Do you dislike/distrust Muslims?

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Mar 2008

47514

k0k0 said:

traed said:
I certainly am disgusted by extremist muslims and they make up a large percentage of Muslims.

Apologies but.. what? How do you get those stats?

From actual statistics and personal experience. I think you are confused what I mean by extremist. I'm equating it with fundamentalism to make it equal to how Christians are judged as "extreme". So Im not allowing Muslims to have a more extreme baseline for judgement. When I say a large percentage it is not necessarily the majority. Anything around 20% (1 in 5) is a large number), even 10% is lot if you have a large population you're speaking of because it's still millions of people.

"42% of Turkish people believe Muslims are the 'real victims' of Charlie Hebdo attack"
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/metropoll-42-turkish-public-believe-muslims-are-real-victims-charlie-hebdo-attack-1486355

"25% of Muslim-Americans say that violence against Americans in the United States is justified as part of the "global Jihad"
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

I could keep listing things but it would take hours.

Mar 10, 2016 12:47 PM

#104

Rarusu_

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Oct 2014

5841

I don't like or trust anyone before I see a reason to do so.

Mar 10, 2016 12:51 PM

#105

Fuchsia

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Jul 2013

7208

I don't particularly like them because they're Muslim, but i don't particularly dislike them because they're Muslim.

╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭

Mar 10, 2016 1:44 PM

#106

k0k0

Offline

Aug 2009

3108

Masked_Mantis said:

k0k0 said:

Masked_Mantis said:

k0k0 said:

Ah, it's the Asiya Noreen case. Reigned by a Judge of Sheikhpura, which happens to be among the more illiterate parts of the country, and taken to the Court of Lahore, Punjab, the province where much of the poverty-stricken and uneducated religious groups reside.
The Supreme Court has suspended the case, and two prominent political muslim figures had fought for Asiya's rights (and paid with their lives for it), and huge movements and outcries were forged for her protection by the educated minority of the country.

So, you see, while I cannot say that you cannot pin the blame on Islam, I can definitely say that you can pin the blame on illiteracy. Pakistan, as one country, should not be seen justifying this act. God knows how many riots broke out between the classes of Muslims which reside in it. If there is a side which caters to extremism, there is a side that exists which opposes it.

Just thought I'd clarify the details for you, since I was among the protestants myself and I do not consider the literate population of Pakistan to fall under the category of extremist muslims.

By suspended doesn't that mean it's just on hold? That's what I've read from all the articles. They're reviewing her case that's all.

As for whether it's to do with an educated view of Islam or not that's still a rational fear. In the west nothing like this has happened, but we feel our freedom slipping away with how corrupt the police are in covering up Muslim scandals. Muslims in the west haven't experienced a case like Asiya's but they definitely still have the same views as the illiterate Muslims in Pakistan. We have Muslims in the government who say you shouldn't be able to criticise Islam, then people are shocked when Muslims protest demanding blasphemy laws. People in the west are scared of how politically correct their leaders are, and of course of islamists. They can't be called islamaphobic because even Hindus and Sikhs fear Islamic issues.

When Muslims in other countries are encouraging Muslims in the west to kill people for drawing cartoons then how are they really any different from the illiterate Pakistani Muslims you mentioned? They hold the exact same views in an increasingly insecure country.

It is on hold. There's an appeal just this month, and I'm pretty sure she'll make it and be taken under protection after all the effort the human rights groups here have put in. There's no guarantee, but her situation has been flowing in hopeful waters.

'Educated view of Islam' isn't really an accurate phrase to use, in my opinion. You see, as a Muslim who's lived in both developed and developing countries (including Pakistan), there's a very prominent pattern I've noticed: extremism is highly linked with illiteracy. The West has probably not seen much radical raids owing to its advantageous progression in the global village. It is, in the bigger picture, not about Muslims against Non-Muslims. Trust me when I say that the obscene number of Muslims attacked by Muslims themselves is more alarming. This is a strong indicator of how extremism isn't employed solely against a differing ideology, rather, it blurs all boundaries and simply targets anything that does not condone the extremist individual/party's beliefs, even if the religion they shared was the same.

I cannot speak on behalf of all the Muslims in the West. I know that there are those who have refused to Westernize themselves while demanding a place within your communities, but I also know that there's a good portion that fits in readily and accepts the norms and culture of the local residents. Having views and acting on said views are two very different things; you cannot demand a person to remove their preferences (regardless of whether they stem from religious notions or personal ones), but you can definitely demand for them to apply tolerance. This is the difference between radicals and 'normal' Muslims--the former makes no distinction between notion and action.

When you say 'West', I hope you aren't generalizing. I don't think, and I'm sure you'd agree, that the entire of West itself cannot be grouped together to share a view, just like the entire Muslim world (and believe me, Sir, it's massive and diverse) cannot be subjected to similarly.
Therefore, I would politely disagree when you say that Muslims in other countries have encouraged Muslims in the West to kill people for drawing cartoons. This is pure generalization, I assure you, because your news may tell you the gist of reactions, they fail to deliver the other side. Always. Not to mention the fact that Islam in different countries is followed differently (not the religion itself, but the societal leniency and stigmas which prevail) and many of those countries tend to mix their culture with the religion. It is more prudent for you, then, to understand that Muslims of all colours and vibrancy exist--it's just that the bad ones always tend to stick out more and the good ones are pushed behind because, somehow, goodness is always considered overrated.

That's good then. These are the people that truly need and deserve help, it's a shame that there needs to be measures taken to defend people leaving Islam or "blaspheming". That will never be taken in the west without violent opposition. We've already had people killed, death threats issued, terrorists released back in our countries and lost, and people having to go into hiding. Even Muslims that speak out and form charities to try and help Muslim apostates get attacked in the west, I could list so much but it would just get off topic and take up the whole post.

I'd say your second point depends on the country. There are countries where Muslims are a victim of violent Muslims, but then there are also still quite a lot that are under islamic law that Muslims live under fine. That's not good news for apostates and other religions. They're definitely kafir and countries like that that have money are probably using the Quran for their own purposes. "Don't take Jews or Christians as friends". These islamic laws shouldn't exist but they do. I do agree that it blurs all boundaries, and that's why people should be scared of islamists in all countries. It's like communism.

As for your third point that's true, unfortunately. Crossing a border doesn't change someones literal view of Islam. But that's what the west fear, it's our leaders we fear. We actually can't demand tolerance anymore without the left saying "the bibles violent" or "it's not all Muslims". Our leaders tell us when the refugees came that they don't know who is raping women, but it's a fact that it's not Muslims. It's more serious in Islam than any other religion when you know you can't remove their preferences. Even "scholars" in the west promote extreme views and we tolerate it.

When I say west I mean a few western countries yes. Germany, Sweden, UK, Denmark etc. There are some sensible ones.

As for Muslims encouraging others, you had ayatollah Khomeinei who issued the fatwa against Salman Rushdie for writing the satanic verses. You had Junaid Hussain who encouraged the Texas Islamic shooting. You had Geert Wilders film "fitna" cause a fatwa from Australian Muslims, you had Denmark cartoonists killed and the Hebdo attacks, which also caused riots and deaths in other Muslim countries, you can just google any fatwas. This is the only religion you have an issue like this. Giving death threats to people for criticism of Islam isn't normal. And it shouldn't even be an issue of discussion and reasoning with Muslims but it still is. That shows a serious flaw with islam.

I've watched this guy from when he was just in a "racist" group, but he's written a book about what he's went through from the police just through criticising Islam. Now everyone pretty much accepts what he's been saying. I link it to show what he's gone through, and it's related because at about 18:40 he pretty much shows what we've got an issue with. "You can't go to London because we've let 450 isis fighters come back who want you dead" ~ the police.

Believe me when I tell you that all types of violent oppositions have been, and are, taken here in order to protect the rights of the minority. Apostasy may or may not be punishable by death in Islam (depending on the school of Islamic thought you follow), but no such punishment forms the constitution of Pakistani Law. The Supreme Court will have no choice but to release her under protection. And if it fails.. well, that's the day the entire nation definitely will fail.

"Even Muslims that speak out and form charities to try and help Muslim apostates get attacked in the west."
Not only in the West. I think such back lashes, inclusive of charges as strong as assassination, are more common in Muslim countries. So I know where you're coming from, except I desperately want you to realize that it is so much more worse to the preexisting Muslims in their Islamic countries.
Which brings me to the point of how you say some countries operate without any hitches under the Islamic Law: it is because they do not confuse law with theocracy. Saudi Arabia (I've lived there as well) is the only Islamic country to impose Shariah Law and make it synonymous to political law. The reason why its citizens are 'fine' (they're not, really) with the way things are running is because it's a Kingdom and no riots are tolerated and it dishes out sentences without any forms of other consideration. And its best skill: being best friends with America allows it to 'hush up' all barbarism and rebellions that does take place within the country. Much of the Islamic World, not without good reason, considers the Arabian peninsula a pretty huge pain in the arse and think its portrayal of the super religion as false and exaggerated.

"Don't take Jews or Christians as friends".
I come from a background which encourages diversity of beliefs, but I know what you mean by this. However, these are not laws of any Islamic country, it's simply damaging preaching inculcated in children by underexposed, racist and feeble-minded Muslim parents.
It is the same as the many Islamophobes of the West warning their children against making Muslims as friends or, at least, worrying about the quality of such a company among their offspring. This bias is shared equally between our worlds.

Those names of Muslims you mentioned who issued such ridiculous fatwas; an equal number, or perhaps greater, stand up to speak against such fatwas. As I mention intermittently--there is always opposition to such claims and demands. It's a tragedy they're often overshadowed. The media plays its pieces rather cleverly. Both with you and I.

Good man, I never intended to and nor do I still intend to counter you about Islam. You'll find me agreeing with you on some cold, hard facts that you've listed in your posts and which cannot be ignored. There are problems present somewhere which associate themselves with the religion, but they're quite exacerbated and their faithful rebels often cut out. I also know there are many holes in your knowledge and awareness (and in mine) and I can only tell you of that which is going on in the other side of the world. It would probably be hard for you to believe me, and I wouldn't force you to either, that there are many, many Muslims here who want that shredded peace with the West back.

Mar 10, 2016 2:46 PM

#107

International Saimoe League

Offline

Apr 2014

4169

k0k0 said:

Masked_Mantis said:

k0k0 said:

Masked_Mantis said:

k0k0 said:

Ah, it's the Asiya Noreen case. Reigned by a Judge of Sheikhpura, which happens to be among the more illiterate parts of the country, and taken to the Court of Lahore, Punjab, the province where much of the poverty-stricken and uneducated religious groups reside.
The Supreme Court has suspended the case, and two prominent political muslim figures had fought for Asiya's rights (and paid with their lives for it), and huge movements and outcries were forged for her protection by the educated minority of the country.

So, you see, while I cannot say that you cannot pin the blame on Islam, I can definitely say that you can pin the blame on illiteracy. Pakistan, as one country, should not be seen justifying this act. God knows how many riots broke out between the classes of Muslims which reside in it. If there is a side which caters to extremism, there is a side that exists which opposes it.

Just thought I'd clarify the details for you, since I was among the protestants myself and I do not consider the literate population of Pakistan to fall under the category of extremist muslims.

By suspended doesn't that mean it's just on hold? That's what I've read from all the articles. They're reviewing her case that's all.

As for whether it's to do with an educated view of Islam or not that's still a rational fear. In the west nothing like this has happened, but we feel our freedom slipping away with how corrupt the police are in covering up Muslim scandals. Muslims in the west haven't experienced a case like Asiya's but they definitely still have the same views as the illiterate Muslims in Pakistan. We have Muslims in the government who say you shouldn't be able to criticise Islam, then people are shocked when Muslims protest demanding blasphemy laws. People in the west are scared of how politically correct their leaders are, and of course of islamists. They can't be called islamaphobic because even Hindus and Sikhs fear Islamic issues.

When Muslims in other countries are encouraging Muslims in the west to kill people for drawing cartoons then how are they really any different from the illiterate Pakistani Muslims you mentioned? They hold the exact same views in an increasingly insecure country.

It is on hold. There's an appeal just this month, and I'm pretty sure she'll make it and be taken under protection after all the effort the human rights groups here have put in. There's no guarantee, but her situation has been flowing in hopeful waters.

'Educated view of Islam' isn't really an accurate phrase to use, in my opinion. You see, as a Muslim who's lived in both developed and developing countries (including Pakistan), there's a very prominent pattern I've noticed: extremism is highly linked with illiteracy. The West has probably not seen much radical raids owing to its advantageous progression in the global village. It is, in the bigger picture, not about Muslims against Non-Muslims. Trust me when I say that the obscene number of Muslims attacked by Muslims themselves is more alarming. This is a strong indicator of how extremism isn't employed solely against a differing ideology, rather, it blurs all boundaries and simply targets anything that does not condone the extremist individual/party's beliefs, even if the religion they shared was the same.

I cannot speak on behalf of all the Muslims in the West. I know that there are those who have refused to Westernize themselves while demanding a place within your communities, but I also know that there's a good portion that fits in readily and accepts the norms and culture of the local residents. Having views and acting on said views are two very different things; you cannot demand a person to remove their preferences (regardless of whether they stem from religious notions or personal ones), but you can definitely demand for them to apply tolerance. This is the difference between radicals and 'normal' Muslims--the former makes no distinction between notion and action.

When you say 'West', I hope you aren't generalizing. I don't think, and I'm sure you'd agree, that the entire of West itself cannot be grouped together to share a view, just like the entire Muslim world (and believe me, Sir, it's massive and diverse) cannot be subjected to similarly.
Therefore, I would politely disagree when you say that Muslims in other countries have encouraged Muslims in the West to kill people for drawing cartoons. This is pure generalization, I assure you, because your news may tell you the gist of reactions, they fail to deliver the other side. Always. Not to mention the fact that Islam in different countries is followed differently (not the religion itself, but the societal leniency and stigmas which prevail) and many of those countries tend to mix their culture with the religion. It is more prudent for you, then, to understand that Muslims of all colours and vibrancy exist--it's just that the bad ones always tend to stick out more and the good ones are pushed behind because, somehow, goodness is always considered overrated.

That's good then. These are the people that truly need and deserve help, it's a shame that there needs to be measures taken to defend people leaving Islam or "blaspheming". That will never be taken in the west without violent opposition. We've already had people killed, death threats issued, terrorists released back in our countries and lost, and people having to go into hiding. Even Muslims that speak out and form charities to try and help Muslim apostates get attacked in the west, I could list so much but it would just get off topic and take up the whole post.

I'd say your second point depends on the country. There are countries where Muslims are a victim of violent Muslims, but then there are also still quite a lot that are under islamic law that Muslims live under fine. That's not good news for apostates and other religions. They're definitely kafir and countries like that that have money are probably using the Quran for their own purposes. "Don't take Jews or Christians as friends". These islamic laws shouldn't exist but they do. I do agree that it blurs all boundaries, and that's why people should be scared of islamists in all countries. It's like communism.

As for your third point that's true, unfortunately. Crossing a border doesn't change someones literal view of Islam. But that's what the west fear, it's our leaders we fear. We actually can't demand tolerance anymore without the left saying "the bibles violent" or "it's not all Muslims". Our leaders tell us when the refugees came that they don't know who is raping women, but it's a fact that it's not Muslims. It's more serious in Islam than any other religion when you know you can't remove their preferences. Even "scholars" in the west promote extreme views and we tolerate it.

When I say west I mean a few western countries yes. Germany, Sweden, UK, Denmark etc. There are some sensible ones.

As for Muslims encouraging others, you had ayatollah Khomeinei who issued the fatwa against Salman Rushdie for writing the satanic verses. You had Junaid Hussain who encouraged the Texas Islamic shooting. You had Geert Wilders film "fitna" cause a fatwa from Australian Muslims, you had Denmark cartoonists killed and the Hebdo attacks, which also caused riots and deaths in other Muslim countries, you can just google any fatwas. This is the only religion you have an issue like this. Giving death threats to people for criticism of Islam isn't normal. And it shouldn't even be an issue of discussion and reasoning with Muslims but it still is. That shows a serious flaw with islam.

I've watched this guy from when he was just in a "racist" group, but he's written a book about what he's went through from the police just through criticising Islam. Now everyone pretty much accepts what he's been saying. I link it to show what he's gone through, and it's related because at about 18:40 he pretty much shows what we've got an issue with. "You can't go to London because we've let 450 isis fighters come back who want you dead" ~ the police.

Believe me when I tell you that all types of violent oppositions have been, and are, taken here in order to protect the rights of the minority. Apostasy may or may not be punishable by death in Islam (depending on the school of Islamic thought you follow), but no such punishment forms the constitution of Pakistani Law. The Supreme Court will have no choice but to release her under protection. And if it fails.. well, that's the day the entire nation definitely will fail.

"Even Muslims that speak out and form charities to try and help Muslim apostates get attacked in the west."
Not only in the West. I think such back lashes, inclusive of charges as strong as assassination, are more common in Muslim countries. So I know where you're coming from, except I desperately want you to realize that it is so much more worse to the preexisting Muslims in their Islamic countries.
Which brings me to the point of how you say some countries operate without any hitches under the Islamic Law: it is because they do not confuse law with theocracy. Saudi Arabia (I've lived there as well) is the only Islamic country to impose Shariah Law and make it synonymous to political law. The reason why its citizens are 'fine' (they're not, really) with the way things are running is because it's a Kingdom and no riots are tolerated and it dishes out sentences without any forms of other consideration. And its best skill: being best friends with America allows it to 'hush up' all barbarism and rebellions that does take place within the country. Much of the Islamic World, not without good reason, considers the Arabian peninsula a pretty huge pain in the arse and think its portrayal of the super religion as false and exaggerated.

"Don't take Jews or Christians as friends".
I come from a background which encourages diversity of beliefs, but I know what you mean by this. However, these are not laws of any Islamic country, it's simply damaging preaching inculcated in children by underexposed, racist and feeble-minded Muslim parents.
It is the same as the many Islamophobes of the West warning their children against making Muslims as friends or, at least, worrying about the quality of such a company among their offspring. This bias is shared equally between our worlds.

Those names of Muslims you mentioned who issued such ridiculous fatwas; an equal number, or perhaps greater, stand up to speak against such fatwas. As I mention intermittently--there is always opposition to such claims and demands. It's a tragedy they're often overshadowed. The media plays its pieces rather cleverly. Both with you and I.

Good man, I never intended to and nor do I still intend to counter you about Islam. You'll find me agreeing with you on some cold, hard facts that you've listed in your posts and which cannot be ignored. There are problems present somewhere which associate themselves with the religion, but they're quite exacerbated and their faithful rebels often cut out. I also know there are many holes in your knowledge and awareness (and in mine) and I can only tell you of that which is going on in the other side of the world. It would probably be hard for you to believe me, and I wouldn't force you to either, that there are many, many Muslims here who want that shredded peace with the West back.

Yeah that's fair enough. I'm just speaking in general, having never been to Pakistan I couldn't have known that people are so passionate about Asia Bibi's case and willing to protect her. A fair criticism of Islam would be as you said people not knowing where they stand on what Islam is. As you see from most of that illiterate area of Pakistan, that blasphemy law and attitude bred hate in a large portion of Muslims around her. They weren't necessarily terrorists, but that clearly shows an issue with Islam in the hands of people. Tbh it's a huge relief that she's probably going to be released and protected. It's just horrible to think her community would kill her.

I agree that Muslims are the sufferers of it (alongside other religions, Hindus in Pakistan also suffer) after seeing Asia's case. That shows the power of the religion. Whereas in the west we have governments who can't answer the apostacy question, and are too afraid of Muslims, we also see Pakistan implementing that blasphemy law when it shouldn't have. The damage that one act caused is horrible, and partly it could have been from fear of the back lash since Pakistani politicans died in that case.

I know Saudi Arabias influence, and by "fine" with it I also meant just tolerating it. Then again it's hard to say just how much of sharia law they do want. From what I've been hearing about Islam and the Quran there shouldn't be any sharia due to the amount of Muslims instisting it's un islamic. Instead they've wanted it or demanded it for so long that it's ingrained in Islam now. Btw I think Qatar has the death penalty for apostacy as well.

Whereas you said only Saudi Arabia and possibly Qatar have Islamic law, I've looked at what other laws they have and pretty much all Muslim countries punish trying to convert a Muslim, and not the other way around. There's one link of each Islamic countries apostacy laws, but you need to google each seperate country with "proselytizing" next to the country. Muslims aren't the victims then, it's always atheists, Christians, Bahai etc that get persecuted. Here's Egypts for example. As long as any country is arresting or killling people for different beliefs, or criticism then there will always be islamists and extreme views in Islam. And if they don't go, it gets harder and harder to say it's only a minority of Muslims that are extreme. Not to mention any country that has laws where Muslims are held higher in any way shape or form is completely fascist.

I've never been to an Islamic country, but with how easily we tolerate extreme views from supposedly the most educated Muslims in my country it is fair to criticise them.

It's also worrying that Islam can be used and manipulated in such a way. We haven't seen the same done with Christianity, and it's a shame because I know it's put a lot of people off from visiting Islamic countries, like Morroco or Egypt etc.

Dick_DawkinsMar 10, 2016 3:04 PM

Trance said:
I'm a guy and I can imagine buttfucking another guy. I don't find the thought repulsive, and I can even imagine kissing another man.

Mar 10, 2016 2:56 PM

#108

Revvie-chan

Offline

Oct 2014

1558

Extremist is everywhere on the majority.
Kinda pointless thread as a serious one... but pretty effective for flame wars. :D

Me myself don't hate Muslims.
But, yeah, I come from muslim majority country and even though I myself think their religion is absolute stupidity, I have lots of Muslim friends, lots of devotee between them, and some you can even call extremist.
They're a bunch of morons... but they have ideals and they stay true to it. At the least, they're better than most people in the world who simply eats & follows.

ps.: But there's nothing more annoying than walking behind a girl in hijab.
Not to disrespect the female gender, but hell it can be pretty annoying, especially if it rains and you don't have an umbrella with you.

Mar 10, 2016 3:05 PM

#109

International Saimoe League

Offline

Mar 2008

47514

Revvie-chan said:
ps.: But there's nothing more annoying than walking behind a girl in hijab.
Not to disrespect the female gender, but hell it can be pretty annoying, especially if it rains and you don't have an umbrella with you.

What? I dont understand what you mean here.

Mar 10, 2016 3:24 PM

#110

Revvie-chan

Offline

Oct 2014

1558

traed said:

Revvie-chan said:
ps.: But there's nothing more annoying than walking behind a girl in hijab.
Not to disrespect the female gender, but hell it can be pretty annoying, especially if it rains and you don't have an umbrella with you.

What? I dont understand what you mean here.

well, it's hard to understand if you never have it happened to you or you're a Muslim from the start or you're a girl.

In short: they walk so slow thus you need to past around them. Problem is: if you're on a narrow place, you can't actually do that. You have no option but to walk on their pace, which can feel like forever.

Mar 10, 2016 3:53 PM

#111

International Saimoe League

Offline

Mar 2008

47514

@Revvie-chan
What? lol I dont see how walking speed has to do with a hijab.

Mar 10, 2016 4:14 PM

#112

Revvie-chan

Offline

Oct 2014

1558

Yasuko said:

traed said:
@Revvie-chan
What? lol I dont see how walking speed has to do with a hijab.

I think he's talking about the long black abayas that some muslims wear. LOOOL such a weird thing to bring up on here though.

That's why I put it on the ps section.
It's not completely relevant to the topic in talk, anyway.
And that's why I say it's hard to understand if you haven't had it happened to you.

Nah, I'm not talking about the black abayas. I'm talking hijab.
Hijab, abayas, they're the same thing to me.

I can continue some irrelevant rant for the whole page if you want it but I shall refrain from doing so for now since I'm sure people will judge me unfavorably for voicing complain for such mundane matter.

Mar 10, 2016 4:14 PM

#113

Spooks

Offline

Aug 2013

15696

Weird thing about what women wear in Islamic countries is that I don't think it was even originally meant to hide women from men. I'm pretty sure back in the actual age of Islam it was because its good desert protection from sand and the sun. I think the outfit has more practical origins than male gaze but everyone, including the modern Muslims acts like its got something to do with religious or marriage reasons.

Mar 10, 2016 4:25 PM

#114

Offline

Mar 2008

47514

Spooks said:
Weird thing about what women wear in Islamic countries is that I don't think it was even originally meant to hide women from men. I'm pretty sure back in the actual age of Islam it was because its good desert protection from sand and the sun. I think the outfit has more practical origins than male gaze but everyone, including the modern Muslims acts like its got something to do with religious or marriage reasons.

Perhaps yes if you are referring to body covering but if you mean the hair covering then no. The hair coverings in Islam was and limitedly still is similarly done by Jews and Christians. If it was for protection it would apply to males too but it always has been for women. The only religion where men cover their hair is Sikhism.

Mar 10, 2016 8:10 PM

#115

Offline

Feb 2016

274

_Yato_God said:

Your reference? That's pathetic what you wrote. I have read history of many nations and what you are saying is totally made up nonsense.

What about what I said is made up? It would be pathetic if what I was saying was false, but Muhammad led plenty of attacks on groups ranging from merchant caravans to entire tribes, and even ordered assassinations.

This is all in the Quranic literature, try reading it some time. If you're talking about my guess at why young Muslims join groups like ISIS, that's the only reason I can think of why they would do so. If you want to know the Jewish tribe that got killed/enslaved so you can look it up, they were the Banu Qurayza.

Mar 10, 2016 10:34 PM

#116

Offline

Mar 2016

1111

Yumadu-nii said:

_Yato_God said:

Your reference? That's pathetic what you wrote. I have read history of many nations and what you are saying is totally made up nonsense.

What about what I said is made up? It would be pathetic if what I was saying was false, but Muhammad led plenty of attacks on groups ranging from merchant caravans to entire tribes, and even ordered assassinations.

This is all in the Quranic literature, try reading it some time. If you're talking about my guess at why young Muslims join groups like ISIS, that's the only reason I can think of why they would do so. If you want to know the Jewish tribe that got killed/enslaved so you can look it up, they were the Banu Qurayza.

You didn't quote any valid reference. And I don't want any from Islam religion of Peace or such website.

Mar 10, 2016 10:44 PM

#117

Offline

Mar 2016

1111

And you people are as dumb as Trump supporters. Quran was revealed 1400 years ago at the time women were sexually harassed at Arab, it was just right that time for women to cover themselves. Quran was revealed as a guidance to people of that time and place concerning matters of those days not of future. Now it's the job of those Muslim priests to guide their people according to the text and seeing how it will fit in this era. It's not Islams fault that most of those priests are war mongering/ illiterate bastards.

Mar 10, 2016 11:17 PM

#118

Offline

Mar 2016

1111

Masked_Mantis said:

k0k0 said:

Masked_Mantis said:

k0k0 said:

Ah, it's the Asiya Noreen case. Reigned by a Judge of Sheikhpura, which happens to be among the more illiterate parts of the country, and taken to the Court of Lahore, Punjab, the province where much of the poverty-stricken and uneducated religious groups reside.
The Supreme Court has suspended the case, and two prominent political muslim figures had fought for Asiya's rights (and paid with their lives for it), and huge movements and outcries were forged for her protection by the educated minority of the country.

So, you see, while I cannot say that you cannot pin the blame on Islam, I can definitely say that you can pin the blame on illiteracy. Pakistan, as one country, should not be seen justifying this act. God knows how many riots broke out between the classes of Muslims which reside in it. If there is a side which caters to extremism, there is a side that exists which opposes it.

Just thought I'd clarify the details for you, since I was among the protestants myself and I do not consider the literate population of Pakistan to fall under the category of extremist muslims.

By suspended doesn't that mean it's just on hold? That's what I've read from all the articles. They're reviewing her case that's all.

As for whether it's to do with an educated view of Islam or not that's still a rational fear. In the west nothing like this has happened, but we feel our freedom slipping away with how corrupt the police are in covering up Muslim scandals. Muslims in the west haven't experienced a case like Asiya's but they definitely still have the same views as the illiterate Muslims in Pakistan. We have Muslims in the government who say you shouldn't be able to criticise Islam, then people are shocked when Muslims protest demanding blasphemy laws. People in the west are scared of how politically correct their leaders are, and of course of islamists. They can't be called islamaphobic because even Hindus and Sikhs fear Islamic issues.

When Muslims in other countries are encouraging Muslims in the west to kill people for drawing cartoons then how are they really any different from the illiterate Pakistani Muslims you mentioned? They hold the exact same views in an increasingly insecure country.

It is on hold. There's an appeal just this month, and I'm pretty sure she'll make it and be taken under protection after all the effort the human rights groups here have put in. There's no guarantee, but her situation has been flowing in hopeful waters.

'Educated view of Islam' isn't really an accurate phrase to use, in my opinion. You see, as a Muslim who's lived in both developed and developing countries (including Pakistan), there's a very prominent pattern I've noticed: extremism is highly linked with illiteracy. The West has probably not seen much radical raids owing to its advantageous progression in the global village. It is, in the bigger picture, not about Muslims against Non-Muslims. Trust me when I say that the obscene number of Muslims attacked by Muslims themselves is more alarming. This is a strong indicator of how extremism isn't employed solely against a differing ideology, rather, it blurs all boundaries and simply targets anything that does not condone the extremist individual/party's beliefs, even if the religion they shared was the same.

I cannot speak on behalf of all the Muslims in the West. I know that there are those who have refused to Westernize themselves while demanding a place within your communities, but I also know that there's a good portion that fits in readily and accepts the norms and culture of the local residents. Having views and acting on said views are two very different things; you cannot demand a person to remove their preferences (regardless of whether they stem from religious notions or personal ones), but you can definitely demand for them to apply tolerance. This is the difference between radicals and 'normal' Muslims--the former makes no distinction between notion and action.

When you say 'West', I hope you aren't generalizing. I don't think, and I'm sure you'd agree, that the entire of West itself cannot be grouped together to share a view, just like the entire Muslim world (and believe me, Sir, it's massive and diverse) cannot be subjected to similarly.
Therefore, I would politely disagree when you say that Muslims in other countries have encouraged Muslims in the West to kill people for drawing cartoons. This is pure generalization, I assure you, because your news may tell you the gist of reactions, they fail to deliver the other side. Always. Not to mention the fact that Islam in different countries is followed differently (not the religion itself, but the societal leniency and stigmas which prevail) and many of those countries tend to mix their culture with the religion. It is more prudent for you, then, to understand that Muslims of all colours and vibrancy exist--it's just that the bad ones always tend to stick out more and the good ones are pushed behind because, somehow, goodness is always considered overrated.

That's good then. These are the people that truly need and deserve help, it's a shame that there needs to be measures taken to defend people leaving Islam or "blaspheming". That will never be taken in the west without violent opposition. We've already had people killed, death threats issued, terrorists released back in our countries and lost, and people having to go into hiding. Even Muslims that speak out and form charities to try and help Muslim apostates get attacked in the west, I could list so much but it would just get off topic and take up the whole post.

I'd say your second point depends on the country. There are countries where Muslims are a victim of violent Muslims, but then there are also still quite a lot that are under islamic law that Muslims live under fine. That's not good news for apostates and other religions. They're definitely kafir and countries like that that have money are probably using the Quran for their own purposes. "Don't take Jews or Christians as friends". These islamic laws shouldn't exist but they do. I do agree that it blurs all boundaries, and that's why people should be scared of islamists in all countries. It's like communism.

As for your third point that's true, unfortunately. Crossing a border doesn't change someones literal view of Islam. But that's what the west fear, it's our leaders we fear. We actually can't demand tolerance anymore without the left saying "the bibles violent" or "it's not all Muslims". Our leaders tell us when the refugees came that they don't know who is raping women, but it's a fact that it's not Muslims. It's more serious in Islam than any other religion when you know you can't remove their preferences. Even "scholars" in the west promote extreme views and we tolerate it.

When I say west I mean a few western countries yes. Germany, Sweden, UK, Denmark etc. There are some sensible ones.

As for Muslims encouraging others, you had ayatollah Khomeinei who issued the fatwa against Salman Rushdie for writing the satanic verses. You had Junaid Hussain who encouraged the Texas Islamic shooting. You had Geert Wilders film "fitna" cause a fatwa from Australian Muslims, you had Denmark cartoonists killed and the Hebdo attacks, which also caused riots and deaths in other Muslim countries, you can just google any fatwas. This is the only religion you have an issue like this. Giving death threats to people for criticism of Islam isn't normal. And it shouldn't even be an issue of discussion and reasoning with Muslims but it still is. That shows a serious flaw with islam.

I've watched this guy from when he was just in a "racist" group, but he's written a book about what he's went through from the police just through criticising Islam. Now everyone pretty much accepts what he's been saying. I link it to show what he's gone through, and it's related because at about 18:40 he pretty much shows what we've got an issue with. "You can't go to London because we've let 450 isis fighters come back who want you dead" ~ the police.

Sorry i can't read all your posts again and reply to the one you are talking about. In one of them you wrote that Hindus/sikhs fear muslims, are you out of your mind? Just a couple months ago i read in BBC that some Indian hindus lynched a Muslim elder man just because he used to eat meat, what the fuck nonsense is that? And another news i read a Christian guy in America drove his car a Muslim boy for no reason just because he hate Muslims?

First see what others do before you start writing stories about someone, in most of your posts you are writing against Muslims.

The reason i wrote Hell in my location is not a joke it's because we are living in Hell infact worse. We know Hell is a bad place or atleast we are told about that, but Earth is seemed as a good place to live in where all these crimes happen. I can't just point out a huge group doing bad activity or a small or individuals, there are all sorts of crimes happening daily near you and me. Not all of them are Muslims related.

Mar 11, 2016 2:56 AM

#119

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Apr 2014

4169

@_Yato_God

I just went back to my post where I said that and it explains everything. Koko is telling me of the situation in Pakistan and other Muslim countries which I was naware of. But she also understands that I'm telling her about the situation with Islam in my country and a few other European countries. Don't buy the whole "Muslims are oppressed in the west" nonsense. I mentioned Hindus and Sikhs in my country fearing Muslims, and they do because they're the only demographic that has failed miserably to integrate into our society and culture after 2001. Hindus and Sikhs (Sikhs have a long history of helping the British) were victims of Muslim rape gangs because the police and left labelled it "Asian grooming gangs". That shows how being politically correct can be just as racist, some of them were even African. The police have apologised now to Hindu and Sikh communities because people from the grooming gangs admitted they were told by islamists to target kafur. Asians haven't failed to integrate into society, so people were disgusted by the police.

As for Hindus vs Muslims in other countries you can't ignore history either. You're praising everything Muhammad did. It is someones fault that people today still are war mongering illiterate people. The Quran made the mistake of being the unchanging literal interpretation of god.
I do know what others do, and I don't condone random things done like you just said. It's no use getting into a contest like that, I can tell you way more crimes done by Muslims to Hindus that's led to animosity. The goal is for everyone worldwide to see that Islam is the only religion that protects it's own and acts like the mafia nowadays.

Dick_DawkinsMar 11, 2016 3:15 AM

Trance said:
I'm a guy and I can imagine buttfucking another guy. I don't find the thought repulsive, and I can even imagine kissing another man.

Mar 11, 2016 3:46 AM

#120

Konte

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Jan 2015

944

Yasuko_ said:
I don't get why this thread is only aiming at muslims? Just like Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Jews there will be some bad ones some good ones.

Konte said:
I like & dislike Muslims....what I like about 'em is that they make my whole day awesome while watching ISIS/terrorism vids...I like gore that's it...
What I dislike about 'em is that when they're yelling that Allahu Akhbar shit....damn that's annoying...yeah I'm talking about terrorists only....atleast Muslim girls is kinda hot ( Imagination is wonderful thing )

The way you're saying it is like all muslims are ISIS/terrorists. Gosh there's so many idiots like you around.

Yes, they may shout out "ALLAHU AKBAR" but before calling that shit you should find out what it means. And those dumbass gits don't have a right to say that in the first place and should be ashamed of themselves.

dude, I was only talking about terrorists xD not about all muslims, baka....and yes you can't be safe with those muslims, they must die!! [Probably you're a Muslim, so please don't give me your shit #fuckMuslimScums2016]

KonteMar 11, 2016 3:54 AM

Mar 11, 2016 4:02 AM

#121

yuhnagi

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Apr 2013

554

I have Muslim friends and I trust them. There are harmful and harmless Muslims just like any other people.

Forum set by: DeadlyBasan

Mar 11, 2016 4:20 AM

#122

flannan

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Nov 2009

8716

_Yato_God said:
Quran was revealed 1400 years ago

Exactly. That's why it's time to put it in the museum, slaughter the priests, and think up a new way to live that is compatible with the modern technology and modern moral advancements.

Mar 11, 2016 4:23 AM

#123

ultravigo

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Aug 2015

2468

well literally there's a muslim community 2 min apart from my house...even funny is that there's a hindu temple just a few step apart from masjid and it's never been a problem...infact there's never a single religion conflict in history of nepal.....so yeah i trust them

ultravigoMar 11, 2016 4:31 AM

Mar 11, 2016 4:25 AM

#124

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Mar 2016

1111

flannan said:

_Yato_God said:
Quran was revealed 1400 years ago

Exactly. That's why it's time to put it in the museum, slaughter the priests, and think up a new way to live that is compatible with the modern technology and modern moral advancements.

I won't mind that. Infact all those who fail to modernize while living in the west should be sent back to their homelands and those who get used to west practices and change their lifestyle according to that may stay. I mean what's the point of going abroad if you are not going to accept their culture.

Mar 11, 2016 5:01 AM

#125

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Apr 2014

4169

_Yato_God said:
I mean what's the point of going abroad if you are not going to accept their culture.

Why do you think?

Sharia law poll surveys

Many Muslims disagree with each other, but you can't deny that Islam has politics deeply rooted in it. You just need to look at Islamic law worldwide and see their history. Islam can't be a good ideology.

I love how easy people can say those who don't modernize should be sent back home. It's wrong and naive on way too many levels that I wouldn't know where to begin. Islam as a dominant religion in the hands of western Muslims is a recipe for disaster.

Dick_DawkinsMar 11, 2016 5:07 AM

Trance said:
I'm a guy and I can imagine buttfucking another guy. I don't find the thought repulsive, and I can even imagine kissing another man.

Mar 11, 2016 6:08 AM

#126

Malarkey

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May 2015

2588

isnt this obvious? ofc I hate fundamentalists of any religion but I dont hate all muslims

Freddy Nicholas said:
have control, be yourself, god is dead

Mar 11, 2016 6:17 AM

#127

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Feb 2016

534

Nah! I dont distrust them. I like them actually. Iam from India and there a lot of muslims around me.

Seriously those who follow the true islam are pretty awesome. They are truly good-to-get-along with guys!

I personally have learned a lot of good lessons which nobody else in my society taught.

And there seems to be a lot of circles. I had a friend the other day, who told me Sufism is the most inner circle of them all.

And their Qur'an too is totally peaceful message giving book.

I dont hate Islam at all. I mean why should I, its teachings are much much better than many other religion in my state.

But I, including my muslim friends do totally hate the modern islamists...they totally dont follow the real islam though. Its more like they picked up a religion as their front to do whatever evil things they intended to do from the very beginning.

Its totally sad that the Muslims are being accused of this though. And 1/3 of the world consist of muslims.!

Anyway, those who said, they hate muslims, I tell you, believe me, they are totally decent people, the terorrists who have no faith in anything at all have stained and turned the outer-world's (where-there-is-no-muslim-people) view of muslims pretty bad.

Maybe someday, everything will change...

j0x said:
i just hate jihadists and martyrs on the muslim world since they can be terrorists

not all muslims are bad since there is this liberal muslim movements that is increasing in numbers and want to reform islam to become aligned with the modern world

khunter said:

s_enpaiternal said:
That's like asking if someone distrusts Christians. Generally, I don't care about their religion but if they're assholes I'll dislike them. I've met more Christians and Catholics I distrust compared to Muslims.

I don't think it's like asking that at all. People have a general dislike towards muslims

Yumadu-nii said:
Well, all it takes to start a Muslim's path to radicalization is for them to read the wrong text or talk to the wrong imam about becoming more religious. The difficulty in modernizing Islam and making it more resistant to radical beliefs is in the fact that whereas Christianity has Jesus as a role model, Islam has Muhammad.

The issue with this is, there's a strong suggestion, some on the extreme end would say a commandment, to live as close to Muhammad's life as possible. Throughout Muhammad's life after becoming a prophet, he often went around in a group of warriors killing people and taking their stuff and women. You can see the problem with interpreting this in the modern day, and it's easy to see why groups like ISIS have their appeal to muslims who want to become closer to Muhammad by copying his war exploits, one of which is killing an entire Jewish tribe's men and enslaving their women and children.

I dont know from where you learned such a thing, but what I heard from my friend is not like that at all.....

The wars held back then where so peaceful, that in fact one of their agenda even included not to cut down any trees!

seriously killing people for no reason....what kind of muslim idot told you that?
lol, my friends would totally get angry at him....And ISIS copying Muhammed's Life??

Thats like totally freaking far from real! What ISIS does is killing innocent people. and what muslim's back then did was prevent people from doing evil stuffs, totally way too opposite.

Well this issue is going on alot around here in India too, but since India is one of the places where true Islam seems to be mostly rooted and practiced, Muslims here are totally against ISIS using fake statements to lure people in and saying its Muhammad's way.

We totally frickin'hate ISIS..... :/

Mar 11, 2016 6:21 AM

#128

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Feb 2016

534

Masked_Mantis said:

_Yato_God said:
I mean what's the point of going abroad if you are not going to accept their culture.

Why do you think?

Many Muslims disagree with each other, but you can't deny that Islam has politics deeply rooted in it. You just need to look at Islamic law worldwide and see their history. Islam can't be a good ideology.

I love how easy people can say those who don't modernize should be sent back home. It's wrong and naive on way too many levels that I wouldn't know where to begin. Islam as a dominant religion in the hands of western Muslims is a recipe for disaster.

Those are either totally retarded people or misinformed muslims...

But one things sure, they are not true muslims....

Cause There are millions of muslims here in india who have no objection with democracy...
And making violence out of it? those people in the photos must be totally non-muslims or they have their reasons in their country or state that you and i could understand....maybe?

IvisireMar 11, 2016 6:43 AM

Mar 11, 2016 6:38 AM

#129

Nunnally03

Offline

Dec 2015

2319

There are Muslim terrorists
and there are Muslims who live a normal life who also wish to have a peaceful life.

I think most people only hate Muslim Terrorists, not Muslims as a whole.

Mar 11, 2016 6:56 AM

#130

Xykko

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Sep 2010

3231

-DeepThroat- said:

Aeonenleben said:

I am not Kant but i sense some serious Daddy-issues right here.

idk where you got daddy issues from anything i posted but ok lol do you.
i never even said i hated white people i just said i dont trust alot of yall

this dude uses ad hominem attacks to make him look superior to you when in fact he's jsut another wizard insecure about himself.

regarding the op, as decimo said the media and entertainment created a wrong image of muslims, showing them as rapists, murderers, pedophiles and terrorists, failing to point out that they are just a small part of the followers that do that, much like christians, atheist, agnostic, shintoist, protestants , lutherans also have. it's normal to have rotten apples in a good tree.

so you i don't judge muslims as a whole but as each of them are (with their actions and all)

"Be who you are and say what you mean, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind" - Dr. Seuss

Mar 11, 2016 7:05 AM

#131

CondemneDio

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Jan 2013

6445

I generally don't trust people that are openly and zealously religious.

Mar 11, 2016 8:26 AM

#132

KaoruMatsuoka

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May 2015

3235

Now I'm not saying there should be a tenth crusade, but there should be a tenth crusade.

Anime List▼Manga List▼Watch Sansha Sanyou!▼Neko Pub

Mar 11, 2016 8:36 AM

#133

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Feb 2016

274

_Yato_God said:

You didn't quote any valid reference. And I don't want any from Islam religion of Peace or such website.

I don't even know what that website is, sounds like one of those Muslim smear websites. I told you it was in the Quran and Sunnah, but you didn't bother reading. I actually have the books.

Ivisire said:

I dont know from where you learned such a thing, but what I heard from my friend is not like that at all.....

The wars held back then where so peaceful, that in fact one of their agenda even included not to cut down any trees!

seriously killing people for no reason....what kind of muslim idot told you that?
lol, my friends would totally get angry at him....And ISIS copying Muhammed's Life??

Thats like totally freaking far from real! What ISIS does is killing innocent people. and what muslim's back then did was prevent people from doing evil stuffs, totally way too opposite.

Well this issue is going on alot around here in India too, but since India is one of the places where true Islam seems to be mostly rooted and practiced, Muslims here are totally against ISIS using fake statements to lure people in and saying its Muhammad's way.

We totally frickin'hate ISIS..... :/

Sorry if I gave you the wrong idea, I'm not saying Muhammad's group was bad or like ISIS. I'm just trying to show how some bad imams can influence people into thinking that way. It's a shame, the Muslims who join these groups think they're doing good but they're doing the opposite.

I didn't say he was killing people for no reason, but he did kill and enslave a lot of people, and some people think this gives them justification to do it today. You're right that he had a lot of rules about war and was very peaceful for the time, didn't cut trees and usually treated people fairly. Unfortunately some radical muslims ignore this good part.

There's a few radical imams in Europe and America that have a warped view of Islam and support groups like ISIS. Some of the people who go to their mosques, especially young Muslims, might get a wrong idea about what it means to be a Muslim from these imams.

Mar 11, 2016 8:45 AM

#134

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Feb 2016

534

Yumadu-nii said:

_Yato_God said:

You didn't quote any valid reference. And I don't want any from Islam religion of Peace or such website.

I don't even know what that website is, sounds like one of those Muslim smear websites. I told you it was in the Quran and Sunnah, but you didn't bother reading. I actually have the books.

Ivisire said:

I dont know from where you learned such a thing, but what I heard from my friend is not like that at all.....

The wars held back then where so peaceful, that in fact one of their agenda even included not to cut down any trees!

seriously killing people for no reason....what kind of muslim idot told you that?
lol, my friends would totally get angry at him....And ISIS copying Muhammed's Life??

Thats like totally freaking far from real! What ISIS does is killing innocent people. and what muslim's back then did was prevent people from doing evil stuffs, totally way too opposite.

Well this issue is going on alot around here in India too, but since India is one of the places where true Islam seems to be mostly rooted and practiced, Muslims here are totally against ISIS using fake statements to lure people in and saying its Muhammad's way.

We totally frickin'hate ISIS..... :/

Sorry if I gave you the wrong idea, I'm not saying Muhammad's group was bad or like ISIS. I'm just trying to show how some bad imams can influence people into thinking that way. It's a shame, the Muslims who join these groups think they're doing good but they're doing the opposite.

I didn't say he was killing people for no reason, but he did kill and enslave a lot of people, and some people think this gives them justification to do it today. You're right that he had a lot of rules about war and was very peaceful for the time, didn't cut trees and usually treated people fairly. Unfortunately some radical muslims ignore this good part.

There's a few radical imams in Europe and America that have a warped view of Islam and support groups like ISIS. Some of the people who go to their mosques, especially young Muslims, might get a wrong idea about what it means to be a Muslim from these imams.

exactly...now we are on the same line...:)

Mar 11, 2016 8:46 AM

#135

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Feb 2016

274

Ivisire said:

exactly...now we are on the same line...:)

Glad I cleared that up :) Are you Muslim or just your friends?

Mar 11, 2016 8:49 AM

#136

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Feb 2016

534

Yumadu-nii said:

Ivisire said:

exactly...now we are on the same line...:)

Glad I cleared that up :) Are you Muslim or just your friends?

Just my friends...i dont know what I will do....maybe i will become one in the future? dont know.... anyway, here in my area, we have a Muslim Masjid, Hindu Temple, and a Christian Church on the same junction....and no fights....!

pretty awesome huh?! ..:p

Mar 11, 2016 8:53 AM

#137

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Feb 2016

274

Ivisire said:

Just my friends...i dont know what I will do....maybe i will become one in the future? dont know.... anyway, here in my area, we have a Muslim Masjid, Hindu Temple, and a Christian Church on the same junction....and no fights....!

pretty awesome huh?! ..:p

Yeah :) I think India is pretty cool how it can have everyone coexist like that, and I like Hinduism and Sikhism too.

Mar 11, 2016 9:02 AM

#138

Offline

Feb 2016

534

Yumadu-nii said:

Ivisire said:

Just my friends...i dont know what I will do....maybe i will become one in the future? dont know.... anyway, here in my area, we have a Muslim Masjid, Hindu Temple, and a Christian Church on the same junction....and no fights....!

pretty awesome huh?! ..:p

Yeah :) I think India is pretty cool how it can have everyone coexist like that, and I like Hinduism and Sikhism too.

thats something...:D really...

what religion you follow?

btw, hinduism has a vast history...but i think its second to islam though...which begins from 10,000 years back....

but both follow Guru-Shishya (Master-Disciple) style in their deepest and most true forms. Still, muslims' knowledge over soul is second to none here....whenever things related to excorcism and all comes up, our Chata Sevas and Namboodiris do good excorcism, but islamic Sufi Saints, who live here are better and more efficient at them...

Mar 11, 2016 9:04 AM

#139

Offline

Apr 2014

4169

Ivisire said:

Masked_Mantis said:

Why do you think?

Many Muslims disagree with each other, but you can't deny that Islam has politics deeply rooted in it. You just need to look at Islamic law worldwide and see their history. Islam can't be a good ideology.

I love how easy people can say those who don't modernize should be sent back home. It's wrong and naive on way too many levels that I wouldn't know where to begin. Islam as a dominant religion in the hands of western Muslims is a recipe for disaster.

Those are either totally retarded people or misinformed muslims...

But one things sure, they are not true muslims....

Cause There are millions of muslims here in india who have no objection with democracy...
And making violence out of it? those people in the photos must be totally non-muslims or they have their reasons in their country or state that you and i could understand....maybe?

It's a difficult wide ranged issue, talking with people on here before about the situation with Islam in Pakistan and India etc was great because it's a side you don't see in the west. The problem is it's also a side Muslims in the west don't see. They think because they've read the Quran they're cultured with Islam worldwide. They hate soldiers and wanna jihad with their heroes in Syria. *yawn, boring. But that is exactly their dumb mindest.

It's not much to do with integrating into someones culture anymore. No one has an issue with multiculturalism but there are still too many Muslims like those pictures in certain countries. Soon they'll be born and bred in that same country, teaching their kids to hate democracy.

The rhetoric of "not all Muslims" has failed in the west unfortunately. And what I mean by that is that it's not tackled the issue that the politically correct also claim to hate (the islamists). Even tackling them you get called a racist or islamaphobe. Police censor any criticism through the fear that you'll provoke violence, and it's absurd. We've let hate preachers recruit so many young Muslims who have no opinion on war or foreign policy, to go and fight in Syria while also being against the country they're currently in.

In western countries these are legitimate concerns. A significantly large portion want Islamic law, and with the amount of young Muslims that are taught to hate the west that number just keeps on growing. At some point if people keep mentioning it's not all Muslims they'll just forget the issue at hand completely. The same hateful and incompatible interpretation of the Quran can't keep being passed down through generations, which is what we've all seen. They're not stupid, they just do hate democracy and want an Islamic theocracy. Unfortunately there's also a lot that do want that and they'll debate that and appear peaceful and appealing to Muslims.

Dick_DawkinsMar 11, 2016 9:08 AM

Trance said:
I'm a guy and I can imagine buttfucking another guy. I don't find the thought repulsive, and I can even imagine kissing another man.

Mar 11, 2016 9:06 AM

#140

Yarub

Offline

Aug 2012

6207

Yumadu-nii said:
killing an entire Jewish tribe's men and enslaving their women and children.

Enslaving women and children while Islam discouraged the use of slaves in Arabia, You're making yourself look like a fool. And I'm sure the genocide of that tribe is also a lie, since they are sure to live peacefully with Muslims if they pay the tax.

flannan said:

2) Islam is against freedom, and they keep forcing other people to live by their rules. They give horrible punishments and even kill people for things like wearing pants. That's horrible.

Oh god, people wear pants even in Saudi Arabia. Stop making a fool out of yourself.

YarubMar 11, 2016 9:26 AM

Mar 11, 2016 9:10 AM

#141

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Feb 2016

534

Masked_Mantis said:
It's a difficult wide ranged issue, talking with people on here before about the situation with Islam in Pakistan and India etc was great because it's a side you don't see in the west. The problem is it's also a side Muslims in the west don't see. They think because they've read the Quran they're cultured with Islam worldwide. They hate soldiers and wanna jihad with their heroes in Syria. *yawn, boring. But that is exactly their dumb mindest.

It's not much to do with integrating into someones culture anymore. No one has an issue with multiculturalism but there are still too many Muslims like those pictures in certain countries. Soon they'll be born and bred in that same country, teaching their kids to hate democracy.

The rhetoric of "not all Muslims" has failed in the west unfortunately. And what I mean by that is that it's not tackled the issue that the politically correct also claim to hate (the islamists). Even tackling them you get called a racist or islamaphobe. Police censor any criticism through the fear that you'll provoke violence, and it's absurd. We've let hate preachers recruit so many young Muslims who have no opinion on war or foreign policy, to go and fight in Syria while also being against the country they're currently in.

In western countries these are legitimate concerns. A significantly large portion want Islamic law, and with the amount of young Muslims that are taught to hate the west that number just keeps on growing. At some point if people keep mentioning it's not all Muslims they'll just forget the issue at hand completely. The same hateful and incompatible interpretation of the Quran can't keep being passed down through generations, which is what we've all seen. They're not stupid, they just do hate democracy and want an Islamic theocracy. Unfortunately there's also a lot that do want that and they'll debate that and appear peaceful and appealing to Muslims.

Yeah, it has turned into a never ending-like loop ryt? lol ...anyway someday everything might change? lol... Pain's dialogue comes to my mind now...from naruto about the vicious cycle of hatred....guess thats whats happening in the west....

whatever, though their Qur'an and Sunnah are well preserved to this day, it seems there are a lot terrorists who use the means of teaching islam for their own purposes...and teach all the wrong stuff and brainwash innocent people into doing all the evil things that they can make them do....though it is totally out of contrary to what they would have experienced had they been exposed to true islam....its pity...

IvisireMar 11, 2016 9:15 AM

Mar 11, 2016 9:23 AM

#142

You

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I'm okay with them. In fact I'm like an ireligious person around a bunch of Muslims tbh.

Mar 11, 2016 9:26 AM

#143

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Feb 2016

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IntellectualMr said:

Enslaving women and children while Islam prohibited the use of slaves in Arabia, You're making yourself look like a fool. And I'm sure the genocide of that tribe is also a lie, since they are sure to live peacefully with Muslims if they pay the tax.

Cool, now go read the Quran and Sunnah. Why do people think I'm making this stuff up without checking first? If you want the tribe's name so you don't have to read the texts, they're the Banu Qurayza, and according to Ibn Ishaq's Sīratu Rasūli l-Lāh, i.e. Muhammad's prophetic biography, the men were all beheaded and the women and children were enslaved.

Please at least check if something's true before trying to dispute it.

Mar 11, 2016 9:28 AM

#144

GeekySweetie

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Media only reflects the current situation - I'm sure over in the middle east there must be movies, videogames, and comics with american or european villains as well.

Back during world war 2, all of the comic books had nazi's in them. Marvel, etc. Authors tend to write about what they know and draw inspiration from the world around them. Even in fiction/fantasy works, they get those ideas from somewhere not just out of thin air.

I do not hate muslims or arabic people - but I believe that the fear most people have is completely rational. The arabic people brought it upon themselves when they chose to blow up many United States and European civilians. This is a war that the muslims started, and therefore, many people do naturally blame them. Yes, we have also blown up arabic civilians, accidentally bombing schools, or hospitals, etc. Sh*t happens when you're in wartime. They brought that upon themselves too - and continue to entice more terror and hostility. I actually wouldn't mind if they were just blown off the face of the earth just to put an end to this stupid terrorist bullsh*t. But if it's not them, it'll just be some other group of whackos out there, so to quote Fallout 4 "War never changes" Not to mention we still have "extremists" who are white, or black, or any other number of things. Most serial killers are white males and that's a scary fact. White on Black (and Black on White) hate crimes are STILL a huge problem in America, made worse recently by police brutality and retaliation.

People learn to hate "groups" Hate Arabics, Hate Blacks, Hate Muslims, Hate Police Officers, Hate Religious "Activists" etc --- Instead of trying to justify that people of any color, faith, religion, profession, political organization, or country, etc are all capable of evil.

I hate terrorists regardless of the color or religious beliefs because they rob innocent uninvolved people taking their lives, or the lives of their loved ones, children, husbands, wives, sisters, brothers, grandmas, whatever - that's someone's special someone, it's very sad, and senseless. It's a random act of violence - and what does it accomplish? The US is never going to give in to terrorist threats - no matter how many civilians they kill - all they're doing is bringing more pain and suffering to themselves as the US will retaliate and has the biggest military by far.

http://geekysweetie.com

Mar 11, 2016 9:30 AM

#145

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Ivisire said:

Yumadu-nii said:

Yeah :) I think India is pretty cool how it can have everyone coexist like that, and I like Hinduism and Sikhism too.

thats something...:D really...

what religion you follow?

btw, hinduism has a vast history...but i think its second to islam though...which begins from 10,000 years back....

but both follow Guru-Shishya (Master-Disciple) style in their deepest and most true forms. Still, muslims' knowledge over soul is second to none here....whenever things related to excorcism and all comes up, our Chata Sevas and Namboodiris do good excorcism, but islamic Sufi Saints, who live here are better and more efficient at them...

I don't follow any religion, I guess you could say I'm waiting until I figure out the correct one. :) Islam is good for exorcism? Interesting, I'll have to do more research on Sufi Islam. Maybe it'lll turn out to be correct.

Mar 11, 2016 9:34 AM

#146

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Yumadu-nii said:
I don't follow any religion, I guess you could say I'm waiting until I figure out the correct one. :) Islam is good for exorcism? Interesting, I'll have to do more research on Sufi Islam. Maybe it'lll turn out to be correct.

seriously?! we both maybe in the same shoes I guess?
I am still studying Islamic things...and not that content with hinduism much....
because, even in our belief, at the top level, there is only One God.

And watsup with excorcism and them being ryt? I find it strange how you got to connect those two?

Mar 11, 2016 9:35 AM

#147

Yarub

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Yumadu-nii said:

IntellectualMr said:

Enslaving women and children while Islam discouraged the use of slaves in Arabia, You're making yourself look like a fool. And I'm sure the genocide of that tribe is also a lie, since they are sure to live peacefully with Muslims if they pay the tax.

Cool, now go read the Quran and Sunnah. Why do people think I'm making this stuff up without checking first? If you want the tribe's name so you don't have to read the texts, they're the Banu Qurayza, and according to Ibn Ishaq's Sīratu Rasūli l-Lāh, i.e. Muhammad's prophetic biography, the men were all beheaded and the women and children were enslaved.

Please at least check if something's true before trying to dispute it.

Oh, They got killed because they were siding with Muslim's enemies at that time. And they were going to invade them from the inside of the city. As for the slavery, it is discouraged in Islam and Manumission was was encouraged by the prophet himself. Slaves had rights in Islam, the only problem was they worked without being payed and sometimes used for sex (though it is better to marry them)

Mar 11, 2016 9:39 AM

#148