| I know this is going to be quite a debatable topic. However, after having all my disappointments with the recent anime series(Which I gave them up after only the first 2 or 3 eps), I can’t help to bring up this issue and point out what’s Wrong with modern Japanese animation industry. Below is some screenshots from the old classic anime: Now take a look at this several lists of anime series being produced nowadays: The pictures speak for itself. Today’s anime in general looks really flat and less detailed compares to the old series. And this whole modern “Moe blob” Desu-style bland-looking artwork is just getting tiresome to me :( . Every characters from one series seem to look identical with each others from another series and they have no feeling of individual personalities at all! Is Japanese animation actually going downhill? |
| Well I can tell it's not fair to only use that picture for modern animation. But I believe that the art is just evolving as people like it, and as the mangaka want, if people loved that old art, they would have kept using it. |
     Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
| New art is better. Moe > old school. |
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| The pictures do speak for themselves. The old art is terrible. |
| Uh,no. |
| My Devianart Oh & Space Brothers is still the best anime ever,in my opinion.Even when competing with Attack on Titan. |
| Those are bad examples. There's much more variety in newer anime style then shown in those. Besides, most of those are light novel covers that are being compared to animation. Fair? Not really. Examples: K-On! Characters Durarara!!'s - Very similar. Yes. Angel Beats! - Madoka Magica - No quality intended in either. It's clearly going downhill. Obvious recycles are hinted in these. Yeah. While there are lots of look alikes, the modern day still has a ton of quality and variety. You're just looking at a lot of the wrong things. |
ihateeveryoneSep 4, 2012 8:56 PM
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| I find both styles of the visuals have artistic beauty. It is simply a shifted aesthetic from one era to the next. To use a word like "declined" for one aspect of a whole body of work that is constantly evolving just makes for highly subjective discussion. Not that that's a bad thing. It's all aesthetic in the end. One may find it declining, since that one has a preference for the "older" styles. The other may prefer newer trends. As for me, my first statement (at the top!) is where I stand. :) |
| I want to state clearly that I don't meant to offend those who like today's stuff more than the olds, I respect their opinions. It just seem to me that ever since they abandon the traditional hand-drawn cel to the mass production computer-made CG/digital animations everything started to look "cheap" in my eyes. |
| Not this topic again. Seriously OP, the art quality is subjective and you're just cherrypicking. |
| Honestly I love the more classic, "older" art styles. I love all the details in the faces and everything, or even if it's not as detailed I still love it... the face shapes, colors, almost-grainy-look. But I don't find fault with the newer art just because noses, eyes, and hair aren't as defined. Newer art and animation is, simply said, visually aesthetic. I personally don't care for moe, but the animation is so clear fluid that I like the new stuff anyway. So I wouldn't say it's going downhill at all. It's just..evolving. And today's art is a little reminiscent of the 70s art, so have faith that cycles will repeat themselves and hopefully something like the 80s and 90s will come around again. |
EmmrysSep 4, 2012 8:51 PM
| if anything's wrong with the Japanese industry it's definitley NOT the art |
| I'm just a big visual novel fan but have also watched quite a bit of anime and played a bunch of games. Avatar is Mashiro from Making*Lovers and Kotori from Rewrite. |
| ehhh I personally prefer the new art. |
| "Our everyday lives may, in fact, be a series of miracles." - Nichijou |
Plusme said: It just seem to me that ever since they abandon the traditional hand-drawn cel to the mass production computer-made CG/digital animations everything started to look "cheap" in my eyes. Ok, your elaboration helped me understand you more. It is still highly subjective, but I understand where you are coming from now. That is much better than just picking pictures and pitting them against each other. :P I agree with your thought - slightly. But I relentlessly prescribe to the belief that both styles (more like trends) have artistic merit that is beautiful in some way. |
| I agree, art style is subjective, a lot of people enjoy the oldschool hand-drawn style compared to the newer digital style. A lot more work and effort went into drawing anime back in the day and there was a lot of leg-work involved, moving cels to different locations and what not. I'm one of those rare people that prefer the oldschool art better than the new style. If you want to get an idea of what people went through to make an anime back in the day watch the last episode of Golden Boy, it really made me appreciate oldschool anime a lot. I think one thing can be said for sure though, in general the DETAIL OF CHARACTER DESIGNS have declined. There are less lines and shadows in the face hair and eyes compared to before. There are some examples of detailed character designs in modern day anime though. Stuff like Redline, Zetman and Mardock Scramble to some degree. There is always at least a small amount of anime being made that appeal to niche preferences, you just have to look. |
 "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
| It's not better, it's not worse, it's different. |
やがて気づく本当の気持ちは そして 人間が大好きでした |
Plusme said: It just seem to me that ever since they abandon the traditional hand-drawn cel to the mass production computer-made CG/digital animations everything started to look "cheap" in my eyes. I will always prefer hand-drawn, but I wouldn't say the art quality today has declined. It's changed. Some people like it, some people don't. I don't, but I still don't necessarily think the art is bad. It's just not what I want to see in anime. |
bottosai-01 said: A lot more work and effort went into drawing anime back in the day and there was a lot of leg-work involved, moving cels to different locations and what not. I'm one of those rare people that prefer the oldschool art better than the new style. If you want to get an idea of what people went through to make an anime back in the day watch the last episode of Golden Boy, it really made me appreciate oldschool anime a lot. I think Animation Runner Kuromi demonstrates that leg-work/manual effort of the studios. I know you mention Golden Boy as a recommendation for one to see the fruits of the studios' labors (which is completely different from my recommendation), but AKR portrays what these studios do in a slice of life way. I think it fits this topic quite well. :) |
I really like old animation, it was so quality But srsly. I like both arts. and in my opinion it's not that the quality has declined, is more like that's the kind of art that people nowadays like. And I personally think that not all modern art looks like the one in that picture. it has variety too. |
| TBH, the light novel cover picture I posted above actually has "better" artwork if you compare it to the average anime series that's being aired in Japan right now. Another thing I noticed is that that human "anatomy" in today anime is overstyled and generally look bad in my eye. The 80s anime girls with divine hair, color shadings and body curves :)) Compare to todays stuff the body proportions are just awkward :( |
Uberchu said: Not this topic again. Seriously OP, the art quality is subjective and you're just cherrypicking. |
uneksia said: I really like old animation, it was so quality i lol'd uneksia said: A lot of old Anime is ugly imo. |
NEETs (No Employment Education Training) are the least desirable people anybody would want to hire and yet they are the first choice to become moderators/admins around the internet. They have yet to have established a sense of responsibility or role in society and many are plain leeches (with minor exceptions). They are given "authority" to police sections of the internet with the powers of The Judge, Jury, and Executioner. Isn't that weird? -Migrating to another site- Update 11/9/2016 - Inactive Over a Year. Logged in to laugh at elections. |
| Old art is good, I like it over some new stuff, but at least choose a better representation fro modern anime. A buch of magazine covers don't help much. Not all anime girls are "moe blobs". Btw, you should do one for guys too. |
BatoKusanagiSep 5, 2012 12:20 AM
on 
| I know everyone already have said this but the examples shown in the beginning cannot justify the mass production of anime today and also not every production of anime in the past. Alot of anime created today have loads of details put into them, a great example of that is 5 Centimeters per second and Angel Beats. In my opinion I love the old anime style and I appreciate the details in them, but me personally have a very hard time to watch older anime just because I've gotten used to the later animation. From the procuders point of view it's a matter of pleasing the biggest audience possible and I think they're doing a pretty good job. With that being said, I still hate when they change animation styles in the middle of a longer ongoing anime, for instance One Piece or Naruto but I'm getting used to it after a few weeks. |
| ''The earth is not just another planet. It contains 111 kings, 7000 geographers, 900000 businessman, 7,5 million drunkards, 311 million egotists, in other words about two billion grownups.'' - From the book Le Petit Prince by Antoine de Saint-Exupery |
| Yes, in a way. There used to be more movie and OVA productions that had art on par with manga in detail. Unfortunately, there was no way to keep up that kind of quality- not then and certainly not now, so many ended up as just mere showcase works. TV-productions are a bit more uneven, but there was some great technical detail in the end cel-era anime. Also I've seen some interesting choices in background art in 70s anime for example, which sometimes looked authentically hand painted (and probably was). There is a certain creative appeal to that, which isn't captured by aiming to be photorealistic. Anyway, times have changed, and they will likely change again. I just hope modern animation fans won't start bitching about good old times when more anime will go 3d cgi. |
| Everyone has their own opinions and i think the you chose some unfair examples. |
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| There's something about the 90s art that I like.. like it looked more real or something but I don't really care much about art anyway. |
| Newer animation actually looks good for me. I think the reason you're feeling that art quality is degrading is because it is moving farther from being realistic? They're removing the shadows and lines on the face... IMO anime should not be compared to real life. |
| The short answer is no. The longer answer is that 'quality' of any art has never quite 'declined' unless it is a specific golden age. (i.e. Beethoven in Classical/whatever you call his era) Also, 'flat' faces aren't necessarily bad, that is subjective. I only see more 'detail' in those images as scarring or lighting. Unfortunately more isn't better. I looked at the top 5-1 LOGH (since it is old) characters: Gintoki Sakata Edward Elric Kurisu Makise Nagisa Furukawa All of the faces have nearly nothing, but I find them okay looking. It's not like the faces require extensive detailing, which in most cases does not help in defining the character at all(i.e. making it unique purely on visual characteristics) Also, only Edward has any shadows due to his hair, the rest have little. The most distinctive difference in art lies in the eyes. Going down to 10, skipping Rurouni which is 1999, Kyon C.C. Saber Again, nothing on the faces. Eyes totally different. There's no a lot you can say about the art other than how it defines the character: Gintoki has a distinct black/white uniform Edward Elric has a metal arm Kurisu relies more on uniform, eye, and in general demeanour Nagisa has nothing quite distinct, though if you see KyoAni art you'd probably recognise brown hair, brown eyes, ahoge, although she becomes more like her mother as she ages Kyon has uniform, and generally Suzumiya is more distinctive C.C. has long, mostly straight green hair. Also if required Code Geass logos can be drawn in. Saber has armour(or blue dress), sword(Excalibur, not Caliburn, not anything else either. This is most easily seen through the Cross Guard) and (generally) short blonde hair. Unfortunately I do not find how your examples help define the characters. Lighting here and there is not going to help at all. What is factual, however, is this: 1) Nvidia released GTX 690 on 29 April 2012. Quite clearly its specs destroy anything not running GK104 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_600_Series For the real long list, you can see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units 2) In 2005, we finally saw the term 'HD Ready' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_ready Today the general television is fatter than a human's width. And due to more powerful GPUs(as above), wider monitor(s) and higher monitor resolutions as well. 3) Theoretically higher resolutions are to be expected barring prohibitive costs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution So no, art declining in quality doesn't sound quite right. |
 「みんながいるからだ。」 － 棗鈴 |
| Art? Maybe Animation? Absolutely not The artstyles are different but it's not any worse.  |
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| I like old art much more than today's plastic crap. |
| Yes it has. |
 "Your sight, my delight. Will you marry me?" |
Ninius said: I like old art much more than today's plastic crap.  |
|
Zmffkskem said: The short answer is no. The longer answer is that 'quality' of any art has never quite 'declined' unless it is a specific golden age. (i.e. Beethoven in Classical/whatever you call his era) Also, 'flat' faces aren't necessarily bad, that is subjective. I only see more 'detail' in those images as scarring or lighting. Unfortunately more isn't better. I looked at the top 5-1 LOGH (since it is old) characters: Gintoki Sakata Edward Elric Kurisu Makise Nagisa Furukawa All of the faces have nearly nothing, but I find them okay looking. It's not like the faces require extensive detailing, which in most cases does not help in defining the character at all(i.e. making it unique purely on visual characteristics) Also, only Edward has any shadows due to his hair, the rest have little. The most distinctive difference in art lies in the eyes. Going down to 10, skipping Rurouni which is 1999, Kyon C.C. Saber Again, nothing on the faces. Eyes totally different. There's no a lot you can say about the art other than how it defines the character: Gintoki has a distinct black/white uniform Edward Elric has a metal arm Kurisu relies more on uniform, eye, and in general demeanour Nagisa has nothing quite distinct, though if you see KyoAni art you'd probably recognise brown hair, brown eyes, ahoge, although she becomes more like her mother as she ages Kyon has uniform, and generally Suzumiya is more distinctive C.C. has long, mostly straight green hair. Also if required Code Geass logos can be drawn in. Saber has armour(or blue dress), sword(Excalibur, not Caliburn, not anything else either. This is most easily seen through the Cross Guard) and (generally) short blonde hair. Unfortunately I do not find how your examples help define the characters. Lighting here and there is not going to help at all. I understand you are implying that intensive colour shadings, lighting and highly defined facial features aren't necessary to make a “good” looking art. Well, I respect your opinion for this. However this is not the only thing that bother me about the modern anime. Today’s anime character design is all cookie-cutter style and they all look similar and Very amateurish drawn. Also there’s no sense of anatomy in today’s anime at all. (Read my previous post and a video I posted) Another problem is that not only today’s anime were not hand-drawn anymore, they’re not being made in Japan which lead to this whole out-sourcing quality decline. But I think the BIGGIST problem is that younger generation Japanese manga/anime artists are just not as talented as the older ones. Instead, they spawned from this whole Doujinshi community where they copy-pasting other people’s artworks just like in Deviantart. Rather than actually learning anatomy and create their own styles. Back in the old days we have Haruhiko Mikimoto, Toshihiro Hirano, Yoshikazu Yasuhiko and the list go on. All have their own distinct styles and refinements. They did not just scribble those spider-limbed, off-modeled “moe” looking teenagers which is just about 99% of anime artist is doing right now. |
PlusmeDec 21, 2012 3:32 AM
Ninius said: I like old art much more than today's plastic crap. this! |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the General Forum Guidelines. |
| Oh, please. Another one of those threads that make sweeping statements that just reeks of ignorance or patent denial of animation advances in favor of nostalgic preference. Look harder. Actually, you don't even need to break a sweat. If you're looking at anime backgrounds, very few old animations can compare with the current crop -Makoto Shinkai's works to name just one. Even a lot of moeblob series have beautiful bg compared to old ones. The computer is capable of rendering them to a stunning degree. As for your sample of beauties. That's a matter of taste. And nothing is wrong with that. Saying that your beauties are better looking than the current crop is just not true. I will not trade anyone of those you posted for Kusanagi, Hamyuts Meseta and a host of others. What you prefer is fine but it doesn't mean that 'the art "quality" of anime today declined significantly compare to the old classic.' Faarrr from it. |
TsukikageRan said: Oh, please. Another one of those threads that make sweeping statements that just reeks of ignorance or patent denial of animation advances in favor of nostalgic preference. This. Again, I don't mean to be rude but the OP just seems biased towards older styles more than anything else. Also: Plusme said: Today’s anime character design is all cookie-cutter style and they all look similar and Very amateurish drawn. Lio would like to have a word with you: |
| God old art is so ugly. New art > |
| Agreed that you used bad examples. If you look thoroughly around new anime, you'll see there is still some art style diversity (thank god) but overall the quality has skyrocketed. |
  |
| Well, as some other people already said, the comparison that OP makes is too biased. You are not going to get the same impression by comparing frames than by comparing covers. The detail put in shades and expressions is not the same, for the single reason that a cover requires a specific colour palette and simple expressions of the characters to create a mood in the audience of how is the anime like. Maybe the face traits have been simplified or "cartoonized" in many cases, but I doubt this is a real sign of quality decline. In many cases, it is just a stylistic approach to the moe trend. In other cases, it is really because the drawing is easier. But comparing the older and the newer in the OP the only thing that makes a difference is that the first ones do actually have a nose, which is, uh, a detail. Satoshi Kon drew way more detailed faces than any example put in there (just watch Paranoia Agent). On the backgrounds. I think some examples have already been commented, for example Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica and the works by Makoto Shinkai, but I would also put the example of Ghibli stuff (Spirited away, Howl's moving castle, Arrietty), The disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya (which as well as having at times a little awkward CGI animation (which is not anything weird in anime), has some awesome background design), the Aria saga (judging from the first season and some frames I have seen in this forum of the other two)... And not to mention how clean some of these shows look. And no, it's not just a matter of how new they are. Believing that what they do at -for example- Kyoto Animation is anything easy is a great misconception. I don't say that the new ones are better than the old ones either. Of course the new shows have their cons. For example, the trend to rely on one artstyle or the overuse of light colouring. But that was an unfair, and very biased, comparison. |
| Hey guys look I can play the cherry picking game too! LOL Newer anime Older anime Huuuuur older anime looks like shit! LOL |
| It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die. |
| @ Jigero You just made me laugh. Thanks, bro. That's enough to tide me over any shit I may encounter today. |
| I don't know guys Brosander doesn't really look... Mainstream? If that's the correct word. And Kaiji has the most unorthodox style ever And Tenma looks pissed Anyways, we shouldn't judge everything based on the majority i guess, the spam. It was a lot of shit in the 80s and 90s too, I suppose we just glorify it to the extreme based on nostalgia and memories, leaving the shit out. In its core though, this question can only be answered subjectively: thus my answer is no... I find it ignorant to say otherwise. |
 |
 You can cherrypick the images you want from any era and use them to support whichever point of view you like, but in the end, it comes down to your personal preference. The style preferred by one person may be more prevalent in a certain era, but that certainly doesn't mean that the general quality of art from another era is worse. |
| I wouldn't say it has declined i would just say different. But then again I'm not bothered so much about art styles, I'll watch anything if its good. |
| Does anyone else need a doctor to confirm that someone without a head is dead? |
TotalPotato said: You can cherrypick the images you want from any era and use them to support whichever point of view you like, but in the end, it comes down to your personal preference. The style preferred by one person may be more prevalent in a certain era, but that certainly doesn't mean that the general quality of art from another era is worse. Liked the reference :D |
Plusme said: Below is some screenshots from the old classic anime: Am I the only one, who thinks that all examples, but second, look the same? Especially first and third - just different hairstyles, eyes colour and skin complexion? |
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