| They got rid of the Gold Standard so they can literally print money out of thin air and can kill everyone on the Earth so no one is gonna stop using their money cause if they do they get bayonet'd in the ass so they can infinitely print money for food. They can like pay everyone else for what they need. |
Mao said: If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart! |
| > they can literally print money out of thin air USD is a stable currency, hiking interest rates lead people to save instead of borrowing, lowering demand to keep inflation in control. > and can kill everyone on the Earth Unlikely. > they can infinitely print money for food. Printing money doesn't increase availability of food. > They can like pay everyone else for what they need. Untrue. |
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| People work because they need a source of income...not because their work is necessarily useful or beneficial.... |
| im aware op is shitposting for the memes but i still wish theyd take an econ 101 course. |
Reply to cody
im aware op is shitposting for the memes but i still wish theyd take an econ 101 course.
| @cody Money only has worth because everyone says it does. If that guy telling you that a piece of paper has worth has enough nukes to blow up the Earth then that piece of paper has worth. @Auron_ Every nation on Earth pays migrants in other nations to pick their food, and the war in Ukraine is literally the USA giving Ukraine money to kill Russians. The USA already pays other nations for food. The USA is already paying people with money printed out of thin air for food and defense. |
Mao said: If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart! |
| Because if I dont I will die. It's a very simple cause and effect. |
  ♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
| yep, that's how value works. humans have brains capable of dealing in abstracts lol. vasipi4946 said: do you think the value of gold was not enforced?..If that guy telling you that a piece of paper has worth has enough nukes to blow up the Earth then that piece of paper has worth. marx was criticizing comparing horses and shoes or some other object back in the 1800s. currency is always abstracted from reality, definitionally. |
| "Why do Americans work" To make it great again. |
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
| Even an atheist like me is influenced by the protestant work ethic. |
| That's not how the exchange of currency work, if they would print out hell of the money, the stability of USD would just flow down as everyone would have it so much, that it would be comparable to Pesos, Tira or Rubels, the value of Dollar would be just crap. I am not that good with economics so you should need to read more about it. |
Reply to Freshell
Even an atheist like me is influenced by the protestant work ethic.
| @Freshell Jewish work ethic >>> 😎 What was that finding that I'm thinking of, where Jewish-Americans' achievements were higher than what would have been expected looking at average IQ/SAT scores? Clearly they have the best study/work ethic :) @vasipi4946 > Every nation on Earth pays migrants in other nations to pick their food based and mutually beneficial > war in Ukraine is literally the USA giving Ukraine money to kill Russians defend sovereignity based > The USA already pays other nations for food not nearly as much as what you are asking it should do for its domestic population. Here is total annual foreign aid per capita of countries, not just by US but by anyone period. Look at Africa, 14$ per person, 25$ per person. But "hurr US is feeding everyone but Americans" lmao https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/aid-received-per-capita > The USA is already paying people with money printed out of thin air for food and defense Here is the share of what they're sending Ukraine, it's not all in cash, mostly military aid, of weapons and equipment or training, none of which you can eat. And if some are decommissioned from service those don't cost you anything either https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts It's a good cause, it's also like 0.32% of US's GDP. Orders of magnitude smaller than other budgetary spendings. It's a bargain given how it undermines a foreign adversary + aids the sovereignity of nations and affirms the international norms that one doesn't just take land anymore. |
Auron_May 6, 12:30 PM
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Reply to Auron_
@Freshell
Jewish work ethic >>> 😎
What was that finding that I'm thinking of, where Jewish-Americans' achievements were higher than what would have been expected looking at average IQ/SAT scores? Clearly they have the best study/work ethic :)
@vasipi4946
> Every nation on Earth pays migrants in other nations to pick their food
based and mutually beneficial
> war in Ukraine is literally the USA giving Ukraine money to kill Russians defend sovereignity
based
> The USA already pays other nations for food
not nearly as much as what you are asking it should do for its domestic population.
Here is total annual foreign aid per capita of countries, not just by US but by anyone period. Look at Africa, 14$ per person, 25$ per person. But "hurr US is feeding everyone but Americans" lmao
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/aid-received-per-capita
> The USA is already paying people with money printed out of thin air for food and defense
Here is the share of what they're sending Ukraine, it's not all in cash, mostly military aid, of weapons and equipment or training, none of which you can eat. And if some are decommissioned from service those don't cost you anything either
https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts
It's a good cause, it's also like 0.32% of US's GDP. Orders of magnitude smaller than other budgetary spendings. It's a bargain given how it undermines a foreign adversary + aids the sovereignity of nations and affirms the international norms that one doesn't just take land anymore.
Jewish work ethic >>> 😎
What was that finding that I'm thinking of, where Jewish-Americans' achievements were higher than what would have been expected looking at average IQ/SAT scores? Clearly they have the best study/work ethic :)
@vasipi4946
> Every nation on Earth pays migrants in other nations to pick their food
based and mutually beneficial
> war in Ukraine is literally the USA giving Ukraine money to kill Russians defend sovereignity
based
> The USA already pays other nations for food
not nearly as much as what you are asking it should do for its domestic population.
Here is total annual foreign aid per capita of countries, not just by US but by anyone period. Look at Africa, 14$ per person, 25$ per person. But "hurr US is feeding everyone but Americans" lmao
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/aid-received-per-capita
> The USA is already paying people with money printed out of thin air for food and defense
Here is the share of what they're sending Ukraine, it's not all in cash, mostly military aid, of weapons and equipment or training, none of which you can eat. And if some are decommissioned from service those don't cost you anything either
https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts
It's a good cause, it's also like 0.32% of US's GDP. Orders of magnitude smaller than other budgetary spendings. It's a bargain given how it undermines a foreign adversary + aids the sovereignity of nations and affirms the international norms that one doesn't just take land anymore.
Auron_ said: @Freshell Jewish work ethic >>> 😎 What was that finding that I'm thinking of, where Jewish-Americans' achievements were higher than what would have been expected looking at average IQ/SAT scores? Clearly they have the best study/work ethic :) This is indeed the case. But as someone who knows Jewish people personally, I can assure you I only have the protestant work ethic. They know how to grind. |
| Medical care, insurance, and rent in America is expensive enough to keep people in perpetual states of debt. Fail to do pay them then you go homeless likely leading to working in prison for life. Not to mention food prices continue to rise. |
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| If you just print money the value of said money is gonna nosedive. They work to be able to pay for stuff, like the vast majority of people in the world. |
| OP is asking dumb questions when he is bored, it seems... |
| America is just like a slave corp. working like Japan & Korea |
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| why work at all? i dont like work 😐 |
^ Indeed. Just quit your job and relax. :P |
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| isnt the value of money tied with scarcity? the more scarce money is the higher value it has? so if you print infinite money then the value of money will be zero |
Reply to deg
isnt the value of money tied with scarcity? the more scarce money is the higher value it has? so if you print infinite money then the value of money will be zero
| @deg If the basic income of the unemployed majority is set at grotesquely decedent, it will be reproductive rights that would be the deciding factor. This is because without some seriously unlikely science-magic, there's going to be a limit on just how many people earth can actually sustain and even in a post-scarcity utopia this would motivate people to be over others class-wise. |
vasipi4946May 7, 9:44 AM
Mao said: If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart! |
| People work because they need the money to survive... |
| For the reason that which is because the reason in and of itself being the thing to which it occurs and it is so it is what it is. |
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| This isn't V For Vendetta, you obey the system. Simple as. |
| Many interesting points and perspectives have been presented in this thread. I would like everyone to also focus on one thing that is related to the question asked in the original post, but is not exactly about the same thing. Not entirely, at least. Why work at all, when it makes you sad and you feel exploited by the system? Why some treat pursuing mere illusions of success, that mostly mean to satisfy society funded on lies, not the person who is working? Why seek it and treat as a virtue? People seem to prefer to not choose reality/ They refuse to pick up the easier and more wholesome way of life. Again, why? Why not... simply... embrace the monke?  |
| Why are they overworked everyday? Because of Bidenomics and other mishandling of economy by the government. America is proof that democracy only works if the people are intelligent. When xennials were old enough to vote in 2004, they gave zero Fs about Election Day, got more George Bush and had to work overtime, even at this very day. The joke's on them for not paying attention and now all those long hours they spent at work is moot for whole chicken. Overworked idiots have to take a closer look at their wallets in disappointment as if chicken were luxurious like lobster. Should have paid more attention to math and foreign languages (my Mandarin is around fifth grade level now; able to learn everyday Japanese and Mandarin side to side) so they can earn better than chump change. They thought wrong assuming that English and mediocre math could make them shine in the future. Too bad the future is now and what losers they are. Should have forgotten about college and just read lots more books anyway. A guy told me that college could teach me Japanese, but I chose books anyway. So yeah! Labor in America is terrible. Terrible as long as other countries and AI are able to swipe their jobs so effortlessly. Forcing Americans to work harder for chicken, rent or necessities. |
| This is obviously a shitpost thread, but to anyone who is genuinely confused, there is a difference between wealth and money. New wealth is created due to things like technological innovation, and capital investment to make the allocation of resources cheaper and more efficient - thus raising the standard of living for everyone in the process. The reason why the government cannot make all of us richer by just printing more money is because the government is not a producer - it gains it's revenue through taxation, in other words, everything they do is at the expense of wealth that is created in the economy. Resources must be sacrificed to further the purposes of the state. When the state needs more money, it just prints it out of thin air to avoid the backlash of raising taxes, which creates inflation. Education is bliss |
DreamWindowMay 13, 1:04 AM
 This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
Freshell said: Even an atheist like me is influenced by the protestant work ethic. Max Weber huh. Auron_ said: Jewish work ethic >>> 😎 What was that finding that I'm thinking of, where Jewish-Americans' achievements were higher than what would have been expected looking at average IQ/SAT scores? Clearly they have the best study/work ethic :) In case of both Protestants and Jews it was possibly higher literacy rates as a big factor. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/the-chosen-few-a-new-explanati https://epub.ub.uni-muenchen.de/1366/1/weberLMU.pdf |
| The same reason why other people work...to earn money. To afford things. To survive in industrial civilization. Duh. |
Reply to traed
Freshell said:
Even an atheist like me is influenced by the protestant work ethic.
Even an atheist like me is influenced by the protestant work ethic.
Max Weber huh.
Auron_ said:
Jewish work ethic >>> 😎
What was that finding that I'm thinking of, where Jewish-Americans' achievements were higher than what would have been expected looking at average IQ/SAT scores? Clearly they have the best study/work ethic :)
Jewish work ethic >>> 😎
What was that finding that I'm thinking of, where Jewish-Americans' achievements were higher than what would have been expected looking at average IQ/SAT scores? Clearly they have the best study/work ethic :)
In case of both Protestants and Jews it was possibly higher literacy rates as a big factor.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/the-chosen-few-a-new-explanati
https://epub.ub.uni-muenchen.de/1366/1/weberLMU.pdf
traed said: Max Weber huh. That was my joke reference, yep! traed said: In case of both Protestants and Jews it was possibly higher literacy rates as a big factor. I agree that the early success of Protestant countries probably had more to do with literacy rates. Protestantism held that people should read the Bible themselves to come to their own personal conclusions about God, which creates an incentive to learn to read. There's some study that looked at economic divergences between regions that became Protestant versus Catholic around the reformation along with literacy rates, but I don't have that on hand. Aura is referencing that some subpopulations perform better than what you would predict based on average IQ score from regressions. Asian Americans (not just East Asians by the way) are one example, Jewish Americans are another. I don't think the early literacy history explains current over performance. |
FreshellMay 13, 10:43 AM
| Because we've been fooled into thinking work will make us free WAKE UP PEOPLE BREAK THE CHAINS THAT BIND YOU EMBRACE NO WORK |
| Reason why USD is used as global reserve currency is because the dollar is backed by the overall strength of the American economy. If they just start printing money out of thin air, the other countries are not dumb, they will figure out that America is fucking them over. In order for the USD to maintain its power the American people MUST work. |
 00cactus |
| The United States of Hikikomorism. |
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| The work is ultimately pointless because we get NTHE within the next 20 to 30 years max. |
Freshell said: I agree that the early success of Protestant countries probably had more to do with literacy rates. Protestantism held that people should read the Bible themselves to come to their own personal conclusions about God, which creates an incentive to learn to read. There's some study that looked at economic divergences between regions that became Protestant versus Catholic around the reformation along with literacy rates, but I don't have that on hand. Aura is referencing that some subpopulations perform better than what you would predict based on average IQ score from regressions. Asian Americans (not just East Asians by the way) are one example, Jewish Americans are another. I don't think the early literacy history explains current over performance. Well there is other factors like how early on many were involved in finance and business and they basically self vetted out the poor. If you were spiritual but didn't have much money, you became a Christian or joined one of the other popular groups that didn't require an expensive Jewish education. What good is a son who can read the Torah if you just want him to help harvest pomegranates? So economics dictated who stayed and who strayed. Contrary to common belief, Botticini and Eckstein write, Jews weren't forced into money lending because they were forced out of guilds. Under Muslim and Christian rule alike, Jews went into finance centuries before the guilds were even founded. In other words, Jews chose careers in finance the same way the best and the brightest in modern American culture head for Wall Street and business school. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-did-jews-become-money_b_4046093 Under Jewish law it is forbidden to charge interest to a practicing Jew or for a Jew to take a loan from a Jew charging interest. So this means they are less likely to be part of predatory loan practices when taking loans. They can get interest free loans. Pair this with usual inheritance of wealth. It's not like data on finances they do DNA tests or anything so a lot of Ashkenazi Jews are not counted for because they came from a family that wasnt practicing Jew and don't know they have that background which makes sense since Jews are just mostly Europeans by blood not another race. I recall hearing of how Jewish immigrants in America rose out of poverty but i can't find the source right now. To my recall it was because of the businesses they became involved in and they set up a sort of aid program to help fellow Jews. |
Reply to traed
Freshell said:
I agree that the early success of Protestant countries probably had more to do with literacy rates. Protestantism held that people should read the Bible themselves to come to their own personal conclusions about God, which creates an incentive to learn to read. There's some study that looked at economic divergences between regions that became Protestant versus Catholic around the reformation along with literacy rates, but I don't have that on hand.
Aura is referencing that some subpopulations perform better than what you would predict based on average IQ score from regressions. Asian Americans (not just East Asians by the way) are one example, Jewish Americans are another. I don't think the early literacy history explains current over performance.
I agree that the early success of Protestant countries probably had more to do with literacy rates. Protestantism held that people should read the Bible themselves to come to their own personal conclusions about God, which creates an incentive to learn to read. There's some study that looked at economic divergences between regions that became Protestant versus Catholic around the reformation along with literacy rates, but I don't have that on hand.
Aura is referencing that some subpopulations perform better than what you would predict based on average IQ score from regressions. Asian Americans (not just East Asians by the way) are one example, Jewish Americans are another. I don't think the early literacy history explains current over performance.
Well there is other factors like how early on many were involved in finance and business and they basically self vetted out the poor.
If you were spiritual but didn't have much money, you became a Christian or joined one of the other popular groups that didn't require an expensive Jewish education. What good is a son who can read the Torah if you just want him to help harvest pomegranates? So economics dictated who stayed and who strayed.
Contrary to common belief, Botticini and Eckstein write, Jews weren't forced into money lending because they were forced out of guilds. Under Muslim and Christian rule alike, Jews went into finance centuries before the guilds were even founded. In other words, Jews chose careers in finance the same way the best and the brightest in modern American culture head for Wall Street and business school.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-did-jews-become-money_b_4046093
Under Jewish law it is forbidden to charge interest to a practicing Jew or for a Jew to take a loan from a Jew charging interest. So this means they are less likely to be part of predatory loan practices when taking loans. They can get interest free loans.
Pair this with usual inheritance of wealth. It's not like data on finances they do DNA tests or anything so a lot of Ashkenazi Jews are not counted for because they came from a family that wasnt practicing Jew and don't know they have that background which makes sense since Jews are just mostly Europeans by blood not another race.
I recall hearing of how Jewish immigrants in America rose out of poverty but i can't find the source right now. To my recall it was because of the businesses they became involved in and they set up a sort of aid program to help fellow Jews.
| @traed I think the crux of the argument of the self-selection effect of poor Jews converting to Christiantiy because of the expensive education needs a lot more corraboration, and this thesis has been criticized for lacking in scholarly rigor. Writing in GeneWatch, Diana Muir and Paul Appelbaum question whether the late Roman era "selection event" in which Botticini and Eckstein claim that Jews who chose not to educate their children converted to Christianity "ever occurred," describing Botticini and Eckstein's reliance on population numbers not supported by the sources they cite, or by scholarship.[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chosen_Few_(book) Contrary to common belief, Botticini and Eckstein write, Jews weren't forced into money lending because they were forced out of guilds. Under Muslim and Christian rule alike, Jews went into finance centuries before the guilds were even founded. In other words, Jews chose careers in finance the same way the best and the brightest in modern American culture head for Wall Street and business school. That there were some Jewish people in finance prior to forming of trade guilds (which they're excluded from) that teach crafts does not show that it was completely willing, exclusion from trade guilds is another push factor that exacarbates the overrepresentation in finance. Also it fails to mention that Jews were not allowed to own land, which is yet another push factor. If you forbid many ways of income like owning land or artisanal skills a la trade guilds, but finance, of course finance overrepresentation will increase. Under Jewish law it is forbidden to charge interest to a practicing Jew or for a Jew to take a loan from a Jew charging interest. So this means they are less likely to be part of predatory loan practices when taking loans. They can get interest free loans. This is true not just of Jewish law. In Christianity too, what was forbidden was usury/interest towards your fellow Christians, but not giving your fellow Christian an interest-free loan. The same as Jewish. It's not like data on finances they do DNA tests or anything so a lot of Ashkenazi Jews are not counted for because they came from a family that wasnt practicing Jew and don't know they have that background which makes sense since Jews are just mostly Europeans by blood not another race. This is obviously not true of Mizrahi Jews or Sephardic Jews, which I can only assume was a misspeak and you meant Ashkenazi Jews are mostly just Europeans by blood. But it is not even true of the Ashkenazi Jews, they have about half Middle East ancestry, out of which it is mostly Levantine. This lie that they're just Europeans is usually parroted by people to call into question Israel's right to exist. The estimated amount of accumulated EU gene flow varied across studies, with the most recent ones, employing genome-wide data, converging to a contribution of around 50% of the AJ ancestry [4, 7, 9]. ... ... Running RFMix on the AJ genomes with our EU and ME reference panels and summing up the lengths of all tracts assigned to each ancestry, the genome-wide ancestry was ≈53% EU and ≈47% ME, consistent with our previous estimate based on a smaller sequencing panel [9]. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5380316/ |
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| Don't forgot they are also trillions in debt. what a fucked up failed society. all their elites have their tongues up Israel's ass too its so absurd. |
| When you realize that people are wasting their entire lives working at meaningless jobs, you will realize that the whole American "Dream" is just a sham. Especially when you realize that NTHE is rapidly arriving. I hope you enjoy NTHE arriving because denying it will not make it go away... People that defend the system dont deserve any sympathy from me. They just deserve ridicule, which is why they are denying NTHE. |
Auron_ said: I think the crux of the argument of the self-selection effect of poor Jews converting to Christiantiy because of the expensive education needs a lot more corraboration, and this thesis has been criticized for lacking in scholarly rigor. Perhaps. It makes some logical sense though which is why I included it for lack of something more extensive. Auron_ said: That there were some Jewish people in finance prior to forming of trade guilds (which they're excluded from) that teach crafts does not show that it was completely willing, exclusion from trade guilds is another push factor that exacarbates the overrepresentation in finance. Also it fails to mention that Jews were not allowed to own land, which is yet another push factor. If you forbid many ways of income like owning land or artisanal skills a la trade guilds, but finance, of course finance overrepresentation will increase. I'm not sure how much it even matters if it was by choice or not since either explanation is fine. Not own land where? Auron_ said: This is true not just of Jewish law. In Christianity too, what was forbidden was usury/interest towards your fellow Christians, but not giving your fellow Christian an interest-free loan. The same as Jewish. But they do https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/interest-free-loans-in-judaism/ Compare that to this Christian site i came across this person says they just shouldnt charge interest if someone is poor, but poor is an arbitrary line and it doesnt specify religion of the recipient so the money isnt concentrated within their own community even if they followed this. https://www.biblemoneymatters.com/should-a-christian-lend-money-and-earn-interest/ I can't even find an explicitly state "Christian" loan organizations that do not charge interest only ones saying they are Christian charge interest but it's easy to look up "Jewish" ones with no interest such as https://www.jfla.org/ Auron_ said: This is obviously not true of Mizrahi Jews or Sephardic Jews, which I can only assume was a misspeak and you meant Ashkenazi Jews are mostly just Europeans by blood. But it is not even true of the Ashkenazi Jews, they have about half Middle East ancestry, out of which it is mostly Levantine. This lie that they're just Europeans is usually parroted by people to call into question Israel's right to exist. Aren't most of the Jews outside of Israel in developed countries Ashkenazi though? For example in the US Two-thirds of U.S. Jews say they are Ashkenazi; 3% describe themselves as Sephardic and 1% as Mizrahi, although an additional 6% identify with some mixture of these or other categories. (However, some of the 6% identify with unclear categories or do not specify their mixture. A total of 7% of the Jewish adults in the survey clearly identify as Sephardic or Mizrahi, either alone or in combination with other categories.) In addition, 17% say these labels either do not apply to them or that they are just Jewish, while 8% say they follow some other set of Jewish customs, indicate that they are unsure (5%) or otherwise did not answer the question (2%). https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/05/11/race-ethnicity-heritage-and-immigration-among-u-s-jews/ It's not just an ethnic group it's an ethno-religious group. The origins of Ashkenazi Jews remain highly controversial. Like Judaism, mitochondrial DNA is passed along the maternal line. Its variation in the Ashkenazim is highly distinctive, with four major and numerous minor founders. However, due to their rarity in the general population, these founders have been difficult to trace to a source. Here we show that all four major founders, ~40% of Ashkenazi mtDNA variation, have ancestry in prehistoric Europe, rather than the Near East or Caucasus. Furthermore, most of the remaining minor founders share a similar deep European ancestry. Thus the great majority of Ashkenazi maternal lineages were not brought from the Levant, as commonly supposed, nor recruited in the Caucasus, as sometimes suggested, but assimilated within Europe. These results point to a significant role for the conversion of women in the formation of Ashkenazi communities, and provide the foundation for a detailed reconstruction of Ashkenazi genealogical history. https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543 |
traedMay 13, 5:01 PM
| Everyone defending the system is probably a shill or fed. |
| @traed I'm not sure how much it even matters if it was by choice or not since either explanation is fine. Not own land where? It matters I suppose in the narratives people sometimes build about Jewish people are usurers and so forth. When there were many restrictions and options were limited. On the other hand, central and east European rulers forbade the Jewish settlers from owning land, from serving as officers in the military, and from holding positions in state service unless they converted to Christianity (Catholicism, Orthodoxy, or, after the Reformation in the sixteenth century, one of the Protestant denominations https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/antisemitism-in-history-the-early-modern-era-1300-1800 But they do I didn't say they don't. I said that's true, and then added context that this is likewise true for Christians as well. They too forbid the lending at interest to fellow Christians, but it's allowed to lend interest-free. Just to include this is not a tenet specific to Judaism or some sort of colluding at play. Aren't most of the Jews outside of Israel in developed countries Ashkenazi though? For example in the US It's generally the case yes. An exception would be, most of the Jewish population in France is Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews. > The majority of French Jews in the 21st century are Sephardi and Mizrahi North African Jews, many of whom (or their parents) emigrated from former French colonies of North Africa after those countries gained independence in the 1950s and 1960s. The important point is even Ashkenazi Jews can trace about half their ancestry to Middle East. They're not just white people LARPing about being related to ancient Israelites. What you gave is not a genome wide study. Furthermore there is no denying European admixture obviously happened, the question is the degree, which seems to be about 50%. What I gave above is the converging findings of multiple genome wide studies. |
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Reply to omorashi
Don't forgot they are also trillions in debt. what a fucked up failed society. all their elites have their tongues up Israel's ass too its so absurd.
omorashi said: Don't forgot they are also trillions in debt. what a fucked up failed society. all their elites have their tongues up Israel's ass too its so absurd. Yet people still believe that the government is an efficient method of distributing resources.  |
This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
Auron_ said: It matters I suppose in the narratives people sometimes build about Jewish people are usurers and so forth. When there were many restrictions and options were limited. Maybe Auron_ said: I didn't say they don't. I said that's true, and then added context that this is likewise true for Christians as well. They too forbid the lending at interest to fellow Christians, but it's allowed to lend interest-free. Just to include this is not a tenet specific to Judaism or some sort of colluding at play. Oh, I was confused from sentence structure. I dont know im just finding sources saying not to charge interest to poor people rather than Christians in general. Like here I see a Christian credit union that charges interest and fees which is unlike what I find on places for Jews. So it it was ever a religious law it wasnt kept to among Christians for some reason it seems. https://www.mycccu.com/personal/loans/personal-loans/ Auron_ said: It's generally the case yes. An exception would be, most of the Jewish population in France is Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews. > The majority of French Jews in the 21st century are Sephardi and Mizrahi North African Jews, many of whom (or their parents) emigrated from former French colonies of North Africa after those countries gained independence in the 1950s and 1960s. The important point is even Ashkenazi Jews can trace about half their ancestry to Middle East. They're not just white people LARPing about being related to ancient Israelites. What you gave is not a genome wide study. Furthermore there is no denying European admixture obviously happened, the question is the degree, which seems to be about 50%. What I gave above is the converging findings of multiple genome wide studies. Oh I see. I was trying to see if there was exceptions but didnt know any in mind. Might be good to look at income for Jews in France compared to other groups in France then to see if they are or are not as relatively well off as Jews in other countries to get an indirect assumption of if there is a difference between Ashkenazi, Shepardic and Mizrahi. I can't find anything in English though. Some studies say Ashkenazis are 70% European so it's 50%-70%. The origins of early AJ, as well as the history of admixture events that have shaped their gene pool, are subject to debate (Data S1, section 1). Genetic evidence supports a mixed Middle Eastern (ME) and European (EU) ancestry in AJ. This is based on uniparental markers with origins in either region (Behar et al., 2006, Behar et al., 2017; Costa et al., 2013; Hammer et al., 2000, Hammer et al., 2009; Nebel et al., 2001), as well as autosomal studies showing that AJ have ancestry intermediate between ME and EU populations (Atzmon et al., 2010; Behar et al., 2010, Behar et al., 2013; Bray et al., 2010; Carmi et al., 2014a; Granot-Hershkovitz et al., 2018; Guha et al., 2012; Kopelman et al., 2020). These and other autosomal studies also showed that individuals with AJ ancestry are genetically distinguishable from those of other ancestries. Recent modeling suggested that most of the European ancestry in AJ is consistent with Southern European-related sources, and estimated the total proportion of European ancestry in AJ as 50%–70% (Carmi et al., 2014a; Xue et al., 2017; Yardumian and Schurr, 2019). The AJ population is overall highly genetically homogeneous, with no major ancestry differences based on present-day country of residence (Guha et al., 2012; Gusev et al., 2012; Kopelman et al., 2020). However, there are subtle average differences in ancestry between AJ with origins in Eastern vs. Western Europe (Behar et al., 2013; Gladstein and Hammer, 2019; Granot-Hershkovitz et al., 2018) (Data S1, section 1). https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(22)01378-2 Exact percentage doesnt matter the point was appearances aren't as unique for Ashkenazi Jews as they are for Black people and East Asians (well depending on admixture, not that race is genetic or anything just it acts as a rough proxy of phenotypes). So I was saying is if their family stopped identifying as Jews then further down the line these individuals would have no clue so they would be left out of these reports on ethnic groups financial status, thinking they are only European most likely. |
Reply to traed
Freshell said:
I agree that the early success of Protestant countries probably had more to do with literacy rates. Protestantism held that people should read the Bible themselves to come to their own personal conclusions about God, which creates an incentive to learn to read. There's some study that looked at economic divergences between regions that became Protestant versus Catholic around the reformation along with literacy rates, but I don't have that on hand.
Aura is referencing that some subpopulations perform better than what you would predict based on average IQ score from regressions. Asian Americans (not just East Asians by the way) are one example, Jewish Americans are another. I don't think the early literacy history explains current over performance.
I agree that the early success of Protestant countries probably had more to do with literacy rates. Protestantism held that people should read the Bible themselves to come to their own personal conclusions about God, which creates an incentive to learn to read. There's some study that looked at economic divergences between regions that became Protestant versus Catholic around the reformation along with literacy rates, but I don't have that on hand.
Aura is referencing that some subpopulations perform better than what you would predict based on average IQ score from regressions. Asian Americans (not just East Asians by the way) are one example, Jewish Americans are another. I don't think the early literacy history explains current over performance.
Well there is other factors like how early on many were involved in finance and business and they basically self vetted out the poor.
If you were spiritual but didn't have much money, you became a Christian or joined one of the other popular groups that didn't require an expensive Jewish education. What good is a son who can read the Torah if you just want him to help harvest pomegranates? So economics dictated who stayed and who strayed.
Contrary to common belief, Botticini and Eckstein write, Jews weren't forced into money lending because they were forced out of guilds. Under Muslim and Christian rule alike, Jews went into finance centuries before the guilds were even founded. In other words, Jews chose careers in finance the same way the best and the brightest in modern American culture head for Wall Street and business school.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-did-jews-become-money_b_4046093
Under Jewish law it is forbidden to charge interest to a practicing Jew or for a Jew to take a loan from a Jew charging interest. So this means they are less likely to be part of predatory loan practices when taking loans. They can get interest free loans.
Pair this with usual inheritance of wealth. It's not like data on finances they do DNA tests or anything so a lot of Ashkenazi Jews are not counted for because they came from a family that wasnt practicing Jew and don't know they have that background which makes sense since Jews are just mostly Europeans by blood not another race.
I recall hearing of how Jewish immigrants in America rose out of poverty but i can't find the source right now. To my recall it was because of the businesses they became involved in and they set up a sort of aid program to help fellow Jews.
traed said: Well there is other factors like how early on many were involved in finance and business and they basically self vetted out the poor. Auron_ said: I think the crux of the argument of the self-selection effect of poor Jews converting to Christiantiy because of the expensive education needs a lot more corraboration, and this thesis has been criticized for lacking in scholarly rigor. traed said: Perhaps. It makes some logical sense though which is why I included it for lack of something more extensive. I'll take this response as a concession that you lack strong evidence that this is the mechanism explaining Jewish American success. traed said: Under Jewish law it is forbidden to charge interest to a practicing Jew or for a Jew to take a loan from a Jew charging interest. So this means they are less likely to be part of predatory loan practices when taking loans. They can get interest free loans. What Aura is trying to point out to you that you don't seem to appreciate is that Jewish people were a heavily discriminated religious minority group. So even taking for granted that they had benefits of intergroup cooperation, this should be looked at within the background of being discriminated against by larger society. I think a big explanation for Jewish American success and Asian American success that exceeds what might be expected of their average IQs is that respective focus of their cultures on educational success. This is reflected by high degree attainment. |
 Have you met a continuously employed American IRL? Their job basically becomes their identity. With the long exploitative work hours/patterns and lack of statutory annual leave, the transformation is inevitable. |
| the official MAL hall of fame/cursed comments is now open for business - you are welcome to PM me any potential quotes to include |
Reply to Freshell
traed said:
Well there is other factors like how early on many were involved in finance and business and they basically self vetted out the poor.
Well there is other factors like how early on many were involved in finance and business and they basically self vetted out the poor.
Auron_ said:
I think the crux of the argument of the self-selection effect of poor Jews converting to Christiantiy because of the expensive education needs a lot more corraboration, and this thesis has been criticized for lacking in scholarly rigor.
I think the crux of the argument of the self-selection effect of poor Jews converting to Christiantiy because of the expensive education needs a lot more corraboration, and this thesis has been criticized for lacking in scholarly rigor.
traed said:
Perhaps. It makes some logical sense though which is why I included it for lack of something more extensive.
Perhaps. It makes some logical sense though which is why I included it for lack of something more extensive.
I'll take this response as a concession that you lack strong evidence that this is the mechanism explaining Jewish American success.
traed said:
Under Jewish law it is forbidden to charge interest to a practicing Jew or for a Jew to take a loan from a Jew charging interest. So this means they are less likely to be part of predatory loan practices when taking loans. They can get interest free loans.
Under Jewish law it is forbidden to charge interest to a practicing Jew or for a Jew to take a loan from a Jew charging interest. So this means they are less likely to be part of predatory loan practices when taking loans. They can get interest free loans.
What Aura is trying to point out to you that you don't seem to appreciate is that Jewish people were a heavily discriminated religious minority group. So even taking for granted that they had benefits of intergroup cooperation, this should be looked at within the background of being discriminated against by larger society.
I think a big explanation for Jewish American success and Asian American success that exceeds what might be expected of their average IQs is that respective focus of their cultures on educational success. This is reflected by high degree attainment.
Freshell said: What Aura is trying to point out to you that you don't seem to appreciate is that Jewish people were a heavily discriminated religious minority group. So even taking for granted that they had benefits of intergroup cooperation, this should be looked at within the background of being discriminated against by larger society. Why? The discrimination is long since over. Shouldn't we look at the "benefits of intergroup cooperation" as it relates to current society, as opposed to the Medieval Period? By the way, many different groups engage in nepotism. I think we're seeing that for example with a lot of Indian and Chinese immigrants to the West. It's what you get when there is next to zero assimilation. |
Reply to Mr_Question
Freshell said:
What Aura is trying to point out to you that you don't seem to appreciate is that Jewish people were a heavily discriminated religious minority group. So even taking for granted that they had benefits of intergroup cooperation, this should be looked at within the background of being discriminated against by larger society.
What Aura is trying to point out to you that you don't seem to appreciate is that Jewish people were a heavily discriminated religious minority group. So even taking for granted that they had benefits of intergroup cooperation, this should be looked at within the background of being discriminated against by larger society.
Why? The discrimination is long since over. Shouldn't we look at the "benefits of intergroup cooperation" as it relates to current society, as opposed to the Medieval Period? By the way, many different groups engage in nepotism. I think we're seeing that for example with a lot of Indian and Chinese immigrants to the West. It's what you get when there is next to zero assimilation.
Mr_Question said: Why? The discrimination is long since over. Shouldn't we look at the "benefits of intergroup cooperation" as it relates to current society, as opposed to the Medieval Period? By the way, many different groups engage in nepotism. I think we're seeing that for example with a lot of Indian and Chinese immigrants to the West. It's what you get when there is next to zero assimilation. I'll just go with Asian American success since I see the reason for success as being parallel. If inter-group cooperation was a strong explanation for group level success, then we would expect this to generalize. Any group that exhibits more loyalty towards the in-group will tend to be successful, and the more loyalty they have, the more successful. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2019/04/09/key-findings-on-americans-views-of-race-in-2019/ Blacks are the most likely to say their race is extremely or very important to their sense of identity; 59% of Hispanics and 56% of Asians say the same about being Hispanic or Asian. In contrast, about two-thirds of whites say being white is only a little important (18%) or not important at all (47%) to how they think about themselves. Among both blacks and whites, those younger than 30 are less likely to place importance on their race as part of their overall identity. Someone who doesn't feel obligated towards others of some group they're a part of will likely not strongly identify with that group. So should serve as an indicator. Black Americans are the most likely to strongly identify with being black, then Hispanic Americans with being Hispanic are the second most, then it's Asian Americans with being Asian. This is in reverse order to how successful these groups are in America. What does seem to distinguish these successful groups? One thing is degree attainment. You also can't just chalk this metric up to inter-group cooperation. Their professors are likely a different race and/or religion than them.  This reflects what I see when I look around. Asians are going for more degrees. They're going for more high returning degrees as well. Jewish Americans also have high degree attainment. |
FreshellMay 19, 7:28 PM
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