Aldnoah.Zero 2nd Season Episode 6 Discussion

Savethebestforu said:


...What? What point were you making that he missed? The part where you went "AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"?

Sparteh, in case you don't know or are new to these forums:

Sparteh said:
Ends justify the means philosophy. Nothing new. Nothing special

CookingPriest said:


Ends never justify means. All that means is that you end up a massmurderer(Slaine already is).

And that philosophy requires good planning, instead of being driven by obsession like slaine is.

Darklight0303 said:


Could not have said it better myself

Sparteh said:
And why is being a mass murderer a problem? It is just a matter of perspective. If he actually won he would become a hero.
Well I won't argue that Slaine is obsession driven idiot instead of rational planner. That is why he is a loser and why he will fail.

CookingPriest said:


Ends never justify means. All that means is that you end up a massmurderer(Slaine already is).

And that philosophy requires good planning, instead of being driven by obsession like slaine is.

kymano said:
Asseylum didnt know anything about the sufferage of the lower class martians, ye t she gave the Earthling activation to the Delucian, which the terrans used to kills thousands of Martian so indirectly Asseylum is as much responsible for this war's continuation.Both Slaine and Asseylum are mass murderers who help fueled the toll on both Earth and Mars.IS it loyalty or obseession? Slaine pldeges no layalty to Earth so his actions against them can completely be justified since this is a war.Inaho on the other hand has nothing to do with this, the UFE only fights because the Martian upper-class is not willing to negotiate. So in short it does go the Slaine/Asseylum since thsse are two people in power actually looking to change things.

Darklight0303 said:


LOL what? Thousand of martians? Hahahaha do stop making up shit to justify your delusions.

Let me put it into metrics for you.

The fate of a colony on a hostile habitat planet versus the entirety of a planet and its inhabitants. There is no ends justify the means in this situation. You have trouble in your backyard you keep it there, you don't extend the fight to the whole goddamn neighborhood

ANGRY2011 said:
WE DID THIS LAST WEEK PEOPLE.

Let's not do it again.

Please let it die.

deadoptimist said:


We did it this week too. Twice or maybe thrice.

Anyways, there is a big problem in the latest discussion - people use moral judgement instead of arguments.
I mean it went like this:
- Slaine offers a political decision.
- Killing is not political.
- But it is a decision.
- Killing is bad, so Slaine is bad.
(check, if I am wrong, but I think it reflects the spirit of the latest arc).

The latest argument, used by the haters, is completely irrelevant, unless we dicuss morality, which was not the case.
Killing is a decision, but it probably can't be really called political during the war (war means that politics has already failed).
But the war had started before Slaine gained means to do anything and he can't really stop it in one moment. Since he belongs to one side of the conflict, taking part in the war, earning power and using it to stop the killing is a viable option.

But there're two things unclear because of the writing. First, we don't know how Slaine came to choose the martian side and martian pov (there was but one scene with a regular martian dying while helping him and maybe Harklight). Secondly, we don't know his plan - whether he plans to rehabilitate terrans after creating a new state or not (though logically he should).

Then, there is the legacy of Urobuchi - the conflict was supposed to be not black and white, but grey on both sides - both sides have their logic and grievances. But the writers don't manage it too well. And the fact that we haven't seen anything about the low-clas martians is bad. Slaine could've found acceptance among them, for example, - that would've helped the plot greatly.

Btw, while many bash Slaine, isn't it obvious that he gives nuch more material for discussions? Things on his side are much more interesting and dramatic. Nothing really happens with Inaho. Or at least there is no real drama around him and he is unperturbed by anything, so his side of the story is too mundane.

seujair31 said:

The thing around Slaine are forced, artificial, totally unrealistic and fanciful, and turn intorno der fantasies. A person who was shown in the first season, it was not able fit in any of the upgrades, which the writers did in his characters.
Slaine has forced drama, and totally unrealistic.
The characteristics of your character, do not convey the impression of a revolucionaior he is istritamento child, and effeminate, your character is fully incompactivel with a revolutionary character, his motives are totally ridiculous and forced, poorly explained, simply gave a lot of upgrades and never explained how he adquirio, these upgrades without having the slightest aptitude for it, he does not show discussing political plans, studying political plans or tactics.
It just shows he worshiping one princess in a tube, reading books on birds and roses, shows what he thinks about the war, not show it say anything, everything is shown randomly in speeches.
Totally artificial and force writing,
Slaine is a completely artificial character, and does not convey the impression would be a revolutionary as it is infaltil more to a character of a revolutionary.
Simply turned a layman with no qualifications to nothing, politics, battles, and strategies, piloting, through an artificial writing, a revolucinario.
is totally ridiculous

The first impression is the one that is clearly Slaine never showed no text aptitude, the upgrades he won the second tempora, becoming a character with artificial development.
The discursões so happen! Thanks to people that neither you that insists on raising the subject, through the assumption of field.

deadoptimist said:


We did it this week too. Twice or maybe thrice.

Anyways, there is a big problem in the latest discussion - people use moral judgement instead of arguments.
I mean it went like this:
- Slaine offers a political decision.
- Killing is not political.
- But it is a decision.
- Killing is bad, so Slaine is bad.
(check, if I am wrong, but I think it reflects the spirit of the latest arc).

The latest argument, used by the haters, is completely irrelevant, unless we dicuss morality, which was not the case.
Killing is a decision, but it probably can't be really called political during the war (war means that politics has already failed).
But the war had started before Slaine gained means to do anything and he can't really stop it in one moment. Since he belongs to one side of the conflict, taking part in the war, earning power and using it to stop the killing is a viable option.

But there're two things unclear because of the writing. First, we don't know how Slaine came to choose the martian side and martian pov (there was but one scene with a regular martian dying while helping him and maybe Harklight). Secondly, we don't know his plan - whether he plans to rehabilitate terrans after creating a new state or not (though logically he should).

Then, there is the legacy of Urobuchi - the conflict was supposed to be not black and white, but grey on both sides - both sides have their logic and grievances. But the writers don't manage it too well. And the fact that we haven't seen anything about the low-clas martians is bad. Slaine could've found acceptance among them, for example, - that would've helped the plot greatly.

Btw, while many bash Slaine, isn't it obvious that he gives nuch more material for discussions? Things on his side are much more interesting and dramatic. Nothing really happens with Inaho. Or at least there is no real drama around him and he is unperturbed by anything, so his side of the story is too mundane.

kymano said:

Now you get the point, the Counts are too loose and needed to be rounded up, the only person capable of doing that are the Emperor/Empress, but it seems they have been dead for 17 years now.Thats 17 years of these Counts doing things for their own personal interest which leads to them not liking one another and to some extent not liking being under the monarch(if they cant have their own way). True nowadays these Counts do nothing but throw tantrums on Earth crying mine mine mine.Slaine and Asseylum got alot of work to do.

Inugirlz said:


Generally I agree with this sentiment but I'm guessing we're supposed to assume Slaine has had military training. I mean he wears the military uniform so maybe he is pretty credible at least in the case of piloting skills. Also maybe because his father was a scientist working with higher ups he has some political knowledge (though that's pushing it).

Also since he was in charge of tutoring the princess (and again has a scientist for a father) his intelligence isn't so far fetched.
But in general, yeah. Lots of things seem forced.

seujair31 said:
The characteristics of your character

Darklight0303 said:
You mistake discussion with constant frustration at the hypocrisy and stupidity that Slaine surrounds himself with

deadoptimist said:


What? What are you talking about?
You know, your hate towards Slaine doesn't excuse you for being awfully rude to your opponents.
This definitely crosses the line of my patience. Not only do you kill any semblance of civilized discussion by a barrage of barely readable comments, but you aslo make the discussion personal and this subforum toxic.
The next time you start bringing me into your hate towards a fictional character, I'll go against my principles and report you.

Other than that, while I agree, that he is not the most consistent character, he very well could improve with time. The fact that he cried when he killed for the fist time doesn't mean that he can't learn after ywo years. People do this in real world.

Also, I agree with Inugirlz, he most likely had some military training - he was effectively on a military base.

The stuff about the sky doesn't make much sense. While he didn't mention the exact effect that creates the blue color, he wasn't incorrect per se - the sky is blue because of the atmosphere.

I also am not sure (and was never convinced) about the part of him being a teacher. The way I see it he was just allowed to tell her about the Earth, where he lived. I doubt he did any real tutoring.

Your point about Eddekrittuo's story is valid. I wonder why they didn't address it, didn't show the change in her attitude or brought her back at all in the second season for that matter.
Though Slaine has no reason to contact the terrans, since it won't stop the war, unless he does a big scale betrayal. And, while it wasn't explained well, he is shown to side with the martians.


So you admit that you don't try to discuss anything. But, you know, some of us come here for discussion and speculations. :

Darklight0303 said:
There's nothing to speculate when the end result it obvious to anyone who doesn't worship the ground Slaine walks on

deadoptimist said:


That's like your opinion that it isn't interesting to study the mistakes in writing and think about the ways science fiction technology can function. I, personally, find it interesting.
Also besides the Slaine-Inaho conflict, you don't know how the war will end as well.

Darklight0303 said:
Given that the name of the series is Aldnoah Zero it's possible there will be some kind of development that erases the power of Aldnoah. As to how that's gonna happen that's anyone's guess

deadoptimist said:


Yeah, that seems likely now that there is no other use for the "zero" part of the title. But I mean that I personally like to have discussions about how aldnoah is transferred, how it doesn't make sense in the writing and how it could've been done to create an interesting setting - stuff like that, not the endless fight about the main love triangle.

Darklight0303 said:
Oh I have nothing against that kind of discussion. It's when people are blind and make up things to justify Slaine's stupidity and hypocrisy that things get messy.

deadoptimist said:


You suggest to not mention Slaine at all or hide people preference of Slaine over Inaho?

Darklight0303 said:


I'm fine with people liking Slaine. As long as they admit that he's fucked up every step of the way. You can like whoever you want as long as you admit their fuckups and don't make up things to try and make them look good.

Logic and reason.

Darklight0303 said:
I'm fine with people liking Slaine. As long as they admit that he's fucked up every step of the way. You can like whoever you want as long as you admit their fuckups and don't make up things to try and make them look good.

Logic and reason.

deadoptimist said:


As ANGRY2011 said above I can't agree with the statement that he has messed up everything. I think that his fuck ups are limited to certian moments.

Do you imply that an interpretation of a character that differs from yours doesn't have right to be expressed and can't be discussed in a civilized manner - only bashed?

ANGRY2011 said:


Slaine's made his share of mistakes, but depending on his goals I wouldn't say he's fucked up EVERY step of the way.

The extremism on both sides is what prohibits good discussion.

CookingPriest said:
HE failed at everything he set out to achieve and only made the matters worse in ever case he was involved in
And him "trying to help vers" will most likely lead to Inaho winning.

So yes, that DOES count as failing every step of the way

deadoptimist said:


Er... Sorry, but caps lock doesn't help. Also he has achieved hight social status.

CookingPriest said:


HE failed at everything he set out to achieve and only made the matters worse in ever case he was involved in

And him "trying to help vers" will most likely lead to Inaho winning.

So yes, that DOES count as failing every step of the way

CookingPriest said:
HE failed at everything he set out to achieve and only made the matters worse in ever case he was involved in

And him "trying to help vers" will most likely lead to Inaho winning.

So yes, that DOES count as failing every step of the way

Inugirlz said:


Please admit that the above comment is purely based on your own biases, because really? He failed at EVERYTHING every step of the way? Really?

Before I mention his achievements how about we hold off on speculations on how the series will end. His "trying to help Vers" might actually amount to something. In the end, we don't know if things will turn to shit or not. Based on Aldnoah's faulty storytelling it can go anyway.

Slaine's accomplishments: First, his primarily goal was to confirm whether the princess was actually dead. He did. Even managed to kill the idiot martian that was going to go after her again.

He also escaped Cruhteo's ship (alone, mind you) to go confirm that she was with the orange kataphrakt. Where he proceeded to save everyone. I think lots of people are missing a key scene from episode 7. That martian lady was going to kill everyone...even Inaho thought they were doomed, he ran out of bullets and at the last moment Slaine came and saved them (and was later thanked by being interrogated which led to him being shot down--his fault too but thats a different conversation, let it die). What would have happened if he never intervened? Inaho would be dead and the only useful member keeping the Deucalion afloat would result in that martian killing everyone (including the princess). So it was an achievement. Simply looking at the negative side to this event (him being shot down, captured and tortured) is one-sided and bias.

Instead of losing his shit after the Sauzbaum shot the princess he made the wise decision to use him instead of shooting him and ending up some outlaw with no power (which would have been "made matters worse" as you put it). This landed him his current position of a count (lots of power there). And also resulted in saving the princess from certain death. She may be unconscious but he did retrieve her, which was his goal.

Also if he failed at every step he wouldn't have won in that duel, would have lost his privilege of being the princess' guardian or just be dead.

Darklight0303 said:
LOL you think that will make him happy once he loses the princess? Nope it's a hollow achievment.

Darklight0303 said:
ALso anything related to Lemrina and done in the name of the fake Asseylum does not count.

Darklight0303 said:

He didn't escape Cruhteo's ship completely on his own. Sazbaum made Cruhteo LET him leave in order to trail him.

Also him deciding to use Sazbaum does not cancel out his utter retardation when he saved Sazbaum from Inaho which in turn endangered the princess. So that still counts it as a failure since he ALMOST lost his precious princess because of it.

ALso anything related to Lemrina and done in the name of the fake Asseylum does not count.

Jcan2 said:
When she finally woke up, I was so happy to see her alive and well, instead of in that fish tank. Slaine oh b**** a** was crying oh how I miss you but he has changed a whole lot if anything he will be the cause of her demise if anything and he will really loose it if they go that route.

Jcan2 said:
Inaho I am assuming feels that she is alive, I can only speculate because of his smile. The UEF now have problems since the Knights are going to be more organized now

ANGRY2011 said:
WE DID THIS LAST WEEK PEOPLE.

Let's not do it again.

Please let it die.

ANGRY2011 said:
I seriously doubt Asseylum would end up with Slaine. The writers would be just all over the place if they pulled something like that. All the hints we've seen so far point towards an Inaho pairing.

ANGRY2011 said:
I'm not exactly sure what you're saying, but if you're just commenting on the duel ending with a death, I was sure from the instant the duel was declared that both sides were going to go for a lethal victory. It would be the fastest way for Marlycian to get rid of Slaine and the fastest way for Slaine to show dominance.

I don't know if Vers duels are required to be to the death either, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. Slaine did pretty well not only killing his foe, but saving the mech from irreparable damage.

Ratohnhaketon said:
Slaine has become a son, a count, and a husband. This guy has it made.