mihyon said: An example would be in Darling of the Franxx. Like many of the audience, they wanted him to pilot the Franxx with 002, but instead he let someone else. Yes, there are arguments on why he chose this route, but ultimately, the audience felt disappointed that he was too beta to contest his spot with her. That example is heavily flawed. I am not gonna defend Darling in the FranXX here but that gave me a good laugh in the episode discussion thread. It just shows that when people find flaw in an anime, they tend to keep on finding flaws in them without any arguments to justify those flaws. That anime has its sheer number of flaws and I pointed out in the episode discussion threads but when that same anime is called a harem anime and cucked, you really need to take a deep breath and wonder if the fans are just ignorant of these terms or just want to hate on something for the sake of hating. Anyways, coming back to the original post, I stick to the rule of identifying characters as Alpha or Beta when required. Those are derogatory terms that identifies piss-poor characters in anime and I find no reason why I shouldn't identify them as such. Great characters have flaws in them. Be it Sakata Gintoki, Hikigaya Hachiman, Kamina, Araragi Koyomi, Okazaki Tomoya etc. But their flaws are overshadowed because of their qualities in them that draw the characters within the story toward them. The biggest difference between great characters that can be associated with identifiers such as Alpha, Beta, White Knight but ARE NOT associated as much and cheap characters that ARE often associated with such identifiers is the way they pull the surrounding characters (both males and females) toward them. Even for an Alpha or Beta character, they need to show reasons as to why the surrounding characters are pulled towards them which is the case for majority of the isekai or harem anime that fail to show. For example, whenever I say Kirito is a f*cking awful Alpha MC, I mean it. And I am not gonna try justifying that because to me he really is an awful Alpha. It's impossible to reason why the other characters surrounding him are being drawn to him. |
shanimebibFeb 1, 2018 5:14 PM
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mihyon said: no avatar, nothing added tonhis lists and not a lot of posts... I wouildnt take it too seriouslyJokerJoestar said: After reading the discussion thread for episode 3 I realized that the average anime fan knows fuck anything about character or story comprehension or analysis. I mean you have to have social or mental problems to interpret the show in a way that makes someone make a post like THIS, along with complaints about the protagonist not wanting to do a certain action WHEN HE CLEARLY AND EXPLICITLY WAS TRYING TO ACTUALLY DO THAT THING. I'll start caring what the audience thinks when they learn the bare minimum of reading comprehension. So no, I'm not gonna take a lot of complaints about certain characters as evidence that there is a problem in the industry and not the viewers themselves, unless they actually show they know what they're talking about, and the general seasonal anime audience has shown to me that they probably don't. I'm not saying that there aren't bland and badly written MCs like that, but I doubt it is as big of a problem as certain people like to say. I just read the post you sent and it's kinda cringe. Well I do agree that some anime fans take it too far, especially in this case. But, regular people don't watch anime or shows to analysis the deeper meanings. If I dislike what the MC did, I disliked it. It ruined my expectation of what I saw in that character, etc. In the end, it shouldn't be taken in such a a blown up expectation. |
| It'll stop eventually. Dumbass buzzwords come and go. Give it, like, 5 years. |
mihyon said: JokerJoestar said: After reading the discussion thread for episode 3 I realized that the average anime fan knows fuck anything about character or story comprehension or analysis. I mean you have to have social or mental problems to interpret the show in a way that makes someone make a post like THIS, along with complaints about the protagonist not wanting to do a certain action WHEN HE CLEARLY AND EXPLICITLY WAS TRYING TO ACTUALLY DO THAT THING. I'll start caring what the audience thinks when they learn the bare minimum of reading comprehension. So no, I'm not gonna take a lot of complaints about certain characters as evidence that there is a problem in the industry and not the viewers themselves, unless they actually show they know what they're talking about, and the general seasonal anime audience has shown to me that they probably don't. I'm not saying that there aren't bland and badly written MCs like that, but I doubt it is as big of a problem as certain people like to say. I just read the post you sent and it's kinda cringe. Well I do agree that some anime fans take it too far, especially in this case. But, regular people don't watch anime or shows to analysis the deeper meanings. If I dislike what the MC did, I disliked it. It ruined my expectation of what I saw in that character, etc. In the end, it shouldn't be taken in such a a blown up expectation. Regular people apparently can't analyze the surface meaning either. |
| Agree, What i wanted just a relatable/unique character that is different an actually felt human being. |
| I always like the MC to be polite and kind. like this guy or this guy Chastity and self-restraint are some of the most precious virtue traits and I don't know why people are complaining when characters are displaying them. (Actually not only in anime, there are people talking like it's a stain for male to save their virginity in real life too, which I found to be ridiculous.) |
JokerJoestar said: Can we stop with this whole "alpha", "beta", "pussy", "white knight" MC BS? hmm, let's just make this more general. JokerJoestar said: Can we stop with this whole "alpha", "beta", "pussy", "white knight" BS? There we go. That's more like it. JokerJoestar said: Some people just really like to be judgemental.Like seriously. what does being a beta or alpha or whatever have to do with being a good MC? Why isn't the MC allowed to have personal weaknesses without someone calling him a "pussy" for it (which is a pretty sexist term if you ask me). So maybe some main characters have insecurities interacting with girls, why is that a bad thing? Are you upset he doesn't want to confess his love or have sex with the female character you like as soon as possible? Well too bad, but the MC isn't You, he doesn't have to act the way you want him to be. You blame the MC for being "dense" and not noticing the feelings of girls, while saying nothing about girls who keep their feelings hidden for the entire show. As for the generic "Why would any girl like such a loser/beta" criticism. well, what's wrong with liking him? Maybe she likes him because he seems like good person, they like a guy who's shy or looks normal? Who are you say that their reasons are stupid simply because he's not a stereotypical alpha male? Me personally, All I wish for is for the protagonist to be a good person who respects personal boundaries and treats people with love and respect, I dislike bad people and perverted type of characters who do whatever they please with women without caring about their privacy and asking consent, even if the have more "personality" (whatever the fuck that means) than your average shy romance protagonist. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
JokerJoestar said: The average "alpha" protagonist isn't more original than the average "beta" either. I don't want to bother reading the whole thread because all of the responses are totally as I expected but this statement is very true and sums it up. People love "alpha" protagonists more but they're as meh as "beta" protagonists. |
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| It's called a matter of preference, guys. Stop judging each other over it. |
  xx0:44 βπββββββββββββββ 04:44x β xxxxxxxxx ββ xxxxxxxxx βΊxxxx |
Lunafleurette said: It's called a matter of preference, guys. Stop judging each other over it. sounds like something an "alpha", "beta", "pussy", "white knight" MC would say... |
  πππ'π π³π΄ππ΄π²ππΈπ
π΄ πππππππ π³π΄ππ΄π²ππΈπ
π΄ ππππ ! π π πππ πππππ πππ ππ’πππ πππππππ ! |
DildoShwaggins said: Lunafleurette said: It's called a matter of preference, guys. Stop judging each other over it. sounds like something an "alpha", "beta", "pussy", "white knight" MC would say... I can be whatever you want me to be. c; But I'm happy just being a girl who has an opinion. |
xx0:44 βπββββββββββββββ 04:44x β xxxxxxxxx ββ xxxxxxxxx βΊxxxx |
Lunafleurette said: DildoShwaggins said: sounds like something an "alpha", "beta", "pussy", "white knight" MC would say... I can be whatever you want me to be. c; But I'm happy just being a girl who has an opinion. the fuck's an "opinion" sounds hella gay |
| πππ'π π³π΄ππ΄π²ππΈπ
π΄ πππππππ π³π΄ππ΄π²ππΈπ
π΄ ππππ ! π π πππ πππππ πππ ππ’πππ πππππππ ! |
| Gotta agree tbh. Some people expects Main characters to be "the strongest" or "the bravest" Not every anime has the MC as the strongest or bravest and honestly it doesn't really bother or matter to me. I kinda like that the MC isn't always in the spotlight. HXH is a perfect example of it. |
on DrQuantum said: My god don't even get me started on Goku. His character is ok but even in DBZ he wasn't always the strongest nor was he the one always defeating enemies. The Cell saga is a awesome example and was actually my favorite arc in the series.Agreed. I don't want a MC to be useless, but having normal fears and weaknesses doesn't make them a "beta/cuck." For example, what kind of person wouldn't cry, if their best friend or relative was killed in front of them? I'll take a "shy and nerdy" Midoriya over a "badass" like Goku any day. One is a relateable character, with limitations, who feels normal human emotions. The other overcomes any obstacle through sheer rage and testosterone. |
Kuraokani said: Last but definitely not least, the White Knight. It's boring - period. There's not a single "good" anime with a truly "White Knight" protagonist. It dosent exist. Prove me wrong. Read Utsuro no Hako to Zero no Maria. Kuraokani said: Take RyΕ«ji Takasu from Toradora for example. Sure, he was dense, but that didn't make him unbearable by itself. The problem was how dense he was. It's one thing to not notice subtle hints when talking to a girl. It's a whole other thing to not notice when a girl is literally throwing herself at you (multiple girls to be precise). That's when he's stupidity starts to effect my opinion on him and the show as a whole. I haven't got any solemn arguments, but, you know, Ryuji was thinking romantically only about Minorin for the first times, and because of that he couldn't remark Taiga's feelings; Minori's feelings itself was complicated and even she couldn't tell what she is heading to and what she is genuenly want, always trying to do her best, so I think it's not fair to blame Takasu for his density in this part. Taiga, in her turn, wasn't honest with herself about her feelings to Takasu for too long, and when she became, she already was involved into the problem of hurting her precious friend, who, as she was aware, was in love to the same man. To put it shortly, in the beginning it was hard to recognize any romantical feelings (maybe there wasn't even any of it), and in the end of story whole situation was too comlicated, so it's hard to blame Takasu for not recognizing this feelings as something obvious, not to mention that he had his own complicated feelings. |
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| I agree with what you said. Eventhough not fully. When it comes to guys being dense, as long as it's done right and not dragged for too long. I do tend to be annoyed a bit if a guy is TOO nice or TOO perfect. As long as the character is done right to the point that I will like him. But to be honest, I don't like harem MCs. They tend to be a bit TOO dense. I don't care if majority/some of the fandom hate the guy, as long as he has traits that I like, then I will like him. (Yes, I like Emiya Shirou from the Fate series. ESPECIALLY Fate Shirou.) JokerJoestar said: Me personally, All I wish for is for the protagonist to be a good person who respects personal boundaries and treats people with love and respect, I dislike bad people and perverted type of characters who do whatever they please with women without caring about their privacy and asking consent, even if the have more "personality" (whatever the fuck that means) than your average shy romance protagonist. YES. I dislike/hate guys like that. |
Mikura39Feb 3, 2018 7:28 AM
 Help, I'm hooked into the Fate series (not all) and am obsessed with Shirou x Saber! Also, forever hoping for a ufotable remake of the Fate route! |
DrQuantum said: It feels like Goku was smarter too idk what happened but I like Vegeta now more. If only they'd give him more of a push...OtakuIriamu said: My god don't even get me started on Goku. His character is ok but even in DBZ he wasn't always the strongest nor was he the one always defeating enemies. The Cell saga is a awesome example and was actually my favorite arc in the series. Right? That's why I prefer the original Goku from DB. He actually needed to train, and improve his technique to get stronger. |
Roguedere said: All these types of MCs are way overused in almost every anime. I have to agree to you because "every anime nowadays are either harem or fanservice porn that attracts viewers with no life" SOURCE: MALers |
| I also think it needs to stop. People need to see the character's progression as a whole, then judge. |
  Crying doesn't mean you're weak. Enduring doesn't mean you're strong. |
| "Can we stop with this whole "alpha", "beta", "pussy", "white knight" MC BS?" Yes, please. |
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| I feel like there are (at least) two sides to this issue. On one hand you have people complaining about flaws like shyness and insecurity for the wrong reasons etc. because of their own insecurities or because they feel like these are not acceptable traits for a person to have. On the other hand, it is absolutely true that many of these patterns (like the eternal flirting romance formula) are very much overused and I don't think you can blame someone for being tired of them. You can tell them to go away and watch something they're not tired of without engaging with their concerns, sure, but at that point you're just as toxic in my opinion. So in short, I agree, these adjectives are very much buzzwords that people need to stop overusing but at the same time I think in some cases the frustrations that cause people to use the words are also real. |
TheFireNinja said: A lot of guys want to be the "alpha." But a lot of them are probably "betas" in real life. I think it's just a matter of them projecting and not liking how they're portrayed in anime. Not all guys are going to start off getting girls with ease. And these characters are usually teens. So, you can't really expect most teenage boys to have confidence in talking to and attracting women. And I believe the reason why shy guys tend to be the most popular harem and romance MCs is because they're viewed as more approachable and you can get more character development out of them than a guy who is assertive with their feelings from the start. Most people tend to look at the "alpha" men as d-bags and players. You know, it's just kind of insulting that most men are either villains or total losers in fiction, both in anime and western media, though the reasoning is different. And like you don't need to literally be the Gigachad to find a harem protagonist really pathetic. Also assuming they'll get character development is funny. |
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TheFireNinja said: Certainly I can agree that continuing to engage with the content after it is clear that it is not your cup of tea is asinine , the question for me is not so much that X must change to to Y but moreso that X should exist alongside Y. For me if there is a problem here at all that is it, derivative and repetitive presentation of ideas. In any case, I hope I made it clear I don't wish to defend the asshats that start calling the MC's names and can't sleep at night knowing someone is enjoying something they don't, just pointing out that one shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, there are what I would call legitimate frustrations here as well that are perhaps expressed in a childish and unproductive way but what are ya gonna do that's the internet for ya.Anjuro said: I mean, you're entitled to feel whatever way you want to feel about people who don't want to hear people's complaining about certain things. But nevertheless, it just seems like madness the fact that these people will frequently engage with these shows that they know they have problems with and want to complain to the community as if we have the power to change things in the shows they watch to best suit their frustrations. We aren't the Japanese animation/ manga industry. Just viewers. And I'm not even saying this as someone who loves these elements in harems and romances. But people have to take some level of accountability in choosing to continue watching these shows in hopes of finding something unique. Because just like with shows outside of anime, you're going to run into shows with similar concepts. There's no guarantee of anything being 100% original.I feel like there are (at least) two sides to this issue. On one hand you have people complaining about flaws like shyness and insecurity for the wrong reasons etc. because of their own insecurities or because they feel like these are not acceptable traits for a person to have. On the other hand, it is absolutely true that many of these patterns (like the eternal flirting romance formula) are very much overused and I don't think you can blame someone for being tired of them. You can tell them to go away and watch something they're not tired of without engaging with their concerns, sure, but at that point you're just as toxic in my opinion. So in short, I agree, these adjectives are very much buzzwords that people need to stop overusing but at the same time I think in some cases the frustrations that cause people to use the words are also real. Ultimately I don't think its fair to say that people should not be allowed to talk about their frustrations, sure you can't do anything about it now but with enough consensus on the matter things may change, take japanese voice acting for example, don't quote me on this but I'm pretty sure a lot of localized games didn't use to include a japanese voice option but nowadays a lot of them do cause there is a demand for it. |
| "white knight"? I don't think I have seen many of these (thankfully), or do people consider it a synonym of "simp"? |
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Punkero said: I don't think people were using the word simp back in 2017."white knight"? I don't think I have seen many of these (thankfully), or do people consider it a synonym of "simp"? |
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| Don't pay attention to those voices, op. I agree with you mostly. |
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TheFireNinja said: They don't need to be perfect human beings, but they could be like not the polar opposite. JaniSIr said: I'm not saying you have to be a gigachad to not like them. But for me personally, I don't really feel any attachment to these type of characters to be bothered by them. I think how sad their social and relationship lives are portrayed can be exaggerated to where it's hard for most people to relate to them. Not to say that there may not possibly be a few. But I care more about the story. Which is the relationship development between the MCs and their love interests. And ultimately, it's up to you or whoever to decide whether or not these characters get development. All I'm just saying is that if these characters had the confidence to talk to and pair up with these girls from the beginning, then it would take away the whole journey of them developing feelings for one another. And we all know how most romances progress (given the perfect conditions) to not be bothered with the details of what happens to them once they get together.You know, it's just kind of insulting that most men are either villains or total losers in fiction, both in anime and western media, though the reasoning is different. And like you don't need to literally be the Gigachad to find a harem protagonist really pathetic. Also assuming they'll get character development is funny. |
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| Personally I think a average protagonist is boring because he would be a copy and paste type of a already existing character. The term nice guys finish last is probably true I think so the cool guy would be the one that has a different personality and that would make him a Alpha guy. Overall I agree with using the terms beta or alpha to remember a character in a show due to I think it’s a good reason |
| Not even the US army can stop this whole "alpha", "beta", "pussy", "white knight" MC BS |
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| These are just short labels to describe their overall personality, no need to get worked up by that. |
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
| Screw Alpha and Beta, where is my Omega!? |
 "Don't let your memes be dreams."- Ancient Japanese proverb, probably |
Reply to Gutzdeep42
A big part of the issue for those of us who just cant stand the endless stream of super beta pathetic losers mc's are a few reasons... since the whole OTAKU thing blew up and essentially giving every type of loser (nerd, geek, creeper, outcast, cowards, perma-virgins, life rejects and on and on all types) a sad as fuck united banner and collective to unify under like never before. The result is instead is now that losers back losers of ever kind the world is overflowing with fucking life reject super beta like trash like never before (especially in japan where being a life time virgin is becoming the norm and they have convinced themselves that pretend waifu GF's and humping full size waifu print body pillows instead of a real woman is better they truly are a nation of beta bia losers). This shit has pissed over into anime big time which has pretty much kicking in the ever pathetic ball-less super simps, perma-virgins, blushing bitch soi boi, all kicked up a or well down a few notches all to attempt to adjust to the pathetic trash they are pandering too. Character growth has all but been kicked to the curb its almost non-existent these days... pussy characters who are the biggest insults excuse for a male mc in episode one where the get within 2 ft of a chick and see so much as side boob flip out like some candy ass panzy and half kills themselves squealing like a lil girl crashing thru traffic or anything else to get away well fast forward two, three, hell four seasons and they are still the same blushing lil bitch indecisive life reject lacking anything resembling balls at the end of whatever season as they were in ep1. Which is why all the viewers keep getting boned after wasting time watching with these cowardly writer open beta bitch skeered to offend the basement dwelling otaku/incel creepers if the wrong waifu is picked. Pathetic... those of us that arent total life failures have good reason to bitch and complain at the state of shit and as for categorizing it the beta/alpha etc is the most simply way to get the point across. The only ppl who jump in to defend the shit are the beta bitch types upset for ppl calling them out.
| @Gutzdeep42 Bruh. Do you know what a paragraph is? |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
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