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Mori-dono said: I completely disagree with a theory that existence itself is the good thing. Yup. This one stood up like sore thumb to me. Undending torture is good according to the show, which anyone with a shred of empathy disagrees with. |
| I've mixed feelings about this finale & the anime itself. 1. Never expected that we will get that kind of ending, basically, It's probably the first anime that ends on a negative note, where the MC loses and become the "evil guy" as Magase mentioned. 2. The first 7 episodes were banger, the last 5 eps were kind okey-ish, loved many dialouges in that anime, like the one with Magase and Zen in ep2, Itsuki on live with other ppl in ep 6 I guess, Zen and Alex in ep10, G7 Summit in ep 12. 3. A lot of other things left without solving them, the ending is kinda open, I like open endings but this one needed a lil bit more explanation about other stuff. 4. I'm okey without knowing the secret of Magase's power, it's like in Monster - Johan -. Not everything need to be logical and explained, that's the point of them being unnatural to us, not believing that such powers exist. 5. Some dialogues were also meh, and the idea that the anime focused on the world's view after ep 7 is - imo - is a bad move, if you want to focus worldwide you'll need more eps than 5 to cover up everything. And as we saw, a lot of stuff were left unsolved. They'd better stick with the plot being in Japan. 6. The 1 month hiatus was a bad move as well. Killed the hype after ep 7 and altered the plot to the US/Worldwide instead of Japan. Overall, the anime had its ups and downs, yes the finale isn't that perfect and I can understand why many ppl were disappointed, Animes like this need to be a lil bit longer to explain everything or at least make the audience collect the puzzle's pieces - like in Monster -. But +1 to the unique dialogues, +1 to the good character design, +1 for trying to make an anime with such a potential, +1 for that unexpected - whether u see it as a bad or good - ending. |
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| Maybe the Final was good.. or maybe it was bad... But one thing i really liked of it, Despite not being a Popular show, where everyone watches it, and just say a lot of irrelevant comments... This one, gave us a huge variety of "valid" points of view... Too many valid reasons to support it... Too many valid reasons to hate it... PS: Also trash comments, just saying "is bad cus is bad"... Just, please dont. |
| I want to know what happened to Zen. He helped to free the president, but to others, he just assassinated him. The suicide law didn't get a conclusion, and that makes sense. It's a huge topic, so no answer would be truly satisfying. I really wanna know more!! Magase lived, so does that mean she convinced Zen to kill himself? Even at the end, they are leaving us with a lot of thinking to do. I loved this anime, although I wish it answered more questions about the characters. I am giving it a 7/10 because you can't give 7.45 here. |
| That's why I should have dropped it sooner, I don't know how to rate something so messed up, closer to the end I could really see the lowering of the score by a point with each passing minute. Some episodes ago I just stopped caring anymore and still don't care about anything no matter how shocking or intellectual it tried to be. Those conflicts about good and bad might be interesting in their own right and the mystery with Magase's power could be interesting as a main focus too, but blended together it's just... meh. Maybe there's a second season planned that has a proper conclusion? But I doubt it as it was an adaptation from the finished novel. Regardless, none of it was worth watching, a bunch of people was killed off just for the sake of what? Magase's disgusting victorious smile at the end? And... so what? All the pretentious big talk with sexualized evil might just leave some part of the audience confused into thinking that it's the best masterpiece ever. But actually there was none of the substance to the story or any engaging conflict even between main characters, and somehow a president that appeared 4 episodes ago was supposed to be a key to quickly resolve the problem that existed for, like, billions of years already. TL;DR. Fucking bullshit. |
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| Some people, mainly @eWEQRW123123 @KANLen09 @a2me @Zryn @Septeus7 @Outlander @Piromysl have understood an important aspect of the story and talked about it in their own ways. As I have perceived it as well, I'll try to clear the water for people who watched and want to understand the story better. I have not read the source material, but it is good to keep in mind that it is in a textual form (Light Novel), moving the narrative using words instead of images and sounds. There are differences between these two means of telling a story that make it hard to translate from one tho the other. The one I'll focus in here is what I think is the key to understanding this show better. Words have the privilege of easily carrying multiple meanings that make it possible for us to produce figures of speech like metaphors, analogies, irony and the like. It is a lot harder to communicate multiple meanings through images because they tend to convey just literal meanings. Keeping that in mind, we must remember that in Babylon we've seen a lot of things hinting that we shouldn't interpret everything that happens literally. The best examples I remember are the following: Constant associations being made between magase, the whore of babylon and Satan ; Her powers that are anything but human; The meanings of the main character and antagonist's names: Zen, being 善 in Japanese, and Magase Ai, being 曲世愛 in japanese. In conclusion, watch it knowing that there's more to it than meets the eye, and you will need to put your imagination to work. |
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| Some mad cause open ending and shit, well i thought this was a great final episode that fitted the tone of the overall show. One of the best of 2019. 8/10 or a high 7/10 i dont know. If you are not willing to interpret it at least a little why watch it in the first place. Ai is the whore of Babylon, if you wanna try to at least understand the ending go read up on that (its just my interpretation tho) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whore_of_Babylon a representative figure for "evil". |
-Mullerio-Jan 28, 2020 11:07 AM
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| It saved itself in the ending. I wouldn't say the execution was perfect but the answer to what good is was satisfying enough. I'm willing to forget last episode and give this show a 6/10. In the end, Zen kills himself so he's bad, and Magase continues so she's good. |
noelXJan 28, 2020 11:37 AM
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| The show really peaked a while ago. I actually could not get myself to watch new episodes right away roughly since episode 8. I guess my suspension of disbelief was completly undone at that point. The beginning in Shiniki was the foundation for a very goody thriller but increasing the scale and keeping Magase and everything around her this obscure was not for the best. The show lost focus and overall did not handle its characters well. Not too much of a fan of how philosophy was approached either but I give it props for the attempt. 6/10 |
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| I finished the last episode last night like almost everyone else here. And Ive spent my whole work day thinking about the end over and over again. The psycho bitch won. The story was a goddamn mess. And Im so fucking bitter about how bad it got. |
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| Ending was hilarious. Strange show. great music. |
Silveraith said: So I understand that Magase Ai is essentially the Whore of Babylon, the Antichrist, the Devil, or all three, but what is the meaning behind her survival against Zen? There is no meaning |
| What if Zen, the only one to speak with Magase Ai and not want to commit suicide, was actually brainwashed by her right in the beginning? Maybe instead of convincing him to commit suicide, she planted the desire for him to chase her and follow her plan. Her first conversation with him (about good vs. evil) was finished in the last scene. The camera was careful to not show Magase Ai visible to anyone but Zen. What if she led him there, through all the suffering, but was never actually there in the end? He realized it was all in his head and that's why he couldn't shoot her at the end. |
| Man its hard to give score for this anime. Had strong start but lost it when plot left japan. I was going to give 6 or 7 but just because Magase won 8/10 |
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| What a stupid ass waste of time. Just lazy philosophy and a weak non-ending. People who think this is deep must really like the sound of their own voice. |
Sylverthas said: But the thing is, this anime wasn't deep. It was trying hard to be deep but most people here have watched stuff like Monster which was 10x more substance and had better characters.Mayuka said: I'm tired of the people in this thread saying that anyone who scores this show a low score must automatically mean we're too stupid to understand this mess that is called Babylon. I've only been on this forum a couple of weeks and from what I've seen the first assumption always seems to be that people are too stupid to "get it". |
Strumpor said: so why did zen have to kill wood? If wood gave him the gun to "do the right thing" and what he did with it is end wood's life after he came to the conclusion that "ending" is evil. All it did was make him a criminal I don't think it served any purpose except maybe he didn't want wood to "end" himself so zen did it for him. It was to prevent Wood from killing himself against his will, as he was already under Magase's "magic spell". In his first conversation with Magase he announced that he would commit suicide, should he come to the conclusion that suicide was in fact a good thing. So if Zen hadn't shot him and the president killed himself by jumping off that roof with the entire thing being broadcasted to the whole world, it would make it seem as if the president had decided that suicide was "good", which would have probably made a lot more people be in favour of the suicide law. Zen had to shoot the president, as that was their only option to keep Magase from winning at that point. |
| What a complete waste of good production and directing. |
a2me said: Finally, I think both President Wood and Seizaki are nevertheless destined to meet their demise. Analogous to Adam and Eve in the Book of Genesis, once Seizaki and President Wood obtained their conclusions (knowledge of good and evil), they will head towards their inevitable downfall (fall of man). That's a good and interesting detail I failed to notice while watching. That would also give more meaning to the seemingly random illustrations of the Forbidden Fruit and Adam and Eve that were shown in the episode. |
| I'm a Religions major so the symbolism here should put this show in my wheelhouse but the way it uses the Bible is so uninteresting and weak. The repeated point that "the Bible doesn't say suicide is wrong" ignores that the independent, literal reading of the Bible is a relatively new phenomenon (the concept of sola scriptura did not arise until the Reformations, and Jewish readings of the Tanakh have relied on the Talmud for an even longer period of time). America is technically a majority Protestant nation so I guess you could say that American characters understanding the Bible as a literal, self-sufficient document makes sense. But if religious symbolism is the crux of the show it doesn't make sense to me to privilege the perspective of a set of characters who don't appear until the third act. It's just sloppy writing. Speaking of sloppy writing, we never got a motivation for Ai beyond "I like bad things," which again the religious symbolism angle would forgive except this show begins as a mystery and the protagonist remains an investigator throughout. I don't remember an actual connection between Ai and the mayor ever being established. Overall an embarrassingly edgy, shoddy script with horrible police work (I pointed this out in an earlier thread but the fact that nobody vetted the kid they chose to run for Parliament is just absurd) and no payoff. I genuinely hope I never have to think about this show again. |
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| What was the point of all that happened? What is the point of this show? |
| I am so disappointed. This series could have been so much better. I feel so much betrayal. Oh well, it's time for me to move on I guess. |
| I think the suicide law did not continue or approved after zen shot the pres showing that suicide did not win but i still dont get the answer of who magase really is Im having lots of questions and doubts, did magase killed zen? did something change to magase after that incident? why is zen only not affected with her (but it think bcz he's will for justice is strong but is that really it?) what will happen now to kaika itsuki and why is he working with magase and not just kill himself lol? Good is continue while Evil is end. Good means continuing life evil is ending life that's the only thing that got into my mind focusing only in life, nothing more |
"Everyone fails sometimes But dreams won't fade, dreams won't fade Let's chase them as many times as it takes and don't lose Because today after all is today and once you wake up, it'll be a new morning" ~Aqours~ |
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