boku_no_pervert said: With obsessive One Piece, Pokemon, etc. fans I personally wouldn't consider them hardcore fans of anime as a whole but hardcore fans of their favorite series. I feel like you should first establish the difference between what is considered Casual from Hardcore. I read that a lot of people think that "rebel" watching or going against what's popular, means you're a hardcore anime fan- But why? Do you not consider somebody ONLY focussed on one anime, but absolutely obsessed with it like One Piece watchers, Pokemon watchers, Naruto watchers etc, to be hardcore fans? They know every piece of lore that is to know and you would then by definition of popularity consider them casual? And i'm then not considered a hardcore fan even though i've watched more anime than most people i know irl? Your question will never be answered because there is no answer, it's impossible to answer without establishing what you mean as casual or hardcore. I don't think any anime separates hardcore fans, it is the amount of obsession that counts in my book. Your other point is valid and has made me rethink my idea of what makes someone a 'hardcore' anime fan. I still don't really understand anime fans who only watch shows that are new or trending on social media, but I guess it takes some dedication to consume a lot of anime content regardless of what era it comes from. |
Shmubm said: A lot of pokemon fans I have seen sounds like they haven't moved on from 1999. They still speak as if pokemon is this juggernaut that is bigger than everything when its viewership is a joke now vs back then. Not to mention the franchise had a huge falling out after Unova similiar to the Yugioh Zexal Crash. There is a reason very few people talk about the Pokemon anime now, and a lot of the talk just revolves around the games (which aren't being particularly well received).boku_no_pervert said: With obsessive One Piece, Pokemon, etc. fans I personally wouldn't consider them hardcore fans of anime as a whole but hardcore fans of their favorite series. I feel like you should first establish the difference between what is considered Casual from Hardcore. I read that a lot of people think that "rebel" watching or going against what's popular, means you're a hardcore anime fan- But why? Do you not consider somebody ONLY focussed on one anime, but absolutely obsessed with it like One Piece watchers, Pokemon watchers, Naruto watchers etc, to be hardcore fans? They know every piece of lore that is to know and you would then by definition of popularity consider them casual? And i'm then not considered a hardcore fan even though i've watched more anime than most people i know irl? Your question will never be answered because there is no answer, it's impossible to answer without establishing what you mean as casual or hardcore. I don't think any anime separates hardcore fans, it is the amount of obsession that counts in my book. Your other point is valid and has made me rethink my idea of what makes someone a 'hardcore' anime fan. I still don't really understand anime fans who only watch shows that are new or trending on social media, but I guess it takes some dedication to consume a lot of anime content regardless of what era it comes from. While Pokemon does have a some very hardcore fans, a lot of their fans are so out of touch with the modern anime scene, they cannot really be considered hardcore fans. Not to mention Pokemon barely gets figures. Love live fans can be considered hardcore wince love live is still massive in today's industry and love live fans actually buy the blu rays and merch. That is why love live is inescapable in japan |
icefirestone23Jan 7, 2023 10:26 AM
icefirestone23 said: TheMechaManiac said: Gundam fans won't admit that they show more or less got carried by toys. Majority of Gundam fans are plamo addicts, and are only defensive because they spent their paycheques on toys.>Eva is more complex >when it literally rips off Raideen and Ideon >both are Tomino shows Lol, lmao even. Must be an Evageeks visitor. Also Gundam fans hate 90% of their own shows and most of the franchise is considered subpar. Eva doesn't have a single "bad" entry. >uhh... Gundam fans are plamo addicts, I'm totally not one despite buying all the figurines of 14 year old girls to coom to!  |
| Hot Blood saves lives. |
TheMechaManiac said: lmao, all gundam fans I know are addicted to plastic crack, and basically just waste their time, space, and money building, pissing off roommates and family, who then go to destroy the collection anyways. Not like it was special to begin with since they always restock that shit.icefirestone23 said: Gundam fans won't admit that they show more or less got carried by toys. Majority of Gundam fans are plamo addicts, and are only defensive because they spent their paycheques on toys. Also Gundam fans hate 90% of their own shows and most of the franchise is considered subpar. Eva doesn't have a single "bad" entry. >uhh... Gundam fans are plamo addicts, I'm totally not one despite buying all the figurines of 14 year old girls to coom to! https://www.reddit.com/r/ParentsAreFuckingDumb/comments/q8jij6/drunk_father_smashed_all_sons_gundam_models_and/ Then get into another au bashing war. Majority of those expensive figures are only bought by a hardcore fans of that fandom such as Fate. No other reason they get so butthurt when someone shits on gundam shows that ended years ago like ibo that were panned near the end such as IBO or get into arguments about shows that ended 10-20+ years ago. |
icefirestone23Jan 7, 2023 11:05 AM
| I CAN'T SEE A DAMN THING IF IT AIN'T GUAP (OH MY, WOAH) I CAN'T SEE A DAMN THING IF IT AIN'T GUAP (OH MY GOD, GUAP), YEAH THEY LIKE STEVIE (STEVIE), THEY CAN'T SEE ME (SEE ME) THEY WANNA BE ME (THEY WANNA BE ME), I'M IN THAT 'GHINI (IN THE LAMB' TRUCK) WHIP LIKE ZUCCHINI, WATER, FIJI (YEAH) IT AIN'T LEAVE ME (YEAH), SHE WANNA PLEASE ME (YEAH) 'CAUSE SHE NEEDY (YEAH), HO LIKE MIMI (YEAH) |
| Neon Genesis Evangelion for casual and hardcore Serial Experiments Lain for hardcore and old ones |
| خ |
| TBH; building complex, highly-sophisticated and refined model kits -such as what GUNPLA tend to be- can honestly be a very pleasant, stimulating experience, at least for the more technical-minded out there...     |
MasterTasukeJan 7, 2023 12:13 PM
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icefirestone23 said: The better choice is not eva, but Astro Boy. Because I said so.Lucifrost said: Gundam itself is just a gateway to plamo addiction. Which is arguably as bad as drugs since it kills your space, time, and money. But since plamo makes so much money, they pretty much milked that train for 40 years.I didn't realize this was a competition. There's no reason to watch either show in that case, as Astro Boy is better. When the show was released, Gundam got cancelled, and the followup series also underperformed. So for your wallet and personal space's safety, eva is the bettter choice. Also the gundam fandom is toxic af. You will be hardpressed to find a fandom that hates 90% of their shows. icefirestone23 said: Are you still talking about eva?get into arguments about shows that ended 10-20+ years ago. |
| その目だれの目？ |
| any distinction between the two is largely subjective and exceedingly arbitrary. gatekeeping yields no tangible benefits. |
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| If you watch anime made before the 2000's, you're already more hardcore than 90% of the fan base. |
on 
IpreferEcchi said: Mushoku Tensei is probably one of them. So by that logic I am still casual because I didn't watch yet. I didn't watch that pedo stuff... I won't watch it even if my life depends on it.. I feel bad for the women in anime.... There were some like ladies...but that fat pedo.. Besides I don't even watch isekai.. |
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MasterTasuke said: TBH; building complex, highly-sophisticated and refined model kits -such as what GUNPLA tend to be- can honestly be a very pleasant, stimulating experience, at least for the more technical-minded out there... Have you taken part in pla-mo competitions and tournaments? I've seen and heard here and there lot of foreigners travel to Japan to take part in tournaments .. |
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Deknijff said: I don't think its really a matter of what anime you do and don't watch fully but how much you spend time on watching what fits your taste regardless of how old the product is or not Thinking something along the lines of this. Another thought too, wouldn't the number of shows someone has seen be a good factor? Someone who's seen maybe less than 10-30 shows would be more of a casual compared to someone who's seen 50-100+ Just trying to get my +1 as well 😅 |
Respectfully ofc |
| Anime, I'm not sure, but manga - if a person have had read Berserk or Vagabond, then they're hardcore in my eyes |
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ryo-san said: MasterTasuke said: TBH; building complex, highly-sophisticated and refined model kits -such as what GUNPLA tend to be- can honestly be a very pleasant, stimulating experience, at least for the more technical-minded out there... Have you taken part in pla-mo competitions and tournaments? I've seen and heard here and there lot of foreigners travel to Japan to take part in tournaments .. Nah, i am in no way Well-to-Do. Granted, GUNPLA is pricey, but i have relatively limited interest within the GUNDAM universes' vast cornucopia of MS designs, and in any case i save up for the small number of uneven Anime/Mecha/GUNPLA splurges per year i make. i'm also into Hi-Fi/Audio/Video Gear in a big way. one of my life passions, mainly made financially possible for me by the Secondary Market, and the heavy depreciation in value therein that CE products are usually subject to. at any rate, even if i was more well-heeled and worldly, i doubt i'd have much interest in Tournaments and such, as i'm just not a particularly competitive sort of personality in any real way. i'd love to take some trips to Japan, though; properly financed for it, i'd get lost in the nooks and crannies of it all for good great while, and in many ways would probably never want to even leave... |
MasterTasukeJan 8, 2023 5:09 AM
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gprime70 said: Yeah the numbers are important, its also smart to pay attention towards episode count and weigh on a scale on what's more impressive, a anime fan who watched 30 anime with 25 episodes each totaling 750 episodes or a anime fan who watched 10 anime with 75 episodes each also totaling 750 Deknijff said: Thinking something along the lines of this. Another thought too, wouldn't the number of shows someone has seen be a good factor? Someone who's seen maybe less than 10-30 shows would be more of a casual compared to someone who's seen 50-100+ I don't think its really a matter of what anime you do and don't watch fully but how much you spend time on watching what fits your taste regardless of how old the product is or not Just trying to get my +1 as well 😅 |
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| Oh boy that get very difficult for me to even breakdown and explain because not every anime fan can be put into that category. For example, I do watch anime with unique and innovative plot (ie: Death Note, Terror in Resonance, Cowboy Bebop, Monster), famous classics (Inuyasha, Ranma 1/2, Sailor Moon, Gatchaman, Mobile Suit Gundam, Neon Genesis Evangelion), under-rated retro anime (Fist of the North Star, Godmars, Armored Trooper VOTOMs, Megazone 23, Cat Girl Nuku Nuku, Cat's Eye, Dirty Pair, Lupin the Third). Hell, I'll watch any baseball anime that are available legally in the US because I'm a big baseball guy!!! I'll watch any anime if it's good & unique, and any anime that is retro & old because I grew up watching a lot of older animation as a kid (I've even watched anime before I knew what anime was like for example, Akira). So what does that make me? What category of anime fan should I be put in? This is where I have a problem with the casual & hardcore anime fans. I mean for example, how many mainstream fans of Attack on Titan have ended up watching Muv-Luv: Alternative (or it's derivative work, Muv-Luv: Alternative Total Eclipse), or Blue Gender? Because a lot of casual & hardcore AOT fans are not bothering to watch Muv-Luv Alternative & Blue Gender given where Attack on Titan got it's influence from. Despite Hajime Isayama, AOT's creator have said it in the interview that AOT got it's inspiration from Muv-Luv, did it cause Muv-Luv's to get the same type of mainstream hype in the west? Nope, it didn't. Does Blue Gender get the same mainstream hype from AOT fans? Nope, & that's why I feel like using the label casual & mainstream fans is useless because the AOT fanbase are not giving other anime that pre-date AOT (or it's influence on AOT) the same love & hype AOT got. I could say the same for My Hero Academia, and Tiger & Bunny. Tiger & Bunny came out in 2011, and it didn't do well in the west, and we have to wait 7 years later for My Hero Academia to create the mainstream hype that Tiger & Bunny should've deserve back in 2011. And people have asked: If Tiger & Bunny and My Hero Academia are very similar, why did Tiger & Bunny failed in 2011 when My Hero Academia was able to do that few years later? Well, I guess technology must have made a big difference. But the good news is that Tiger & Bunny 2nd season was created 11 years later & I guess My Hero Academia's mainstream success must've been the reason for T&B's 2nd season many years later. I'm hoping the fans of MHA could give Tiger & Bunny a 2nd chance of success in the US (& given MAL's MHA fans heavily recommending T&B, I'm hoping that's the case). I'm seeing a lot of fans of Tiger & Bunny reaching out to MHA fanbase to give Tiger & Bunny a 2nd shot of mainstream hype. That's what I'm also seeing from Ashita No Joe fanbase doing with Megalobox, & fans of Hajime No Ippo. Another disappointment I have with mainstream anime fanbase as a whole, we all know Bleach is mainstream hype in the US. But does Shakugan No Shana have the same mainstream love & hype in the US from Bleach fan given they're both similar? Nope, & that's what also upset me. Despite Shakugan no Shana's similarities with Bleach, you would think mainstream Bleach fans would be eating up Shakugan no Shana in the same way, but nope. This is why I hate the label casual, mainstream anime fans because not every anime fan will operate the same way. I fit into a different label of anime fans. SleepingAsteria said: I'd say Revolutionary Girl Utena. Almost 30 years later, it still has a passionate and active fandom that creates new beautiful art work and thoughtful analysis every day, but it's not as well known by the general public. I think I know why Revolutionary Girl Utena fanbase is still active & is getting new fans: Steven Universe If you didn't watch the series, or know about Steven Universe and how it's probably playing a role in keeping Utena's fanbase in the US active. Rebecca Sugar, the creator of Steven Universe is a big fan of Utena when she was younger and she cited that anime as a big influence for the creation of Steven Universe. I mean: Den of Geek article on Utena's influence on Steven Universe Steven Universe Reddit: Revolutionary Girl Utena References You can see references/homage to Utena in Steven Universe in the video below: That probably explain why Utena's fanbase are still active, and probably getting new fans. Steven Universe must have helped Utena's fanbase stay relevant despite Utena not being mainstream in the US. Man, do I love & wish to see AOT's fanbase giving Muv-Luv: Alternative, & Blue Gender the same type of passion given to them like Steven Universe fans kept Utena's fanbase active. I can say the same for Tiger & Bunny staying relevant despite My Hero Academia's mainstream popularity. KaiserWilhelm_II said: Hardcore fans are the ones doing real-life organizing, cosplaying, social events. I'd say that anime fanatics who drive hundreds of miles to conventions can be considered hardcore fans. skapuppet said: Hardcore fans = manga/LN readers. Casuals are the ones who only watch anime. I'm not sure that's a good description, there are hardcore fans that don't do cosplaying, or something like you just describe. You can be a casual anime fan and can still do cosplaying. You can be a casual anime fan and still show a lot of passion on certain anime titles but at the same time not being extreme hardcore territory. Like for example, despite AOT and Demon Slayers having t-shirt being available in any stores in the US, I want to buy a Gundam 0079, & Fist of the North Star tee-shirt for myself over AOT & Demon Slayer tees. True story: I know a guy back in college that loved Gundam Wings, and build Gundam Wings figures. But he didn't even know about the other Gundam series like UC Gundam (ie: Mobile suit Gundam, 08th MS Team, Zeta, Double Zeta, Char's Counterattack), Gundam SEED, and at the time he didn't even know about Gundam 00 being broadcasted at that time. So yeah, the term casual, mainstream, hardcore doesn't work because whatever I said is an example of a person who doesn't fit that category. I mean if a guy who loved Gundam Wings like a hardcore fan, and build Gundam Wings figure somehow didn't somehow know about the other Gundam series, what do you called that fan? Have you ever met a fan of one Gundam series, but somehow didn't know about the other Gundam series? Because whatever I just told you is a true story. PriinceYuki said: Stage 1 - Non anime fans : People who watched an anime or a few but don't have an interest in the medium. Stage 2 - Casual fans : People who watch anime irregularly. They up popular mainstream titles, interesting series, top recommendations, and may also watch seasonals. Stage 3 - Hardcore fans : People who watch anime regularly and love it as a form of entertainment. They have a good arsenal of watched series, and they watch many seasonals. Anime is one of their primary sources of entertainment, but they'll prioritize themselves and their lives over anime. Stage 4 - Extreme fans : People whose whole life and identity revolve around anime and its underlying culture. They spend a lot on anime goods, watch anime most of the time, wish they could be in Japan, might be shut-ins, and might indulge in unhealthy behavior. Some may indulge themselves too much in online activity. There could be a category placed between 3 and 4 but I lumped it into 4. Yeah, it's a good category although I may lean toward level 3. There are times where I go beyond level 3. But that's the problem with categorizing anime fans like me. I sometime go hardcore but not that otaku extreme (probably because I'm also a K-pop/K-drama fans, along with watching Taiwanese dramas, and watching casual US entertainment like for example I watched Knight Rider (yes, the 1982 classic) on Netflix). That's why I don't like the term casual, mainstream, & hardcore fans when it comes to anime. Because I don't usually fit into that label given my anime preference. |
mdo7Jan 8, 2023 10:14 AM
tchitchouan said: I disagree. That was the first anime I watched when I started watching again back in 2020 and I certainly wouldn't call myself a "hardcore fan". It's certainly an anime for people who have at least ventured a bit deeper than first time viewers but by no means would I say it's "hardcore". It's pretty mediocre, honestly. I just have a soft spot for it.Hideaki Anno's Neon Genesis Evangelion. I'd argue what separates a "hardcore" anime fan and a "casual" anime fan is that hardcore fans will go out of their way to find anime that interests them. I consider myself a casual fan because I don't deliberately take time out of my day to look for anime that I could like --- most of the stuff I watch I've either seen mentioned and sounds interesting, has been recommended to me by friends, or I've just come across by myself. I don't think I've ever sought out a single anime without being told about it, something I imagine isn't a problem for more hardcore anime fans. |
piyowizfootJan 8, 2023 11:03 AM
| Genderfluid, she/they - please use the latter if you're unsure. |
_Kubsti_ said: I have to say this is quite a interesting topic to think about. I would say that a Stage system that PriinceYuki described fits best the great differences in Anime fans. Black and White thinking is to narrow and we have all differently strong and differently based interest in Anime. I would categorise myself between Stage 2 and 3 because I do not particulary prioritize my life around on Anime. Not for me, I'm a very different type of anime fan from majority of hardcore & casual fans, I don't watch seasonal anime (unless the plot is that good, me watching seasonal anime is super-rare for me). I've watched under-rated retro/old anime. I've watched anime with innovative & unique plot/narrative. I don't considered myself as a otaku or extreme anime fans despite I dabble into researching into that anime title and where it got it's inspiration from like for example, if I watched Attack on Titan, I'll watched Muv-Luv: Alternative and Blue Gender. If I watched Bleach, I'll watch Shakugan No Shana because of the similarities. I'm not a fan of Isekai in general but despite that I'll watch Aura Battler Dunbine because well beside being the first Isekai anime, and created by Yoshiyuki Tomino (I'm planning to watch Ideon because it's not only created by Tomino, but that's where Evangelion got it's inspiration from), it's old & retro and under-rated. Speaking of Dunbine and Isekai, I find it disturbing that despite the recent popularity of Isekai genre amongst anime fan, Aura Battler Dunbine is being ignored by the same demographic who watched Sword Art Online & Isekai genre given that Dunbine is the first Isekai anime to be created, and I find that unacceptable for me as a retro anime fan. Again, this is the same complaint I have regarding anime fanbase whether casual, mainstream, or hardcore fanbase. There are under-rated anime that are being ignore or not given the same love!!! boku_no_pervert said: I feel like you should first establish the difference between what is considered Casual from Hardcore. I read that a lot of people think that "rebel" watching or going against what's popular, means you're a hardcore anime fan- But why? Do you not consider somebody ONLY focused on one anime, but absolutely obsessed with it like One Piece watchers, Pokemon watchers, Naruto watchers etc, to be hardcore fans? They know every piece of lore that is to know and you would then by definition of popularity consider them casual? And i'm then not considered a hardcore fan even though i've watched more anime than most people i know irl? Your question will never be answered because there is no answer, it's impossible to answer without establishing what you mean as casual or hardcore. I don't think any anime separates hardcore fans, it is the amount of obsession that counts in my book. You perfectly answered this (I wish MAL had a thumbs up button so I can give you that) and also described myself although my taste in anime might differ from you. I don't fit in the label of casual, or hardcore because my taste and preference in anime differ from majority of the fanbase on MAL (although I don't ruled out there maybe anime fans out there that have similar taste and views like me and yours but don't have MAL profile/account to authenticate that). But yes, that's why I don't like the label casual, and hardcore because you and I don't fit into that categories. As I said, my taste in anime differ from majority of fans on MAL. |
| The so called classics if the mid to late 2000s and the anime that has even gone beyond those classics, like FMAB & SNK. |
mdo7 said: Maybe that's because Dunbine isn't anything like Sword Art Online.Speaking of Dunbine and Isekai, I find it disturbing that despite the recent popularity of Isekai genre amongst anime fan, Aura Battler Dunbine is being ignored by the same demographic who watched Sword Art Online & Isekai genre given that Dunbine is the first Isekai anime to be created, and I find that unacceptable for me as a retro anime fan. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Lucifrost said: Maybe that's because Dunbine isn't anything like Sword Art Online. Doesn't matter, Aura Battler Dunbine set up the foundation for Isekai genre including Sword Art Online. If I was a SAO/Isekai genre fan, Dunbine would've been the first anime I would watch after so many Isekai anime coming out recently. The fact that Aura Battler Dunbine is being severely ignored by people who watched SAO and Isekai in general is unacceptable to me. I mean if you're a fan of Isekai, you've would at least did some research about where did the genre originated from and bingo, Aura Battler Dunbine pops up and that would've gotten a lot of Sword Art Online & Isekai fans watching Dunbine. Aura Battler Dunbine is severely under-appreciated by people who watched Isekai genre. How can one be called a fan of Isekai if they don't give Dunbine that same love? |
mdo7Jan 10, 2023 8:06 AM
KaiserWilhelm_II said: To make myself clear, I do not think that being "hardcore Fan" is something negative. I respect these guys. Why should I insist on calling them casual then? When did I say "hardcore fan" is offensive or negative? I never said that. I said I don't like the label "casual" or "hardcore" because there are anime fans like me that don't fit the label, I'm one of those people. I don't fit the label "casual" nor "hardcore" because I'm just way too different from many of you on MAL. |
mdo7 said: Those people have probably watched The Wizard of Oz and Alice in Wonderland, which are both better. Nobody has to check out every mediocre anime and game to prove himself a "fan" of the genre.Aura Battler Dunbine is severely under-appreciated by people who watched Isekai genre. How can one be called a fan of Isekai if they don't give Dunbine that same love? |
| その目だれの目？ |
Lucifrost said: Those people have probably watched The Wizard of Oz and Alice in Wonderland, which are both better. Nobody has to check out every mediocre anime and game to prove himself a "fan" of the genre. Unfortunately we're living in an era where boasting is a big deal, and a mediocre anime title to one person can be deemed "awesome" to another. Yes, there are fans of "so bad that it's so good" titles & that include anime. I mean Im guilty of watching so bad it's good anime like Chargeman Ken. You also got to remember we got a lot of elitism and douchebaggery in the anime fandom, so yes, you can see 1 anime fan insulting another anime fan for not watching that title to not be called a fan. Sad, but true. & don't called Aura Battler Dunbine a mediocre anime, it's the anime that was the foundation of Isekai genre. As I said, if I was a fan of Sword Art Online & Isekai genre in general, Dunbine would've the first anime to have been checked out and to appreciate it for setting up the Isekai genre. No Aura Battler Dunbine equal no Sword Art Online |
mdo7 said: People don't even read The Bible, yet you're worried about some anime barely anybody has heard of?& don't called Aura Battler Dunbine a mediocre anime, it's the anime that was the foundation of Isekai genre. As I said, if I was a fan of Sword Art Online & Isekai genre in general, Dunbine would've the first anime to have been checked out and to appreciate it for setting up the Isekai genre. No Aura Battler Dunbine equal no Sword Art Online |
| その目だれの目？ |
Lucifrost said: People don't even read The Bible, yet you're worried about some anime barely anybody has heard of? Not sure how the bible is relevant in this one. Yeah, it's unacceptable for someone who watched Sword Art Online or any modern Isekai anime to not have watched Aura Battler Dunbine, the anime that was the foundation for today's isekai anime. |
| I don't know if it's exactly possible to determine this according to one anime or another. For example, many people might argue that watching classics like NGE and Cowboy Bebop can serve as a "game changer" in this regard, but I see a lot of people who watch anime casually and are fans of this type of work. They're also quite popular, in a way, and I wouldn't put them here just based on the date. That said, I'd say a good splitter would be something like 3-Gatsu no Lion, Sora Yori mo Tooi Basho, or even Monster. Acclaimed works that, although relatively well known, are not so popular as to reach the mainstream and be much talked about. In general, most die-hard anime fans hear about them on websites and when searching for them, although they may coincidentally see recommendations from people outside. At the same time, they are works of premises and structures that are more suited to a niche, that is, outside the popular comfort zone of Rom-Coms, Fantasy and Battle Shonens. The point is that discovering this type of work usually requires some engagement by the fan and, at the same time, they are not completely unknown and obscure anime. Citing here as a divider a very unknown work, for example, would put the vast majority of MAL people outside the point of casual, and I believe that this is not the pattern, although many truly here are. |
| The amount of Monogatari answers in this thread makes me want to puke. There's such a weird fetish some people have with trying to put it over as some obscure arthouse indie bit that only *real* anime fans know and appreciate, whenever it's one of the most commonly recognized, discussed and approached series outside of your Demon Slayers and Dragon Balls with millions and millions of viewers in the west - and it's even more popular domestically. It's normie in the sense that discussing anime on reddit instead of MAL is normie. Sure, it's not something you'll see a lot of people wearing t-shirts of in public, but it's only one layer deeper - and that top layer is *very* thin relative to the medium as a whole. To say it's hardcore is like saying fucking Gintama is hardcore. Both very popular in the west, pretty much top sellers in Japan, and that popularity is reflected in many, many seasons and adaptations of the source material. Just because you want to think that casual fans are stupid idiots who can't handle dialogue-driven series like you and your big brained weeblet self doesn't mean that as much is the case, it just means that you have a serious ego issue and are treating people who aren't "hardcore" fans like drooling mongoloids who only want to see flashing lights. Monogatari having 1.3 million members on a website like this reflects as much. I don't think there's a good answer to this thread, by the way. The distance between casual and hardcore is pretty wide. If we're talking ecchi fans, I'd say so long as they've seen more than KLK, NGNL, DxD and HotD then they're not really casual, but I wouldn't consider them hardcore unless they could recognize random shit from the OVA era or some ecchi with 10,000 or less members on this site - the ones who delve as deep into the genre as they can go. It's not so binary, basically, to where we can set up a clear gatekeeper series. There's a wide margin between hardcore and casual that most people on a site like this would fall into. I consider myself a hardcore ecchi fan, but I definitely wouldn't say I could discuss any other genre/area of the medium at a hardcore fan's level. I wouldn't consider myself casual with the medium as a whole, either, because I've definitely watched a lot of non-ecchi series that aren't immediately accessible and visible to non-fans. I fall in that wide margin in-between on that general level. |
ManabanJan 8, 2023 5:46 PM
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mdo7 said: The Bible influenced much more of today's culture than Dunbine ever will.Lucifrost said: People don't even read The Bible, yet you're worried about some anime barely anybody has heard of? Not sure how the bible is relevant in this one. Yeah, it's unacceptable for someone who watched Sword Art Online or any modern Isekai anime to not have watched Aura Battler Dunbine, the anime that was the foundation for today's isekai anime. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Manaban said: There's such a weird fetish with some people have with trying to put it over as some obscure arthouse indie bit that only *real* anime fans know and appreciate, whenever it's one of the most commonly recognized, discussed and approached series outside of your Demon Slayers and Dragon Balls with millions and millions of viewers in the west - and it's even more popular domestically. It's normie in the sense that discussing anime on reddit instead of MAL is normie. Sure, it's not something you'll see a lot of people wearing t-shirts of in public, but it's only one layer deeper - and that top layer is *very* thin relative to the medium as a whole. To say it's hardcore is like saying fucking Gintama is hardcore. Both very popular in the west, pretty much top sellers in Japan, and that popularity is reflected in many, many seasons and adaptations of the source material. Just because you want to think that casual fans are stupid idiots who can't handle dialogue-driven series like you and your big brained weeblet self doesn't mean that as much is the case, it just means that you have a serious ego issue and are treating people who aren't "hardcore" fans like drooling mongoloids who only want to see flashing lights. Monogatari having 1.3 million members on a website like this reflects as much. I don't think there's a good answer to this thread, by the way. The distance between casual and hardcore is pretty wide. If we're talking ecchi fans, I'd say so long as they've seen more than KLK, NGNL, DxD and HotD then they're not really casual, but I wouldn't consider them hardcore unless they could recognize random shit from the OVA era or some ecchi with 10,000 or less members on this site - the ones who delve as deep into the genre as they can go. It's not so binary, basically, to where we can set up a clear gatekeeper series. There's a wide margin between hardcore and casual that most people on a site like this would fall into. I consider myself a hardcore ecchi fan, but I definitely wouldn't say I could discuss any other genre/area of the medium at a hardcore fan's level. I wouldn't consider myself casual with the medium as a whole, either, because I've definitely watched a lot of non-ecchi series that aren't immediately accessible and visible to non-fans. I fall in that wide margin in-between on that general level. Exactly a good way to put it. There's another problem I like to add to the label "casual", "mainstream", & "hardcore". By now, we've already seen the rise of adult animation in the US/west for the last few years with animation like Legend of Vox Machina, Netflix's Castlevania, Invincible, etc... it could lead to more people that never watched non-mainstream anime watching anime that they randomly found. I mean let me give you couple scenario: Person A who never watched any anime watched Netflix's Love, Death + Robots ended up watching Robot Carnival because somebody & a article this person read suggested that animated film if he/she liked Love, Death + Robots. Person B who had no experience with non-mainstream anime but watches Legend of Vox Machina on Prime Video was told about Record of Lodoss War, The Slayers franchise, and Record of Grancrest War and Person B ended up watching those anime titles because of Legend of Vox Machina. Person C who is a big fan of Avatar: The Last Airbender ended up watching Kaze No Stigma because somebody showed Person C a clip or trailer of Kaze No Stigma and Person C found that show appealing because of the similarities between the 2. Does that make Person A, B, & C a hardcore anime fans now because they watched a non-mainstream anime based on a western adult animation they've watched and was told about anime similar to those western animation I just mentioned in the scenario above? That's why I don't like the label "casual", "mainstream", or "hardcore" because you can have somebody who never watched any anime ended up watching a non-mainstream anime because of similarities. I mean I've watched both anime and western adult animation, I can see how cross-appeal can work for someone who never watched anime before. So yeah, it wouldn't sound crazy for someone who watched South Park, Family Guy, or any of the western adult animation could end up watching a non-mainstream anime. I mean I wouldn't be surprised if someone who watched Inside Job on Netflix could ended up watching Excel Saga, Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, or any mon-mainstream slice of life comedy anime. Somebody who is a non-fan of anime could ended up watching one or 2 non-mainstream anime, and you can't called them anime fans, hardcore, or casual because that label doesn't worked well in a scenario(s) I just described above. Lucifrost said: The Bible influenced much more of today's culture than Dunbine ever will. I don't see how this is related to Isekai fans not giving Aura Battler Dunbine the same love it should be getting. |
| this is really a silly question imo. drawing some vague imaginary line between the casuals and the "real" anime fans is rather pretensions and toxic and moreover labeling certain shows as being criteria to cross that line just doesn't make sense. everybody likes different types of anime, if someone really likes shoujo and tries to watch all the niche shows in the category but doesn't really care for other types of shows and they've been watching anime for over a decade, are you really going to say that they aren't a real hardcore anime fan? i get that this is just a fun thing to get people to send in their anime essentials which on its own would be fine but the way its presented here is very gatekeepy. |
mashcake said: i get that this is just a fun thing to get people to send in their anime essentials which on its own would be fine but the way its presented here is very gatekeepy. Not about gatekeeping. It's a caste system. To determine which group of fans you belong to and should associate with. |
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Manaban said: Monogatari isn’t that casual though. Sure it’s mainstream within the deeper anime community, but if you showed this to any anime twitter user under the age of 15 who has a Demon Slayer profile picture, they would cancel you. I do agree that it is not as “avant-guarde” as other anime though, however I think it is the themes portrayed in Monogatari that I agree, will push away the casual viewersThe amount of Monogatari answers in this thread makes me want to puke. There's such a weird fetish some people have with trying to put it over as some obscure arthouse indie bit that only *real* anime fans know and appreciate, whenever it's one of the most commonly recognized, discussed and approached series outside of your Demon Slayers and Dragon Balls with millions and millions of viewers in the west - and it's even more popular domestically. It's normie in the sense that discussing anime on reddit instead of MAL is normie. Sure, it's not something you'll see a lot of people wearing t-shirts of in public, but it's only one layer deeper - and that top layer is *very* thin relative to the medium as a whole. To say it's hardcore is like saying fucking Gintama is hardcore. Both very popular in the west, pretty much top sellers in Japan, and that popularity is reflected in many, many seasons and adaptations of the source material. Just because you want to think that casual fans are stupid idiots who can't handle dialogue-driven series like you and your big brained weeblet self doesn't mean that as much is the case, it just means that you have a serious ego issue and are treating people who aren't "hardcore" fans like drooling mongoloids who only want to see flashing lights. Monogatari having 1.3 million members on a website like this reflects as much. I don't think there's a good answer to this thread, by the way. The distance between casual and hardcore is pretty wide. If we're talking ecchi fans, I'd say so long as they've seen more than KLK, NGNL, DxD and HotD then they're not really casual, but I wouldn't consider them hardcore unless they could recognize random shit from the OVA era or some ecchi with 10,000 or less members on this site - the ones who delve as deep into the genre as they can go. It's not so binary, basically, to where we can set up a clear gatekeeper series. There's a wide margin between hardcore and casual that most people on a site like this would fall into. I consider myself a hardcore ecchi fan, but I definitely wouldn't say I could discuss any other genre/area of the medium at a hardcore fan's level. I wouldn't consider myself casual with the medium as a whole, either, because I've definitely watched a lot of non-ecchi series that aren't immediately accessible and visible to non-fans. I fall in that wide margin in-between on that general level. I guess Monogatari is a show where if you can’t handle it and get offended some of the themes and jokes, you will forever be a casual. Like our main character is a lolicon who nearly does the deed with his blood related sister… I don’t think the dream fans would enjoy it. Sadly anime has been taken over by cancel culture twitter users, so I consider any cultured individuals who like their ecchi and crude jokes in animated, fictional worlds to be, not necessarily hardcore, but defiantly not a causal anime fan. Edit: BTW, really good taste with your ecchi shows, i still need to get around to watching some of them |
Yuri_NijiJan 8, 2023 6:32 PM
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KaiserWilhelm_II said: Okay fair enough. I understand that you don't want to put people in these categories. It's not that I don't want put people in a category of anime fan. The problem is the definition of "casual", "mainstream", and "hardcore" fans have changed so I can't just labeled that person that title because they might not fit the "current" definition of that fan label. I mean you can be a hardcore fan of Attack on Titan, but don't expect that hardcore AOT fan to be watching Muv-Luv: Alternative, Blue Gender, Demon Slayers, Kabaneri. There are fans that are like that. I mentioned before I had a college classmate that watched Gundam Wings, but didn't know about the other Gundam series. So yes, those type of fans do exist. That's why using the "casual", "hardcore" label doesn't work for those type of fans. As I stated, I'm a very very different type of anime fan, I don't considered myself an otaku or extremely hardcore, I'm not a casual anime fan. I'm knee deep in anime/manga, but guess what I'm also knee deep in other fandom like K-pop/K-drama, & East Asian pop culture in general. So I'm not casual, but I'm nowhere close to extreme hardcore territory. |
| Tbh I think you become a hardcore anime fan the day you start watching anime you don't particularly like and have a harder time finding good ones that suit your taste, it just hits different. I don't think a specific show can determine if you're a casual or hardcore since you could start watching anime through a serial experiments lain recommendation |
| Probably monogatari Most casuals fans can't keep up with the dialogues talk less of the watch order |
| I'm going to say Monster. This anime is not for everyone due to its slow pacing and mature themes. But for a psychological show, it's absolutely brilliant and worth watching all the way just for the plot. It's very well written. Another one would be Berserk (1997). This definitely separates the casuals and the hardcore watchers. Berserk is not for the feint of heart. If you can get through the Eclipse, you become even more of a man. The Eclipse will give anime watchers trauma. It is unlike anything you have seen before. A complete roller coaster of a nightmare. |
 |
| None. Anime isn't the distinguishing factor between the "casual" and the "hardcore" fan; its behavior. If you buy any form of merchandise beyond manga, stickers, or clothes, you are hardcore and not a casual. If you use MAL, A**list (its a swear to me now), Kitsu, Taiga, etc., you are inherently not a casual because you are tracking this shit. If you are torrenting anime, you are not a casual. If you go to conventions, you are not a casual, especially if you dress up in cosplay. If you are learning Japanese because of anime, you are not a casual and I hope that you never subject Japanese people to your weebery, especially the Ryukyuans of Okinawa, they suffer enough from Marines populating their island, don't subject them to weeb activity. The only activity nearly as bad as harassing innocent Japanese or Ryukyuans with weeb-level Japanese is watching anitubers, whether its Gigguk and Trash Taste or Vtubers, this activity marks you as not a casual. And I haven't even mentioned idols, not even religion can save an idol fan. I don't care if you have only watched Chainsaw Man or if you have watched 1000 days of anime and wasted 30 years of life and oxygen on anime, if you do anything beyond basic consumption of the medium, you are a hardcore fan. You can even only watch Legend of the Galactic Heroes and still be a casual, but if you do anything beyond basic, NPC-like consumption, you are no longer a casual. |
| The old 2000s romcoms. School Rumble, Hayate No Gotoku! and of course Seto no Hanayome. |
ateks said: I couldnt agree more here. Nice boat!takamono said: Not sure, but maybe Lucky star, To love ru, Oreimo, Oregairu, etc. This but with School Days instead of Oregairu. |
In my opinion, you are the most sensible person in this thread, because you correctly pointed out that Monogatari is a popular and even mainstream show within the anime community online and within Japan's own community. However, I disagree with you entirely on this idea of a "gatekeeper series" and the notion of defining depth of fandom by what shows were watched or how much has been watched. In my opinion, behavior is the only reliable way to distinguish depth of fandom between a casual and a hardcore fan. It is an easier standard to uphold on a case-by-case basis because behavior can be placed on a spectrum (does X buy merch like figures/gunpla? does Y learn Japanese because of anime? does Z pirate anime instead of pay for streaming services? etc.) and this spectrum can be used to identify ones own fandom depth or investment into the medium. You can see my original post in the thread for more of an understanding for what I mean. Even if I disagree with your assessment of fandom, I still respect your answer because you are clearly one of the few in this thread capable of critical thought. Manaban said: The amount of Monogatari answers in this thread makes me want to puke. There's such a weird fetish some people have with trying to put it over as some obscure arthouse indie bit that only *real* anime fans know and appreciate, whenever it's one of the most commonly recognized, discussed and approached series outside of your Demon Slayers and Dragon Balls with millions and millions of viewers in the west - and it's even more popular domestically. It's normie in the sense that discussing anime on reddit instead of MAL is normie. Sure, it's not something you'll see a lot of people wearing t-shirts of in public, but it's only one layer deeper - and that top layer is *very* thin relative to the medium as a whole. To say it's hardcore is like saying fucking Gintama is hardcore. Both very popular in the west, pretty much top sellers in Japan, and that popularity is reflected in many, many seasons and adaptations of the source material. Just because you want to think that casual fans are stupid idiots who can't handle dialogue-driven series like you and your big brained weeblet self doesn't mean that as much is the case, it just means that you have a serious ego issue and are treating people who aren't "hardcore" fans like drooling mongoloids who only want to see flashing lights. Monogatari having 1.3 million members on a website like this reflects as much. I don't think there's a good answer to this thread, by the way. The distance between casual and hardcore is pretty wide. If we're talking ecchi fans, I'd say so long as they've seen more than KLK, NGNL, DxD and HotD then they're not really casual, but I wouldn't consider them hardcore unless they could recognize random shit from the OVA era or some ecchi with 10,000 or less members on this site - the ones who delve as deep into the genre as they can go. It's not so binary, basically, to where we can set up a clear gatekeeper series. There's a wide margin between hardcore and casual that most people on a site like this would fall into. I consider myself a hardcore ecchi fan, but I definitely wouldn't say I could discuss any other genre/area of the medium at a hardcore fan's level. I wouldn't consider myself casual with the medium as a whole, either, because I've definitely watched a lot of non-ecchi series that aren't immediately accessible and visible to non-fans. I fall in that wide margin in-between on that general level. |
| i consider myself casual these days but i used to be a pretty hardcore fan i agree with @priinceyuki imo its not which anime a person watched its how much anime takes up their life. i would call a 12 year old who only loves popular shonen anime but watches it or talks about it any chance they get to be a hardcore fan just as much as someone who has been watching anime over 20 years and still watches it daily. someone who watches only a few obscure shows here and there wouldnt be a hardcore fan imo |
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