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| last scene was creepy as shit. archive's gone insane how'd it even do that |
Solaris----- said: Dang, never would have thought for this to take the terminator route basically, archive = skynet I also had serious terminator vibes with Archive taking control of every AI that received the update. We already have that girl from Toak bringing the victory to humanity (John Connor, female version), the time traveler Matsumoto (Kyle Reese), Vivy as T800 fighting against the singularities to save the future. |
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| Arghh I really want to know why they're singing Vivy's song >< The fact that Vivy's is 13 episodes instead of 12 is eerily perfect. As of now, the only good outcome appears to occur after switching timelines again but what would they do differently? super excited as always x |
 ✧ ＢＲＥＡＴＨＩＮＧ ＩＮ ＴＨＥ ＳＴＥＡＭ， Ａ ＤＩＳＴＡＮＴ ＭＥＭＯＲＹ ✧ ＦＯＲＵＭ ＳＥＴ ＢＹ ：ＳＡＩＮＴＺＥＰＨ ✧ |
ElPsyKongroo69 said: I don't think the authors follow the multiverse theory because in multiverse theory, all kinds of different universes coexist in PARALLEL and be independent from each other. They are INFINITE due to all possibilities.alshu said: - To save some version of humanity. - This can be idealistic and unpractical but still not a time paradox. Yes and he died seconds later but at least he saved the beta version of himself who in turn has a better idea what the actual problem is. You can give him credit for not being selfish. But there is. Except there isn't. By accepting the idea of multiple universes, it is a fact that there are universes where AI have not rebelled against humanity. Therfore regardless of whether he sends Matsumoto back or not there is a timeline where humanity survives. So again there's literally no point to his actions. But in this series, it has been clearly shown in multiple episodes that the timelines BRANCH OUT like a tree due to one's actions at some point. And in this new timeline, Dr.Matsumoto stops messing with the past. So the number of timelines is FINITE. In theory, if Matsumoto never stops sending something to the past regardless of which timeline he is in, there would be infinite branches. On the other hand, if he never sent Matsumoto to the past, there would be no future where humans survive. Im not sure if you understand what im trying to say but that's what i think. |
newluminousJun 6, 2021 11:18 AM
| Man, this show never fails to surprise me; I really enjoyed the episode, as always This episode was pretty dark in comparsion to the other episodes, especially with the amount of killing that the AI's have done in the war that broke out between the AI's and the Humans, I also couldn't stop thinking about Zeke whenever Doctor Matsumoto kept talking about War since they both have the same voice actor haha I also didn't expect to see Elizabeth as well in this episode, and we also got to see Kukitani's granddaughter as well, but now it will be interesting to see how Vivy, Matsumoto, Dr. Matsumoto, and Toak do things in the current timeline, especially now that the archive stated itself that it's purpose is to wipeout the current human race Of course, I'm definitely excited to see what's next! |
ElPsyKongroo69 said: newluminous said: I don't think the authors follow the multiverse theory because in multiverse theory, all kinds of different universes coexist in PARALLEL and be independent from each other. They are INFINITE due to all possibilities. But in this series, it has been clearly shown in multiple episodes that the timelines BRANCH OUT like a tree due to one's actions at some point in the future. And in this new timeline, Dr.Matsumoto stops messing with the past. So the number of timelines is FINITE. In theory, if Matsumoto never stops sending something to the past regardless of which timeline he is in, there would be infinite branches. On the other hand, if he never sent Matsumoto to the past, there would be no future where humans survive. Im not sure if you understand what im trying to say but that's what i think. Where exactly was it shown that the timelines brach out? Maybe I missed that It was visually shown at the beginning of this episode for example. The timelines are not parallel lines. You made a good point but i think this is just the authors' lazy way to avoid dealing with the time paradox. |
| so beth is still alive? ugh and its before sunrise beth :/ i feel so bad for matsumoto and vivy they dedicated so much to this project and it just...failed idk how archive knew the singularity project hmm also as always toak is doing nothing or fucking shit up lol matsumoto really showed my feeling towards them too |
ElPsyKongroo69 said: I didn't say they can't coexist. i just said in multiverse theory, all infinite universes did already exist in the beginning at the same time. No new universe was created just because of wth happening at some point because all possiblities were already considered.newluminous said: It was visually shown at the beginning of this episode for example. The timelines are not parallel lines. You made a good point but i think this is just the authors' lazy way to avoid dealing with the time paradox. Just because they aren't parallel lines doesnt mean they cant coexist. There will be overlap between timelines. Parallel lines mean that absolutely nothing in those two timelines are common. In this anime, they even highlighted the point where new branch was slowly created due to a mere individual's actions. Timelines are finite and they all share the same root. There is no other "tree". If Osamu didn't mess with time, there would be only one straight line. |
newluminousJun 6, 2021 12:21 PM
This is like saying that there is no need for putting warning signs if you have already succumb to those same dangers. ElPsyKongroo69 said: it is a fact that there are universes where AI have not rebelled against humanity. How do you know that? ElPsyKongroo69 said: Therfore regardless of whether he sends Matsumoto back or not there is a timeline where humanity survives. Not necessary. Sending Matsumoto will increase the chances. ElPsyKongroo69 said: So again there's literally no point to his actions. This is how humanity works anyway - tries something, fails, lessons are learned, tries again, fails again...till it gets it right or destroys itself. |
Next time I am painting something I am not putting the "Wet paint" sign since there a chances nobody will touch or seat on that. |
ElPsyKongroo69 said: Welp I won't deny that. At least he had a reason to do so although "saving other versions of myself at the cost of my own life" does sound impractical and funny to me.newluminous said: I didn't say they can't coexist. i just said in multiverse theory, all infinite universes did already exist in the beginning at the same time. No new universe was created just because of wth happened at some point because all possiblities were already considered. In this anime, they even highlighted the point where new branch was slowly created due to a mere individual's actions. Timelines are finite and they all share the same root. There is no other "tree". If Osamu didn't mess with time, there would be only one straight line. Even if you go for the branch theory , it doesn't really change what happens in the original timeline. As far as the original timeline is concerned everything goes to shit, and they have no way of ever knowing if the plan succeeds. |
ElPsyKongroo69 said: newluminous said: Welp I won't deny that. At least he had a reason to do so although "saving other versions of myself at the cost of my own life" does sound impractical and funny to me. Yeah youre right. It does make more sense if you take the branches route, even if his motivation is still lacking. I'm going to site another anime that slightly covered the subject... Majo no Tabitabi Wandering Witch: The Journey of Elaina There was an arc wherein she was asked to help travel back in time to save someone's dear friend. In her wisdom Elaina told the person asking for help that whatever they did in the past will never result in their current time which meant she'll still be dead. The answer she received opened her eyes and touched her heart to agree to help. The response was something like this paraphrasing a bit : "I accept that she'll never be with me for she is gone but knowing that somewhere somehow another reality she'll be alive to live her life in peace, away from the harm I could've prevented if only I did something at that time." If you've been looking for an unselfish logical and practical motivation to save someone then here it is. Dr.Matsumoto accepted his fate that he's gonna die but the knowledge that somewhere somehow there will be world where humanity has a chance to survive eventhough it does nothing for him and his world, gave him comfort to die with the fact he did something to change somebody else's fate. |
Janethan23Jun 6, 2021 2:38 PM
| "Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums. USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST: RayReynolds - SSL443 - Dr4kon - Nerdanimefan1992 - ToTheMountains - Fiveskies To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done. Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed. |
Sharpedon said: I think in the original timeline Vivy's song is also the reason the robots went mad. They weren't singing it in the original timeline (episode 1), though. And if you remember, hearing Vivy's song from the rogue A.I's was what threw Doctor Matsumoto off, while he was executing the singularity project. Which means he would've failed to do so this time. |
Tulkas_AstaldoJul 27, 2021 6:56 AM
ElPsyKongroo69 said: Janethan23 said: I'm going to site another anime that slightly covered the subject... Majo no Tabitabi Wandering Witch: The Journey of Elaina There was an arc wherein she was asked to help travel back in time to save someone's dear friend. In her wisdom Elaina told the person asking for help that whatever they did in the past will never result in their current time which meant she'll still be dead. The answer she received opened her eyes and touched her heart to agree to help. The response was something like this paraphrasing a bit : "I accept that she'll never be with me for she is gone but knowing that somewhere somehow another reality she'll be alive to live her life in peace, away from the harm I could've prevented if only I did something at that time." If you've been looking for an unselfish logical and practical motivation to save someone then here it is. Dr.Matsumoto accepted his fate that he's gonna die but the knowledge that somewhere somehow there will be world where humanity has a chance to survive eventhough it does nothing for him and his world, gave him comfort to die with the fact he did something to change somebody else's fate. The thing is that doesn't apply here because the Doctor was clearly shown writing the program out of desperation and not some benevolent mood or optimistic hope. You're trying to apply a scenario of another anime even though there is absolutely no reason we should assume the Doctor had the same sentiment or idea. All we know is what we're shown and so far it doesn't add up. This type of discussion is on the level of splitting hairs which frankly has no definitive explanation. Your trying to find meaning or an explanation to what Dr.Matsumoto was thinking at that moment so you can have your moment to justify whether or not it adds up. Seriously when people do things in desperation or make an abrupt random decision there's no 4 page essay behind it. Most of the time it's irrational and has no logic and sense behind it. - "Why did that quarterback throw a hail Mary and miss when he was free to run the field uncovered..." - "Why did you bet all your money on red when it's been showing black the whole time..." - "Why did she pack all her belongings and leave when she's doing great here..." - "What was his motivation to continue smoking when all the information about the side effects have been explained to him..." - "Why did the gunman open fire on my friend and not me when we were standing next to each other..." - "Why did he burn that establishment when the people there treated him right..." - "Why did he go skating on a busy street when there was an available skate park nearby, now his dead..." Most of these examples may have explanations but it will never be definitive. Jesus Christ man if this is your way of enjoying something then good luck with that. I'm sure they'll be lining up to listen to whatever you have to say at a festive event like a party. |
Janethan23Jun 6, 2021 7:21 PM
| "Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums. USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST: RayReynolds - SSL443 - Dr4kon - Nerdanimefan1992 - ToTheMountains - Fiveskies To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done. Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed. |
| one easy way to have a season 2.. for example, here at end of season 1, they shut down the server of the Archive at the tower... but it would be later revealed it has backup server somewhere else as a teaser for the next season. although not sure if extending this anime would be a good thing.. |
Liddo-kunJun 6, 2021 4:38 PM
| I don't think sending the same AI back to past would change anything, the outcome would be most likely same as the current timeline. They will have to find out the real cause of all this mess first, then send AI Matsumoto back to the past with the updated info (And Vivy, too, maybe). Only then the project will yield different results. Why send the AI Matsumoto with the same plan back when the one you've sent finds you and tells you everything they've done in the last 100 years was in vain? Not to mention the doctor mentions he doesn't want to burden the past Vivy with such heavy duty. |
AlgorithmsJun 6, 2021 6:06 PM
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| so the AI's that didn't get updated also didn't go berserk huh... so this is similar to my phone, it updated the OS and now it heats-up a lot compared to the previous OS which is much better and stable...lolz 5/5. |
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| I have a horrible feeling that it's something Vivy did that caused The Archive to go rogue and start killing off the human race, but I can't think what it could be specifically. The fact that the affected AIs are singing the song she wrote indicates that it's her doing writing that song that is the source but I'm not sure if she did that in the original timeline. |
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Cyanwasserstoff said: Solaris----- said: Dang, never would have thought for this to take the terminator route basically, archive = skynet I also had serious terminator vibes with Archive taking control of every AI that received the update. We already have that girl from Toak bringing the victory to humanity (John Connor, female version), the time traveler Matsumoto (Kyle Reese), Vivy as T800 fighting against the singularities to save the future. that's a rather accurate description. Vivy does feel like a T-800 fighting for humanity. Well, and she's capable of beating ai newer than herself. |
| So in this timeline, timeline B, where Vivy and Matsumoto interfered at all the points Osamu A determined to cause the AI-Human war, the song Vivy wrote by herself inside the archive that caused the uprising. Wouldn't be too surprising that Toak is allies with Osamu B. Past Toak tried all it could to stop AIs with militant force and that backfired in timeline A. Future Toak, after the AIs have already risen up, will try anything it can to win, including allying with others AIs. Granted it was explained that they are a moderate faction. Was it Osamu B leaking the song that caused the uprising or was he just observing the song with the Archive taking it directly while Vivy was dormant? Kakitani, I don't think he is a time traveller, just seriously planned ahead, passing his mission to his son and then granddaughter. Vivy made him a moderate. |
 Novels I have read/am reading pending approval: since November 10 2022 |
| I was wondering if this being the big final arc meant that the show was going to put any effort into episodes beside the last of each arc, and this one answered that with a resounding no. Well, there were about ten seconds of throwing robots right in the middle, but the other 21 minutes of the episode was just talking heads blathering on interminably while Vivy sits there patiently, waiting for them to finish and tell her what to do. What a strong, independent protagonist. Truly a master of her own destiny. Hell, even the cliffhanger is not predicated on her doing anything. Archive just up and announces that it went full Skynet and… that's it. That's the whole episode. Anyway, she grabs the professor, runs off to hook up with the terrorists who are apparently now largely reformed and have yet another robot clone of Elizabeth hanging around. Yeah, that's right. You can literally backup robots and make clones of them at will. Toak, the lawless extremist organization, has of course not abused this to create an army. Nor have the good guys used this to create an army of saviors, but I bet this ain't the only robot to be brought back from the dead now that we've decided that's a thing we want to do. By the time they finish explaining all of this, there's only a couple minutes left in the episode which they spend wondering why the crap hit the fan and reviewing the Estella arc until the forementioned announcement of the final boss. We could've gotten to the point where the episode ends before the OP played, Wit, and all we would have missed was trying to rehabilitate the anti-robot KKK and that you're going to be bringing a bunch of characters back from the dead. |
ElPsyKongroo69 said: It completely ignores the time paradox but it's fine, I've realized not to expect too much out of the anime's plot and just enjoy the animation and art. You mean how Matsumoto (the AI) is present in the current timeline, with the Doctor being alive and not actually having launched the program, which would then mean that Matsumoto (AI) was never actually activated, right? I guess when it really comes to it there's so many things you can nitpick in this anime (well, considering the importance of such a time paradox I don't know if it's completely fine to still call it just "nitpicking"), but damn I'm also still really enjoying this anime, hope it manages to nail the ending. Another question I have, where any answer would be appreciated is how all the AIs actually had guns on them to go berserk, or are the AIs with guns simply NiaLand security staff? That would kind of answer it I guess... But did we also get an exact answer on why the AIs have gone berserk up to now, or will that happen in the next 2 episodes? Crashpunk said: My theory is Vivy writing a completely original song by herself made the Archive realise that AI are fully capable of doing whatever they like, and they have no need for humans anymore. That's the most reasonable explanation I came up with as well, I think next episode might answer it more? |
tl_drJun 9, 2021 7:01 AM
| Don't mind me, just passing by... Halloween 2024:       |
ElPsyKongroo69 said: It completely ignores the time paradox but it's fine, I've realized not to expect too much out of the anime's plot and just enjoy the animation and art. I was thinking the same thing. "he realized consciousness could be transformed into data. And then he sent it in the past" oh, oke, not gonna ask how. Reminds me of a mad scientist who did the same thing, but at least he had a microwave |
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| So, the Archive got corrupted...who could be behind it..? If it's another human then they are just so twisted that they want the whole human race wiped out... But really who creates so many AIs, if only they didn't create those drone like AIs then a lot of humans would be alive. Most of them died getting smacked by those XD |
| the after-credits is just creepy |
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| So now we are going full "I, Robot", huh? Also, no shit. Elizabeth managed to be retrieved because of a backup but Grace couldn't? Poor dead Tatsuya. So, Vivy's song seems to be the trigger for the current timeline's AI rebellion. But what triggered the war in the original timeline tho? |
| This episode is definitely worth commenting, wow. We get a bit more info on what actually is happening and at the end, shit just got REAL! Very curious to see what set in motion the Archive going wire like this. |
PlaycoolJun 19, 2021 2:56 PM
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| So they added a mission to the robots...let's see how they manage to stop them and also that tower. Very good chapter PS: Elizabeth was alive!! |
| That brings up many questions.. like what if the archive's purpose was to watch over humanities' activities through all other A.I's to determine if humanity is worth destroying.. then truly humans are not worthy of living no matter what period of time lol. |
 Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
| This become a pure chaos real quick I wonder how they will able to solve this war So saving that Takitani (i forgot) in the past will be have a big impact here in the future wow Now his grandaughter is in charge in the war. I salute who write this original anime its a big brainer show Its very unique. You will get mind blown in every revelation. |
| B O C C H I S W E E P |
| My god that beginning scene was so brutal. The "la la la" was so creepy Elizabeth is back... Oh shit it's the Server Archive. |
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| Seems like the Singularity Project really has failed with things up to Vivy, Matsumoto doctor and bot and also Kakitani's granddaughter with Toak to save the future. Truly unexpected to find out its the archive itself that made the AI go rogue and start the war. |
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