Battle shounen being misunderstood on this website

@RobertBobert
"How is this different from any passionate fans of any genre?" -
As I said, it's far more impactful/noticeable, at least it was for me (I don't know what you meant by "this", but it should apply to most of the things I wrote). Also, since I was referring to the community as a whole, it's not specifically about the passionate fans, but also their absolute and relative numbers.
Please just don't use these kinds of ignorant phrases ... I also didn't headline your post with ~but they/others do it too!~ (although that would have been a perfect target) and instead added something that I think is important from my point of view.

"Not to mention that fans and the genre itself are two different things." -
I'm not sure where I supposedly mixed it up, but maybe that clears things up:
You wrote that attacks on battle shounen are popular because their community is an easy target. I added that conflict with that community (by voicing one's negative opinion of the genre) is also often motivated by their persistent recommendations; so perhaps the whole easy target theory may be a bit simplistic and less of a factor than some people think.
Also, I wanted to show how being "nice" (battle shounen fans at the same time do not have elitist fans) can sometimes be more infuriating than just brightly flaming banter (moe/idol fans hitting back) when discussing anime recommendations/taste.

@BigBoyAdvance
I am 37 and my favorite animes are shounen and the number being a battle shounen HxX. And if you think that about DBZ you are talking nonsense.
DBZ doesn't compare in quality with many battle shounen, DBZ was great back then, now not so much.

@DigiCat not disagreeing with you there but typically the non shounen fan is looking to talk about other anime with the other person but when their recommendation is dismissed so quickly it leads to a biased dislike of that genre. Again, I don't think its one particular reason, it has to do with multiple factors and being that the genre is so huge and defended so vehemently makes it easy for people to get turned off. From the outside, it tends to look like a cult like behavior even though it's not the intention of the fanbase overall.

@ShinyLotus What you're describing is no different from a normal situation where you're annoyed by passionate fans of things you don't like. Just because in your personal case it happens around battle shonen doesn't mean it's any different from being annoyed by the yuri fans or high school rom-com fans. Not to mention, obsessive fans are another thing that makes battle shonen a very easy target to attack.

@RobertBobert
"What you're describing is no different from a normal situation where you're annoyed by passionate fans of things you don't like. Just because in your personal [...]"
>Well, it wasn't an experience/observation I had with all the other things [I didn't like; but also in general] in the same way. So of course I highlight it in the places where I saw it happen more often.
Wait, are you surprised that someone is using their observations? ... What did you expect - surveys and web scraping projects with stats (although you can recommend something like that ... especially the second one sounds like fun)?

Of course, other people have read/seen different reviews/discussions on the internet and talked to different people than I have. That's the reason we discuss here, to understand different perspectives and create a more nuanced knowledge of different opinions, at least that's what I thought.

"Just because in your personal case it happens around battle shonen doesn't mean it's any different from being annoyed yuri fans or high school rom-com fans." -
>How can you just state common characteristics of different communities (~your first post), and when someone else (well, me) does it, you just keep hitting them with ~every community does it/everyone experiences it~. I really don't understand your reasoning ...

Just tell me if you haven't noticed the same thing I have, or if you think the communities are not really different. Maybe add a few examples or personal anecdotes. Or even give me statistics. But jumping back and forth between ~my opinion is valuable because it uses generalisations I agree with and points out trends~ and ~your opinion is rubbish because it uses generalisations I disagree with and ignores trends~ has become obnoxious. I thought it was just a hasty mistake but you keep on doing it.

"Not to mention, obsessive fans are another thing that makes battle shonen a very easy target to attack." -
>Is this an actual agreement with me (even though you attacked my basis) or what do you mean by "obsessed fans"? The fighting shounen fans? What kind of obsessed ones?
Are we actually able to talk about the things that matter instead of trying to win nonsensical and artificial arguments (even if it was a disagreement I fully support this part of your post)?

@LoveYourSmile You still haven't proven that I made some kind of generalization. Just continuing to desperately look for reasons to blame me for this, to give me a moralistic lecture about how it's okay to hate something. After this, your attempts to accuse me of a lack of arguments and no less desperate attempts to literally insist that should I agree with you are simply incredibly pathetic. If you simply have no other reasonable and mature topic to talk about, then just don't waste my time with these pathetic attempts to insult me ​​just so you don't feel hurt by a pointless argument.

"touch the grass... too far for you... desperately... moralistic... desperate... pathetic... pathetic"

Ok, now that you position is justified, I should retreat, ahaha.

"Insult you"? How?

"Generalization not proven?" I did that in my post above, with a literal quote from your original post.

"Mature topic and waste of your time." Oh dear, you can't convey a respectful conversation at the age of 34. What maturity or precious time are you talking about. I literally pointed out to where you were wrong, twice.

The hatred of random stranger on the Internet saying you are wrong is your typical level of manchild attempts to assert themselves through theatrical attacks on what they consider an easy victim.

Hope you don't feel offended, as it's just your original phrase with a few words adjusted to reflect your behavior in this thread.

A lot of people shit on battle shonen to make themselves feel good as an "anime elitist" and make themselves feel more "mature" and "grown". I've seen so many comments talking about "battle shonen might be watchable if I was 12 years old" but they themselves are only in their late teens to young adult phase.

A lot of battle shonen are more than just kicks and punches, sadly some anime fans aren't mature enough to realize that adults can enjoy "kids" show too, even shows like Yu Gi Oh, Pokemon or Digimon.

Some people don't like "shounen" fights with shouting and stuff, even when they have "substance."

And it's "easy to market to a younger audience" because it's literally made for a younger audience. Whatever "substance" is being discussed and conveyed, it's mainly aimed at children. Some people don't like that either.

Whether that's "fair" or not is a matter of opinion; don't we all have "dealbreakers" that we hate seeing in an anime, no matter the quality of the rest of the anime?

Yet anıother thread turned into a mess by RobertBobert's passive aggressive trolling techniques. Well it wasn't a good thread anyway.

@perseii When people confuse the issue of taste with the issue of quality, it is most annoying to me. Especially when it’s not just a matter of taste, but simply a dislike for something because of a different target audience. For example, when you constantly see fans of all-female content attacking genres for the male demographic, or when fans of the male demographic complain about content for the female demographic.

@ToG25thBaam Actually, that's what I was talking about. It's especially funny when people take teen anime and unironically start complaining about how it's aimed at teenagers. That is, in their understanding, creating content for teenagers is so bad that even teen show from all sides, should be ashamed of it.

I'd say the line is pretty blurry, if it exists at all.

It's valid to criticize something that just happens to be a common or integral part of a genre. If I dislike shouting during fights, "but shounen fights always have shouting" is not that great of a defense; I still don't like it and think it's lame. (hypothetically speaking; I do like Demon Slayer)

As for going out of our way to attack fans of the other genre... yeah, it's pointless and ridiculous, but we just can't help ourselves, can we. I do my best to just keep my mouth shut in those arguments.

Some people don't like "shounen" fights with shouting and stuff, even when they have "substance."

And it's "easy to market to a younger audience" because it's literally made for a younger audience. Whatever "substance" is being discussed and conveyed, it's mainly aimed at children. Some people don't like that either.

Whether that's "fair" or not is a matter of opinion; don't we all have "dealbreakers" that we hate seeing in an anime, no matter the quality of the rest of the anime?

@perseii

It’s completely understandable if someone dislikes battle shounen, I’m talking about when people go out of their way to say it’s brainless trash. I also don’t believe in the idea that just because the themes are aimed at children that it can’t be deep either, although it’s rlly hard to pull this off (I think avatar the last airbender does it well)

@Kenzolo-folk If even the defenders of children's shows allow themselves to say “this is a show for children, it doesn’t have to be smart,” then what about the haters? Although I agree that people who measure quality by the age of the target audience are quite unbearable. Suffice it to remember how part of the fandom obsessively tried to declare AoT seinen in order not to admit that the show they adored was aimed at teenagers.

@RobertBobert

I don’t think people wanted aot to be seinen because they didn’t want to believe it was aimed at teenagers. I can see why someone would think it better fits seinen because it was already experiencing a lot of censorship by its anime, and it stopped following the typical battle shounen format. There’s sexual assault, torture scenes, dismemberment, yk stuff that isn’t rlly typical for battle shounen.

@Kenzolo-folk In theory, yes. But I have literally seen people who hated shonen and thus tried to defend the show in their own eyes. Especially when the show's haters used the typical "it's battle shonen, so it's a bad show" against AoT. This is a classic example of how people waste time in useless arguments due to addiction to labels.

@RobertBobert That's so dumb...
An actual seinen "battle shounen" would be something like this https://myanimelist.net/anime/6758/Tatakau_Shisho__The_Book_of_Bantorra
It has more or less all the tropes, but like stylistically it's so much different than AoT.

Kek imagine having such shit taste is late 30s. Never mentally and intellectually surpassing the development of a teenager.

@BigBoyAdvance

this guy said "women expire at 18" btw

ur preference for "women" hasnt gone past the development of a teenager

@JaniSIr I didn't quite understand what you were trying to say, but essentially these things arise because people first create a very forced stereotype of what battle shonen is, and then fall into the trap when a show contradicts such expectations.

@RobertBobert Basically the point is that Attack on Titan actually is a pretty standard shounen, except it had an above average story until season 4 ruined everything retroactively, but that's a different discussion...
I linked a "battle shounen", that's tagged seinen. It literally has a "power of friendship" ending, but stylistically it's so different from AoT, that there is no way anyone could reasonably argue that AoT is not a shounen.

@ShinyLotus I don’t understand whose words about observations you are quoting; there was nothing like that in my comment. I just want to show you that this is more a question of fans or haters as a social phenomenon than of any genres. If you like the genre, then you will like the advice of other fans and irritate the prejudices of haters, and vice versa if you don’t like it. This is a banal mechanism of the human psychology. Of course, each audience may still have characteristics such as the imagined rivalries between characters in the battle shonen fandom or the obsession with tags in the yuri fandom, but as far as I understand, we are talking about something else now.

What I'm saying is that if fans of a genre have a bad reputation, whether deserved or not, it makes it much easier to attack the genre itself. For example, I often encounter situations where people, in response to the question “why do you think battle shonen is a bad genre?” can’t answer anything other than complaints about this or that habit of its fans.

@JaniSIr Well, it's again a matter of labels and expectations. Remember the infamous stereotype that blushing means romance and how many people complained about the non-existent lolicon in Spy x Family just because Anya was blushing when Lloyd finally accepted her as his daughter.

@RobertBobert No, and I wish it was 1 minute ago when I didn't know that was a thing.

@JaniSIr This is just one of the countless cases where people fail to look beyond stereotypes due to ignorance or simply narrow thinking. For example, I've seen a lot of times where people are surprised that two female characters aren't a couple just because THEY ARE ROOMMATES.

"touch the grass... too far for you... desperately... moralistic... desperate... pathetic... pathetic"

Ok, now that you position is justified, I should retreat, ahaha.

"Insult you"? How?

"Generalization not proven?" I did that in my post above, with a literal quote from your original post.

"Mature topic and waste of your time." Oh dear, you can't convey a respectful conversation at the age of 34. What maturity or precious time are you talking about. I literally pointed out to where you were wrong, twice.

The hatred of random stranger on the Internet saying you are wrong is your typical level of manchild attempts to assert themselves through theatrical attacks on what they consider an easy victim.

Hope you don't feel offended, as it's just your original phrase with a few words adjusted to reflect your behavior in this thread.

@RobertBobert It was quite a shocker when I learned that like 90% of shows labelled yuri by the fandom don't actually have any romance in it...

But like Attack on Titan has exactly as much shouting as I'd expect from a shounen, so I don't see how does this apply here.

@perseii

It’s completely understandable if someone dislikes battle shounen, I’m talking about when people go out of their way to say it’s brainless trash. I also don’t believe in the idea that just because the themes are aimed at children that it can’t be deep either, although it’s rlly hard to pull this off (I think avatar the last airbender does it well)

@JaniSIr You'll be surprised to find out how much hentai from before the second half of the 90s now hardly even crosses the border of strong ecchi, lmao. But that's another conversation.

It's about stereotypes and expectations. People have so embraced the idea that any shonen is a kids' show for teens, and in the Western sense of teen shows, that when shonen contradicts this, it shocks them so much that they try to call it seinen.

@RobertBobert If people didn't expect Attack on Titan to be for teens, then we must have been watching very different shows.

I believe it's because, ironically, the themes and message require deeper thought than some shows, no disrespect to other genres they're all well written they're themes just take centre stage more often than in battle Shonen. The themes can sometimes be veiled behind the fun characters and big fights. It's the smaller less important moments that present the themes until that themes takes the foreground in that respective arc or shows concluding fight. So the themes and story can be interpreted as childish by less attentive readers because the themes are more hidden before that and there often presented through metaphors and actions rather than words. I believe the fanbases can also play a part. Additionally it's that the more popular shows tend not to have themes as deep as others and tend to be overrun by the flashy animation that could take away from the story. I think anyone can enjoy battle Shonen they just need to find the right one and pay attention.

nope sorry, battle shounen is the worst genre. It's so childish, repetitive and annoying. And it just goes on and on forever without ever getting to the point. Boy, I sure do hate me some battle shounen.

@Zorpanur I don't think battle shonen is the most theme heavy genre and what you say about themes with metaphors and actions is just good stories in general but I agree with people not paying attention, a lot of battle shonens like MHA or JJK while not being the deepest stories ever and I can criticise a lot of things about them, around half of the criticisms towards MHA for example can be easily debunked by seeing people who say it haven't pay attention/think every shonen is exactly like naruto and from my understanding probable misunderstand Naruto too, there are genuine criticisms towards characters like Ochacko but people just say her entire character revolves around Deku and it's wrong, and she's probably the character I can criticise the most (still like her)

nope sorry, battle shounen is the worst genre. It's so childish, repetitive and annoying. And it just goes on and on forever without ever getting to the point. Boy, I sure do hate me some battle shounen.

@epidemia78 Yeah, those points are totally limited to just shounen stuff.

@FanofAction

most other genres arent given enough seasons to become repetitive. Battle shounen just eats up all the anime funding which could be spent elsewhere telling a story that the author isnt just pulling from his ass to jerk around the audience with fake deaths and other garbage like that.

@Guilmon1 I absolutely agree MHA and JJK are both good shows but they do have quite a few problems same goes for other Shonen. It's definitely not the most heavily themed but the themes are definitely mature enough if you watch the right ones. Battle Shonen is by no means the pinnacle of story telling and anime probably but they're still damn good.

@Guilmon1 I absolutely agree MHA and JJK are both good shows but they do have quite a few problems same goes for other Shonen. It's definitely not the most heavily themed but the themes are definitely mature enough if you watch the right ones. Battle Shonen is by no means the pinnacle of story telling and anime probably but they're still damn good.