav show |
| Hottest Take Ever, fite me: Fairy Tail is better than Seiya, Bungou Stray and Hitman Reborn |
| Insult for the sake of getting a reaction, it really shows how willing you are to defend your opinion. |
| I think animation quality is one of the few things that can be objectively evaluated. People tend to confuse artstyle with animation imho. |
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| i dislike glasslip to the core... i can't deny the visual was soo amazing... but oh well... people oftenly influenced by overall enjoyment impact but oftenly reject it because such a trivial things like "objectivity"... if a series is shit, then everything about it is shit... that's part of human nature to do justification... Johnnyd3rp said: I think animation quality is one of the few things that can be objectively evaluated. People tend to confuse artstyle with animation imho. as fluidity, and less animation error? yes... but how it used, what kind of style it was, and is it fit with the story or not is different question that i doubt objectivity can answer it which the main point animation visual anyways... |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Askorti said: When it comes to SAO, people often first decide that they don't like it and only later look for the reasons to justify it. That's where most of the BS arguments on "why SAO sucks" come from. People try their best to find faults in it, whether it makes sense or not. People act like it's the worst anime of all time lol. It wasn't even that bad to begin with. It had good art and music to boot. |
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| OP, are you talking about insults to a specific anime's animation or just the anime in question? I'm honestly confused by how the question doesn't match the thread's title. |
 One man is no more than another, if he do no more than what another does. |
Noesnecesario said: well Im kind of asking how often you feel is the correlation between seeing someone hate a series and in turn then saying the animation of said show is terribleOP, are you talking about insults to a specific anime's animation or just the anime in question? I'm honestly confused by how the question doesn't match the title's thread. |
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Johnnyd3rp said: I think animation quality is one of the few things that can be objectively evaluated. People tend to confuse artstyle with animation imho. Yes they do. And infact thats very common. One should ask before they start "arguing", what is animation to you? |
Johnnyd3rp said: I think animation quality is one of the few things that can be objectively evaluated. How would you go about doing that, out of curiosity? |
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| If someone hated SAO because "terrible animation" then that only confirms their shit opinions. SAO has plenty of flaws, but animation isn't one of them. Yes these things happen often, but it only confirms how bad those people are at analyzing. And the likelihood of me giving a fuck in what they write lessens(I have a mental list of posters whose opinions I don't even bother with anymore) I mean if I can find flaws with series I give 10s and positives to ones I give ones, if someone resorts to empty analysis just to say something about series they dislike/like only goes to show how much mental capacity they have in analysing anime, which directly translate to how worthy are their opinions to my eyes. But Glasslip has only above average visuals. While the backgrounds are superb, the character animations are average and sometimes go off-model (plus the abundance of stills) |
| Ohhh, the two threads you mentoon can be interpreted as "shitposting for thr sake of shitposting"... |
Deknijff said: Noesnecesario said: well Im kind of asking how often you feel is the correlation between seeing someone hate a series and in turn then saying the animation of said show is terribleOP, are you talking about insults to a specific anime's animation or just the anime in question? I'm honestly confused by how the question doesn't match the title's thread. I don't think there's any direct relationship,but there can be two kind of cases, when the animation is bad and the person in question hates the show because of it, or the "insulter" just wants to say it as a justification instead or just saying "It's shit". |
| One man is no more than another, if he do no more than what another does. |
Manaban said: Johnnyd3rp said: I think animation quality is one of the few things that can be objectively evaluated. How would you go about doing that, out of curiosity? Fluidity or if the characters don't go off-model can be evaluated then like Kuma said the style and if it fits the show ecc... is subjective. |
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| Animation is one of the most objective categories of anime. I don't think you can trashtalk shows you don't like for that particular reason alone. The "insult for the sake of insulting" is more common for more subjective matters if you ask me It's not uncommon for terrible anime to still have really good animation and vice versa |
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| You should be able to trash talk about "a show's animation" as much as you like...It doesnt mean the show itself is bad...So its fine... HaXXspetten said: Animation is one of the most objective categories of anime. It's not uncommon for terrible anime to still have really good animation and vice versa ^ |
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| I think the opposite is more often the case - when fanboys deny obvious flaws in their favorite shows regardless of how apparent they are. Its also possible for these people you mentioned that the animation is the only thing and enough for them to dislike/hate an anime. |
 Oshii is probably the only director that loves dogs. He thinks he's a dog himself. That's right, its slime! It will dissolve your clothing slowly before my eyes! |
Deknijff said: Seeing how we have had two recent threads about animation I thought I'd ask this First let me just say this so you can get a general idea of what I'm asking. As we know when it comes to shows that are very loved in this community such as Cowboy Bebop and Fate Zero one very common thing you will see people praise is their animation, especially Bebop since it was hand drawn But what happens when people talk about shows they don't like or didn't enjoy? Im just going to speak from personal experience here now but when I talk to friends who don't like my favourite anime Ive had one say it has terrible animation especially when compared to other shows from 2005 and I had another friend who liked the first two seasons but not the third saying the animation was lower quality than the first two and that they replaced it with just flashing colours . Then you'll also have people say stuff like this when discussing about a show they aren't enjoying I just wanted some good action scenes But the animation is garbage Unlike the first season this prequel has garbage animation deal with it (anyone who has eyes can realise that) You also have people who hate or love Sword Art Online saying either that it has terrible animation or has really fluid animation as an example. Now I'm not saying a person can't say a show has bad animation since that is sometimes just a fact but do you feel people will criticise the animation quality of a series they don't like just for the sake of doing so even if its true or not for the anime in question?I feel it's more that people will automatically praise the animation quality of something they like even if it isn't that special in that regard. They tell themselves that they only like good animation, so when they like something it has to have good animation (even when it actually doesn't really stand out in that department). Like Ufotable fanboys and a lot of SAO-ish A-1 Pictures shows which definitely all look decent but aren't really that memorable for their animation quality. They just have clean art, lots of filters and special effects that make sure there is always something going on on screen even if the actual animation is just standard and people think that makes for good animation. And then you get the people who say Ping Pong has shitty animation. They'd probably call anything that looks different 'bad animation', for example everything this guy does because his style is sketchy, fluent and movement-oriented (kinda like Ping Pong): Because they have no idea what they are talking about. In general while animation is a pretty straight-forward aspect that can be judged fairly objectively once you get acquainted with what it is all about, most people never get acquainted with it and just judge based on instincts who tell them that being colorful, HD, and having clean designs = good animation. They underestimate what animation is all about and think they can accurately judge it without ever learning what it is really about and keep using it as a substitute for artstyle or visuals in general. In general people need to be more aware of how the whole anime medium is inherently built around sub-par animation based on techniques for saving money. No matter how good a TV series is animated 80% of it will still be mouth flaps, stills, pans, minimal movement, repeat frames, 12 or even 8 fps instead of 24 etc... Even stuff like being offmodel is extremely common when you have a million different animators animating the same character in every episode from all kinds of angles. It's just something that can easily be overlooked. If you get 20% sakuga that's already an amazing show, most show's don't have more than, idk, 5%. Many just don't have sakuga at all. So yeah I don't get why the people who allegedly care about animation more than anything (because it's a visual medium) would choose the animation medium with the overall worst animation quality, at least when it comes to TV series. If I want good animation I watch movies, not TV anime because the latter barely ever provide it in the first place, at least not in any consistent way. And I think that relates to what you said too because given the fact that most TV animation is budget-saving techniques it's easy to say something has bad animation if you want to. Most shows aren't really that impressive in that regard. Selective perception just allows people to ignore it when they like the story and characters but when they don't find anything that draws them in they will shit on the animation. In my opinion the only studio that really deserves its reputation for high quality, consistent animation is KyoAni. They can do a lot of stuff other studios just can't. You rarely see so much focus on small details outside of movies. Like subtle facial expressions or body language. They don't have the most impressive action sakuga, but their character animations are always on top and full of small, subtle movements. Nichijou is probably the most consistent fluidly animated anime TV series out there. This classic video gives some nice insight into what actually matters in animation beyond just the amount of FPS. Once you pay attention lots of animation in anime really fails at doing a proper job at some of these basics of movement. And it really makes you appreciate classics like Akira and how great that movie is at portraying stuff like weight and momentum. Only the best animators can pull that off so convincingly, but they can't work on every anime. https://vimeo.com/93206523 |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| The op spends a good deal of time in his cuck tent while I fuck his GF ;) Sorry I though you were looking for insults. |
| If a show has good animation (not artsyle), then I will say it's good even if I don't like the series. I don't like Guilty Crown at all, but one thing I cannot deny is that the series has amazing visuals. |
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Illyricus said: If a show has good animation (not artsyle), then I will say it's good even if I don't like the series. I don't like Guilty Crown at all, but one thing I cannot deny is that the series has amazing visuals. From what I remember GC had really crisp visuals, lots of filters and effects and stuff, but the actual animation was just okay for a high-budget production (aka above average but not really particularly impressive). |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Pullman said: I'm no expert in the matter (for that thing I said "visuals" instead of "animation"), and, as far as I remember, Guilty Crown looked okay during the non-action scenes, but really, really beautiful during the action scenes or key moments (because the effects and filters you mentioned).Illyricus said: If a show has good animation (not artsyle), then I will say it's good even if I don't like the series. I don't like Guilty Crown at all, but one thing I cannot deny is that the series has amazing visuals. From what I remember GC had really crisp visuals, lots of filters and effects and stuff, but the actual animation was just okay for a high-budget production (aka above average but not really particularly impressive). Anyway, if what I had wrote above is wrong, I take back my words. |
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| yep , a lot of people use it just for the sake of hating there is a lot of anime i dislike but i cant deny they have even better animation than my fav |
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| its pretty damn obvious some people make certain criticisms just to piss of the fanbases if not, why would the SAO is trash meme not be dead? as if SAO committed some kind of crime |
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HaXXspetten said: Thank you for your thoughts HaXX and indeed that one thing alone isn't enough to trash talk a show but I feel it is added in for the sake of it for whatever reason so to have a longer argument as to why a show is badAnimation is one of the most objective categories of anime. I don't think you can trashtalk shows you don't like for that particular reason alone. The "insult for the sake of insulting" is more common for more subjective matters if you ask me DEGOZAURUS said: Well certainly there are people like that out there too but I see that a lot less I think the opposite is more often the case - when fanboys deny obvious flaws in their favorite shows regardless of how apparent they are. Its also possible for these people you mentioned that the animation is the only thing and enough for them to dislike/hate an anime. Kurtvonschroeder said: the true insult is bringing up GFs when I don't have one ;_;The op spends a good deal of time in his cuck tent while I fuck his GF ;) Sorry I though you were looking for insults Illyricus said: well its good you don't let your emotions get in the way Illyricus but when it comes to shows I don't like and like animation or art style matters so little to me If a show has good animation (not artsyle), then I will say it's good even if I don't like the series. I don't like Guilty Crown at all, but one thing I cannot deny is that the series has amazing visuals. Im reminded of when I finished season 1 of SNAFU then telling my friend I found it to be terrible and he said I should give season 2 a try because it looks nicer I was honestly surprised and just said what does that matter when the characters are boring or just straight up annoying for the whole series? and thank you for your usual very long in depth thoughts @Pullman ,it was a very interesting read @Brb I for the most part feel the same |
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Deknijff said: I think I worded my words wrong here. What I mean is that if I don't like the show, but that show has good animation, I will accept the animation is good, tha animation, not the series.Illyricus said: well its good you don't let your emotions get in the way Illyricus but when it comes to shows I don't like and like animation or art style matters so little to me If a show has good animation (not artsyle), then I will say it's good even if I don't like the series. I don't like Guilty Crown at all, but one thing I cannot deny is that the series has amazing visuals. Im reminded of when I finished season 1 of SNAFU then telling my friend I found it to be terrible and he said I should give season 2 a try because it looks nicer I was honestly surprised and just said what does that matter when the characters are boring or just straight up annoying for the whole series? Of course, if I dislike a series, it doesn't matters if the visuals are Godly, I will still dislike it, but I will praise the visuals too. |
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Illyricus said: no worries man I got that from the start so you didn't word it wrong. I just said its good you don't say a small good part is garbage just because you dislike the larger pictureDeknijff said: I think I worded my words wrong here. What I mean is that if I don't like the show, but that show has good animation, I will accept the animation is good, tha animation, not the series.well its good you don't let your emotions get in the way Illyricus but when it comes to shows I don't like and like animation or art style matters so little to me Im reminded of when I finished season 1 of SNAFU then telling my friend I found it to be terrible and he said I should give season 2 a try because it looks nicer I was honestly surprised and just said what does that matter when the characters are boring or just straight up annoying for the whole series? Of course, if I dislike a series, it doesn't matters if the visuals are Godly, I will still dislike it, but I will praise the visuals too. |
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| It's a human thing to look for the bad side of things they dislike. And if they can't find anything bad enough to prove their point, they'll just randomly pick something to satisfy the need to say "i didn't like it/i hated it. Using myself as an example: No matter how much i dislike sports anime, i can't say something like Haikyuu has a bad animation. Though deep inside my mind i can think of a thousand of little details that i could use as an excuse to say it's bad. |
Deknijff said: Oh, I see then.Illyricus said: no worries man I got that from the start so you didn't word it wrong. I just said its good you don't say a small good part is garbage just because you dislike the larger pictureI think I worded my words wrong here. What I mean is that if I don't like the show, but that show has good animation, I will accept the animation is good, tha animation, not the series. Of course, if I dislike a series, it doesn't matters if the visuals are Godly, I will still dislike it, but I will praise the visuals too. Well, I tend to be positive while rating animes and I try to look the things a series did well even if I dislike it. That, and that, generally, I try to not sound too hateful when I bitch about something. |
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| As a bunch of people mentionned here, most people just can't tell the difference between good and bad animation, or don't even know what animation means. Lots of filters and pretty colors = sexy animation. So OP, yes, I see what you describe quite often. People praising the animation of shows just because they have sexy backgrounds (Spice and Wolf) or bashing shows with great animation because they don't like the art style (anything old and well animated tbh) The funny thing is, not only do they fail to understand what animation is, but they also criticize art styles in ways that are completely irrelevant. Wether you thought the art style was horseshit or not, I don't give a fuck. The same people also think "hey, the OP and ED are good, 8/10 soundtrack" is some legit criticism. It's fucking dumb! >:c What's relevant when analyzing/criticizing/whatevering art styles and soundtracks is how they're used and the pertinence of it, etc. You disliked the art style? Great, but you'll have to find reasons why it doesn't fit, or simply avoid criticizing it, or I'll just never take you seriously. The whole point of discussing chinese cartoons is to understand the reasons why you like or dislike them; accepting "I dun like it so it is shit" as an argument completely defeats the purpose of having any discussion. I also love the "I rate based on enjoyment" repeated like a mantra by some people on MAL, like it'll protect them from having to think about what they watch. Too bad the mean elitists actually use arguments when discussing animu :'c |
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Brb said: But Glasslip has only above average visuals. While the backgrounds are superb, the character animations are average and sometimes go off-model (plus the abundance of stills) not really, of course if you comparing something like nichijou, of course it far below it... but it's already far better then your average SOL... the fluidity was pretty good... also i don't remember the off model was that bad... it's pretty solid... |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Clebardman said: My thoughts exactly. Minus the cute emotes, since I'm not that cute.As a bunch of people mentionned here, most people just can't tell the difference between good and bad animation, or don't even know what animation means. Lots of filters and pretty colors = sexy animation. So OP, yes, I see what you describe quite often. People praising the animation of shows just because they have sexy backgrounds (Spice and Wolf) or bashing shows with great animation because they don't like the art style (anything old and well animated tbh) The funny thing is, not only do they fail to understand what animation is, but they also criticize art styles in ways that are completely irrelevant. Wether you thought the art style was horseshit or not, I don't give a fuck. The same people also think "hey, the OP and ED are good, 8/10 soundtrack" is some legit criticism. It's fucking dumb! >:c What's relevant when analyzing/criticizing/whatevering art styles and soundtracks is how they're used and the pertinence of it, etc. You disliked the art style? Great, but you'll have to find reasons why it doesn't fit, or simply avoid criticizing it, or I'll just never take you seriously. The whole point of discussing chinese cartoons is to understand the reasons why you like or dislike them; accepting "I dun like it so it is shit" as an argument completely defeats the purpose of having any discussion. I also love the "I rate based on enjoyment" repeated like a mantra by some people on MAL, like it'll protect them from having to think about what they watch. Too bad the mean elitists actually use arguments when discussing animu :'c And everyone rates based on enjoyment, ironically. It's just that people who don't understand what they like just blanketly say enjoyment (and the opposite is true, to an extent). |
| I think you should stop worrying why people criticize, and instead seek to understand their opinions, ask questions and challenge both of you. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| It makes me wonder too why some people are wasting their time throwing insults just because x likes y but z disapproves. I wouldn't mind if the insult is a fair criticism towards an anime quality but to even include the fanbase of that anime? I think that is just getting a tad too far. |
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