traed said: _Nette_ said: Imma address people in broad strokes here. First when you get to know somebody it is your choice whether or not you care about them. If they die and you feel sad that's solely on you. You chose to give a shit about a temporary person. Second. I'm only thinking objectively here. Death isn't something to weep over but instead something to celebrate. I learned this working at a care home. It means the end if suffering which is a cause to celebrate. Third. Regardless of how much I may want to die doesnt have any bearing on my opinion. This is just how I feel about the subject. You're not being objective. You even contradicted the claim of objectivity later saying it's just how you feel, which would be subjective. To say it means end of suffering isn't fully accurate. It ends all personal living experience not just the unpleasant but the enjoyable things too. The only claim of objectivity I made was that death is something to celebrate and people are temporary. I can put my feelings in there too. But I'm putting my feelings aside right now when I say death should be as accessible as possible. |
  ♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
_Nette_ said: traed said: You're not being objective. You even contradicted the claim of objectivity later saying it's just how you feel, which would be subjective. To say it means end of suffering isn't fully accurate. It ends all personal living experience not just the unpleasant but the enjoyable things too. The only claim of objectivity I made was that death is something to celebrate and people are temporary. I can put my feelings in there too. But I'm putting my feelings aside right now when I say death should be as accessible as possible. Saying it's something to celebrate is not objective. Saying it's something some people celebrate would have been objective. The opposite is also true that it's also dreaded by people. The "to" in "to celebrate" implies moral imperative in that it suggests it's how you think people should act not any objectivity. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
_Nette_ said: Hear me out. I'm a huge proponent of people's right to die. I believe that if someone wants to die it should be as accessible as possible. That's just my viewpoint as someone who actually has wanted to die but couldn't. Dying is hard hence why I believe in accessibility. What about you though? Do you believe in people's right to die? Or do you not? Is it ethical to prolong people's suffering because it would make you feel better? Discuss below. I don't even have anything meaningful to add, you basically said what I think. Why would you prevent a suicide because "it gets better", when in reality it might not? Why risk suffering even more for a slim chance of getting better, if you can just end all of this? Many people say suicide victims are selfish because they "abandon people who loved them for the sake of their own escape". Well guess what, it's actually the other way around: the ones who are selfish are those who keep you from suiciding just because they "will feel devastated by the loss of you". I actually think giving birth is unethical. Life is more suffering than joy, and creating a life that will experience suffering just because you want to reproduce is incredibly selfish. I didn't ask for this life, and now you're also trying to stop me from throwing it away? Bullshit. |
KikugiJan 21, 2022 9:56 PM
| "If the cuckoo doesn't sing, I guess I'm fine with that." - Natsuki Andou, Kitaku-bu Katsudou Kiroku |
| I'm strongly against assisted suicide for people that aren't terminally ill. If you are too afraid to kill yourself using the usual methods (hanging, jumping off a bridge, pills) because of the pain, then you aren't someone that should be comitting suicide to begin with. Only when you truly believe you're at your lowest and there's no way back would one commit suicide using those methods. And I've seen plenty of people that told me they want to commit suicide, although their situation is one that they can get over with time. |
Laurilei said: Zwiwwelzopp said: I don't even have anything meaningful to add, you basically said what I think. Why would you prevent a suicide because "it gets better", when in reality it might not? Why risk suffering even more for a slim chance of getting better, if you can just end all of this? Many people say suicide victims are selfish because they "abandon people who loved them for the sake of their own escape". Well guess what, it's actually the other way around: the ones who are selfish are those who keep you from suiciding just because they "will feel devastated by the loss of you". I actually think giving birth is unethical. Life is more suffering than joy, and creating a life that will experience suffering just because you want to reproduce is incredibly selfish. I didn't ask for this life, and now you're also trying to stop me from throwing it away? Bullshit. Just because some people suffer not all do. While I've had some lows in my life, overall, it's been a lot of fun. I want to give that to my children. And I wouldn't have had them if I didn't think I had the tools to give them a chance at happiness. That said, I do know there are people who have kids for selfish reasons that I don't think is right; to save a relationship, to fulfill a dream they themselves didn't accomplish, for more money from the government, etc. Everyone suffers, some just learned how to convince themselves that the fun outweighs the suffering :) Sad to hear you brought even more souls into this would just because you're confident you'll make them happy, even though not much of their wellbeing depends on what you do, especially after they grow up. |
KikugiJan 22, 2022 8:34 AM
| "If the cuckoo doesn't sing, I guess I'm fine with that." - Natsuki Andou, Kitaku-bu Katsudou Kiroku |
Zwiwwelzopp said: I actually think giving birth is unethical. Life is more suffering than joy, and creating a life that will experience suffering just because you want to reproduce is incredibly selfish. I didn't ask for this life, and now you're also trying to stop me from throwing it away? Bullshit. At least you feel something. I do not remember the first 14 billion years of me existing in this Universe. Literally nothing. Even if my parents conceived me for selfish reasons, I am thankful that they have given me a chance to see, feel, experience, and change this reality. This world will exist for trillions of trillions of many many more trillions of years to come, and dead or alive, there will be no escape, so you might as well as well hold on to your consciousness a little longer and try to find your purpose. |
149597871 said: Zwiwwelzopp said: I actually think giving birth is unethical. Life is more suffering than joy, and creating a life that will experience suffering just because you want to reproduce is incredibly selfish. I didn't ask for this life, and now you're also trying to stop me from throwing it away? Bullshit. At least you feel something. I do not remember the first 14 billion years of me existing in this Universe. Literally nothing. Even if my parents conceived me for selfish reasons, I am thankful that they have given me a chance to see, feel, experience, and change this reality. This world will exists for trillions of trillions of many many more trillions of years to come, and dead or alive, there will be no escape, so you might as well as well hold on to your consciousness a little longer and try to find your purpose. If I could choose between feeling nothing or feeling joy at the expense of also feeling sadness, I would have chosen the former :) Laurilei said: Zwiwwelzopp said: Everyone suffers, some just learned how to convince themselves that the fun outweighs the suffering :) Sad to hear you brought even more souls into this would just because you're confident you'll make them happy, even though not much of their wellbeing depends on what you do, especially after they grow up. My parents gave my sister and I the foundation to enjoy life despite the lows (and she's been through lower lows than I have). Sad to hear the people who raised you weren't able to do the same for you. Sure, at least you're unaware that you suffer more than you feel joy, I guess you can call that "happiness" |
| "If the cuckoo doesn't sing, I guess I'm fine with that." - Natsuki Andou, Kitaku-bu Katsudou Kiroku |
_Nette_ said: Hear me out. I'm a huge proponent of people's right to die. I believe that if someone wants to die it should be as accessible as possible. That's just my viewpoint as someone who actually has wanted to die but couldn't. Dying is hard hence why I believe in accessibility. What about you though? Do you believe in people's right to die? Or do you not? Is it ethical to prolong people's suffering because it would make you feel better? Discuss below. I think the present state of affairs are fine, though I wish euthanasia wasn't so restricted. I believe in this because, there are patients who are entirely dependent on external assistance and may not be able to end their lives because of it. (physically) Suicide prevention avenues/services are required (and should be more widespread) as people who feel very much on the brink of life may want to look for something to hold onto.. so such helplines are very much needed. Do people have a right to die, that is something that each must know for their own self.. there is no 'should' or 'should not' in my view of this. The reality is the power to end their own life is in their hands, can put an end to it whenever they want. And I don't agree with making suicide 'accessible', how can it come to be the responsibility of the state? The state should always want to assist people and uplift them, it's very existence is to make lives better. |
| I do think almost every human being wanted to die, but I myself thought suicide was a very selfish act. One's death could be badly impactful to their S/O. You at least have one S/O. You have access to the internet, I assume you're not homeless who are totally lonely. In my case, my family was the reason why I'm still alive (and also I'm not that brave to take my own life lol). I don't know how to treat suicidal person, this is just my perspective on the act of suicide. |
 |
VioIet said: I do think almost every human being wanted to die, but I myself thought suicide was a very selfish act. One's death could be badly impactful to their S/O. You at least have one S/O. You have access to the internet, I assume you're not homeless who are totally lonely. In my case, my family was the reason why I'm still alive (and also I'm not that brave to take my own life lol). I don't know how to treat suicidal person, this is just my perspective on the act of suicide. on the contrary. imo the people who want others to stay alive just so they don't have to grieve their death are the selfish ones. suicide is not selfish. |
   i love gambling!! i can stop at anytime!! genshin and hsr are not good games and i do not play them, or spend money on them. wooo 🐝 |
Zwiwwelzopp said: 149597871 said: At least you feel something. I do not remember the first 14 billion years of me existing in this Universe. Literally nothing. Even if my parents conceived me for selfish reasons, I am thankful that they have given me a chance to see, feel, experience, and change this reality. This world will exists for trillions of trillions of many many more trillions of years to come, and dead or alive, there will be no escape, so you might as well as well hold on to your consciousness a little longer and try to find your purpose. If I could choose between feeling nothing or feeling joy at the expense of also feeling sadness, I would have chosen the former :) But you can't. As long as this world exists, there will be suffering. At least when I'm alive, I can try to change that. Death solves nothing, for it is just a part of the neverending cycle of life. If you want to truly end suffering, you have to live and fight. As a human living in the 21st century, you have the power that no other species that have lived on our planet ever had. Throwing it all away would be selfish. We can either solve the riddles of the Universe or remain prisoners forever, stuck in this world and destined to suffer for all eternity. |
| It should be a timer thing. A person signing up for it can't get it instantly, and can't get it while intoxicated. You sign up and wait a month and then if you haven't changed your mind you're given the option |
9cycle  cycle9 |
| Open the way and with time people will turn it into business. Do you want to end your life in hot springs, drop dead from Mount Everest or maybe have your last moments in the company of beautiful women? |
| I don't really see any issue with people committing suicide for whatever trivial reason they fancy. I'll probably do it myself if I ever get so old I can't enjoy anything. |
 |
| If a person gets bad enough, they will attempt suicide even if they don't have convenient means to do so. In that case, many will cause permanent injuries to themselves, but still survive and be too traumatized to try again, physically unable to or simply deterred by others from further attempts. That means they now have to remain alive, but in an even worse state than before. With cases such as these considered, I don't think it's always ethical to restrain suicide. That aside, I have a very particular opinion on the subject. I'm more on the materialist side and I don't believe that life has inherent value to it, so whether or not a person could get better if they were assisted instead of dying, or regardless of how old they are, death is the natural end of everyone, being just a matter of when. To me, prolonging said life through immeasurable suffering, against one's will, just for the sake of prolonging it or for other selfish reasons, that also doesn't seem ethical. With all of that said, I still don't support or instigate others to commit suicide, of course. I would still insist for them to get external help first before making that decision. |
SmugSatoko said: Meusnier said: I did not expect to be understood any way... If you communicate clearly enough, most can understand the point you are making. You are talking about a "right" whilst forgetting about the possible definitions: "the fact that a person or animal [?! (1)] can expect to be treated in a fair, morally acceptable, or legal way, or to have the things that are necessary for life," or "your opportunity to act and to be treated in particular ways that the law promises to protect for the benefit of society." https://dictionary.cambridge.org/ja/dictionary/english/right I don't need to take into account any definition aside from the one I refer to. Good luck justifying suicide from a moral viewpoint (the definition of the categorical imperative implies that it is impossible). I don't need to justify it from any viewpoint, for it is self-evident. Each person owns their own life. If they decide to kill themselves, they have every right to do so, because it is their life and their decision. (I already explained this.) Considering that most people regret trying killing themselves, I fail to see how assisting their suicide would ever be considered as "fair" (and we are not discussing about outliers here). Please quote the post in this thread wherein I said anything about assisted suicide or a right to be killed by others. I fear you will have some trouble uncovering this nonexistent post. When it comes to the legal aspect, it should be clear that a "suicide law" would kill countless of fragile people who should rather be assisted than "helped" this way. I'm not sure which "suicide law" you are implying I advocate. Last but not least, a suicide never benefits to society unless you are old and retired if one insists on being cynical. A suicidal person is obviously not interested in benefiting society. However, one could argue that certain people dying could benefit society. I simply believe that suicide should not be illegal as in some countries (which does not mean that I support a legal "right to die"). If you believe attempting suicide should be legally permissible (that is, it would not be a crime if one fails and is caught), then you do support the right to die, in at least some sense. People who commit self-harm should be helped, not ostracised. Indeed. Although I don't think attempted suicide should be a crime, I do believe they should be given the option of getting the help they need to live a more fulfilling life. Under most circumstances, I don't think anyone should resort to suicide. (But again, it's not my decision.) Pfff, I do not even want to read your reply when it is formatted in such an awkward way. You know that you do not have to reply in such a surgical way? This is very unnatural. The thing is that I am not forced to be clearer than I want to be. Please quote the post in this thread wherein I said anything about assisted suicide or a right to be killed by others. I fear you will have some trouble uncovering this nonexistent post. Why do you think that I was referring to a post of yours? I was not. I'm not sure which "suicide law" you are implying I advocate. Again, this is not about you, I was addressing each component of the definition I had shared. Think of Babylon. A suicidal person is obviously not interested in benefiting society. However, one could argue that certain people dying could benefit society. It does not matter since the viewpoint is the one of society in this third aspect of the definition of right. If you believe attempting suicide should be legally permissible (that is, it would not be a crime if one fails and is caught), then you do support the right to die, in at least some sense. Judging from the definition I have shared above, I will keep denying the existence of any "right" to die. |
Meusnier said: Pfff, I do not even want to read your reply when it is formatted in such an awkward way. You know that you do not have to reply in such a surgical way? This is very unnatural. Which is why you then proceed to utilize the same format. :D The thing is that I am not forced to be clearer than I want to be. The thing is, if you simply claim a certain right does not exist, no one has any reason to believe you. Why do you think that I was referring to a post of yours? I was not. Then why bring it up in your reply to my post? Again, this is not about you, I was addressing each component of the definition I had shared. Think of Babylon. Not sure why you're focusing on an arbitrary definition so much...especially one that is irrelevant to what I was saying. If you're so keen on reading dictionaries, you should be able to grasp what is meant when someone talks about having a right to do something. If you disagree with the notion that a person's life belongs to them, and therefore they have the right to end their own life, then address that and explain why you dispute it. It does not matter since the viewpoint is the one of society in this third aspect of the definition of right. Society as a whole does not use only one single definition of the word right. Judging from the definition I have shared above, I will keep denying the existence of any "right" to die. So you cherrypicked a definition while ignoring all others, including the one I was using? Okay then... This isn't complicated. It's each (adult) person's right to do what they wish with their own bodies. |
SmugSatokoJan 22, 2022 7:53 PM
 |
| i remember reading a study about suicide survivors that recovered from it and is glad they're still alive. so i think based on that alone prevention is worth it. |
| So, any particular reason why you won't let me strap a suicide vest on you and remotely control you in an electric wheelchair like a drone for the glory of the Ecchi Caliphate? The ableistphobic West will never see it coming. >:3 Now, get into the vest t-shirt Nette. |
 |
Soverign said: So, any particular reason why you won't let me strap a suicide vest on you and remotely control you in an electric wheelchair like a drone for the glory of the Ecchi Caliphate? The ableistphobic West will never see it coming. >:3 Now, get into the vest t-shirt Nette. Lol what a great contraption in that video. Sure strap the suicide vest on me and send me with a bang XD |
♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
| @_Nette_ I am so fucking proud of you right now. You are doing God's work Son. |
|
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