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| Kirei got rekt. Lancer best servant. This episode was good compare to usual FSN episodes. |
| Lancer the true MVP of UBW :P such a boss. |
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CookingPriest said: Insertanamehere said: That was better than I expected. Infosar as I can tell they portrayed Shirou's internal struggle and look back on everything well enough so far, though the whole flashback thing was a little....weird. I liked the OST too, though mostly for EMIYA and the Aimer song there. TH if we lower expectations and not expect them to add anything to Shirou, his reasoning WITHIN Answer was decent, but it was seriously brought down by absolutely no showcase of his development to this point in the rest of episodes. VN readers can feel for Shirou and understand why this is important, but for anime onlies who only got "lolsurvivor'sguilt" about his ideals, this tells them nothing. And without characterization which would have made him into snarky lively likeable person, it does nothing but drive up the "tragic backstory" part which they already did justice. Uhh dont know about you But thats not the impression I'm getting This isn't the deepest anime ever but there's at least some depth While the repetitiveness around Shiro is confusing and not doing his character justice I don't think he's that one-dimensional, not in the way you've described. if anything he'd be the "hero never gives up" trope or something about their ideals are just and they want the enemy to live. But the main thing is I know how to enjoy things. It's not the greatest but the animation is great, fights are great, characters are okay, and overall I'd say a 8/10 from me. This episode did well in highlighting Shiro's/Archer's hypocrisy and how they've been telling themselves that all lives should be saved - not exactly what Kiritsugu had in mind (from what I remember of F/Z). I think it was good to see how much Kiritsugu effected Shiro and even Archer, and how Shiro thinks of himself. This anime (or source material if you want to get technical) is using interaction with his future self as a way to flesh out character (albeit slowly and confusingly but still). You're your own biggest critic, and no one hates Shiro's ideals more than Shiro aka Archer himself. Okay I rambled but I like the ideas behind it and I don't like generalising or bashing just because it's a remake (that's seriously what you're doing, I don't know why you even watch this anime if you dislike it so much). |
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Mich666 said: Archer mentions the sheath in a similar manner, now it's just explained slightly more because of the lack of Fate(I assume). I thought that that was an improvement but I really dislike the use of UBW and playing the insert song when Emiya should play...I dunno, it was animated well and everything and they finally(!) let us hear at least something of Shirou's inner voice but they changed things... and it almost felt like they are dragging it for too long (Tohsaka's part was good but shouldn't she carry Shinji away from fire on her back in the end?). Also, why does it seems they mixed Fate and UBW again? Avallon shouldn't heal him at this part or are they implying he CREATED the sheat in himself by finding the sword in his mind? That's bullshit to me, if anything they should sent Saber to him to heal him but even that would be contrary to what this scene should be about and that is to fight against him only by sheer will and belief in his ideal. |
| "When they're alive, you can enjoy watching them struggle. When they're dead, you can enjoy tearing out their guts. Tales are things you get to enjoy twice." |
ijuka said: but I really dislike the use of UBW and playing the insert song when Emiya should play... Now, now... we don't want to use Emiya in every single scene, do we? I mean it would be interesting to have Emiya in that scene and next episode too, but then people would complain about "overusing that track" at some point. So let's leave it to the action scenes next EP and to the final fight of the series. |
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| Kiriei had a weak death lol, Lancer for best servant fucking Emiya activating Avalon of Saber to heal his wounds, cannot wait for the next episode |
| this was a rather soild episode (well compared to most of cour 2). Only problems i have with the episode alone (shirou's characterization is an issue for past eps) is that they should have adapted the rin/brolancer stuff in one go in the begining instead of chopping it up into 2 parts. that way we could have had the answer be the center of attention. EMIYA shouldn't have been used and just should have been saved for next episode. it isn't really a track that can be used for chopped up parts. Speaking of music, the OST was on point this ep. you can actually hear it and it adds impact to what's being presented. also lol at all the saber frames, gotta keep reminding the viewers that she is still relevent. |
| all other archers pale in comparison. |
| Only decent episode so far, although it could be better without insert song at the end. |
| I actually liked how they cut to a devastated Saber every time Archer was talking about hypocrisy ect Could have gone without the flaming hill sword though. |
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| Question: How did Archer use his Noble Phantasm when he ad no mana or did I miss something? |
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firejet said: Question: How did Archer use his Noble Phantasm when he ad no mana or did I miss something? The author thought Archer using UBW was cool so they went with it. |
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Maloghurst said: top kek people for weeks complaining that shirou's healing wasnt explained shirou's healing gets explained and another set complaining that it wasnt foreshadowed and is deus ex machina.. I think it's more that it looked kinda power up-ish I guess. I personally disliked it because it makes it appear that Shirou relies on Avalon to survive against Archer, rather than mostly fighting back due to the strength he has in believing his ideals. |
firejet said: Question: How did Archer use his Noble Phantasm when he ad no mana or did I miss something? insert handwave-y explanation here. It doesn't really make sense... you just have to accept it for the sake of rule of cool. |
Grey-Zone said: ijuka said: but I really dislike the use of UBW and playing the insert song when Emiya should play... Now, now... we don't want to use Emiya in every single scene, do we? I mean it would be interesting to have Emiya in that scene and next episode too, but then people would complain about "overusing that track" at some point. So let's leave it to the action scenes next EP and to the final fight of the series. Well... They could have saved it. The first two times the song played was kinda unnecesary. I was hyped when I heard it in the last ep, but at the same time I thought they should've left it for the "I am the bone of my sword" moment. Putting the insert song in there was one of the most dissapointing things in this adaptation tbh. Anyway i rewatched it again, and it has some issues... It is a great episode, dont get me wrong, but with such an epic scene, the Answer is, it would be pretty hard to not make it awesome. |
WrongPriest said: I actually liked how they cut to a devastated Saber every time Archer was talking about hypocrisy ect Could have gone without the flaming hill sword though. but they have been doing it a lot since ep 18. i fell like they over did it this ep considering most of last ep was hinting to how archer's and saber's views on their life parrallel each other so much. also props to ufo for taking off shirou's jacket and bring back to old school. |
| all other archers pale in comparison. |
firejet said: they thought it would be cool for the anime...in effect it's created bullshit...Question: How did Archer use his Noble Phantasm when he ad no mana or did I miss something? ooo333 said: Now Kirei is reunited with Kiritsugu true tied for OTP |
MaloghurstMay 23, 2015 7:20 PM
firejet said: Question: How did Archer use his Noble Phantasm when he ad no mana or did I miss something? He regenerated it because of his Class ability. He got magic circuits like a normal modern-day magus, so he should have no problem regenerating a bit. Also it was a mistranslation. Saber appearantly said something more along the lines of "his mana is disappearing", which is because he has no one to keep him in the world, but due to his class ability is still active to a certain extent, he can maintain his physical form without much issues. |
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Kolios said: Inugirlz said: Wut. Omg Shiro has plot armour AND constant healing. He needs to get decapitated by Archer. (is it wrong for me to want him to die? lol to tell the truth i just want Archer to WIN i don't really care if Shiro dies) It's wrong for you to be older than 18 and still write "wut" and "omg". Shut up. I'm not writing an academic essay so I can write however I want, thank you very much. Sad part is I never type wut. But it accurately portrayed my feelings at that moment (and reminded me of a meme). mira-nyan said: Plot armor is not a thing. In the VN, we saw him 40 different ways. In the anime, we just happen to be seeing a timeline in which he makes the right choices and DOESN'T die. Anyways, yeah, constant healing. One of the perks of having The Waifu as your servant ~.~ I've always wanted to read the VN and now I really do. Wikipedia isn't cutting it. You're telling me there's a plot line where he actually dies? Wonderful. KamiCity said: Haha he has no plot armor -_- but yea the constant healing thing is right. You watched F/Z right? You should already know how avalon works. Unless you didn't, then my bad. I did. And I forgot how avalon worked that's why I asked. |
InugirlzMay 23, 2015 7:23 PM
firejet said: Question: How did Archer use his Noble Phantasm when he ad no mana or did I miss something? because the anime take the route of RULE OF COOL people also forget how saber kill berserker in EP3 or how she survied against Asssassin full tsubame gaeshi caster power got turned down shinji turned to a comic relief who can survive punch from lancer with B Rank Strength |
bunny1ov3r said: I am curious. Did you make a new account just so you can have a priest ID? Who? Kirei, my sibling, has nothing to do with me. Unlike his obnoxious and pointless way to search himself, I have my own path to believe in God and humanity. |
Maloghurst said: firejet said: they thought it would be cool for the anime...in effect it's created bullshit...Question: How did Archer use his Noble Phantasm when he ad no mana or did I miss something? The fact they fight in UBW is the last thing I would complain about though. Archer doesn't care about mana anyway in this route. Be honest to yourself guys... Nasu brings up the mana exuse only if it's convenient for the storyline. Just like pretty much any of his rpg "rules". |
Inugirlz said: there are many dead ends in the VN most of which shirou dies is rather interesting ways. it's all based on a decision he makes through the plot. and yes they're all cannonI've always wanted to read the VN and now I really do. Wikipedia isn't cutting it. You're telling me there's a plot line where he actually dies? Wonderful.[ https://youtu.be/2Q-hxVPIbJU?t=13m |
| ^^Now that explains everything! Archer simply used a mana potion! Mystery solved. |
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Inugirlz said: I've always wanted to read the VN and now I really do. Wikipedia isn't cutting it. You're telling me there's a plot line where he actually dies? Wonderful. Yes. There are actually very few outcomes wherein Shirou doesn't die. They are all canon because the Nasuverse operates on alternate timelines, IIRC. Inugirlz said: I did. And I forgot how avalon worked that's why I asked. |
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Kerytugu said: that was already nonsense that could have still been stretched and bent, it was still lovely and forgivable to a degree. the anime on the other hand never gave ny exact numbers so you could have possibly still stretched it eve nwith archer saying he depleted his mana in a previous episode. but this ep showed his partialy dissapearing....so...the anime is really really pushed past bullshit on independant action here.Maloghurst said: they thought it would be cool for the anime...in effect it's created bullshit... The fact they fight in UBW is the last thing I would complain about though. Archer doesn't care about mana anyway in this route. Be honest to yourself guys... Nasu brings up the mana exuse only if it's convenient for the storyline. Just like pretty much any of his rpg "rules". |
Grey-Zone said: by mana potion you mean jizz he got from the near by dancing bear on the way to the castle.....or better yet in that timeframe he decided to do with rin what he never got to do previously, now there writing between her lags saying Archer was here first.^^Now that explains everything! Archer simply used a mana potion! Mystery solved. |
| Why are you talking about UBW ending in episode thread? And wasn't it hinted around Archer's talk when Gil in last episode that Archer was on low mana? I didn't watch it yet so I wouldn't know. Maloghurst said: the anime is really really pushed past bullshit on independant action here. I have to agree, Independent Action can't explain it. Nor can be explained why Archer simply didn't use UBW's ability. Only reason is "pretty scenery" and "rule of cool"... You know, being late to the livestream, I wonder if Archer projected twin swords in UBW, plucked them off the ground or had them before invoking UBW... |
astroprogs said: If HF ended up being a single movie, what would it need to do so it can get a high score from all of you? Not air. |
Duri1n said: I gotta admit, some of those scenes were freaking EPIC! I gotta say I did get caught up with all that emorock music and that scene when Shirou recovers and deflect those blades was aodjvnoaijndocbwo amazing BUT... haiz... I think the anime overall didn't quite do a good job of it all... I'm still confused about what the hell they're fighting over. And I came on this forum quite a bit for explanations. Well, I think I understand what Archer's doing. I don't understand Shirou's reasoning. Even if he's broken or whatever, I still don't understand what he's getting at and I feel no desire for him to beat Archer except for the fact aht it only seems right since he's supposed to be the protag... I couldn't quite emphatize and immerse myself in that climactic moment, which slightly disappoints me... Still, this particular episode had some pretty awesome moments, excluding the extremely well animated shirou vs archer fight. Loved the Shinji running away moment. Can't think of a logical reason why Lancer let him go except for Gilgamesh and for that funny as hell running away scene... sabesaini said: I understood now how lancer was able to move even after killing himself.At first i thought it was because of sheer will like "will of power" A bit dumb of Kotomine though? He survived one Holy Grail war, I would think he'd be smart enough to know Lancer wasn't dead, especially since his body didn't poof into sparkly blue fairy dust. The devil is in the details. Archer tells Shirou in this episode that the latter is following his ideal because it's the only thing he's passionate about. Shirou also tells Rin in episode 11 that's he's happy being a help to others and doesn't find the training and practicing magic fun. Shirou is basically an empty human who thinks the only way to be happy is to save others. I think the VN does a better job at explaining because I prefer more words but this is still in there. It's just that some of the explanation is substituted with visuals, as a show rather than tell approach. For example, when Shirou sees his past child self he tells him that further up is Hell. The kid still goes on. Then there is a older Shirou telling the same to current Shirou. What this is saying is essentially that Shirou has no choice but to go forward, even if there is Hell ahead. And he doesn't regret doing that because even in the hell of the fire he experienced as a kid, there was happiness. There was on his knees, Kiritsugu a torn man who suffered a lot and finally found happiness by saving a child. And after Shirou says "(Kiritsugu) who lost everything". Right after it shows Kerry saving Shirou with Avalon, implying that Kiritsugu still made something out of that misery. Then, current Shirou walks into that hell trying to make something out of the misery, where the scenery changes into a hill with a sword (that object signifying his ideal). At the end, there's fire which is symbolism for rebirth because in East Asian culture it symbolizes the power of change and purification.a Yang element. Shirou is learning to accept his path instead of having a weak spirit. Throughout the VN, he realizes the limits of his ideal. The anime doesn't portray that in words but more in facial expression when Shirou reacts to what Archer tells him in episode 11 in the shed scene and later on he tells Tohsaka Rin that his ideals have problems after Illya died (a person he couldn't save). Here, Shirou admits that Archer was right but his correctness is one of many correctness. The answer should be developed more in the next episode. Here's the following spoiler just in case it doesn't. |
CyberNTMay 23, 2015 7:48 PM
| People are ACTUALLY complaining about the shirou/archer segment ? Geez You want to know why Archer casted UBW twice ? Why Avalon mega-healed Shirou ? and why everything else happened the way it happened on that scene ? The answer is simple, because it was FREAKING AWESOME THATS WHY Really, as an veteranl VN reader I say people need to chill out and stop being nitpicking bitches... I rather have a insanelly cool adaption like this than a word by word one... if I want to see something exactly like the VN I can go, AND I SHIT YOU NOT, read the VN again |
| My natural instinct would be to doubt that Kirei would be exterminated so easily, but you can never be too sure. At least Shirou won't lose to Shirou. That would be too pathetic. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
VarunaBles said: Inugirlz said: I did. And I forgot how avalon worked that's why I asked. Ah, hence why the plot needed Saber to watch the battle instead of go off with Rin. Otherwise Shiro would be dead in this timeline too. Patureau said: People are ACTUALLY complaining about the shirou/archer segment ? Geez You want to know why Archer casted UBW twice ? Why Avalon mega-healed Shirou ? and why everything else happened the way it happened on that scene ? The answer is simple, because it was FREAKING AWESOME THATS WHY Really, as an veteranl VN reader I say people need to chill out and stop being nitpicking bitches... I rather have a insanelly cool adaption like this than a word by word one... if I want to see something exactly like the VN I can go, AND I SHIT YOU NOT, read the VN again I agree. Even if this is different from what actually happens in the novel it's more interesting to have the reality marble again:p Screw logic. |
Patureau said: People are ACTUALLY complaining about the shirou/archer segment ? Geez You want to know why Archer casted UBW twice ? Why Avalon mega-healed Shirou ? and why everything else happened the way it happened on that scene ? The answer is simple, because it was FREAKING AWESOME THATS WHY Really, as an veteranl VN reader I say people need to chill out and stop being nitpicking bitches... I rather have a insanelly cool adaption like this than a word by word one... if I want to see something exactly like the VN I can go, AND I SHIT YOU NOT, read the VN again Archer casted UBW because he wanted to break Shirou in the place Archer ended up. It's fitting (from Archer's perspective) to want Shirou to experience the end of the path much quickly than letting him take years instead. The imagery also helps create similarity but also difference with the burned Fuyuki landscape as Shirou is talking about hell. His past self was walking through hell and he is now struggling within hell (Archer's UBW) facing his past, ideal and resolve. This is where he will be born anew. |
Inugirlz said: no he doesnt even need saber also that FIGHT is also very important for Saber you should know when you already read the Fate routeVarunaBles said: Ah, hence why the plot needed Saber to watch the battle instead of go off with Rin. Otherwise Shiro would be dead in this timeline too. |
| Definitely one of the better, if not the best episode of the 2nd half. Main gripe is the survivors guilt line being excluded. Too bad CR subs are pretty bad... I heard the Steel is my body line got changed to I am the bone of my sword (although even that line is technically wrong) |
nocorrasMay 23, 2015 8:04 PM
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| Lancer best boy my god why o why shinji isnt dead.....and shiro chanting at the end give me the ''chills'' beautifull music. |
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| As an anime-only watched, this episode was fucking amazing! I loved the fact that Lancer was completely done was able to kill off Kotomine for good and even scare off Shinji. Lancer became such a great ally to Shirou and especially Rin. Really sad to see him gone but he was a cool character. The highlight of the episode was definitely the entirety of the Shirou vs Archer fight though. I absolutely love the trace on animation and sound effects. xD The best part was when Shirou saw the flashbacks/visions of hell and seeing Kiritsugu saving his younger self. Man, I got chills from those scenes, especially seeing Kiritsugu crying again. I liked the insert song that played during that scene too. I just love how Saber being Shirou's servant wasn't just luck and it was linked. Shirou tracing on Archer's proper blades was badass. Become the hero of justice, SHIROU! 5/5 |
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nocorras said: Definitely one of the better, if not the best episode of the 2nd half. Main gripe is the survivors guilt line being excluded. Too bad CR subs are pretty bad... I heard the Steel is my body line got changed to I am the bone of my sword (although even that line is technically wrong) CR subs can get very bad. UTW is better. |
| Hm, kind of spoilers for later events or maybe just next episode but in this episode |
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| Epic episode. Awesome Lancer scenes but still wondering how can Archer casts UBW in his state -_-" ? The last scene just too damn lame for my taste, but other than that it's EPIC. |
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Botato said: Hm, kind of spoilers for later events or maybe just next episode but in this episode It was just an aesthetic thing/symbolism in the vita OP. It wouldn't actually work like that. |
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xShigarakix said: Inugirlz said: no he doesnt even need saber also that FIGHT is also very important for Saber you should know when you already read the Fate routeAh, hence why the plot needed Saber to watch the battle instead of go off with Rin. Otherwise Shiro would be dead in this timeline too. Yet if he didn't have Saber near Avalon wouldn't have worked right? So he did ned her. |
Botato said: Hm, kind of spoilers for later events or maybe just next episode but in this episode This could be me looking too much into it, of course. |
Inugirlz said: xShigarakix said: no he doesnt even need saber also that FIGHT is also very important for Saber you should know when you already read the Fate route Yet if he didn't have Saber near Avalon wouldn't have worked right? So he did ned her. Technically correct yes. |
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Inugirlz said: xShigarakix said: no he doesnt even need saber also that FIGHT is also very important for Saber you should know when you already read the Fate route Yet if he didn't have Saber near Avalon wouldn't have worked right? So he did ned her. Saber needed to see the fight for herself and Avalon needed Saber in close proximity for such a quick healing. Saber's ideals were established in the prequel anime already, therefore her seeing Shirou vs EMIYA fight is not something that comes out of nowhere. So plotwise it's a two way street. Guess what the plot also needs to have Archer be the result of Shirou striving for his ideal in another timeline, How convenient for him to be summoned to a HGW where Shirou is participating so that his presence helps shape his other self. How convenient for the plot! |
| bout as convenient for the plot as shirou blowing that command seal at the start of the story as well as taiga taking sakura home in ep 4 |
nocorras said: I'm aware of that. But nothing really stops them from doing it in the actual show again is there? They already did something for 'symbolism' this episode.Botato said: Hm, kind of spoilers for later events or maybe just next episode but in this episode It was just an aesthetic thing/symbolism in the vita OP. It wouldn't actually work like that. Tbh what I'm hoping for is something like this, I would completely ignore the plothole this episode if we get something like that. ^Spoilers for FZ and all routes of FSN in link. astroprogs said: That's cool too though not as cool as the vita OP. And I think the desired effect from something like that is already achieved with ED itself, though granted it only applies to after Answer ends I guess.Botato said: Hm, kind of spoilers for later events or maybe just next episode but in this episode This could be me looking too much into it, of course. |
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EmphaticPikachu said: freaken finally, this by far makes the most sense in context. He beleives he won't make the same mistakes as archer, or at least rejects his cyncism about it and will contiune on. There's not only "one" outcome, the one that you've been through, I can decide and pave my own path, there's no reason my ideals have to lead me down that way. Visual Novel Day 15: Answer My ideal is fake. He's right. I can't be a superhero. As long as I admire such a thing, I will end up like the man before me. But I felt beauty in it. I know it's just hypocrisy to value everyone else over yourself. But still... I admired it, thinking how great it would be if I could live that way. I believe in the wish contained in those words. Even if everyone in this world disagrees with me, and even if I myself curse me, I Shirou personality retcon maybe? (well considering that's been going on since ep5) |
GradationAirMay 23, 2015 8:45 PM
| I think this is a really stupid argument - or at least it does seem like one - so I won't waste my time saying anything beyond what I'll say now. I just wanted to say "near" doesn't necessarily mean "right next to". Being a couple of floors apart or in the middle of the forest could be "near" enough, it all depends on Nasu's definition. He could easily just say it's close enough and that's it. That's no different from saying Shirou was healed by Saber's sheath in spite of her absence and claiming it was due to her residual energy. Yet, it makes perfect sense in this narrative - it's a fantasy story after all. |
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