Helenus said: Maybe this incident will finally open the eyes of the European leaders.
I sure hope, i feel like this is only a start.
Eh, I doubt it, it's not that it's the first. Remember an English soldier cut in the middle of the day? I am pretty sure that there were other cases I can't remember now. And it's not Germany, and EU is somewhat of a Reich currently.
I just can't see EU leaders admitting they were wrong after they've relied on the multiculturalism and welcoming rhetorics for so long.
Izumii said: It's stupid when all muslims are accused of certain groups actions. But yes you can't deny that most extremists are coming from Islam these days.
The fun thing is that precisely on this forums you can meet a lot of younger people from muslim countries, for example Pakistan, who are worried about the state of their religion and feel that some brands of teaching may be inadequate to the modern world and create problems.
That's simply not true at all. None of us, at least those I know, believe the teaching of our religion is inadequate to the modern world or that it creates problems. The problem is the people misusing the teachings of the religions for their own purpose.
Yes, I'm sure Muslims are MISUSING what is said in the Quran. Like these for example:
]Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98
On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161
Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191
Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39
Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you.
..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43
If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8
You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead. They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71
Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74
Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. - 4:76
But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. - 4:89
Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. - 5:14
O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54
Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39
O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65
It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. - 8:67
Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the unbelievers. - 9:2-3
When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5
Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28
Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute.
Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41
O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73
Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. - 9:111
Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers....
As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15
Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60
Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14
When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.
Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5
Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25
Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29
Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51
Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame.
Yeah good job taking all of those out of context to make a point. I'm sure you're proud son but that's not how the interpretation of Quran works.
Anyone who thinks these quotes are out of context is an idiot. It says "slay them" as clearly as possible. It is impossible for that to be in or out of context. Also, the "roast in Hell" lines are very explicit and encourage hatred towards non-Muslims.
Islam is the problem, and it has to be gotten rid of.
But then the Qur’an 6:151 says, “and do not kill a soul that God has made sacrosanct, save lawfully.”
And "Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs." Surah 5:32
So what now mate? You clearly understand Quran more than I do and it makes no difference if its out of context. How am I supposed to kill an infidel if it tells me not to murder? Oh by the way most of those translations you posted are wrong lol. There are no perfect translation of Quran in English.
Too bad this couldn't have happened at NASCAR (since "redneck" has been so liberally thrown around), because the hunters would have become the hunted. It would have been over in 10 minutes and back to racing LOL.
Clebardman said: More than 100 corpses in Bataclan alone according to AFP.
wtff
It was a Deftones concert BTW. I'm not a fan of that band, but there are probably a few here. No informations about the band members.
No it was an Eagles Of Death Metal concert, Deftones perform in Paris tomorrow - well technically today.
I think they won't be playing there anytime soon.
Yeah, a friend posted a video through the hotel he's staying at in Paris and it looks crazy, if his flight wasn't delayed, he'd have actually made it to that Eagles Of Death Metal Concert..
Aiya_Manami said: Now the countries will close borders to the refugees.
This happens when they dont decide fast what to do with all these ppl coming in Europe.
Western Europe should learn what Hungary and other Eastern European countries did to prevent things like this
Twitter and it's consequences had been a disaster for the human race
Altairius said: This is the big myth: that somehow those who support killing infidels and apostates are some fringe minority that are perverting the faith. The figures vary from country to country, but it's never a small %, even in non-theocracies, and those ideas come directly from the sacred texts.
It's just that I feel that I can't really point fingers, since I belong to a Christian culture, and Cristians did kill and burn in the name of God a lot, and many of their victims were mislim. Yet Christianity did become meeker with time. Maybe Islam can do so too. Anyways cancelling it completely is much less realistic than reforming.
But yeah, it is obvious that extremists are big in mumbers. Also sadly their propaganda is strong.
I think it has to be reformed too, but that's a huge challenge. Again, it's an unpopular thing to say, but there is a huge difference between Jesus and Muhammad. People need to realize that. It's dangerous to assume everyone ultimately wants the same things in life.
European leaders should just get there shit together and kick all those imigrants, sorry for the people who legit are looking for a better life but this is clearly not working.
Altairius said: I think it has to be reformed too, but that's a huge challenge. Again, it's an unpopular thing to say, but there is a huge difference between Jesus and Muhammad. People need to realize that. It's dangerous to assume everyone ultimately wants the same things in life.
I must admit that I don't know for sure, whether there's something in Quran that prevents the peaceful coexistence of islam with other religions. Maybe I wear rose glasses, since I think of religions more in terms of faith and it's positive ethical effect on the world (sometimes).
But other options are (at best) pacification and a simmering conflict till forever or (at worst) obliteration of one of the parties, and the second will happen in the case of the first anyways, only later. I don't see how Islam can be sucessfully banned. No teaching has ever been sucessfully banned - not nazism, not racism, not KKK.