| So, I've been thinking of "villains" recently and I was wondering what you people think makes a bad villain and what makes a good one? I've been watching the new anime season and I can't help but feel that the villains are an incredibly mixed bag. For good we have Hanizuka's mother in Boku Dake who I think is a very threatening force even with the little screen time we've had. From her glances and her towering impression over the children, she's really become memorable to me instantly. She has a very confident tone to her that would come naturally with someone of her nature and relationship with people (don't really want to spoil). Other good ones would include Tyuule from Gate because of her controlled and plotting character. For bad, we have the... whatever group from Active Raid. A dull teenage super hacker with his random loli-sistercon thing he's got going on, who is so far up his own arse that you'd rather just fast forward to the bit of him losing instead of him constantly winning to try and make him seem threatening. He doesn't seem threatening though, he just seems smug and the MCs look incompetent because they can't beat him. My favourite bit was when he hacked a non-combat mech and because they knew they couldn't show him winning a fight using it, they cut to a map of the area and just showed a blip moving around on the map before cutting back to him already having beaten 2 combat mechs because... you know... mad HAXOR skillz. 4 episodes in and we have no real motivation for them. They just are bad because... you know... teenager hacker wants to take down the stupid adults lolzzzzzz. Other bad ones can include the Stasi from Schwarzemarken. The VERY standard Muv-Luv story of "communists be all evil, yo" and unrealistically dickish to everyone around them whilst nearly fingering themselves while killing people because they just LOVE being evil so much... even if they are literally destroying their own nation by leaving massive weaknesses in their defenses against an alien invader just to kill a single person they don't like. So, what makes a decent villain for you and what makes a bad one? Any particular ones come to mind? Doesn't just have to be from this season or anything, just I'm binge watching episodes and unfortunately went straight for Boku dake to Active Raid. |
| In my opinion, a bad villain is one who is evil for the sake of being evil. No backstory, no motive, no nothing. I detest such pathetic excuses for villains/characters. On the other hand, a good villain has a well-developed backstory, a motive, and isn't a bland character. |
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| Firstly, the loli name was Hinazuki, not Hanizuka. Secondly, this is bait for HxH fanboys like me, haha. Anyway the good viilain it's simple, it's the villain that have a good motive and character development, they have a good side too. Ex : Meruem from HxH The bad one is a villain that do evil thing without any reasonable motive. Ex : Dio from JJBA. |
| obligatory "ew anime with villains" but everyone knows the villains in Sushi Police are the best funniest awesomest villains around putting bananas in sushi should really be a punishable offense |
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| There's nothing really that I prefer when it comes to villains. As long as they interest me and aren't completely annoying, they should be fine. |
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Wander_Wolf said: In my opinion, a bad villain is one who is evil for the sake of being evil. No backstory, no motive, no nothing. I detest such pathetic excuses for villains/characters. On the other hand, a good villain has a well-developed backstory, a motive, and isn't a bland character. ^ Pretty much this. However, I have to say the Major from Hellsing:Ultimate is an example where "evil just for the sake of being evil" works. I would say the over-the-top nature of the series allows this though. |
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| Villains in SAO aren't worth calling villains, it's laughable bad. |
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HiatusXHiatus said: Firstly, the loli name was Hinazuki, not Hanizuka. Secondly, this is bait for HxH fanboys like me, haha. Anyway the good viilain it's simple, it's the villain that have a good motive and character development, they have a good side too. Ex : Meruem from HxH The bad one is a villain that do evil thing without any reasonable motive. Ex : Dio from JJBA. Can't stop getting that name wrong. Originally I was saying "Hanikaze". And yeah, I get that. Motive is one of the better things for a villain. Hate when bad guys are just bad because... they want to be bad. OppaiSugoi said: Villains in SAO aren't worth calling villains, it's laughable bad. Hey now. Who is gonna fill the daily anime rape quota if not for SAO villains? But yeah... SAO has some of the weaker villains I've seen in awhile. They are mainly just horny guys for the previously mentioned rape or they are just awful like that Kiba guy who actually made SAO. "I want to trap you all in this world so I feel like god" - "Hey, why'd you trap us in this world?" - "Do you know... don't even remember." 10/10, best villain reasoning. |
| While I usually dislike evil for the sake of being evil Villains, that don't necessarily they always need to have clear motives and strong reasons for being evil. For example The Joker is a classic black villain, yet he is one of the most acclaimed villains of all time, because he is compelling and offers a great contrast to Batman, and pushes him to his limits. I generally prefer villains with a compelling backstory with a complex morality. A great villain is one that has great conflicts with the protagonists, who can push him to his limits and creates an interesting dynamic between the two. There is no ''correct'' way to write villains. Any kind of villain can shine depending on how he is written into the story and how he affects it. |
tsudecimoJan 31, 2016 5:06 PM
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| This thread reminds me of the Kefka vs Sephiroth threads on Final Fantasy forums. As long as the villains are done good then I don't mind what they are like. A good villain is one that makes you feel which goes for any character really. I like any kind of villain if they are done well. It's good to have variety and not the same character type all the time or else it would be cliche and boring. We need the random psychos just as much as we need the ethical "good" villains. |
| アル晴レタ日ノ事 魔法以上のユカイが 限りなく降りそそぐ 不可能じゃないわ |
| I think a good villain should have the same traits as any other good character. Well written, character development (not all good characters necessarily need development but I think villains should have some type of it), 3 dimensional, and have a motive. That's what makes a villain generally likable imo. |
tsudecimo said: While I usually dislike evil for the sake of being evil Villains, that don't necessarily they always need to have clear motives and strong reasons for being evil. For example The Joker is a classic black villain, yet he is one of the most acclaimed villains of all time, because he is compelling and offers a great contrast to Batman, and pushes him to his limits. I generally prefer villains with a compelling backstory with a complex morality. A great villain is one that has great conflicts with the protagonists, who can push him to his limits and creates an interesting dynamic between the two. There is no ''correct'' way to write villains. Any kind of villain can shine depending on how he is written into the story and how he affects it. I get that it really does come down to how the villains themselves are written since some villains are similar in goal but vastly different in execution. Like Orochimaru in Naruto. His goal is to just become more powerful. The end. He however spends most of the anime just kind of wandering around, not really doing anything important since he loses 80% of the fights he's in after his first appearance and mainly is just there to growl angrily at people. Compare that to Father in FMA who just wants to be god pretty much. He has a deep storyline of how he was created and how he affected the world and made it change as he planned for years and years to take ultimate power. |
| I take more interest in villains that are villains just because. They don't have any fuel or reason for revenge or anything, they're just bad people. Or maybe they believe what they're doing is correct. I don't like villains that are all like "HEHEHE I'm soo evil and I'm gonna destroy the world because my mom was murdered" or whatever. Yawn |
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| I like villains that are written in a way that works for the given story. Johan from Monster-creepy villain with great backstory that works well given the themes of humanity and the time it takes place with the cold war, smart and calculating to work against Dr.Tenma. Boros from OPM-for the role he needed to fill Boros was perfect. A great big baddie was able to take a hit and further prove Saitama's dominance. Villains that are evil for the sake of being evil can be good if they are portrayed like the Joker or Frieza, however many times they are flat and monotone. |
| Big Order (TV):great anime or greatest anime? |
Wander_Wolf said: In my opinion, a bad villain is one who is evil for the sake of being evil. No backstory, no motive, no nothing. I detest such pathetic excuses for villains/characters. On the other hand, a good villain has a well-developed backstory, a motive, and isn't a bland character. Anyone thats like this is the best. Thats why DCs Joker will always be my favorite villian purely because he does it for the fun of it. |
 "I wish I was sober to feel the pain So many dark days I can’t explain" -----  -----My Sigs MAL Interview |
| The criteria for such a thing is more complex than people could begin to imagine. Good villain = villain I like. Bad villain = villain I don't like. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| A good (real) villain hurts innocent people and has no inhibitions as to what he is capable of doing. Villains following codes of conduct are predictable. I liked how Orochimaru was portrayed until the battle with Sarutobi. Afterwards he got degraded. Psychopass has an uber villain which fits the profile I mentioned. Grifith after turning into Femto is also a good sort of villain. |
| Some of my anime music videos: The Eternity I Desire (Romance/Drama) | Saitama's World (One Punch Man) | --------------------------------------- Man of Sorrows (Berserk) | War of wrath (Escaflowne) My Youtube channel: Logos studios |
| I like villains that you can relate to. Ones that make you question how evil they really are. The crazy, "evil for the sake of it" villains usually don't appeal to me unless they are really well done. |
| I like villains that have some code of honor. For instance, they can be evil but they stay true to their promises and etc. Villains with good motives but evil execution is great too. |
| There are two types of villain. The tragic originally good villain and the deliciously pure evil one. Both can be great, even though I personally prefer the second type. The 1st one needs to gain sympathy and have a believable justification among the viewers. A tragic past is a good way to do that, but is often badly executed and cheesy. He often shares a similarity with the MC to remind them that that they could very well turn like him if things go wrong. Sometimes they just gain sympathy just by experiencing good things and living in their harsh world (Meruem). Those characters often go through significant character development. I unfortunately don't have examples that pop into my head at the moment. The 2nd one often needs to be a complete opposite to the MC, the other side of the same coin. A common concept is that those 2 characters are oddly drawn to each other. Dark humor or artistic view is always good, along with a sadistic side that adds to the aura instead of taking it away. They still need to feel justified, Makishima Shougo for example does what he does because of his nihilist views. Often those villains won't go through much character development. Example: Joker, Dio Brando, Makishima Shougo, Johan Liebert, Griffith, Voldemort. All in all, any good villain needs to feel threatening, justified, 3 dimensional, more often than not charismatic to some degree and to represent something in the story or the main character, not just some guy from no where. |
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| I don't give a fuck if the villain is evil or doesn't have any redeeming quality. If I found him/her entertaining, I will like him/her. |
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| Shinsekai Yori has true villains. That is all I can say. |
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| A good villain is one I can understand, one that represents an idea that, however flawed I will know why someone holds it. Either that, or the villain has something that modifies his 'evilness' and makes it uniquely his. The villain needs to be more than evil. He needs to be based on some idea. The D-Reaper is the best example of an understandable villain, although it's a computer program. The D-Reaper represents suicide, and makes us understand why someone would choose it. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| A good villain is someone like Kiryuin Satsuki, or maybe pseudo villain was the right term, who has strong determination to fulfill her goals and has a firm standing on what she believes. A bad villain is her mother Kiryuin Ragyou. She has her determination and goals but what sets her apart from her daughter is that she has no real purpose. Why was she so obsessed with Life Fibres? Her motives become too weak because her purpose has no clear meaning to it. |
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Wander_Wolf said: Very true. I hate the "hate sink" type of villain who has no redeeming qualities and is evil for the sake of it, because nobody like that exists in real life. A good villain is one who has a motive and a believable cause for following said motive in an evil way.In my opinion, a bad villain is one who is evil for the sake of being evil. No backstory, no motive, no nothing. I detest such pathetic excuses for villains/characters. On the other hand, a good villain has a well-developed backstory, a motive, and isn't a bland character. Honestly, if the villain is sympathetic, often I find myself rooting for them over the hero. |
| KiriDaii from KnB could've been great villains if the author had focused of them a bit. Yeah, villains on sports anime is a weird concept but those guys just gave no f*cks. Fujimaki could have explained why they injure people and why Hanamiya is like that but hey, they're minor characters, so who cares. So I guess they're just... Mediocre. |
kirisakitrashFeb 3, 2016 6:01 AM
KaoruMatsuoka said: Wander_Wolf said: Very true. I hate the "hate sink" type of villain who has no redeeming qualities and is evil for the sake of it, because nobody like that exists in real life. A good villain is one who has a motive and a believable cause for following said motive in an evil way.In my opinion, a bad villain is one who is evil for the sake of being evil. No backstory, no motive, no nothing. I detest such pathetic excuses for villains/characters. On the other hand, a good villain has a well-developed backstory, a motive, and isn't a bland character. Honestly, if the villain is sympathetic, often I find myself rooting for them over the hero. Glad you agree with me. I'd much prefer my villains to complex characters rather than simple lunatics. A villain that the audience can understand and/or relate to is bound to make the story more interesting. |
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| Johan and Friend by Urasawa and every HxH antagonists. |
ThatDarnIrishMan said: So, I've been thinking of "villains" recently and I was wondering what you people think makes a bad villain and what makes a good one? I've been watching the new anime season and I can't help but feel that the villains are an incredibly mixed bag. For good we have Hanizuka's mother in Boku Dake who I think is a very threatening force even with the little screen time we've had. From her glances and her towering impression over the children, she's really become memorable to me instantly. She has a very confident tone to her that would come naturally with someone of her nature and relationship with people (don't really want to spoil). Other good ones would include Tyuule from Gate because of her controlled and plotting character. For bad, we have the... whatever group from Active Raid. A dull teenage super hacker with his random loli-sistercon thing he's got going on, who is so far up his own arse that you'd rather just fast forward to the bit of him losing instead of him constantly winning to try and make him seem threatening. He doesn't seem threatening though, he just seems smug and the MCs look incompetent because they can't beat him. My favourite bit was when he hacked a non-combat mech and because they knew they couldn't show him winning a fight using it, they cut to a map of the area and just showed a blip moving around on the map before cutting back to him already having beaten 2 combat mechs because... you know... mad HAXOR skillz. 4 episodes in and we have no real motivation for them. They just are bad because... you know... teenager hacker wants to take down the stupid adults lolzzzzzz. Other bad ones can include the Stasi from Schwarzemarken. The VERY standard Muv-Luv story of "communists be all evil, yo" and unrealistically dickish to everyone around them whilst nearly fingering themselves while killing people because they just LOVE being evil so much... even if they are literally destroying their own nation by leaving massive weaknesses in their defenses against an alien invader just to kill a single person they don't like. So, what makes a decent villain for you and what makes a bad one? Any particular ones come to mind? Doesn't just have to be from this season or anything, just I'm binge watching episodes and unfortunately went straight for Boku dake to Active Raid. How is Hanizuka's mother a good villain? She's cartoonish af... |
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| Usually good villains are those ones who we can empathize with. They must have a believable and also relatable backstory to fuel their motives. Fuck villains that are evil just for the sake of being evil. Crazy psychopaths are okay as well but most often shallow, just like the ones in real life. An example of a bad villain is probably Sword Art Onlines second villain. I don't even have to explain why but in short, he was evil just for the fuck of it. On the other hand a good villain would be sqealer from shinsekai yori. His motives were genuine and the audience were made to empathize with him. |
GaryL said: ThatDarnIrishMan said: So, I've been thinking of "villains" recently and I was wondering what you people think makes a bad villain and what makes a good one? I've been watching the new anime season and I can't help but feel that the villains are an incredibly mixed bag. For good we have Hanizuka's mother in Boku Dake who I think is a very threatening force even with the little screen time we've had. From her glances and her towering impression over the children, she's really become memorable to me instantly. She has a very confident tone to her that would come naturally with someone of her nature and relationship with people (don't really want to spoil). Other good ones would include Tyuule from Gate because of her controlled and plotting character. For bad, we have the... whatever group from Active Raid. A dull teenage super hacker with his random loli-sistercon thing he's got going on, who is so far up his own arse that you'd rather just fast forward to the bit of him losing instead of him constantly winning to try and make him seem threatening. He doesn't seem threatening though, he just seems smug and the MCs look incompetent because they can't beat him. My favourite bit was when he hacked a non-combat mech and because they knew they couldn't show him winning a fight using it, they cut to a map of the area and just showed a blip moving around on the map before cutting back to him already having beaten 2 combat mechs because... you know... mad HAXOR skillz. 4 episodes in and we have no real motivation for them. They just are bad because... you know... teenager hacker wants to take down the stupid adults lolzzzzzz. Other bad ones can include the Stasi from Schwarzemarken. The VERY standard Muv-Luv story of "communists be all evil, yo" and unrealistically dickish to everyone around them whilst nearly fingering themselves while killing people because they just LOVE being evil so much... even if they are literally destroying their own nation by leaving massive weaknesses in their defenses against an alien invader just to kill a single person they don't like. So, what makes a decent villain for you and what makes a bad one? Any particular ones come to mind? Doesn't just have to be from this season or anything, just I'm binge watching episodes and unfortunately went straight for Boku dake to Active Raid. How is Hanizuka's mother a good villain? She's cartoonish af... Well, she's not cartoonish. She's planning and controlling. Someone who clearly is used to having her way with Hinazuki but that is slowly being worn down by Satoru's pressure and it's causing a more dark change in character. Her smug attitude when around children but her worry when she realises an adult saw her behaviour and her more broken, intimidated appearance. She'll beat on her child for anything and then be controlling enough to hide her violence under pretty clothes but the second an adult confronts her, she can barely speak because she's been revealed. Hell, I've known abusive parents in real life that were far more cartoonish and eye-rollingly silly looking. 4blaze2it0 said: Usually good villains are those ones who we can empathize with. They must have a believable and also relatable backstory to fuel their motives. Fuck villains that are evil just for the sake of being evil. Crazy psychopaths are okay as well but most often shallow, just like the ones in real life. An example of a bad villain is probably Sword Art Onlines second villain. I don't even have to explain why but in short, he was evil just for the fuck of it. On the other hand a good villain would be sqealer from shinsekai yori. His motives were genuine and the audience were made to empathize with him. Hah, yeah. Sword Art has had be a pretty poor arrangement of villains, from the first dude who ended up forgetting why he was a bad guy, to the second who was just a rapist that everyone seemed okay with except Kirito-sama and then Death Gun was just amazingly dull. |
| A good villain is the one that doesn't need to rape a character to be considered bad. |
Tenshi_Shura said: A good villain is someone like Kiryuin Satsuki, or maybe pseudo villain was the right term, who has strong determination to fulfill her goals and has a firm standing on what she believes. A bad villain is her mother Kiryuin Ragyou. She has her determination and goals but what sets her apart from her daughter is that she has no real purpose. Why was she so obsessed with Life Fibres? Her motives become too weak because her purpose has no clear meaning to it. Ragyo has the same thing Satsuki has. Both have strong determination to fulfill their goals and believe what they do so firmly they won't change it. In fact, that's what defines the whole cast of KLK. It also sounds like something that's easy to write. You can make a lot of characters determined, but is it enough? If everyone is determined in a show, is it still effective? |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: Tenshi_Shura said: A good villain is someone like Kiryuin Satsuki, or maybe pseudo villain was the right term, who has strong determination to fulfill her goals and has a firm standing on what she believes. A bad villain is her mother Kiryuin Ragyou. She has her determination and goals but what sets her apart from her daughter is that she has no real purpose. Why was she so obsessed with Life Fibres? Her motives become too weak because her purpose has no clear meaning to it. Ragyo has the same thing Satsuki has. Both have strong determination to fulfill their goals and believe what they do so firmly they won't change it. In fact, that's what defines the whole cast of KLK. It also sounds like something that's easy to write. You can make a lot of characters determined, but is it enough? If everyone is determined in a show, is it still effective? That's wasn't my point. I'm saying Ragyo pales in comparison to Satsuki even though they both share similar qualities because she has no clear reason about her actions. She's straight to the point with her obsession with Life Fibres. No backstory, no monologues. Just plain evil. |
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| I think the best kind of villains are the ones who you can understand their motives, The ones that are relateable, and the ones with most character. A bland, un-understandable, and uninteresting character is not a fun villain. Also the villain should be compatible with the hero of the story... You wouldn't have magneto as swamp things arch enemy would you? I mean wheres the sense in that? Lex luthor and Superman are great matches, Batman and Joker fit very well together as enemies. |
BobbyElBFeb 4, 2016 1:32 AM
| Some combination of well defined, so we can understand them and cool. Hisoka is cool, I don't need a detailed backstory for him because that would make him seem more human and weaker. The lack of informaiton keeps him mysterious and dnagerous. We still learn about his motivations for making Gon stronger, but his character design, personality, and powers are what really sell him. on episode 105 of HunterxHunter and Meruem is looking to be a great villain as well. He clearly has emotions and a good softer side even if it hasn't fully emerged yet and his motivations are clear. I also like his character design and tail. Tenshi_Shura said: TheBrainintheJar said: Ragyo has the same thing Satsuki has. Both have strong determination to fulfill their goals and believe what they do so firmly they won't change it. In fact, that's what defines the whole cast of KLK. It also sounds like something that's easy to write. You can make a lot of characters determined, but is it enough? If everyone is determined in a show, is it still effective? That's wasn't my point. I'm saying Ragyo pales in comparison to Satsuki even though they both share similar qualities because she has no clear reason about her actions. She's straight to the point with her obsession with Life Fibres. No backstory, no monologues. Just plain evil. She learned of their power and wanted to use it, eventually she fused with life fibres and shared the same motivation as the original life fibre, to complete it's reproduction cycle. But yes, she pales in comparison to Satsuki, it's not even close. |
merryfistmasFeb 4, 2016 1:31 AM
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PraetorPat said: Wander_Wolf said: In my opinion, a bad villain is one who is evil for the sake of being evil. No backstory, no motive, no nothing. I detest such pathetic excuses for villains/characters. On the other hand, a good villain has a well-developed backstory, a motive, and isn't a bland character. Anyone thats like this is the best. Thats why DCs Joker will always be my favorite villian purely because he does it for the fun of it. pretty much agree, a well-developed backstory doesn't needed, for me they just need to be really badass, loss his hope in humanity, less shit talks and more actions |
“The greatest crimes in the world are not committed by people breaking the rules but by people following the rules. It's people who follow orders that drop bombs and massacre villages.” -Bansky  |
| For me, i think a good villain needs to have a good character development that doesn't seem arbitrary, ridiculous, clique or just stupid. Of coarse, there are exceptions but for the most cases, i find myself seeing a good villain follow these criteria. |
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| I dislike generic psychorapist villains. The ones who just show up out of nowhere, are completely crazy and keep stalking whoever it is they've got a soft spot for. It's quite boring for me; there's very little development or backstory given because it can all be summed up in one line : "I'm obsessed with x character for no particular reason and I'll spend all my time trying to go after them!" |
 It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether! It's an entirely different kind of flying. |
Tenshi_Shura said: TheBrainintheJar said: Ragyo has the same thing Satsuki has. Both have strong determination to fulfill their goals and believe what they do so firmly they won't change it. In fact, that's what defines the whole cast of KLK. It also sounds like something that's easy to write. You can make a lot of characters determined, but is it enough? If everyone is determined in a show, is it still effective? That's wasn't my point. I'm saying Ragyo pales in comparison to Satsuki even though they both share similar qualities because she has no clear reason about her actions. She's straight to the point with her obsession with Life Fibres. No backstory, no monologues. Just plain evil. That's the point of Ragyo. KLK is a straightforward heroic story about a bunch of buffoons saving the world. Ragyo is meant to portray pure evil so our characters will have something to fight with. That said, there is the whole Conformity vs. Weirdness thing going on, which makes the conflict between Ragyo and the others more emotionally engrossing. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: Tenshi_Shura said: That's wasn't my point. I'm saying Ragyo pales in comparison to Satsuki even though they both share similar qualities because she has no clear reason about her actions. She's straight to the point with her obsession with Life Fibres. No backstory, no monologues. Just plain evil. That's the point of Ragyo. KLK is a straightforward heroic story about a bunch of buffoons saving the world. Ragyo is meant to portray pure evil so our characters will have something to fight with. That said, there is the whole Conformity vs. Weirdness thing going on, which makes the conflict between Ragyo and the others more emotionally engrossing. Kill la Kill wasn't a straightforward good vs evil show at the beginning. It only became that because Ragyo was introduced as the villain which turned out to be a bland and uninteresting one. |
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| a good villain in my opinion would be Johan off Monster any villain similar would be pretty 10/10 |
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