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Jan 26, 2017 1:46 AM
#1
THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER. ---------------------------------------- That leader of the Diamond Army guy underestimated Esta tbh. I knew his offer would get rejected though. Such an obvious trap. I predict his defeat next chapter unless something surprising happens. |
Jan 26, 2017 2:24 AM
#2
A good chapter from Black Clover. The leader of the Diamond Army is a complete stupid to believe that Asta is going to join your Diamond Army. He probably be defeat in next week chapter |
Jan 26, 2017 3:25 AM
#3
I read a comment that said something along the lines of " with every chapter this feels more and more like 'how to draw a shounen manga' " and I have to agree very strongly. There is nothing wrong with sticking to the storytelling methods of other Jump Classics and employing cliche Shonen tropes is inevitable but the story is structured in such a way that it feels like a lackluster copycat without any real essence or originality to it! This had been a problem from the very beginning of the series (and even prior to that in the author's previous work) but now that I've caught up with the recent chapters and can't just bingeread my way through; this becomes even more apparent~ (I know many people defend Black Clover by bringing up its popularity due to the comparatively high rankings but that's not my point here) |
Jan 26, 2017 5:40 AM
#4
wow, this chapter soo well delivered... it feel too freaking short! asto trowhing his sword without hesitate is soo damn savage.... it's also nice to see villian admit he does done slip out and carried away by the advantage he is given... instead only "masaka"... i also like how fight really done "just like that"... it feels more natural than dragging it... make me remember WT.. T_T... please be always healty tabata sensei, so don't ended up like asahira sensei... and i hope asahira can get healthy soon too... mah boy asta ripped AF... Jacksnapp said: I read a comment that said something along the lines of " with every chapter this feels more and more like 'how to draw a shounen manga' " and I have to agree very strongly. There is nothing wrong with sticking to the storytelling methods of other Jump Classics and employing cliche Shonen tropes is inevitable but the story is structured in such a way that it feels like a lackluster copycat without any real essence or originality to it! This had been a problem from the very beginning of the series (and even prior to that in the author's previous work) but now that I've caught up with the recent chapters and can't just bingeread my way through; this becomes even more apparent~ ehh... can you discribe what even copycat to begin with? it sure does still following general trope (like lot of other series which highly priseed too, really)... however, i like it because actually delivered in colorful ways... for example, like what i mentioned above... |
KumaJan 26, 2017 5:47 AM
Jan 27, 2017 11:06 AM
#5
Kuma said: wow, this chapter soo well delivered... it feel too freaking short! asto trowhing his sword without hesitate is soo damn savage.... it's also nice to see villian admit he does done slip out and carried away by the advantage he is given... instead only "masaka"... i also like how fight really done "just like that"... it feels more natural than dragging it... make me remember WT.. T_T... please be always healty tabata sensei, so don't ended up like asahira sensei... and i hope asahira can get healthy soon too... mah boy asta ripped AF... Jacksnapp said: I read a comment that said something along the lines of " with every chapter this feels more and more like 'how to draw a shounen manga' " and I have to agree very strongly. There is nothing wrong with sticking to the storytelling methods of other Jump Classics and employing cliche Shonen tropes is inevitable but the story is structured in such a way that it feels like a lackluster copycat without any real essence or originality to it! This had been a problem from the very beginning of the series (and even prior to that in the author's previous work) but now that I've caught up with the recent chapters and can't just bingeread my way through; this becomes even more apparent~ ehh... can you discribe what even copycat to begin with? it sure does still following general trope (like lot of other series which highly priseed too, really)... however, i like it because actually delivered in colorful ways... for example, like what i mentioned above... I totally agree with you; Black Clover perfectly follows the mainstream Shonen rulebook. And like you said, other series which have employed similar storytelling structures have often received very high praise. But my problem with Black Clover is that it doesn't add anything new at all It just doesn't stand out as a work with its own 'identity' and reminds me more of a mashup of other popular titles (not even restricted to the magazine, shonen series in general). I'm not even referring to the ideas and concepts, it might be an exaggeration to put it this way but I often can't help but feel that most ideas have already been done and you can't really come up with anything new. More important than the idea is the execution and Black Clover is playing it way too safe in my opinion. People often bring up Hunter x Hunter as a prime example for a "subversive" "deconstructive" Weekly Shonen Jump series- I personally don't agree with that statement, HxH isn't really subvertive with its tropes but instead it knows how to play around with its structure a lot and keep the readers entertained and interested (and surprised). Black Clover on the other hand, (at least in my case) completely fails to surprise me with anything. By relying so heavily on the legacy of other Shonen series, each and every fight becomes predictable or even if the author does something unexpected, the emotional connection is still totally lost most of the time I'm not sure if I understood your comment on this chapter (please correct me if I'm wrong) but I think you praised it for having the villain get carried away by their advantage and admit to making hasty mistakes (?) Is that what you mean by colorful delivery? Because that doesn't come off as anything special to me; I feel like I've seen this way done a lot of times especially in older Shonen anime....And even if that is an improvement from other series; it doesn't help Black Clover over all; it's just a tiny part of a boring fight with a bad villain in an average series~ So it does make sense that Black Clover is popular but it just fails to really add anything new or interesting to the manga landscape and just stays in a comfortable zone of completely copying what other successful shonen series have done (without ever risking to at least try something different), which is the reason for why I called it a copycat that just borrows from everyone else without any original content. |
Jan 27, 2017 6:41 PM
#6
Jacksnapp said: Kuma said: wow, this chapter soo well delivered... it feel too freaking short! asto trowhing his sword without hesitate is soo damn savage.... it's also nice to see villian admit he does done slip out and carried away by the advantage he is given... instead only "masaka"... i also like how fight really done "just like that"... it feels more natural than dragging it... make me remember WT.. T_T... please be always healty tabata sensei, so don't ended up like asahira sensei... and i hope asahira can get healthy soon too... mah boy asta ripped AF... Jacksnapp said: I read a comment that said something along the lines of " with every chapter this feels more and more like 'how to draw a shounen manga' " and I have to agree very strongly. There is nothing wrong with sticking to the storytelling methods of other Jump Classics and employing cliche Shonen tropes is inevitable but the story is structured in such a way that it feels like a lackluster copycat without any real essence or originality to it! This had been a problem from the very beginning of the series (and even prior to that in the author's previous work) but now that I've caught up with the recent chapters and can't just bingeread my way through; this becomes even more apparent~ ehh... can you discribe what even copycat to begin with? it sure does still following general trope (like lot of other series which highly priseed too, really)... however, i like it because actually delivered in colorful ways... for example, like what i mentioned above... I totally agree with you; Black Clover perfectly follows the mainstream Shonen rulebook. And like you said, other series which have employed similar storytelling structures have often received very high praise. But my problem with Black Clover is that it doesn't add anything new at all It just doesn't stand out as a work with its own 'identity' and reminds me more of a mashup of other popular titles (not even restricted to the magazine, shonen series in general). I'm not even referring to the ideas and concepts, it might be an exaggeration to put it this way but I often can't help but feel that most ideas have already been done and you can't really come up with anything new. More important than the idea is the execution and Black Clover is playing it way too safe in my opinion. People often bring up Hunter x Hunter as a prime example for a "subversive" "deconstructive" Weekly Shonen Jump series- I personally don't agree with that statement, HxH isn't really subvertive with its tropes but instead it knows how to play around with its structure a lot and keep the readers entertained and interested (and surprised). Black Clover on the other hand, (at least in my case) completely fails to surprise me with anything. By relying so heavily on the legacy of other Shonen series, each and every fight becomes predictable or even if the author does something unexpected, the emotional connection is still totally lost most of the time I'm not sure if I understood your comment on this chapter (please correct me if I'm wrong) but I think you praised it for having the villain get carried away by their advantage and admit to making hasty mistakes (?) Is that what you mean by colorful delivery? Because that doesn't come off as anything special to me; I feel like I've seen this way done a lot of times especially in older Shonen anime....And even if that is an improvement from other series; it doesn't help Black Clover over all; it's just a tiny part of a boring fight with a bad villain in an average series~ So it does make sense that Black Clover is popular but it just fails to really add anything new or interesting to the manga landscape and just stays in a comfortable zone of completely copying what other successful shonen series have done (without ever risking to at least try something different), which is the reason for why I called it a copycat that just borrows from everyone else without any original content. your concept or "originality" is too strict.. you wouldn't entertained in the saturated medium like anime/manga if read enough amount of any genre... yes it's not bring something new if pick point solely by trope it used... however, the way of it executed as overall product is far more important that what composition it used for it... surprise is not what this series supposed to do... you are expecting something that what this series not intended to be... it's intense and hype for waiting something that we already know and how it deliver... everyone already know the destination, doesn't mean the journey isn't important at all... the journey is what this series supposed to be excelent... and it's deliver... that's what important... for example i given above, if we take a look what villian do, they oftenly have too much superiority sense and being denial if their plan fail (like most villian in shounen, really, even FMAor HxH) .. however, in here, he immediatly realize that he done something wrong and underestimate our MC... here is lies "originality" i want, something that i never see in the way trope excetued, not how trope self showing it outcome... sure, black clover doesn't give surprise, but that not what this series try to achive and i don't necessary see it important for this series trying to do that... it sure doesn't give anything new to tabble, but it's intense and entertaing a lot for me... but that's what a series supposed to do right? |
Jan 28, 2017 1:32 PM
#7
Kuma said: Jacksnapp said: Kuma said: wow, this chapter soo well delivered... it feel too freaking short! asto trowhing his sword without hesitate is soo damn savage.... it's also nice to see villian admit he does done slip out and carried away by the advantage he is given... instead only "masaka"... i also like how fight really done "just like that"... it feels more natural than dragging it... make me remember WT.. T_T... please be always healty tabata sensei, so don't ended up like asahira sensei... and i hope asahira can get healthy soon too... mah boy asta ripped AF... Jacksnapp said: I read a comment that said something along the lines of " with every chapter this feels more and more like 'how to draw a shounen manga' " and I have to agree very strongly. There is nothing wrong with sticking to the storytelling methods of other Jump Classics and employing cliche Shonen tropes is inevitable but the story is structured in such a way that it feels like a lackluster copycat without any real essence or originality to it! This had been a problem from the very beginning of the series (and even prior to that in the author's previous work) but now that I've caught up with the recent chapters and can't just bingeread my way through; this becomes even more apparent~ ehh... can you discribe what even copycat to begin with? it sure does still following general trope (like lot of other series which highly priseed too, really)... however, i like it because actually delivered in colorful ways... for example, like what i mentioned above... I totally agree with you; Black Clover perfectly follows the mainstream Shonen rulebook. And like you said, other series which have employed similar storytelling structures have often received very high praise. But my problem with Black Clover is that it doesn't add anything new at all It just doesn't stand out as a work with its own 'identity' and reminds me more of a mashup of other popular titles (not even restricted to the magazine, shonen series in general). I'm not even referring to the ideas and concepts, it might be an exaggeration to put it this way but I often can't help but feel that most ideas have already been done and you can't really come up with anything new. More important than the idea is the execution and Black Clover is playing it way too safe in my opinion. People often bring up Hunter x Hunter as a prime example for a "subversive" "deconstructive" Weekly Shonen Jump series- I personally don't agree with that statement, HxH isn't really subvertive with its tropes but instead it knows how to play around with its structure a lot and keep the readers entertained and interested (and surprised). Black Clover on the other hand, (at least in my case) completely fails to surprise me with anything. By relying so heavily on the legacy of other Shonen series, each and every fight becomes predictable or even if the author does something unexpected, the emotional connection is still totally lost most of the time I'm not sure if I understood your comment on this chapter (please correct me if I'm wrong) but I think you praised it for having the villain get carried away by their advantage and admit to making hasty mistakes (?) Is that what you mean by colorful delivery? Because that doesn't come off as anything special to me; I feel like I've seen this way done a lot of times especially in older Shonen anime....And even if that is an improvement from other series; it doesn't help Black Clover over all; it's just a tiny part of a boring fight with a bad villain in an average series~ So it does make sense that Black Clover is popular but it just fails to really add anything new or interesting to the manga landscape and just stays in a comfortable zone of completely copying what other successful shonen series have done (without ever risking to at least try something different), which is the reason for why I called it a copycat that just borrows from everyone else without any original content. your concept or "originality" is too strict.. you wouldn't entertained in the saturated medium like anime/manga if read enough amount of any genre... yes it's not bring something new if pick point solely by trope it used... however, the way of it executed as overall product is far more important that what composition it used for it... surprise is not what this series supposed to do... you are expecting something that what this series not intended to be... it's intense and hype for waiting something that we already know and how it deliver... everyone already know the destination, doesn't mean the journey isn't important at all... the journey is what this series supposed to be excelent... and it's deliver... that's what important... for example i given above, if we take a look what villian do, they oftenly have too much superiority sense and being denial if their plan fail (like most villian in shounen, really, even FMAor HxH) .. however, in here, he immediatly realize that he done something wrong and underestimate our MC... here is lies "originality" i want, something that i never see in the way trope excetued, not how trope self showing it outcome... sure, black clover doesn't give surprise, but that not what this series try to achive and i don't necessary see it important for this series trying to do that... it sure doesn't give anything new to tabble, but it's intense and entertaing a lot for me... but that's what a series supposed to do right? Thanks for clearing that up and I think I've gained a better understanding of your overall enjoyment of the series as well :) It's like you said, in order to write a good shonen manga you don't need to rely on surprises or do something unexpected, new. A series can be highly enjoyable by sticking to the basics; generating hype for a good delivery of something forseeable is the most important thing. I agree with that but I also think that that's exactly the reason for why I personally ( unfortunately ) can't enjoy Black Clover as much as you do. Whenever I read Black Clover, the thought of other Shonen series always comes up (regardless of BC's unique art style), I explained that it feels more like a mashup and nothing original. Therefore I find it hard to get attached to most characters and the fights just aren't as enjoyable. It just feels like a repetition; an almost exact copy of something I've already seen somewhere before. Not to say that other series don't have similar problems but for the most part, most authors try to "recycle" their own favorites and try to add something new or personal or at least lend a different standpoint. Black Clover doesn't. It feels like there's just nothing to gain from reading it. I agree that the journey is the most important part, not the destination; but that's exactly where Black Clover just fails me personally. Black Clover is not a bad series; I understand why it's so popular but the content is to me still often under-average or at least never above average judging from a critical standpoint. But thanks to your explanation, I can definitely see the appeal of Black Clover. Sadly, I just can't really apply the same enthusiasm when it comes to myself.I wish I could look forward to reading it as much as you do :) I'm certain that my standards might be a little too high but seeing how many other people comment on Black Clover being not as good as other Jump titles for similar reasons, I feel like at least I'm not the only one dissatisfied .. In the end it (like pretty much everything else) boils down to personal taste and experience with the media. I hope you can understand my point of view a little better, even if you don't agree ~ |
Jan 28, 2017 6:33 PM
#8
Jacksnapp said: Kuma said: Jacksnapp said: Kuma said: wow, this chapter soo well delivered... it feel too freaking short! asto trowhing his sword without hesitate is soo damn savage.... it's also nice to see villian admit he does done slip out and carried away by the advantage he is given... instead only "masaka"... i also like how fight really done "just like that"... it feels more natural than dragging it... make me remember WT.. T_T... please be always healty tabata sensei, so don't ended up like asahira sensei... and i hope asahira can get healthy soon too... mah boy asta ripped AF... Jacksnapp said: I read a comment that said something along the lines of " with every chapter this feels more and more like 'how to draw a shounen manga' " and I have to agree very strongly. There is nothing wrong with sticking to the storytelling methods of other Jump Classics and employing cliche Shonen tropes is inevitable but the story is structured in such a way that it feels like a lackluster copycat without any real essence or originality to it! This had been a problem from the very beginning of the series (and even prior to that in the author's previous work) but now that I've caught up with the recent chapters and can't just bingeread my way through; this becomes even more apparent~ ehh... can you discribe what even copycat to begin with? it sure does still following general trope (like lot of other series which highly priseed too, really)... however, i like it because actually delivered in colorful ways... for example, like what i mentioned above... I totally agree with you; Black Clover perfectly follows the mainstream Shonen rulebook. And like you said, other series which have employed similar storytelling structures have often received very high praise. But my problem with Black Clover is that it doesn't add anything new at all It just doesn't stand out as a work with its own 'identity' and reminds me more of a mashup of other popular titles (not even restricted to the magazine, shonen series in general). I'm not even referring to the ideas and concepts, it might be an exaggeration to put it this way but I often can't help but feel that most ideas have already been done and you can't really come up with anything new. More important than the idea is the execution and Black Clover is playing it way too safe in my opinion. People often bring up Hunter x Hunter as a prime example for a "subversive" "deconstructive" Weekly Shonen Jump series- I personally don't agree with that statement, HxH isn't really subvertive with its tropes but instead it knows how to play around with its structure a lot and keep the readers entertained and interested (and surprised). Black Clover on the other hand, (at least in my case) completely fails to surprise me with anything. By relying so heavily on the legacy of other Shonen series, each and every fight becomes predictable or even if the author does something unexpected, the emotional connection is still totally lost most of the time I'm not sure if I understood your comment on this chapter (please correct me if I'm wrong) but I think you praised it for having the villain get carried away by their advantage and admit to making hasty mistakes (?) Is that what you mean by colorful delivery? Because that doesn't come off as anything special to me; I feel like I've seen this way done a lot of times especially in older Shonen anime....And even if that is an improvement from other series; it doesn't help Black Clover over all; it's just a tiny part of a boring fight with a bad villain in an average series~ So it does make sense that Black Clover is popular but it just fails to really add anything new or interesting to the manga landscape and just stays in a comfortable zone of completely copying what other successful shonen series have done (without ever risking to at least try something different), which is the reason for why I called it a copycat that just borrows from everyone else without any original content. your concept or "originality" is too strict.. you wouldn't entertained in the saturated medium like anime/manga if read enough amount of any genre... yes it's not bring something new if pick point solely by trope it used... however, the way of it executed as overall product is far more important that what composition it used for it... surprise is not what this series supposed to do... you are expecting something that what this series not intended to be... it's intense and hype for waiting something that we already know and how it deliver... everyone already know the destination, doesn't mean the journey isn't important at all... the journey is what this series supposed to be excelent... and it's deliver... that's what important... for example i given above, if we take a look what villian do, they oftenly have too much superiority sense and being denial if their plan fail (like most villian in shounen, really, even FMAor HxH) .. however, in here, he immediatly realize that he done something wrong and underestimate our MC... here is lies "originality" i want, something that i never see in the way trope excetued, not how trope self showing it outcome... sure, black clover doesn't give surprise, but that not what this series try to achive and i don't necessary see it important for this series trying to do that... it sure doesn't give anything new to tabble, but it's intense and entertaing a lot for me... but that's what a series supposed to do right? Thanks for clearing that up and I think I've gained a better understanding of your overall enjoyment of the series as well :) It's like you said, in order to write a good shonen manga you don't need to rely on surprises or do something unexpected, new. A series can be highly enjoyable by sticking to the basics; generating hype for a good delivery of something forseeable is the most important thing. I agree with that but I also think that that's exactly the reason for why I personally ( unfortunately ) can't enjoy Black Clover as much as you do. Whenever I read Black Clover, the thought of other Shonen series always comes up (regardless of BC's unique art style), I explained that it feels more like a mashup and nothing original. Therefore I find it hard to get attached to most characters and the fights just aren't as enjoyable. It just feels like a repetition; an almost exact copy of something I've already seen somewhere before. Not to say that other series don't have similar problems but for the most part, most authors try to "recycle" their own favorites and try to add something new or personal or at least lend a different standpoint. Black Clover doesn't. It feels like there's just nothing to gain from reading it. I agree that the journey is the most important part, not the destination; but that's exactly where Black Clover just fails me personally. Black Clover is not a bad series; I understand why it's so popular but the content is to me still often under-average or at least never above average judging from a critical standpoint. But thanks to your explanation, I can definitely see the appeal of Black Clover. Sadly, I just can't really apply the same enthusiasm when it comes to myself.I wish I could look forward to reading it as much as you do :) I'm certain that my standards might be a little too high but seeing how many other people comment on Black Clover being not as good as other Jump titles for similar reasons, I feel like at least I'm not the only one dissatisfied .. In the end it (like pretty much everything else) boils down to personal taste and experience with the media. I hope you can understand my point of view a little better, even if you don't agree ~ yeah, in the end, it bow down to personal taste and i can't disagree with that... and well, if it's what originality you sarch, i only can suggest to move to another kind of series... however, people who dissapointed with this kind of series usually not the main target of this series to begin with... i mean, this series has really good WSJ ranking which mean mayority of WSJ magazine buyer satisfied with the way this series approach... that's what this series need to care and cater... |
Apr 25, 2019 9:31 AM
#9
Wow this guy is flat as can be. Not saying he's not embodied by real attributes but I'm tired of him. Yeah Asta throwing the sword is badass but you know, force to take down enemies. MEH. |
Apr 30, 2019 8:14 AM
#10
That was a quick and easy way to lay that ideo down. Still, it's far too easy for me to believe. |
Feb 18, 2020 7:36 PM
#11
I can't believe this guy actually thought asta would join him lemmaaoo |
Mar 23, 2020 5:04 PM
#12
Nice chapter there is no thing to say. |
Jul 11, 2022 8:22 PM
#13
Lol, Asta throwing his sword was hilarious. |
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