Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu Episode 17 Discussion

AmejiHunter said:


It says she comes from Re:Zero but I truly have no idea who that is. Never seen her. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Were you high or something when you made that? The only girl named Rem ( That's what it says on your profile ) I can think about is that shinigami in Death Note. You know, the one that, well, err... died?

namedrisk said:


Bad boys, bad boys
Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do
When they come for you

Bad boys, bad boys
Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do
When they come for you

Smudy said:

Say hi to 18 then xD

Devil_Slayer said:
Did emillia death had the sam impact as rem ? i know the dirctor's love rem more xD
but it's been while on emillia

namedrisk said:


Bad boys, bad boys
Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do
When they come for you

Bad boys, bad boys
Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do
When they come for you

Lord_Rutsah said:
PLEASE tell me the checkpoint hasn't been moved. Rem permadeath would be unbelievably sad. (couldn't care less about the others)

FragOutFire said:
Subaru should just try to explain his power again. Either he gets killed and goes back to the save point or he kills everyone else

Also, who's Rem?

Shrimperor said:
Question tough: Why is there a Waifu War? Rem is still clearly best girl.

Akai_Aoi said:


I don't think it's fair to weigh those two deaths the same way:

Rem's death was - narration-wise - set up to be a tearjerker, while Emilia's had no build-up whatsoever and had a whole other focus going in.

Shrimperor said:
Question tough: Why is there a Waifu War? Rem is still clearly best girl.
errmm
Who's Rem again?
Seriously tho, i wonder why Whale-san didn't kill Mitsubishi.

https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/4ue59d/spoilers_rezero_kara_hajimeru_isekai_seikatsu/d5oze05

FragOutFire said:
Subaru should just try to explain his power again. Either he gets killed and goes back to the save point or he kills everyone else

Also, who's Rem?

Yourlolm said:
BEFORE ANYONE SAYS I DO NOT TAKE ANY CREDIT FROM THE WRITER
Well talk about a start, huh?
Alright in right at the start we see the visual confirmation that it is indeed the white whale that was mentioned 3 episodes ago.
A lot of things are happening in a short span of time.
The whale seems to have some kind of holes on its body from which it blows an extreme amount of air causing an entire storm.
Eventually Rem makes the decision what she feels is her destiny. Recall episode 15 and how she said that the witch cult now even took her reason to die ( Subaru ). Subaru is the one person and overall reason she would choose to die for and that’s exactly what we see here. She knows that in his current state he would protest with all his might so she knocks him out and disappears in the darkness.
After that there is this extremely terrifying and interesting scene with Otto.
Subaru wants to go back and save her, Otto wants to live on. Here we have a not mentally healthy madman arguing against a commoner with rational thoughts.
We hear that the White Whale killed an entire expedition led by the first Sword Saint ( Master Swordsman is a sloppy translation here ) was completely wiped out. Ever since then this creature is classified as a catastrophe.
Then Otto speaks the truth. Both are weak, both can’t do anything in this situation. The thing is from his past life Subaru knows that Rem is not strong enough as well.
And now pay attention. When Subaru looks back into the darkness this is a key moment. Within these few seconds the Whale did something to Rem that made Otto forget her. Do you think a perfectly sane person like Otto would tell an obviously enraged and unpredictable person like Subaru "For now we’re fortunate to escape it" after they just lost her to this beast? No, because at this moment he talked without any knowledge of a person named Rem. Since Subaru seems to be unaffected we deal with two different aspects that are actually really similar to his return by death. Just like there every other person except him doesn’t know anything about what he knows. The thing is this time it’s not the existence of an entire life but the existence of a person. On top of that Subaru usually has to confront this thought of being alone with the knowledge of something no one else knows AFTER he has returned to a time and place where he can collect his thought. Here he has to face this reality while still being in an "unsuccessful timeline". Of course he still doesn’t understand it in this particular scene but the more people don’t remember her the deeper he is sucked into this suicidal desire.
Remember that Subaru is already mentally damaged. Now he has to deal with this too and you can see how he perceives this. He stares at Otto and acts accordingly to the kind of mentality he has in this life…rage.
Both Subaru and Otto ask themselves why the white whale only follows them and no other caravans. We see a shot that clearly show the horn of the whale. Now here we need some additional info from the novel that should have been mentioned quite some time ago. I don’t know whether they implement this later on via knowledge drop but I doubt it so here a small fact. Mabeasts of all kinds usually have a horn on their head. Recall the Wolgram in arc 2 and the puppy with the bald spot on its head. A horn was supposed to be there so somehow they lost it. Well and because Subaru speaks out his responsibility for this situation Otto does something that might cause some controversy.
Some might call him scum for pushing off Subaru but what I see is mostly humanity, scummy but humane. As ugly as it is, some people would have done the same and for a commoner like Otto who doesn’t seek honor in death like some knights this is the most realistic decision there is. Subaru is left all bruised up and the whale ignores him because of the said horn.
I think the scene where he repeats "I don’t want to die" is extremely powerful. Some might say "why would he say that? He knows he can simply repeat"? The thing is, we don’t know that. Never was there any indication that Subaru has unlimited tries within one checkpoint until he succeeds. He has to treat every life of his as it was his last one. In episode 7 he actually said so himself and this was the reason why he initially didn’t kill himself. Another part is your natural instinct as a human. No one wants to be killed or even eaten by a bigger creature, that’s how nature works.
Eventually the carriage returns and we see clearly that Otto was killed by the cult, it’s somehow an extreme case of karma at works here. Subaru is haunted by the guilt over the loss of Rem and that’s the only thing that is on his mind right now, he isn’t even faced by Otto’s death anymore. And then there is this slight trace of hope in form of the children. The last time Subaru saw them was gutted out by the cult so seeing them and hearing them perfectly fine now gives him some sort of rewarding feeling. He achieved something even if it was at the cost of many lives, probably including Rem’s.
Subaru wakes up and hallucinates right off the bat. I love his reaction when Emilia’s name is dropped. I think it’s two things that cause this reaction. Firstly all the memories from the scene of episode 13 come back to haunt him. Secondly she did something for him by healing his body which is pretty ironic because he was the one saying she had more debts that she could ever repay to him, yet here he is piling up some as well.
Ram brings really interesting points. Emilia didn’t talk about anyone and for Ram who wasn’t involved in anything it’s clear that Subaru did something. In her eyes he is someone who doesn’t address anything as it is but instead likes to shrug it off and Subaru can’t say anything against it because it’s true.
And then Subaru has to deliver Rem’s sister the message of her death, well so he thought. Instead he is hit with the same reality again but even worse this time. Even her own sister, the closest person to her doesn’t remember her as well. Subaru never had any experience with something like that so he is confused and nowhere near calm. We learn some more information how this "erase" works. Apparently even the history is rewritten and events are altered so that it seems as if this person never existed. This line "Even for a nightmare this makes no sense". Subaru who is from another world searches for rationality in a world that is irrational in its entirety, well from our standpoint. Then we see how even the belongings of the erased person is gone. Every small hint that this person ever existed is erased from this world. Personally I see this as a fate worse than death. This difference in perspective I talked about earlier becomes apparent in full force once again. People aside from Subaru see him as confused, as a madman, as insane and this time it’s not even because of the events from another timeline.
Subaru plays with the thoughts of running but the thought of Emilia brings him back to one last little flame of determination. Subaru is feared to confront Emilia and this only gives her stance and things she said in episode 13 even more weight and truth. He doesn’t respond when she asks why he is back here, he doesn’t want to explain something that can’t be explained and would only lead to another why ( as in why do you know that the witch cult will attack? )no Subaru wants just out of here, running away from death itself with Emilia by her side. The events of his past lifes show another effect on him. Never would have past Subaru grabbed Emilia like that and almost drag her out of the room.
"I don’t want to suffer and cry anymore" Subaru is so close to giving up everything. He says everything will work out if she just agrees and comes with him. Here he falls back into his escapism. He denies the existence of Rem and what happened to her because he just doesn’t want to confront himself with painful thoughts anymore. And then Subaru explodes by basically forecasting Emilia’s future. Imagine someone telling you "no you won’t be able to do that, no you won’t achieve that". And then Subaru mixes up his perspective with the ones of others again. In his perspective Emilia wasn’t able to protect anyone yet here she claims she has things to do. Of course Emilia nor anyone else can share his perspective which makes it even more jaded for us. He does the same mistake he did in episode 13. He gave her the fault for things that happened in different timelines. Emilia recognizes that Subaru haunts something and he is very hurt but can’t pinpoint it of course. Subaru feels like he has to achieve anything so that Rem’s sacrifice wasn’t in vain.
After he realizes that everyone around him forgot Rem he just can’t take it anymore. He risks to hurt himself through these hands just so that he can get this off his chest. The thing is now there are 2 hands instead of one. Note how the hands are now mindlessly enter Subaru’s body no, it almost caresses his heart in a threatening manner as if it’s saying "I can crush this anytime, you’ve been warned". And then Emilia drops dead in front of him. Instead of his heart her hear was taken. Remember what he said right before he revealed his ability. "You can take my heart". So not only don’t these hands only affect Subaru, they are extremely conscious of what he says. I think this finally crushes these theories of simply writing his reveal down on paper. These hands or whatever is controlling it is extremely conscious of what Subaru is doing and saying 24/7.
Now Subaru has lost the last thing that kept him going, Emilia. He just stares into the distance after screaming. Beatrice appears and crushes the cristal that holds Puck. Subaru begs that she kills him but as we know Betty hates to see people suffer let alone die in front of her or through her. That’s especially cruel since Beatrice granted him his wish in episode 7 which was supposed to safe him from death. Subaru is let down by the last person he hoped to help him in any way. On top of that we hear that Beatrice apparently suffered A LOT already and she wouldn’t exchange a future for more pain.
Subaru only seeks death, he wants to flee from this reality. Then the cult arrives and Betelgeuse praises him for not being slothful and basically doing their job. Once again Betelgeuse believes Subaru to be a sin since he says how Emilia died already after meeting only one sin. Then something really interesting happens. Subaru can see the authority of sloth which surprises Betelgeuse a lot, in fact it enrages him.
God there is so much more to talk about but I too have to cut off somewhere. All in all I loved all the emotions this episode was able to convey. From selflessness, to guilt, regret, selfishness, rewarding feeling, shock, despair and many more.

Nezperdian said:
We need a spin-off for Rem & Subaru

stone616 said:
Can any light novel readers answer if it's even possible for this anime to get into why all this is even happening? Has the light novel even explained that? At this point my questions continue to mount and the show doesn't bother to answer anything it just continues to introduce more plot threads leading to more questions that it continues not to answer. These are just some of the things I'm waiting for this show to answer.

SKP138 said:
All aboard the Despair Train!

Great episode. It seems that Subaru can say "Return by Death" now but at the cost of someone's life. Unfortunately, Emilia was killed by Subaru trying to tell her about his own little world. So for now, it seems that Subaru still can't tell anyone and I highly doubt he will tell anyone now since it resulted in him killing someone. That Emilia scene wasn't close to the Rem torture scene, I think that's the producer's fault though, the music wasn't deep and it seemed like a few scenes were either censored or cut out because it seems like Emilia was impaled. I believe that Subaru has Unseen Hands as well since the hands are exactly the same as Betelguese's Unseen Hands.

As for Rem, it seems that the White Whale can erase a person's existence as seen with the Bandana Guy. That is some terrifying power and if Subaru gets someone to help him fight that thing, it's gonna be REALLY hard to battle that without losing a single person's existence.

Fuck Otto. That stupid ass cunt. Awesome to see Beatrice again though, I definitely love how she talks.

So now we have two main antagonist this arc.

Betelguese w/ Witch Cult- So you got a witch with an ability called Unseen Hands that can easily break and bend people's limbs. Not only that, it seems like he has a butt load of hands which I'm sure can be used to fight multiple enemies. (Poor Rem) He may have more abilities that we might not know of as of yet. Also, the Witch Cult is no joke as it destroyed Rem and Ram's village that are filled with demons. Though Rem was able to kill quite a few, she was heavily wounded in doing so. At the same time, they completely obliterated Emilia's area, leaving no survivors except for Puck.

White Whale- Big ass whale that can erase people's existence. I'm sure it hits hard too due to it's sheer size and it's roar is enough to send multiple carriages flying. It's also fairly fast since it caught up to Subaru and Otto (FUCK OTTO) on a dragon carriage at full speed. Let's not forget about the mist as I'm sure it will become a hindrance.

I'm sure Subaru will somehow come up with an army to help, but regardless if he does get one, how the hell is he going to fight those two powerhouses? Now I'm even more interested in Subaru since he can now see the Unseen Hands from Betelguese. Does that mean every time he dies, he gets closer to being a witch himself?

4/5

I don't care about the Waifu wars. I love Rem and Emilia both. Although Emilia's death hit me hard, it did not come near the level of sadness to Rem's and I think that's the studio's fault.

bob01020304 said:
does this MC get any stronger? All he does is cry, get angry then get rekt...

Munael said:


I don't think Satella will always kill the person he's trying to tell it to. It's not something that triggers automatically, it seems more like Satella herself being a watchful eye and stopping him when he tries to do something she doesn't like.
I think she killed Emilia in this instance because that would make Subaru suffer much more since if he died instead he'd just get what he wanted: A free and quick reset.

GREW said:
... maybe you can't say this sentence in their language? haha

shitoyasha said:
Betelgeuse is kawaii.

Yourlolm said:
BEFORE ANYONE SAYS I DO NOT TAKE ANY CREDIT FROM THE WRITER
Well talk about a start, huh?
Alright in right at the start we see the visual confirmation that it is indeed the white whale that was mentioned 3 episodes ago.
A lot of things are happening in a short span of time.
The whale seems to have some kind of holes on its body from which it blows an extreme amount of air causing an entire storm.
Eventually Rem makes the decision what she feels is her destiny. Recall episode 15 and how she said that the witch cult now even took her reason to die ( Subaru ). Subaru is the one person and overall reason she would choose to die for and that’s exactly what we see here. She knows that in his current state he would protest with all his might so she knocks him out and disappears in the darkness.
After that there is this extremely terrifying and interesting scene with Otto.
Subaru wants to go back and save her, Otto wants to live on. Here we have a not mentally healthy madman arguing against a commoner with rational thoughts.
We hear that the White Whale killed an entire expedition led by the first Sword Saint ( Master Swordsman is a sloppy translation here ) was completely wiped out. Ever since then this creature is classified as a catastrophe.
Then Otto speaks the truth. Both are weak, both can’t do anything in this situation. The thing is from his past life Subaru knows that Rem is not strong enough as well.
And now pay attention. When Subaru looks back into the darkness this is a key moment. Within these few seconds the Whale did something to Rem that made Otto forget her. Do you think a perfectly sane person like Otto would tell an obviously enraged and unpredictable person like Subaru "For now we’re fortunate to escape it" after they just lost her to this beast? No, because at this moment he talked without any knowledge of a person named Rem. Since Subaru seems to be unaffected we deal with two different aspects that are actually really similar to his return by death. Just like there every other person except him doesn’t know anything about what he knows. The thing is this time it’s not the existence of an entire life but the existence of a person. On top of that Subaru usually has to confront this thought of being alone with the knowledge of something no one else knows AFTER he has returned to a time and place where he can collect his thought. Here he has to face this reality while still being in an "unsuccessful timeline". Of course he still doesn’t understand it in this particular scene but the more people don’t remember her the deeper he is sucked into this suicidal desire.
Remember that Subaru is already mentally damaged. Now he has to deal with this too and you can see how he perceives this. He stares at Otto and acts accordingly to the kind of mentality he has in this life…rage.
Both Subaru and Otto ask themselves why the white whale only follows them and no other caravans. We see a shot that clearly show the horn of the whale. Now here we need some additional info from the novel that should have been mentioned quite some time ago. I don’t know whether they implement this later on via knowledge drop but I doubt it so here a small fact. Mabeasts of all kinds usually have a horn on their head. Recall the Wolgram in arc 2 and the puppy with the bald spot on its head. A horn was supposed to be there so somehow they lost it. Well and because Subaru speaks out his responsibility for this situation Otto does something that might cause some controversy.
Some might call him scum for pushing off Subaru but what I see is mostly humanity, scummy but humane. As ugly as it is, some people would have done the same and for a commoner like Otto who doesn’t seek honor in death like some knights this is the most realistic decision there is. Subaru is left all bruised up and the whale ignores him because of the said horn.
I think the scene where he repeats "I don’t want to die" is extremely powerful. Some might say "why would he say that? He knows he can simply repeat"? The thing is, we don’t know that. Never was there any indication that Subaru has unlimited tries within one checkpoint until he succeeds. He has to treat every life of his as it was his last one. In episode 7 he actually said so himself and this was the reason why he initially didn’t kill himself. Another part is your natural instinct as a human. No one wants to be killed or even eaten by a bigger creature, that’s how nature works.
Eventually the carriage returns and we see clearly that Otto was killed by the cult, it’s somehow an extreme case of karma at works here. Subaru is haunted by the guilt over the loss of Rem and that’s the only thing that is on his mind right now, he isn’t even faced by Otto’s death anymore. And then there is this slight trace of hope in form of the children. The last time Subaru saw them was gutted out by the cult so seeing them and hearing them perfectly fine now gives him some sort of rewarding feeling. He achieved something even if it was at the cost of many lives, probably including Rem’s.
Subaru wakes up and hallucinates right off the bat. I love his reaction when Emilia’s name is dropped. I think it’s two things that cause this reaction. Firstly all the memories from the scene of episode 13 come back to haunt him. Secondly she did something for him by healing his body which is pretty ironic because he was the one saying she had more debts that she could ever repay to him, yet here he is piling up some as well.
Ram brings really interesting points. Emilia didn’t talk about anyone and for Ram who wasn’t involved in anything it’s clear that Subaru did something. In her eyes he is someone who doesn’t address anything as it is but instead likes to shrug it off and Subaru can’t say anything against it because it’s true.
And then Subaru has to deliver Rem’s sister the message of her death, well so he thought. Instead he is hit with the same reality again but even worse this time. Even her own sister, the closest person to her doesn’t remember her as well. Subaru never had any experience with something like that so he is confused and nowhere near calm. We learn some more information how this "erase" works. Apparently even the history is rewritten and events are altered so that it seems as if this person never existed. This line "Even for a nightmare this makes no sense". Subaru who is from another world searches for rationality in a world that is irrational in its entirety, well from our standpoint. Then we see how even the belongings of the erased person is gone. Every small hint that this person ever existed is erased from this world. Personally I see this as a fate worse than death. This difference in perspective I talked about earlier becomes apparent in full force once again. People aside from Subaru see him as confused, as a madman, as insane and this time it’s not even because of the events from another timeline.
Subaru plays with the thoughts of running but the thought of Emilia brings him back to one last little flame of determination. Subaru is feared to confront Emilia and this only gives her stance and things she said in episode 13 even more weight and truth. He doesn’t respond when she asks why he is back here, he doesn’t want to explain something that can’t be explained and would only lead to another why ( as in why do you know that the witch cult will attack? )no Subaru wants just out of here, running away from death itself with Emilia by her side. The events of his past lifes show another effect on him. Never would have past Subaru grabbed Emilia like that and almost drag her out of the room.
"I don’t want to suffer and cry anymore" Subaru is so close to giving up everything. He says everything will work out if she just agrees and comes with him. Here he falls back into his escapism. He denies the existence of Rem and what happened to her because he just doesn’t want to confront himself with painful thoughts anymore. And then Subaru explodes by basically forecasting Emilia’s future. Imagine someone telling you "no you won’t be able to do that, no you won’t achieve that". And then Subaru mixes up his perspective with the ones of others again. In his perspective Emilia wasn’t able to protect anyone yet here she claims she has things to do. Of course Emilia nor anyone else can share his perspective which makes it even more jaded for us. He does the same mistake he did in episode 13. He gave her the fault for things that happened in different timelines. Emilia recognizes that Subaru haunts something and he is very hurt but can’t pinpoint it of course. Subaru feels like he has to achieve anything so that Rem’s sacrifice wasn’t in vain.
After he realizes that everyone around him forgot Rem he just can’t take it anymore. He risks to hurt himself through these hands just so that he can get this off his chest. The thing is now there are 2 hands instead of one. Note how the hands are now mindlessly enter Subaru’s body no, it almost caresses his heart in a threatening manner as if it’s saying "I can crush this anytime, you’ve been warned". And then Emilia drops dead in front of him. Instead of his heart her hear was taken. Remember what he said right before he revealed his ability. "You can take my heart". So not only don’t these hands only affect Subaru, they are extremely conscious of what he says. I think this finally crushes these theories of simply writing his reveal down on paper. These hands or whatever is controlling it is extremely conscious of what Subaru is doing and saying 24/7.
Now Subaru has lost the last thing that kept him going, Emilia. He just stares into the distance after screaming. Beatrice appears and crushes the cristal that holds Puck. Subaru begs that she kills him but as we know Betty hates to see people suffer let alone die in front of her or through her. That’s especially cruel since Beatrice granted him his wish in episode 7 which was supposed to safe him from death. Subaru is let down by the last person he hoped to help him in any way. On top of that we hear that Beatrice apparently suffered A LOT already and she wouldn’t exchange a future for more pain.
Subaru only seeks death, he wants to flee from this reality. Then the cult arrives and Betelgeuse praises him for not being slothful and basically doing their job. t Once again Betelgeuse believes Subaru to be a sin since he says how Emilia died already after meeting only one sin. Then something really interesting happens. Subaru can see the authority of sloth which surprises Betelgeuse a lot, in fact it enrages him.
God there is so much more to talk about but I too have to cut off somewhere. All in all I loved all the emotions this episode was able to convey. From selflessness, to guilt, regret, selfishness, rewarding feeling, shock, despair and many more.

vykr said:


The author actually wrote an AU scenario where they run off together and get married instead. I think just to torture us with the happiness that could have been.

Devil_Slayer said:


Dude you made my day with this lololo
subaru was ment to be a loser , he doesn't have to be OP he have to use his mind
sadly he don't have nither of them .