Enen no Shouboutai Episode 4 Discussion

w_i_t_d said:
No, I don't. I didn't state my opinion hoping to sway others. Take or leave it. Agree or disagree.
Feelings and opinions often fly in the face of logic.
I didn't. That was my whole problem with it. I was able to take the show seriously until the fanservice came along.
It's called "hyperbole." I don't know the percentage of her boobs that can be seen, and neither do you.
I never said that. I said 'if' taking away a character's fanservice makes the character weaker, they weren't very strong to begin with.
As I mentioned, I have no problem with boobs in general. I simply don't believe this show does a good job of seamlessly integrating fanservice with its core plot. That this is how I feel isn't an indicator I have a "problem."
I never insinuated that the show is equal parts fanservice and serious.
I didn't say the show is having 'an identity crises'; I said it 'it seems like the show can't decide what is wants to be.' The 'it seems' part of the statement means I'm stating my personal feelings. However, since you seem to be dying to have me admit you're right, I'll say you are correct about my opinion being 'predicated on ideas that you want the show to be as opposed to what it is.' A person's like or dislike of a show is often driven by the show turning out to not be what they want it to be.
Then what are you doing here? I'm here because I had high hopes for this show.
I'm not even going to quote the part where you patronizingly call me "immature" five times. Speaking of making a lot of assumptions, you sure seem to know a lot about my maturity level, just based on a couple MAL forum posts I've made.

o·pin·ion
/əˈpinyən/
noun
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

As I have dropped this show, it's unlikely I will be revisiting this forum. I would encourage you, as someone who 'really doesn't give a shit about this series,' to do the same.

Black_Sheep97 said:
yes you do, if you want your opinion to be treated as valid you need to explain your reasoning, if you don't it's baseless and uninformed,

Black_Sheep97 said:
if you didn't want to sway others why are you engaging in conversation with me.

Black_Sheep97 said:
Feelings are what create problematic opinions which you have proved to be in this case.

Black_Sheep97 said:
Yes that's the point the fanservice is there for scenes that involve tonal levity and aren't serious in nature while the more serious scenes are almost devoid of fanservice and don't emphasize, so many great stories in anime have fan service in them why is this any lesser.

Black_Sheep97 said:
Yes I can come up with a rough percentage cause I can see it, and if you want to have your "opinion" taken seriously why do you hyperbole? That is the precurx of bad opinions.

Black_Sheep97 said:
I know that's what you said , that's why I made that statement to counter it and make the claim that it isn't true, and I elaborated further as to why prior to it, in how that fanservice scene adds to her characterization and fits well the Character and the situation , as all fanservice should. You implied fanservice if used as a tool to bring out a person characterization than the Character didn't have much depth to begin with and i explained that's how fan service should be used and it is used that way in this instance.

w_i_t_d said:
I said I was leaving, but I'm having far too much fun owning @Black_Sheep97, who has been busy disagreeing with everyone who didn't think episode 4 was a masterpiece, despite their openly admitting to not having any real interest in the show.
I would only need to explain my reasoning if I cared to have you agree with my opinion. My opinion should be treated as valid simply on the basis that I watched the show, thought about it, formed an opinion, and am an adult human being with the prerogative to form and state my opinions as I please.
The one and only thing I desperately wish I could sway you on is the fact that opinions can be neither proven nor disproven. You are welcome to disagree. In fact, if your initial response to me had been, "I disagree. I enjoyed the fanservice, and I think the show does a good job of balancing the serious with the lighthearted," I would have had nothing but respect for your response. But instead, your response went something like, "You're wrong and immature and exaggerative," which not only means you feel it's appropriate to insult others on this forum, but it indicates you simply have no grasp on how opinions work. You can wholeheartedly agree, violently disagree, or anything in-between, but other people's opinions aren't "right" or "wrong."
Is it even possible for a person to form an opinion that's entirely divorced from their feelings? If you strip out the feelings, then you're left with facts. This would be an awfully boring forum if the posts were filled with nothing but facts, such as, "Episode 4 is approximately 23 minutes long," or, "Fire Force is an anime adaptation of a shounen manga of the same name."
So, what you're saying is that the fanservice scenes and the serious scenes are kept separate? I don't disagree, but it doesn't change that it's emotionally jarring when this show moves from serious to fanservice and vice versa. By the way, the previous sentence is an opinion, which means you have no basis upon which to say I'm wrong, though you are more than welcome to disagree with me.
Would you have treated my opinion with more respect if I had used an accurate estimate of the percentage of her boobs that are visible? If I had said something about being able to see 34%, would you not be invalidating my opinion by referring to it in quotes, as if it's not a real opinion? Also, are you saying anyone who uses the commonly-used literary device known as hyperbole has a 'bad opinion' that can't be taken seriously?
hy·per·bo·le
/hīˈpərbəlē/
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
You should take your own advice about recognizing what is or is not meant to be taken seriously.
I implied no such thing. If you believe the 34% of the 5th brigade's boobs hanging out adds to her character, that's fine. I don't believe it does, but don't be tempted to put words in my mouth and take me as meaning she's lacking in character because 34% of her boobs are hanging out. If I recall correctly, I actually clapped when I saw her using a pile of boys as a chair. That's pretty badass. She obviously has lots and lots of secrets she's keeping from the 5th brigade, and I found that intriguing. However, I don't care for this show's overall use of fanservice.

Black_Sheep97 said:
If you don't care to have me agree with you're opinion , why would you post it in a discussion, thread , that's the point of it.

Black_Sheep97 said:
it's called the objective lens for critical thinking, which is to establish a justifiable criteria that all stories should fundamentally meet and identify what about it is special in comparison to it's peers and contemporaries.

Black_Sheep97 said:
Proving and disproving someone's opinion goes hand in hand with disagreeing or agreeing.

Black_Sheep97 said:
i find the pacing to be just perfect, that's the only thing great about the show right, now it moves at a pace that doesn't drag on and doesn't make the narrative disjointed and confusing, as far as caring about the characters is concerned that based purely on personal preference and has nothing to do with pacing, the series has done an adequate job of understand the character motivation and actions, whether we care about them or not is completely personal and isn't the fault of the show if it doesn't happen for someone.

Golgamesh said:
Am I the only one to find the Ecchi abusive for a "Shounen Nekketsu"?

Shinra and the girl in a bikini in the previous episode and now the sadomasochism...

w_i_t_d said:
I could disassemble all of @Black_Sheep97 's response, but I'll boil my response down to my top two points.

1) MAL forums exist so we can vent and discuss our thoughts and feelings.
Wrong. Persuading others of your view is not the only reason one might post in a discussion thread. Perhaps it's why you post in a discussion thread. Others have different reasons. For me, I so badly wanted to like and enjoy this show, and I was very frustrated that I had reached the conclusion I should drop it. I posted as a way of articulating my reasons for dropping the show, to make sure dropping is really the right decision, and as a way of venting my frustration.
LOL. Fucking what? This is an anime discussion forum. There are people here from all strata; age, socioeconomic, education, etc. This is not a scientific forum where we discuss whether or not the power of black holes could be harnessed to power cities on Earth. There are elementary school kids on this forum. They sure as fuck aren't here to look through 'the objective lens for critical thinking.' They, like most people on this forum, are here to discuss how the shows they watch make them feel. They're here to discuss what they love (love = a feeling), what they hate (hate = a feeling), what annoys them (annoyance = a feeling), and what tickles their fancy (delight = a feeling). It's possible this isn't the right forum for you. I'm sure everyone on this forum would be perfectly happy if you decided to take your objective lens of critical thinking elsewhere.

2) Opinions are not "right" or "wrong" and cannot be proven or disproven.
Wrong. 100% wrong. I can not state enough times that no one is capable of proving or disproving an opinion. Opinions are by nature subjective. For example, someone's opinion about this show's ability to mix serious with fanservice is subjective. It's in the eye of the beholder, just like beauty is. In the same way you can't prove to me that Sakata Gintoki isn't the most beautiful anime character ever created, you can't prove my opinion about this show's use of fanservice wrong. No one is capable of proving or disproving my feelings. Can you disagree with them? Definitely. Can you state reasons why you disagree? For sure. Can you prove you're right and I'm wrong? No. The fact that you don't understand this one simple truth is why you are getting owned on a MAL forum by someone so immature.

HueyLion said:
Imagine trying to back up fan service? Goodness me what is happening to the anime community these days?

Wonted666 said:


Pacing sets the tone and when a story progresses too rapidly, I feel that the time an audience has to interact with/understand a character is limited. Of course there are cases in which the individual may be at fault for not being able to relate, but I don't think this is one of those cases.

Of course the audience does get some understanding of motivation about Shinra but what about the others? I understand their captain is a respectable man, but why does that matter? Why does everyone have this family like mentality despite them being together for only a mere four episodes. I understand that the older workers were there for an unspecified time, but the new recruits, a mere week or so. If the rebuttal is that they have been there for longer and that's why these rookie games are popping up out of nowhere, then the time lapse is too disorienting.

Also, while I do enjoy knowing about the world I would prefer to learn about it gradually than an exposition dump from what seems to be the villains, and on that point I don't know how they were even allowed in a private closed event. It didn't seem like the public was allowed to spectate.

All I mean to say is that, perhaps you are right and I personally don't connect with the characters, but from my perspective all I see are holes. Though, that's not to say this anime doesn't have potential nor is it to say I didn't enjoy these past 4 episodes, but I just wish it took a more episodic and relaxed approach. When the plot progresses at the speed of light there's no time for much else...

YabviMash said:
Holy jesus; This was a really bad animation episode. Shinra kicks the car down to the infernal in-front of the metal barrier with the street crossing light then, after cutting to the 5th doing their things, the car is in the middle of the road and now this fight is taking place in the middle of the road. Since, consistent directing seems to be a thing they are entirely unable to do.

This show has little to no pacing; why are we suppose to care about this conspiracy? There's no characterisation, no character's engaging in interesting ways - this is real garbage.

Oh also, the disgusting amount of just ecchi this show it producing out of nowhere feels just like the artist was really horny. I feel like there's a point I have to make and that is, the Captain of the 5th is getting a lot of shit for doing like, the bare minimum of bad.

Horn_dawg_2019 said:



You know that 5th Division Chef kinda reminds me of this from Okasama- On-line.

WTF these Fire Forces act like a gang than a professional life saving entity.

Shebas said:
The animation and the colors are stunning but I'm really about to drop this anime because the bad direction is driving me mad. To begin with, there're weird silences and long pauses with still frames that are not suspenseful, they're just annoying. Then, the jokes are not well excuted, both the normal and sexual ones. I mean, I'm okay with a bit of fan service here and there in a shonen, but they really feel out of place. Actually they feel very old school or belonging to an ecchi, not to fire force. And the soundtrack is awful, most of the time it doesn't fit the mood of the scenes properly (I'm leaving aside the op and ending tho, which probably are the best ones of the season). I'm truly having a hard time immersing myself in the plot (which is kind of good) because all this, together with the bland dialogues, puts me off. So far, the best episode was the 2nd, but if these issues keep showing up on next episode, I think I'll drop it. It's a bit sad because I really looked forward to this anime and the animation is gorgeous.

Black_Sheep97 said:
based on the first paragraph is why I think the pacing of the show is perfect, we interact with the characters just enough to understand their motivation and to build a relationships amongst, plus it moves at the exact pace where the tone of the show adheres to the context of the scenes the portray.

All the characters that have been there for a long time are quirky yet posses human relatable characteristics that enable to be considerate and welcoming as they are , to prolong the time it takes for them to create a trusting relationship would require different characterization. Not to mention the communal and occupational they would inherently share that is common amonsgt people in the field of police, army and of course firemen. Sharing a common threat that they have to work together and look out for one another would be catalyst for their relationships.

The second paragraph are partially agree with , I would have preferred to have learnt about the world gradually but the way they did is still an understandable and respectable one, as it helps to world build , set up the villains and establish the nature of the threat they bring to this world.

Understandable I personally like the concise and natural progression, but your desire for episodic direction is understandable.

lihle808 said:
This series sure likes subtle ecchi moments, and I'm starting to doubt its credibility.

Hope they face against the 5th division, which will probably never happen or will end in a mediocre way!

EsieEyen said:
So the 5th division decided to show up in this episode. We also got to see an infernal that talks which is rare. I was expecting Shinra to go all out on 5th division, but I guess he will not do it. I just want to see both division fight each other, that would be cool.

YosepRA said:
Does anyone notice these? Interesting...

TheFreycook said:
Considering fire attacks in pretty much every other anime are usually some of the coolest attacks, this show where everything is fire related makes it look so fucking clean, that and the light blue of their uniforms makes this a feast for the eyes

Wonted666 said:
The music and art are very vivid and on point, however I feel that the plot is progressing way too rapidly. In fact it feels like it's a rate if one of the main characters died or got hurt I couldn't care less. In other words the show, in my opinion, is not yet effectively, both engaging and connecting the audience to the world/characters within the anime

JustAnAnimeList said:
I think I'll drop this and go read the manga. This "Shaft style" of directing / editing doesn't work for shounen anime, it feels way to weird. I had no problem watching the Monogatari series and I like it very much, but this anime feels weird and sometimes even hard to watch.

tidoesstuff said:
What was with them in the 21st minute, they were standing like they were about to have a dance off...

Honestly, they should send someone with the 5th to keep tabs on the research since they have every right to do so as it's in their jurisdiction. Just saying (although that would mean they're a man down, but does that matter).

JustAnAnimeList said:


My problem isn't with the flashiness and bright colors of the show, it's with the weird cuts, pans and other editing techniques they're using on this show that is very reminiscing of Bakemonogatari. That kind of editing worked wonderfully in the Monogatari series, but it's not doing this anime any favors.

Shounen anime are way too fast paced and action packed for this kind of weird directing / editing to work properly and it's actually making it hard to watch in my case. I'll give it a couple more episodes to see if I can get used to it and if I don't then I'll just drop it and go read the manga.

Pikslap said:
>This series sure likes subtle ecchi moments
"""""""""""""""""subtle"""""""""""""""""

Pikslap said:
I think we're supposed to get 48 episodes, so I feel like someone is going to fire the first fire eventually.

Vanschia said:
watching Fire Force feels like

Horn_dawg_2019 said:



You know that 5th Division Chef kinda reminds me of this from Okasama- On-line.

WTF these Fire Forces act like a gang than a professional life saving entity.