Do you think victims of traumatizing events, or ones with serious mental illnesses, could be excused of their actions?
| For example, I heard Shia Lebouf abused his girlfriend or something like that. However, people are trying to defend this by saying "well he was a victim of rape, & it could be some sort of coping mechanism" or something like that. Also, about like war veterans with PTSD committing murder. Or with a less extreme case, a person with depression, anger issues, bipolar, etc being emotionally abusive. I personally don't think so. All that should do is give you a room in a treatment center or something & not directly to a jail cell. There is really no legitimate excuse to your actions if they hurt others imo. |
NilinDec 16, 2015 11:45 PM
| weird. I agree with you on something. |
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| Nope. |
| No - if another party was hurt in the process (abuse, murder, rape, etc.) Yes, they can slightly be excused but still deserve a punishment - if nobody was hurt in the process (robbery, theft, graffiti, vandalism, public indecency) |
| Hell no. If you screw up, you pay for it. That's just how life goes. |
| Don't people manage to get by using the matrix argument? well either way, I really wonder if you can manage to be excused for murdering someone who you thought was a zombie. |
nep-nep said: Don't people manage to get by using the matrix argument? well either way, I really wonder if you can manage to be excused for murdering someone who you thought was a zombie. Who was it that got off of some serious crime by using the matrix argument? I'm totally blanking on the name but I remember it was something that left me in complete disbelief and exemplified the primary issue with our legal/penal system. |
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| Traumatizing events? Absolutely not. I myself am a rape victim (to an older male cousin of mine when I was around 5), and had an angry alcoholic father, yet I don't have any violent tendencies or thoughts towards anyone. Of course I do know that I'm only one individual and cannot speak for the majority, however, I still stand by my belief an individual (with exception to those with an actual mental illness) should be punished for any crimes that that individual commits. A person with a mental illness, however, should be put in a mental institution. That's kind of what they're designed for, even if they don't do what they're supposed to do at least they'll keep them from harming anyone else out in normal society. |
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| It can explain it, but not excuse it. You're still an intelligent, conscient human being that can differentiate right from wrong. If you fail to control yourself you have nobody but yourself to blame. |
| oh you are talking about the Insanity Defense sure, but i can understand why its a law considering that Insanity makes you not in control of your actions but rather your brain is going wild or having a short circuit that its like you are possess by an evil spirit/demon/being but the problem i think is that Insanity Defense can be abuse, i heard some cases about Temporary Insanity that suspect for a crime is now mentally healthy but he/she was insane during the crime only so lol a lot of criminals can use this excuse, and worse there is no biomarkers or laboratory/physical diagnosis of mental disorders yet, so for now that Insanity Defense should not be accepted |
| it depends. i think in that case the focus needs to be on rehabilitation in addition to regular prison. personally i am more in favor of a prison system that helps the criminal reenter society as a non-criminal. assuming non criminal offenses... if somebody with a mental illness acts out it's up to you how to react. if you want to be more sensitive or forgiving, go for it. if not, whatever. nobody's going to make you |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
FlatEight said: A person with a mental illness, however, should be put in a mental institution. That's kind of what they're designed for, even if they don't do what they're supposed to do at least they'll keep them from harming anyone else out in normal society. Yes, we should lock up people with PTSD along with people with dementia and anxiety problem. |
| The most important things in life is the people that you care about |
Rarusu_ said: No. There is a difference between being understood and forgiven. Just because shit has happened to you and we can understand that your action was some kind lf reaction or respond to the past, doesn't mean you are allowed to do the same without consequences. If, for example, a parent were treated badly as a child, doesn't excuse his bad behavior toward his own child. no, but it's stupid to ignore the link and avoid trying to help people in that situation to change it |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
| No. That sets a bad precedent and doesn't encourage understanding. |
| Absolutely not. Unless they're like, clinically insane or something. But even then they should be locked up in an asylum or something. I'm not going to say motivation doesn't matter at all, but with few exceptions (self defense, blackmail etc.) it's not an excuse. Because either way, the damage is done. Maybe for things on a very minor scale. Like being a bit pissy or unproductive. |
vanishingroseDec 16, 2015 7:44 PM
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Rarusu_ said: truisms said: no, but it's stupid to ignore the link and avoid trying to help people in that situation to change it I agree, and particualarly the US is too punishment driven. More focus on rehablitation is needed. But still, you are not excused per se, before you've payed back somehow. Just going with "but shit, you know how bad it was for me", and then go doing some stupid shit again isn't working either. yeah, i agree. i think the current system doesn't work for victims of trauma or those with mental illnesses, but that's more a criticism of the penal system in general. i do think the methods used in our current prison system are more likely to harshly effect those with mental illness or ptsd though. |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
| I tink it does |
| Tch! |
| no nobody should be above law |
| No, clinging to an excuse won't make them any better. |
| No. Excuses do not change much. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| Nope. #DownWithBatteredWifeSyndrome |
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| It would not really excuse it but it would make it more understandable and easier to forgive. Also it really depends on what mental illness you mean because some would lead a person to be unaware of what they are doing. As well as depending on the actions they did. Its really a case by case thing. |
| Actions are judged not by intentions but by their consequences. |
PerpetualTrance said: That is ridiculous. There are plenty of actions that are not bad but can have unforeseen results.Actions are judged not by intentions but by their consequences. |
| Well my divorce and the deaths of my kids apparently got me off the hook for a drunken hit and run so..... Yes, I personally, do believe whatever the OP was on about because it worked for me |
 Vor uns liegt MAL, in uns marschiert MAL, und hinter uns, kommt MAL! |
| Aww dang girl, it's not like I'm tsun for you or anything! I pretty much agreee, I had a hard life grow up with abusive foster parents and yet I never got excused for my bad actions. In fact, I'm grateful because I turned those bad experiences into something I can learn and grow stronger from. |
traed said: PerpetualTrance said: That is ridiculous. There are plenty of actions that are not bad but can have unforeseen results.Actions are judged not by intentions but by their consequences. Go on, express your tangential claims. If some kid lights the kitchen lighter in his house and that results in his mother's death, then that simply means the mother died because of her kid. Whether the kid is liable for punishment or not varies depending on the moral code. In matters of morality, I've often observed MAL's extreme ineptitude to understand 'subjectivity' of a morality. Your personal morals apply not to the world. But, of course, there's a general code we all follow that aligns our moralities in a common plane. |
Daconator said: Stating intentions don't matter is observably false, and referring to attempt of murder suffices to dismiss the claim. But how? |
| Punishment comes first, remedy comes second. |
Daconator said: PerpetualTrance said: Excuse me?But how? What's even happening? |
Daconator said: PerpetualTrance said: I was replying to your post:What's even happening? PerpetualTrance said: >.>Actions are judged not by intentions but by their consequences. Never mind. Got it. the hell's plaguing my mind today In that case, it would become a sort of a bigger problem. A psychopath obviously wouldn't kill with the intent to kill but rather as enjoyment; so then, may I conclude that the accountability of intentions should also be contextual? |
Daconator said: The intentions to commit a crime are those that matter. Why's everything you're saying passing over my head today? Why are my eyes yellow? |
Daconator said: PerpetualTrance said: I know the feeling bro...Why's everything you're saying passing over my head today? Why are my eyes yellow? Don't. Pity. Me. |
| Depending on how much damage they cause, and how much of it is a conscious decision and how much is out of a person control. A depressed person deciding to beat his wife because he's sad isn't justified. A schizophrenic who's in psychosis and can't recognize his wife and the beats her needs help. It's a grey area, but there are very little mental disorders that should let you out without punishment. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| You don't have to accept it, to understand it. |
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Nilin said: For example, I heard Shia Lebouf abused his girlfriend or something like that. However, people are trying to defend this by saying "well he was a victim of rape, & it could be some sort of coping mechanism" or something like that. Also, about like war veterans with PTSD committing murder. Or with a less extreme case, a person with depression, anger issues, bipolar, etc being emotionally abusive. I personally don't think so. All that should do is give you a room in a treatment center or something & not directly to a jail cell. There is really no legitimate excuse to your actions if they hurt others imo. Yes, I think they can be forgiven, but Shia Lebeouf is not a victim of rape lol. He's just a moron. |
Chiki said: Yes, I think they can be forgiven, but Shia Lebeouf is not a victim of rape lol. He's just a moron. Never be so sure, celebs are people too. The voice behind some of the more iconic Simpsons characters got his head blown off by his drug addicted wife. They're people too. To dismiss any claims of rape based on well they're a celebrity or worse...well hes a man is foolish. Even if it does turn out to be false everyone needs a fair and equal respect. |
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JD2411 said: yes, look at elliot rogers he is excused of all guilt since he was forced to kill those normies as a result of a society that places value on one's virginity. If anything, Elliott Rogers is a victim LMAO |
| Well if people want to play it that way I like to say that the government is excused of their actions when they punish criminals for their wrongdoings. Tough shit, that's what life is. I empathize, but I will not be lenient if someone tries to hide behind their scars as an excuse to inflict harm on others. Sympathizing and coddling them just enables the endless cycle of hatred and abuse. |
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JD2411 said: yes, look at elliot rogers he is excused of all guilt since he was forced to kill those normies as a result of a society that places value on one's virginity. If anything, Elliott Rogers is a victim kek |
Mayuka said: No - if another party was hurt in the process (abuse, murder, rape, etc.) Yes, they can slightly be excused but still deserve a punishment - if nobody was hurt in the process (robbery, theft, graffiti, vandalism, public indecency) Except if it was a 40 year old woman who stabbed another person, then she should be exempted of all charges against her and medical care should be given, because you know, feminism. |
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