HolyRevenant said: f the market wants equal recognition of women in anime, then there WILL be equal recognition. hell yes!!! I also took econ 101 friend! |
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| Donghua has much better women characters on average. It seems to come down to having a certain level of self respect. Japanese characters in general usually are lacking in self respect, unless they are antagonists, who are usually full of themselves. |
| My biggest take on women in anime is that I want Misato Katsuragi to sit on my face. |
Take care of yourself |
| Well if I made an anime these days I would get sweetanita to voice the main character and would keep her turrets as part of the dialogue, she also wouldn't have those tropes you're talking about. Like for example all team mates being male, there would be a blend. The strongest character would be a female final boss who has a charming asshole-ish personnality because she knows she's the best. The females would swear just as much as the men and honestly, be just as brutal in fights. Now if someone says any comment on how unrealistic that is, watch reality shows, not animation lol. |
LoveLikeBlood said: My biggest take on women in anime is that I want Misato Katsuragi to sit on my face. lots of people will read this, and they'll laugh at your joke, and they'll thank you in their head, not just for the laughter but also for the relevant and constructive commentary on the topic at hand, your contribution to this thread was a great one, good job king |
|
Lionalanda said: Take that with a big grain of salt. Not everyone who's ok with sexual content leans strictly in that direction...Imoutocore said: Ah, that's why lots of girls/women that are not fan of anime are not interested in meeting male anime fans. wrong website for this discussion dude, we lean alt-right here, nobody cares about the women |
| Now this thread got me thinking. "Everyone" blaming anime for over sexualization of women etcetc. What is over sexualization of men? What even is sexual in men? Being shirtless and having big mooscles is not enough and comparable to women characters having bigger than average bouncing breasts? What would you guys recommend to change on the male characters to be comparably sexualized? Having a huge ass donkey dong? Women and Girls are by nature on a whole different level of being sexual than men and boys. Blaming anime for this behaviour is ridiculous. Everyone & Everything sexualizes them. And maybe if women stopped sexualizing themselves then eventually media would follow, I don't know, not gonna happen anyway. It's harder to get rid of things than it is to implement new, so maybe we should need to find ways to turn men just as objectified & sexual & having more panty shots and whatever. ^ I dunno about you guys, but even when there's some things in the current system that I might dislike, I for sure prefer that over this alternate eldritch universe imagined above. |
| Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
Hulio said: And maybe if women stopped sexualizing themselves then eventually media would follow, I don't know, not gonna happen anyway. wheezing and crying rn these women smh |
|
Hulio said: First of all, of course men also are sexualized in anime but that‘s not what I was getting at in this thread. My focus right here is on women in anime. Also, it‘s not about making the sexes comparable either. I wouldn‘t wish on anyone to be objectified. Now this thread got me thinking. "Everyone" blaming anime for over sexualization of women etcetc. What is over sexualization of men? What even is sexual in men? Being shirtless and having big mooscles is not enough and comparable to women characters having bigger than average bouncing breasts? What would you guys recommend to change on the male characters to be comparably sexualized? Having a huge ass donkey dong? Women and Girls are by nature on a whole different level of being sexual than men and boys. Blaming anime for this behaviour is ridiculous. Everyone & Everything sexualizes them. And maybe if women stopped sexualizing themselves then eventually media would follow, I don't know, not gonna happen anyway. It's harder to get rid of things than it is to implement new, so maybe we should need to find ways to turn men just as objectified & sexual & having more panty shots and whatever. ^ I dunno about you guys, but even when there's some things in the current system that I might dislike, I for sure prefer that over this alternate eldritch universe imagined above. Women cannot control that they are growing breasts that have more volume. Doesn‘t give anyone the right to objectify and sexualize it. No one blames anime for it. Anime are just part of a problem and mal is an anime forum so that‘s why the discussion is focussed on anime right now. As if the normal day-to-day woman sexualizes herself or even wants that (I don‘t wanna talk for all), it‘s probably that you consume lotsa media that‘s showing you what you wanna see. |
| If it‘s not on a plate, it can wait... |
| @TheFireNinja consistently the most based MAL shitposter |
|
| Well as a woman myself i admit i never really get what the objectification complaints in media even is about...i mean in real women the difference between being objectified and just being sexy for the sake of wanting it as far as i understood it is agency and consent as far as the theory go...but what consent and agency can a paper character have? Then what is it even about really? Not having the right to write and draw girls in a sexy way for whatever reason? I mean i'm a yaoi fan and i can confirm many guys in girls targeted manga that have a erotic leaning are just as shallow and only there to be a personnification of a sexual fantasy than your average anime meido girl is. I dont really have a problem with guys having such kind of erotic fantasy characters to be honest i just wish they were a bit less and a bit more more fleshed women characters (someone mentionned Misato lately only mentionning her sex appeal but if people actually paid attention to the story they also could see that she has lot of depth as a character...its not incompatible with being a hot anime girl in fact many of them have more depth than we usually give them credit to) but well not every anime is a masterpiece character and story wise...lot of them are average and well hentai and ecchi shows with shallow sexy characters exists for a reason...people have a right to fantasize...its just a bit overexagerated in that direction with way too many shows of that kind but well as long as they are for the public their target explicitly and you can pass them if your not interested i'm ok with them existing for people who enjoy that. Also not every girl is straight so objectivation for males complaints always felt to me a bit uneasy because well...did we just erase the existence of lesbians and bisexuals anime fangirls getting hot over sexy anime girls from the most stupid ecchi fetishist show just for the sake of it...because they definitively are many and in such discussions they are always invisible like lusting isnt just a male thing we do have sex drive too you know?...and even straight girls very often also like to look at pretty anime girls and draw them...like 90% of fanart drawers are anime fangirls doing very sexualized anime girl pictures from what i've seen i'm taking a good bet they enjoy it that way and certainly do not do that just to be male-pleasing. Personnally i do like being sexy irl and knows lot of women who enjoy that too...that only become a problem when guys dont understand consent but that no sexy clothes but the guys in question to blame, i dont really get what a girl in real life sexualizing herself even would mean if its willingly then i dont really see any matter and that kind of border on slut shaming so i'm not sure it's that feminist a perspective i mean how many times people did said to me that i shouldnt like cosplay because they somehow find girls getting in sexy costume for their own fun offensive for an example that is annoying and rather reactionnary attitude, arent we suppose to be sexually liberated? I mean i can get that other girls would like a more discrete style and not be at ease with that its ok but some of them got so mean over us enjoying that it sounds suspect sometimes i think it's more jealousy than feminism to be honest especially has i do have big boobs irl so seeing the discussion about how its not realistic is weird like...yeah nah we do exist that types of body may be rarer but some girls do have it...saying that is like seeing we arent real wtf? That said...speaking about it if one anime trope around that kind of topic truly need to die its depicting as a lovable guy with a little innocent pervert side someone who in real life would end up in problem with justice for repeated sexual harassement of girl who clearly repeated not wanting their hands in their boobs many times. I mean guy if your that desperate go fap when your alone but respect the lady wishing that not that hard. The stuff about anime guys fans being stereotyped as more sexist than any other guys well honest i feel its just a stereotype...some especially incels maybe more vocals about misogyny because of sexual frustration but plenty of guys who are not stereotypically geeky anime fan and who have a more typical socially successful guy who get many girls image are just awful too...they just hide it better. Also most of the anime fan guys who shit on women with stupid sexist comment regularly on websites are youngs and/or pretty inexperimented guys with real life girls who try to hide their shyness over them that get them not getting any besides anime characters by trying to bullshiting themselves into pretending its not their personnal failing to dare approach girls but that girls are superficial bitches or some brainless sexist stuff that way for actually choosing the one who did dare ask them out to go out with over the friend they never knew wanted them from years...i mean some guy i've dated in junior high school who was that kind of guy is still not over our "love story" now and its actually did go on just two weeks and we are fucking 30...seriously that mean his love life must have been pretty lonely ever since...lot of guys with this mindset are very lonely souls that choose a pretty bad way to cope with it by blaming the girls instead of making the necessary step for achieving their goals in romance for the most part. Steps of which going out of the "macho loser" mentality surely is one but it probably needs time, reflexion and getting over lot of deceptions and self realization. This guys are 100% accountable for shitting on women with zero substantial reason but i think all of that must be taken into account for seeing where they come from and how they can go from that to changing for the better instead of essentializing anime fan guys as all hopeless man hater nerds. That too is pretty cliché and tons of otakus guys actually are not that way at all, most of the time in convention i've felt completely secure with guys even in pretty sexy clothes...at worst they did too much photo and i couldnt advance but that the maximum annoyment i ever get and i did many convention in sexy cosplay so...me thinks lots of what superficially may look like a sex war between some girls thinking being against sexy clothes is feminism and incels doing way too long litany about how they hate women because none are interested in a guy that do overtly loathe them so much...actually seem to have way more to do with self confidence issues than politics on both sides in my eyes. |
SylphelineMar 3, 2023 11:57 PM
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| Personally I completely disagree with this framing and this whole "sexualization"talk (which is adjacent to what you're saying). I think there's a lot of cool things about women and they can be allowed to exist along side their sexiness, as a man I don't understand why making a woman pretty or big boobed must come with an apology. There's so much to unpack here but for now I'll just say the beauties and the damsels in distress are boring characters yes, because they are so overdone, but that does not mean that those characters can't have more sides to them and be allowed to do interesting things or that being a beauty or a damsel somehow makes a character bad. I guess if you're point is that you just wanna see more of that "cool" stuff then join the club brother, you and me both as well as the rest of the human race. |
AnjuroMar 3, 2023 3:38 PM
new_Ango said: Hulio said: First of all, of course men also are sexualized in anime but that‘s not what I was getting at in this thread. My focus right here is on women in anime. Also, it‘s not about making the sexes comparable either. I wouldn‘t wish on anyone to be objectified. Now this thread got me thinking. "Everyone" blaming anime for over sexualization of women etcetc. What is over sexualization of men? What even is sexual in men? Being shirtless and having big mooscles is not enough and comparable to women characters having bigger than average bouncing breasts? What would you guys recommend to change on the male characters to be comparably sexualized? Having a huge ass donkey dong? Women and Girls are by nature on a whole different level of being sexual than men and boys. Blaming anime for this behaviour is ridiculous. Everyone & Everything sexualizes them. And maybe if women stopped sexualizing themselves then eventually media would follow, I don't know, not gonna happen anyway. It's harder to get rid of things than it is to implement new, so maybe we should need to find ways to turn men just as objectified & sexual & having more panty shots and whatever. ^ I dunno about you guys, but even when there's some things in the current system that I might dislike, I for sure prefer that over this alternate eldritch universe imagined above. Women cannot control that they are growing breasts that have more volume. Doesn‘t give anyone the right to objectify and sexualize it. No one blames anime for it. Anime are just part of a problem and mal is an anime forum so that‘s why the discussion is focussed on anime right now. As if the normal day-to-day woman sexualizes herself or even wants that (I don‘t wanna talk for all), it‘s probably that you consume lotsa media that‘s showing you what you wanna see. Why are you thinking so much about it in the first place? It's just fiction = escapism = fantasy = not real. Women in Anime don't look like women irl and straight man weebs know. Anime was never a problem in the first place since they're showing what they want to see. |
| All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath. |
TheFireNinja said: Imoutocore said: Don't really know what you're talking about. But if that's just another way of you saying that you don't agree with my take, then it's whatever. You can do something by fighting for actual fair treatment of women than fictional characters. Otherwise you're just a poser.@TheFireNinja consistently the most based MAL shitposter Don't take him seriously, if you read his profile he says he is trolling. |
 |
new_Ango said: Cool, but I really don't care. Have fun with your weird parading. Tropisch said: Hey, if you don‘t like me posting my thoughts on mal you don‘t have to participate in this discussion. There‘s different types of entertainment and you don‘t always have to entertain at the cost of others. And hey, you do you. Like the kinda content you want to, I‘m happy for everyone finding their peace.Did you accidentally log into the wrong site OP? This isn't Twitter. Stop trying to police entertainment. I opened this forum to talk a little on the matter and find my own peace. It‘s great exchanging thoughts with each other and challenging each others opinions. So thanks for sharing your thoughts. |
| "Well, she's flatter than a pancake" -Mimi Alpacas "Woof" -Tobiichi Origami "Are you trying to turn the dormitory into a strip club!?! -Atena Saotome |
| There is a range of "well written and developed" female characters for an appealing audience that demands that their series be realistic, and that seek to want to explain the most trivial detail possible. They have been around for decades and still are today. It is the fan's fault that they only settle for watching popular seasonal series and it is enough for them to conclude that they know a lot about anime history. Likewise, there is also a range of male characters that are constantly sexualized in the entertainment medium targeted for the enjoyment of women (and men as well), but that is not mentioned much in the public opinion since it is a demographic that does not contain the same popularity as what is considered mainstream (waifu, fanservice, etc). This discussion about the objectification and sexualization of fictional characters is nothing more than a disguise that hides under it conservative and puritanical thoughts on sexuality, from right to left, and I blame Western Christian culture for teaching society that sex it is questionable if the person has the desire to consume something that seeks to satisfy his carnal desires when this is something that belongs to our animal nature. |
   You and the rose are connected. Know the weight of your own life |
| There's no reason to change how it is. It should go further in this direction. |
 |
Rachiba said: It is the fan's fault that they only settle for watching popular seasonal series and it is enough for them to conclude that they know a lot about anime history. Got that @new_Ango ? stop watching seasonal anime only and brush up on your history  |
|
| I recommend this anime: https://myanimelist.net/anime/38276/Houkago_Saikoro_Club Basically about a bunch of girls playing and creating board games that is all about their characters and friendships with others |
| This is your reminder to drink water 💦 or eat some fruit 🍒 🥝 |
new_Ango said: Men enjoying womens breasts is a problem? My friend you are fighting an uphill battle against nature itself. Humans are sexual creatures. The idea that women are somehow being unnaturally sexualised is just bizarre.Hulio said: First of all, of course men also are sexualized in anime but that‘s not what I was getting at in this thread. My focus right here is on women in anime. Also, it‘s not about making the sexes comparable either. I wouldn‘t wish on anyone to be objectified. Now this thread got me thinking. "Everyone" blaming anime for over sexualization of women etcetc. What is over sexualization of men? What even is sexual in men? Being shirtless and having big mooscles is not enough and comparable to women characters having bigger than average bouncing breasts? What would you guys recommend to change on the male characters to be comparably sexualized? Having a huge ass donkey dong? Women and Girls are by nature on a whole different level of being sexual than men and boys. Blaming anime for this behaviour is ridiculous. Everyone & Everything sexualizes them. And maybe if women stopped sexualizing themselves then eventually media would follow, I don't know, not gonna happen anyway. It's harder to get rid of things than it is to implement new, so maybe we should need to find ways to turn men just as objectified & sexual & having more panty shots and whatever. ^ I dunno about you guys, but even when there's some things in the current system that I might dislike, I for sure prefer that over this alternate eldritch universe imagined above. Women cannot control that they are growing breasts that have more volume. Doesn‘t give anyone the right to objectify and sexualize it. No one blames anime for it. Anime are just part of a problem and mal is an anime forum so that‘s why the discussion is focussed on anime right now. As if the normal day-to-day woman sexualizes herself or even wants that (I don‘t wanna talk for all), it‘s probably that you consume lotsa media that‘s showing you what you wanna see. |
| God, I don't know what I hate more, honestly. The coomers, or the extreme sex negative types. new_Ango said: You are saying this, when the market has been saturated with shows that have centred around girls who are more assertive, towards sheepish male characters. Not even mentioning the fact, that in anime, there are tons of female characters that do not meet your description at all. Yoruichi from Bleach, Misato from Eva... oh wait, they have boobs. I guess that's a problem then.I feel like we‘re still at this point where there‘s not a lot of female characters in anime that are celebrated for their personality, especially as main characters in the big shows. Either it‘s the big boobs, the femininity and the whole idea of needing to look pretty, the helplessness or she is the end of a joke. new_Ango said: "Breaking away from the sterotypical presentation?" And what does that mean, exactly? Just bland androgyny? Men and women are inherently different, there is nothing wrong with that. And animation is, inherently a medium that is centred around symbolic representation of objects, characters, and places. That is the point, it's because we can relate too it, in some way. It‘s more about the idea of breaking out of the stereotypical presentation of women. A lot of female characters are objectified and pressed into the roles of how society wants women to act. That‘s what I tried talking about. Thank you for your input tho. new_Ango said: How come? It‘s no news that our consumption of media influences how we think on things. There‘s anime that objectify women‘s bodies and that is for sure degrading. Creating media where different sexes are treated equally, what about it rubs you the wrong way so much? new_Ango said: See this is what irritates me... "oh I just want equal treatment in anime". Then immediately points out one of the glaring differences between men and women. This is not about equality. This is just sex negativity. Women cannot control that they are growing breasts that have more volume. Doesn‘t give anyone the right to objectify and sexualize it. No one blames anime for it. Anime are just part of a problem and mal is an anime forum so that‘s why the discussion is focussed on anime right now. |
 This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
| Good post OP! Also, I definitely agree with you. Well written female characters are uncommon but they exist and more often than not, they're relatively less popular. |
 |
Imoutocore said: It is, thanks. You know, some of the seasonal stories are still great. I can enjoy an anime and still criticize their depiction of equality between men and women. It‘s not all bad and I never tried to say that. There is just certain parts I‘d like to see from a different angle. You know, I‘m not trying to argue away other people‘s enjoyment of certain tropes, I’m just trying to shed some lights and obviously a lot of people feel like they need to state their opinion on this so even if people bash me or agree with me, people engaged with the topic and that is a win. Have a nice day. Rachiba said: It is the fan's fault that they only settle for watching popular seasonal series and it is enough for them to conclude that they know a lot about anime history. Got that @new_Ango ? stop watching seasonal anime only and brush up on your history |
| If it‘s not on a plate, it can wait... |
StarfireDragon said: Thanks for engaging. I guess I wasn‘t able to bring out my point. Women having boobs is super normal and if anime depict it in a way where it‘s not the object of lust, I‘m all for it. But be it that a lot of school kids are being depicted unrealistic in certain anime or there is the sexualization of breasts that‘s what I‘m no friend of. Men and women are anatomically different but we don‘t do big camera shots on the bulges of men around the crotch area (normally there is non of that at least) and that‘s a good thing cause it‘s just there and that‘s normal. But having a camera shot point it out regularly, that‘s my point, that‘s what I‘m personally no fan of. God, I don't know what I hate more, honestly. The coomers, or the extreme sex negative types. new_Ango said: You are saying this, when the market has been saturated with shows that have centred around girls who are more assertive, towards sheepish male characters. Not even mentioning the fact, that in anime, there are tons of female characters that do not meet your description at all. Yoruichi from Bleach, Misato from Eva... oh wait, they have boobs. I guess that's a problem then.I feel like we‘re still at this point where there‘s not a lot of female characters in anime that are celebrated for their personality, especially as main characters in the big shows. Either it‘s the big boobs, the femininity and the whole idea of needing to look pretty, the helplessness or she is the end of a joke. new_Ango said: "Breaking away from the sterotypical presentation?" And what does that mean, exactly? Just bland androgyny? Men and women are inherently different, there is nothing wrong with that. And animation is, inherently a medium that is centred around symbolic representation of objects, characters, and places. That is the point, it's because we can relate too it, in some way. It‘s more about the idea of breaking out of the stereotypical presentation of women. A lot of female characters are objectified and pressed into the roles of how society wants women to act. That‘s what I tried talking about. Thank you for your input tho. new_Ango said: How come? It‘s no news that our consumption of media influences how we think on things. There‘s anime that objectify women‘s bodies and that is for sure degrading. Creating media where different sexes are treated equally, what about it rubs you the wrong way so much? new_Ango said: See this is what irritates me... "oh I just want equal treatment in anime". Then immediately points out one of the glaring differences between men and women. This is not about equality. This is just sex negativity. Women cannot control that they are growing breasts that have more volume. Doesn‘t give anyone the right to objectify and sexualize it. No one blames anime for it. Anime are just part of a problem and mal is an anime forum so that‘s why the discussion is focussed on anime right now. And with the stereotypical presentation or the loss of it, I mean character traits and just more variety. As I said, I‘m not saying there is no female characters that are written in a way where they are depicted as a human. Bocchi from Bocchi the Rock really is just a person with anxiety. Nobara from JJk just stands in her own right. I‘m also just a person trying to figure stuff out, sharing ideas of opinions. I don‘t wanna fight you all, I just wanted to throw some of my ideas in the room and engage with you. I‘m happy seeing people giving examples of women being written nicely. And i mean sometimes you can enjoy a show with certain tropes and still criticize it. Anime are made of so many components and so yeah, there‘s so much to enjoy. Thank you very much and have a nice day. |
new_AngoMar 4, 2023 12:10 AM
| If it‘s not on a plate, it can wait... |
Fluffygreygrass said: Thank you for the positivity! Have a great day. Good post OP! Also, I definitely agree with you. Well written female characters are uncommon but they exist and more often than not, they're relatively less popular. |
| If it‘s not on a plate, it can wait... |
| My opinion is pretty plain, most of female characters in anime are just objects for r34/nhentai artists, BUT there are few that are actually well-written (f.e. Nobara Kugisaki from Jujutsu Kaisen) Do we need more characters like that? Hell yeah we do, because (for me at least) well-written, average looking female character is more attractive than Big B00ba, no personality ones. |
 |
| [/quote]Thanks for engaging. I guess I wasn‘t able to bring out my point. Women having boobs is super normal and if anime depict it in a way where it‘s not the object of lust, I‘m all for it. But be it that a lot of school kids are being depicted unrealistic in certain anime or there is the sexualization of breasts that‘s what I‘m no friend of. [/Quote] I mean, I'm not really a fan of ecchi, personally, but I really don't get why this is such an issue if someone else likes it. And... Unrealistic? Yeah, of course it is. Like I said, animation is inherently centered around exaggerated characters, and symbolic representations rather than realism. And that's a good thing. It allows for more absurd scenarios to take place. It would be a shame to exclusively limit it to what is realistic. Men and women are anatomically different but we don‘t do big camera shots on the bulges of men around the crotch area (normally there is non of that at least) and that‘s a good thing cause it‘s just there and that‘s normal. But having a camera shot point it out regularly, that‘s my point, that‘s what I‘m personally no fan of. Gratuitous fanservice doesn't appeal to women in the same way that it does to men. A crotch shot is just something that people don't want. It would be pretty funny though honestly. I also don't think that because a character is sexualized, that it takes away from their character's merit in any way. If they are a good character, they are a good character. And with the stereotypical presentation or the loss of it, I mean character traits and just more variety. As I said, I‘m not saying there is no female characters that are written in a way where they are depicted as a human. Bocchi from Bocchi the Rock really is just a person with anxiety. Nobara from JJk just stands in her own right. Wait... "depicted as human"? Well, once again, just because a character is sexualized, doesn't make them any less of a human, or a character. I‘m also just a person trying to figure stuff out sharing ideas of opinions. I‘m not gonna fight you all of, I just wanted to throw some of my ideas in the room and engage with you. I‘m happy seeing people giving examples of women being written nicely. And i mean sometimes you can enjoy a show with certain tropes and still criticize it. Anime are made of so many components and so yeah, there‘s so much to enjoy. Thank you very much and have a nice day. Fair enough. Not looking for a fmdight, it's just I see these conversations a lot, and I can never find the line where people draw in the sand on what is "ok" and what isn't. It's all subjective, and at the end of the day it never accomplishes anything |
This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
Imoutocore said: Wait, what happened in 2018 ? Enlighten me, please.On MAL, yes. I see you weren't here in 2018, so I'll let it slide, but do your research. |
-Aurelius- said: Wait, what happened in 2018 ? Enlighten me, please. public outrage after a few mods were outed as (alleged) nazi sympathizers without repercussion leading to an infestation of right extremist posts in, and the eventual closing of, the CE board. There was a pretty dramatic migration of users to similar sites after that. |
|
| It's one of the reasons why I like anime and generally Japanese popculture. |
| Dub = fake crap. Always. |
| i like them. |
i'm not an english native speaker |
| Thread locked for being a controversial/sensitive topic. Anime Discussion Rules: 5. Please refrain from posting thread topics which extend beyond the discussion of anime/manga as an entertainment medium to highly-debated social and/or moral issues. This includes but is not limited to: pedophilia, gender/racial equality, sexual orientation, etc. |
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