Milk_is_Special said: our fastest torrent link is rip of crunchyI don't use crunchyroll, so why would I bother... |
Cross  AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
Drunk_Samurai said: Rei366 said: @DateYutaka Ok, so, you're basically putting yourself above any native english speaker who learned japanese? So you're saying an actual Japanese person who lives in Japan knows less Japanese than a native English speaker who learned it? No, I never wrote that. I ASKED if he considered himself ABOVE the example I wrote (by opposition to EQUAL), and since we were discussing translations from jap. into western languages I thought that the fact my question was about translating and not about japanese comprehension was pretty obvious. Note: only here to clarify this in case this was perceived by him as insulting, since you did find here something to brag about. @Pizza Tout d'abord, quelle persévérance ! ^^ (même si tout cela est vain ici) 2nd thing: thanks but I never wrote that he could be bad in his own languaga, even if it is actually plausible. I meant, in the domain of the translation, you do not only need to be fluent in the source language but also in the languge of the translation. Also, you once talked about the need to correct phrases in order to make them intelligible after translation, or simply look like a real phrase of the language. But this guy I was arguing with simply kept telling that he was against anything that isn't accurate (a word for a word, if you want). Something professional works lack according to him, but he never bothered answering about the level of (real) fansubbers translations. |
Rei_IIINov 10, 2016 1:24 AM
| Crunchyroll isnt killing fansubs because fansubs continue to come out AS WELL as Crunchyrolls subs. If you dont like them, just dont watch them? |
| nobody is forcing you to use crunchyroll |
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| Simulcast (legal) Pros:
Cons:
Fansubs (illegal and/or legal fairuse) Pros:
Cons:
I would not say they are killing the fansubs, but it is true that they are making some damage to them. Fansubs are not being paid for what they do and simulcast will get bigger because they are. Soon, the wonderful works fansubs make will be outcasted by the shadow of simulcast and their HDTV only myriad of content. I'd buy anime if I could, but I'd still use fansub subtitles because they are far superior. Simulcast subtitles are just very basic. |
HumbertoZeroNov 10, 2016 4:41 PM
GangsterCat said: I don't torrent either, so yeah, that's something....Milk_is_Special said: our fastest torrent link is rip of crunchyI don't use crunchyroll, so why would I bother... |
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CodeBlazeFate said: Dah b8 iz strawng wid diz wune. But in all seriousness, people constantly mock fansubs for a reason. They often translate poorly, leading to famous memes that would've never existed of translated properly, and Crunchyroll translates properly. Plus, the industry has some semblance of benefit with this while fanzine hurt it almost entirely. Did anyone else think this was bait? It has the signs. The lack of decent coherence, the tantrum-esque attitude, the asinine logic? It's got it all. It's actually rare to have the poorly translated fansubs. The memes you mention all came from troll subs. CodeBlazeFate said: Pizza said: THANK YOU!! Finally, one that has a good viewpointt on this stuff. Seriously, a lot of people who advocate for fansubs and illegal streaming, especially in the US, have no decent reason to do so, and are just like "I don't wanna pay $6 a month for this", "I don't wanna buy DVDs", or "I hate CrunchyRoll because I want my precious fansubs and streaming, by this official crap!" Honesty, the only ones that should have a reason to stream illegally are the ones in countries where anime isn't advertised well in, or people that have little money anyway.I can understand that some people are really poor and can't afford the few bucks for legal streaming services. I can also understand that some are underaged and unless they convince their parents to pay for them they can't watch legal streaming. But clearly 90% of people who claim to prefer fansubs are in neither of these situations. Most of them just feel entitled to free entertainment and don't care about abiding to the law, respecting the authors or giving money to right-owners. Then there are some who are just weeb and are butt-hurt because Crunchy and others try to appeal to a broad audience and won't keep the so-beautiful Japanweese honorifics in their english sentences (that's just an example, I don't know if they actually do that as I don't read CR english subs). I'm not 100% against fansub, I like that there are fansubers that tackle the translation of left-over shows like Precure or Macross. But I'll always favor the legal alternative when it exists, unless said alternative is really, really bad, which clearly isn't the case with CR. Then, if you're able to tell the difference between a decent translation and an excellent translation, it means that you actually understand japanese. Then you can just turn off the subs, for god's sake. I understand 95% of most shows without any subs, but I still read subs to get remaining 5%. However, if I stumble on the occasional Really Bad subs, I turn it off. This is the exact reason why I support fansubs. Just because I live in North America does not mean I shouldn't care about people in other countries. Ezekiel said: ]I disagree. Fansubbers need proper training and supervision/quality control. That must be why official subs never localize. ItsXolo said: Fansubs are almost unanimously awful, and the availability of officials subs is one of the best things about watching anime nowadays as opposed to back in the mid 2000s. Like I can't even describe just how bad fansubs are. Subtitles should be unobtrusive and feel like they're not even there. Like you should be reading them and not even realize that they're there. Your attention should be focused on the anime itself. Fansubs, on the other hand, are all about being as flashy and in-your-face as possible, distracting you from what you're trying to watch. Fansubbers love to use fancy, barely readable fonts. Plenty of multi-colored text flashing and moving around the screen. I watch a lot of mid-2000s anime, and having to deal with fansubs really sucks. Anytime I do decide to watch modern anime and get the nice, clean text for HorribleSubs, it's such a nice relief. I recommend watching this short, 5-part series about how bad fansubs used to be (and for the most part, still are). https://youtu.be/IUYlqLlbix0?t=1m5s I remember those videos. That guy was an idiot then and still an idiot now. Those videos are outdated now anyway. Bourmegar said: ...... great Even more reason why to hate region locking...... Some players are region free but more expensive I think. I'm 100% against region locking for anything. ItsXolo said: DanMachi episode 1, I think this was from FFF but I don't remember. http://i.imgur.com/GP8mEVj.jpg Recently I watched Muv-Luv Total Eclipse with fansubs. During the final climactic battle, they had lines like "You Kisama!" and a Lord of the Rings "You shall not pass!" meme. Like even during the climax of the show where you're supposed to be on the edge of your seat, fansubbers still can't help but make a mockery of whatever they're subbing. When I watched MK-Pn8's release of Parasyte, and each time during the opening I felt the need to disable the subtitles because the karaoke was just SO distracting. Fansubbers just love to put in as much typesetting and special effects as possible without ever stopping to think "Will this actually make the subs better?" That's the only example of a font that's actually bad that was posted in this thread. YugureShadowmore said: No. No I do not. Fan subs are not better then official subs. BECAUSE THEY FUCKING STEAL! Some people can't fucking afford blue rays. We suport the industry thru monthly subscriptions Copyright infringement IS NOT theft. YugureShadowmore said: ]Oh yea because some random guy on his computer can translate better then hired translators who proboly have some kind of degree in Japanese Definitely if it's a Viz manga release. Tyrel said: Nowadays it is, yes. Release times for shows are literally right when Japan airs so there's no point to doing original TLs. Original TLs for fansubs now shine if the actual officials subs are cancer—this is where the heavy translation checking comes into play or their own subs. Fansubbing will truly be left in the shadow when official subbers release movies more often. This is becoming a lot more common lately, but there's still so many movies left unsubbed. Same with OVAs and Specials. And yeah, I come out of the shadows if a topic piques my interest and or if people are saying a bunch of stuff that they don't know much about. Oh come on. There is a point because most of the time even the "good" translations are liberal. I really wish real fansubbers would come back. YugureShadowmore said: Well too bad. if you don't like the legal option then you can either watch the dub or not watch it at all. This makes no sense at all. Obviously we could just watch the fansubs. |
| @Drunk_Samurai Liberal translations aren't bad. |
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| They can't be too liberal. Most of us understand a little Japanese, so it's hard to always pretend the subs are true. I want subs to be faithful within reason, so that I don't have to think about the discrepancy too much, and so that the creators' intentions are understood. But some things are lost in translation or contain too many words, so there's a fine line you have to work around. One thing that has always kind of bothered me is how full names are reversed by subbers, in both official and fan translations. It just makes it more confusing and harder to remember when you hear the characters repeatedly saying it in the reverse order of how you read it. And I always found it pointless how The Criterion Collection and other film distributors translate kilometers to miles. I don't remember if anime fansubbers do that. |
Ezekiel said: Ofc it can't be too liberal. But there're plenty of ways to change a literal translation to a liberal one. Name swapping is a preference to people. Some like, some don't. Just like with honorifics and when people replace the "-kun, -sama, etc." with stuff like "Mr, Ms, etc.". You get used to reading the name in the American order when you've watched enough shows. At least for me, it doesn't bother me.They can't be too liberal. Most of us understand a little Japanese, so it's hard to always pretend the subs are true. I want subs to be faithful within reason, so that I don't have to think about the discrepancy too much, and so that the creators' intentions are understood. But some things are lost in translation or contain too many words, so there's a fine line you have to work around. One thing that has always kind of bothered me is how full names are reversed by subbers, in both official and fan translations. It just makes it more confusing and harder to remember when you hear the characters repeatedly saying it in the reverse order of how you read it. And I always found it pointless how The Criterion Collection and other film distributors translate kilometers to miles. I don't remember if anime fansubbers do that. |
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| If you dont like them, dont use them. There are still fansub groups out there, but whether or not the fansub quality is better or not is debatable. For me, Crunchyroll pretty much has any airing anime I would want to watch, with the exception of a few. And its cheap too. I've had it for years and I love it. |
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Good example of a bad job, because this detracts from the quality of the show. Overlap aside, the use YAPPARI is a bad choice. Why should I be expected to understand YAPPARI? When I watched this episode I felt as if information was being kept from me. |
| Anime exists all is well |
| Crunchyroll may be killing fansubs (though they will always exist if kids franchises like Pokemon and Beyblade don't get subbed by them),but they're not ruining the anime watching experience. If anything, they're improving it. Now, we get anime only an hour or two after it airs in Japan and pretty much everything gets subbed now. The only positive I see to fansubs is that they can have better special effects in their subs because what CR uses to sub is extremely limited. However, I'd much rather have less flashy subs than have to wait weeks for shows to get subs and for some shows to never get subbed. |
Pizza said: So it's highly unlikely any of them will sub anime that are more than 10yo, it just isn't profitable to buy the licenses because people will takena look at it, think "Uhh ugly" and watch a novelty instead. While I agree that, in general, we're unlikely to see re-releases of older shows, Funimation has recently announced that they have licensed Scrapped Princess and Vision of Escaflowne so apparently they believe there is still an audience for well-regarded older shows like those. |
KinnikuGuy said: MAL vs Crunchyroll at WaifuMania XXVII in a anime with JP dub but no English subs match when? You're too funny xxxxxxxxxxxDDDDDDDDDDDDD Whatever you do in that regard is up to you o-o If worse comes to worse you can always go on hulu or netflix for anime. I'm not sure to say whether those are any better or not though ... |
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| I wouldn't say killing it, since I can find other subs elsewhere, but there's been a few parts, particular welll known quotes from Oregairu and Monogatari that don't sound nearly as good with crunchyrolls translation. Hachiman's speech about wanting something genuine in I think S2 ep8? and A few of Kaiki's lines. It's rather disappointing, but for the most part, they seem fine. |
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| Fansubs are actually pretty bad in terms of quality, but people just don't know it since they look pretty and viewers don't know any Japanese. CR subs can be good or bad depending on who subs them but they usually aren't too bad. Of course there is always room for improvement, so #sorrynotsorry |
AweObo0 said: Crunchyroll may be killing fansubs (though they will always exist if kids franchises like Pokemon and Beyblade don't get subbed by them),but they're not ruining the anime watching experience. If anything, they're improving it. Now, we get anime only an hour or two after it airs in Japan and pretty much everything gets subbed now. The only positive I see to fansubs is that they can have better special effects in their subs because what CR uses to sub is extremely limited. However, I'd much rather have less flashy subs than have to wait weeks for shows to get subs and for some shows to never get subbed. >Not ruining the watching experience. If anything, they're improving. Yes, because releasing shows with mistranslations is totally improving it. 1 of many fail translations from this season: http://www.crymore.net/2016/11/09/translation-review-horriblesubs-www-working-06/ |
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Tyrel said: i guess thats what happen when you have real boss who give you deadline to quick sub ASAP. shit result.AweObo0 said: Crunchyroll may be killing fansubs (though they will always exist if kids franchises like Pokemon and Beyblade don't get subbed by them),but they're not ruining the anime watching experience. If anything, they're improving it. Now, we get anime only an hour or two after it airs in Japan and pretty much everything gets subbed now. The only positive I see to fansubs is that they can have better special effects in their subs because what CR uses to sub is extremely limited. However, I'd much rather have less flashy subs than have to wait weeks for shows to get subs and for some shows to never get subbed. >Not ruining the watching experience. If anything, they're improving. Yes, because releasing shows with mistranslations is totally improving it. 1 of many fail translations from this season: http://www.crymore.net/2016/11/09/translation-review-horriblesubs-www-working-06/ |
Cross AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
rsc-pl said: I actually don't care about honorifics. Japanese honorifics don't make sense in an English translation. Ezekiel said: They can't be too liberal. Most of us understand a little Japanese, so it's hard to always pretend the subs are true. I want subs to be faithful within reason, so that I don't have to think about the discrepancy too much, and so that the creators' intentions are understood. But some things are lost in translation or contain too many words, so there's a fine line you have to work around. One thing that has always kind of bothered me is how full names are reversed by subbers, in both official and fan translations. It just makes it more confusing and harder to remember when you hear the characters repeatedly saying it in the reverse order of how you read it. And I always found it pointless how The Criterion Collection and other film distributors translate kilometers to miles. I don't remember if anime fansubbers do that. This. And you forgot about honorifics. Generally speaking there is no way that any of official subs would be like this. The only hope is a fansub scene which is almost dead nowadays. I spoke my mind about this a few days ago in another thread. Ezekiel said: I would remove them, since they can be heard anyway, and use appropriate translations where possible, like mister and sir. I would also remove many instances of translations for hai, arigato, sayounara, itadakimasu and all the other little common phrases everybody should know and can hear anyway. A lot of it is easy enough to understand with context and body language, like bowing, so the picture can be left blank. That’s how The Criterion Collection does it, and it’s never confusing. |
Yeah, you are right. Aren't bad. Liberal translations literally are a total garbage. Ezekiel said: I actually don't care about honorifics. Japanese honorifics don't make sense in an English translation. I spoke my mind about this a few days ago in another thread. Wait, what? don't make any sense? I don;t know what you mean, but you are not making any sense here. And I don't know what series are you watching, based on yout toplist - yeah in those series honorifics are totally useless, but you should consider the fatc, that most of slice of life, drama, romance and comedy series are placed in Japan, and watching it without honoricics has no sense at all. And the wors case is when they use "missy", "honey" or other similar shit. It makes me puke instantly. Ezekiel said: I would remove them, since they can be heard anyway, and use appropriate translations where possible, like mister and sir. I would also remove many instances of translations for hai, arigato, sayounara, itadakimasu and all the other little common phrases everybody should know and can hear anyway. A lot of it is easy enough to understand with context and body language, like bowing, so the picture can be left blank. That’s how The Criterion Collection does it, and it’s never confusing. And who said anything about leaving in itadakimasu, arugatou etc? It's dumb. In the other side, translating names of the food, proper names etc makes me puke too. |
furukawa-samaDec 3, 2016 3:11 AM
furukawa-sama said: let katsudon be katsudon please.....Yeah, you are right. Aren't bad. Liberal translations literally are a total garbage. Ezekiel said: I actually don't care about honorifics. Japanese honorifics don't make sense in an English translation. I spoke my mind about this a few days ago in another thread. Wait, what? don't make any sense? I don;t know what you mean, but you are not making any sense here. And I don't know what series are you watching, based on yout toplist - yeah in those series honorifics are totally useless, but you should consider the fatc, that most of slice of life, drama, romance and comedy series are placed in Japan, and watching it without honoricics has no sense at all. And the wors case is when they use "missy", "honey" or other similar shit. It makes me puke instantly. Ezekiel said: I would remove them, since they can be heard anyway, and use appropriate translations where possible, like mister and sir. I would also remove many instances of translations for hai, arigato, sayounara, itadakimasu and all the other little common phrases everybody should know and can hear anyway. A lot of it is easy enough to understand with context and body language, like bowing, so the picture can be left blank. That’s how The Criterion Collection does it, and it’s never confusing. And who said anything about leaving in itadakimasu, arugatou etc? It's dumb. In the other side, translating names of the food, proper names etc makes me puke too. |
Cross AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
furukawa-sama said: You can hear them being said anyway. It doesn't make sense in an English translation because the point of a translation is to make it understandable to foreign viewers. I can't remember all the honorifics. But I'll notice them being said even if the subs don't show them. There are very few instances where they need to be substituted with English words and phrases. "Sir" is totally acceptable.Yeah, you are right. Aren't bad. Liberal translations literally are a total garbage. Ezekiel said: I actually don't care about honorifics. Japanese honorifics don't make sense in an English translation. I spoke my mind about this a few days ago in another thread. Wait, what? don't make any sense? I don;t know what you mean, but you are not making any sense here. And I don't know what series are you watching, based on yout toplist - yeah in those series honorifics are totally useless, but you should consider the fatc, that most of slice of life, drama, romance and comedy series are placed in Japan, and watching it without honoricics has no sense at all. And the wors case is when they use "missy", "honey" or other similar shit. It makes me puke instantly. Ezekiel said: I would remove them, since they can be heard anyway, and use appropriate translations where possible, like mister and sir. I would also remove many instances of translations for hai, arigato, sayounara, itadakimasu and all the other little common phrases everybody should know and can hear anyway. A lot of it is easy enough to understand with context and body language, like bowing, so the picture can be left blank. That’s how The Criterion Collection does it, and it’s never confusing. And who said anything about leaving in itadakimasu, arugatou etc? It's dumb. In the other side, translating names of the food, proper names etc makes me puke too. |
Ezekiel said: furukawa-sama said: You can hear them being said anyway. It doesn't make sense in an English translation because the point of a translation is to make it understandable to foreign viewers. I can't remember all the honorifics. But I'll notice them being said even if the subs don't show them. There are very few instances where they need to be substituted with English words and phrases. "Sir" is totally acceptable.Yeah, you are right. Aren't bad. Liberal translations literally are a total garbage. Wait, what? don't make any sense? I don;t know what you mean, but you are not making any sense here. And I don't know what series are you watching, based on yout toplist - yeah in those series honorifics are totally useless, but you should consider the fatc, that most of slice of life, drama, romance and comedy series are placed in Japan, and watching it without honoricics has no sense at all. And the wors case is when they use "missy", "honey" or other similar shit. It makes me puke instantly. And who said anything about leaving in itadakimasu, arugatou etc? It's dumb. In the other side, translating names of the food, proper names etc makes me puke too. As I said, it's all depends on which kind of series are you watching. And you are saying that you can't remember all of them (no more than 10 are in common use btw) and then: Ezekiel said: They can't be too liberal. Most of us understand a little Japanese, so it's hard to always pretend the subs are true. So who is making no sense here. |
| I don't know if they're all bad, but I do recall watching a few episodes that had really goddam terrible translations. So yeah, I avoid crunchy roll like the plague. |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
| I doubt half the shows would ever get subs without companies like Crunchyroll. Fansub groups are way too busy focusing on the 2-5 most popular shows each season and providing 10 different subs for them instead of subbing as many different unsubbed series as possible. That won't change with or without Crunchyroll. For every unsubbed anime out there there is another anime that has been subbed by 5 different groups competing for their e-penis. I'd rather have crunchy since it means almost all the shows each season get subs, and very punctual subs too. I remember when subs often were weeks or months behind the released episodes and it wasn't fun. I just need to look at the current situation of Youkai Watch (subs stopped after 112 episodes and a new group instead of picking it up from there is slowly releasin one episode a month and currently in the 50s) to never want to go back to a time where that was the norm. In terms of translation details and localization I never saw the big deal. Unlike with dubs you still hear what they say, which honorifics they use and all these things. It's literally the same whether the subs say Handa-san, Handa or Mr. Handa as long as I hear what is actually said. Subs are there to translate the parts I otherwise can't understand, not to notpick over the small details I understand one way or the other. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| crunchyroll > no sub Fuck with sub quality, as long is not troll sub like HKsub, I don't care. |
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DateYutaka said: people who say CR Help the industy are the worst id say aorund 50 yen per episode goes back the the staff if that 1 im Japanese 2 i just want people to get a accuntrre traslation of what i got when talking about accuracy fan subs are a lot worse because the translators' comprehension is not comparable to native Japanese speakers and these translators oftentimes misunderstand what's said or written. but in official subs or dubs i have not seen such major mistakes, so i wonder what makes you believe fan subs are any better in regard of accuracy? |
DateYutaka said: Ryo_Misaki said: when talking about accuracy fan subs are a lot worse because the translators' comprehension is not comparable to native Japanese speakers and these translators oftentimes misunderstand what's said or written. but in official subs or dubs i have not seen such major mistakes, so i wonder what makes you believe fan subs are any better in regard of accuracy? i have seen alot of very inaccaurate traslation in offical traslation they play fast anf lose ot much put scprts side by saide nad you will see the addoits and subtractions that the pro make esappcy in the dubbed version even the subbbe scprit is loaklizex I see your point, but at least official translation does not lose the core meanings even when the translators make those changes. in unofficial translation you will see a number of mistakes which are more serious, and because of that i don't really like fan subs. but if someone like you who are Japanese and very good in English makes translations, no wonder it would be best... ;) |
furukawa-sama said: Leaving out honorifics that don't exist in English and can be heard anyway isn't too liberal. It doesn't make a difference. Ezekiel said: You can hear them being said anyway. It doesn't make sense in an English translation because the point of a translation is to make it understandable to foreign viewers. I can't remember all the honorifics. But I'll notice them being said even if the subs don't show them. There are very few instances where they need to be substituted with English words and phrases. "Sir" is totally acceptable. As I said, it's all depends on which kind of series are you watching. And you are saying that you can't remember all of them (no more than 10 are in common use btw) and then: Ezekiel said: They can't be too liberal. Most of us understand a little Japanese, so it's hard to always pretend the subs are true. So who is making no sense here. Pullman said: Quoting this for furukawa-sama. I don't know what else to say.Unlike with dubs you still hear what they say, which honorifics they use and all these things. It's literally the same whether the subs say Handa-san, Handa or Mr. Handa as long as I hear what is actually said. Subs are there to translate the parts I otherwise can't understand, not to notpick over the small details I understand one way or the other. |
Ryo_Misaki said: DateYutaka said: i have seen alot of very inaccaurate traslation in offical traslation they play fast anf lose ot much put scprts side by saide nad you will see the addoits and subtractions that the pro make esappcy in the dubbed version even the subbbe scprit is loaklizex I see your point, but at least official translation does not lose the core meanings even when the translators make those changes. in unofficial translation you will see a number of mistakes which are more serious, and because of that i don't really like fan subs. but if someone like you who are Japanese and very good in English makes translations, no wonder it would be best... ;) "Japanese" despite not knowing the language and being super fluent in Enlgish. OT: CR supports the industry, though having a premium membership doesn't contribute as much as buying the series bds (1 year of premium is enough for just 1 bd disk, usually containing 2 episodes). as for accuracy, it might not be accurate all the time, but so is the case for fansubs, so why am i not worried. (see my blog post if you don't see the reference here). most people likely don't know, notice or care anyways... |
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
rsc-pl said: Ryo_Misaki said: I see your point, but at least official translation does not lose the core meanings even when the translators make those changes. in unofficial translation you will see a number of mistakes which are more serious, and because of that i don't really like fan subs. Show me where, and which fansubs (which are not a simple edits of CR/Funi like a most "fansubs" nowadays or trollsubs like commie, gg, ddy etc). And well, personally I'm not satisfied by getting only core meaning at all. if you give me the links of subbed chapters and corresponding raws, i will point out mistakes for you. lol i think we both know Japanese full well because i have grown up in Japan and he says his mother tongue is Japanese too. I'm not really fluent in English though. I have studied the language only for a year and am still struggling. |
Ryo_MisakiDec 3, 2016 6:26 PM
DateYutaka said: I didn't know being Japanese automatically gives one insider financial information about the anime industry. Ya learn something new every day! How much goes back to the industry from that streaming site you say you run? people who say CR Help the industy are the worst id say aorund 50 yen per episode goes back the the staff if that 1 im Japanese 2 i just want people to get a accuntrre traslation of what i got * it cannoy ismpple that that cuase how tv anime work in Japan and he fact that the o called simclats emove the japanese tv ads And those Japanese ads don't make the industry any money on latenight shows, since it's the studios paying the networks for airtime. But riddle me this: if the Japanese ads are so essential, why don't the production committees insist that CR/Funi keep them in the streams? They could just refuse to license the shows if streaming companies object to keeping the Japanese ads in. Ezekiel said: I can't help but see a contradiction here. The point of a translation is to make the content understandable, but let's make viewers do more mental work by leaving easily-translatable words untranslated just to make the image <1% cleaner? Not to mention, anime likes to have characters speak offscreen to save budget, so those visual cues aren't always available.It doesn't make sense in an English translation because the point of a translation is to make it understandable to foreign viewers. I can't remember all the honorifics. * I would also remove many instances of translations for hai, arigato, sayounara, itadakimasu and all the other little common phrases everybody should know and can hear anyway. A lot of it is easy enough to understand with context and body language, like bowing, so the picture can be left blank. |
Zalis said: Obviously. I said "remove many instances", not all. I watched An Autumn Afternoon like this a few weeks ago, and it required no mental effort at all. It allowed me to focus on the picture more and I felt treated with more respect. DateYutaka said: I didn't know being Japanese automatically gives one insider financial information about the anime industry. Ya learn something new every day! How much goes back to the industry from that streaming site you say you run? people who say CR Help the industy are the worst id say aorund 50 yen per episode goes back the the staff if that 1 im Japanese 2 i just want people to get a accuntrre traslation of what i got * it cannoy ismpple that that cuase how tv anime work in Japan and he fact that the o called simclats emove the japanese tv ads And those Japanese ads don't make the industry any money on latenight shows, since it's the studios paying the networks for airtime. But riddle me this: if the Japanese ads are so essential, why don't the production committees insist that CR/Funi keep them in the streams? They could just refuse to license the shows if streaming companies object to keeping the Japanese ads in. Ezekiel said: I can't help but see a contradiction here. The point of a translation is to make the content understandable, but let's make viewers do more mental work by leaving easily-translatable words untranslated just to make the image <1% cleaner? Not to mention, anime likes to have characters speak offscreen to save budget, so those visual cues aren't always available.It doesn't make sense in an English translation because the point of a translation is to make it understandable to foreign viewers. I can't remember all the honorifics. * I would also remove many instances of translations for hai, arigato, sayounara, itadakimasu and all the other little common phrases everybody should know and can hear anyway. A lot of it is easy enough to understand with context and body language, like bowing, so the picture can be left blank. |
EzekielDec 4, 2016 11:20 AM
| They once translated Lolicon as Pedophile |
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ItsXolo said: Just wanted to say fuck fansubs and fuck their distracting karaoke effects in the middle of insert songs. Lol. Ezekiel said: rsc-pl said: I actually don't care about honorifics. Japanese honorifics don't make sense in an English translation. This. And you forgot about honorifics. Generally speaking there is no way that any of official subs would be like this. The only hope is a fansub scene which is almost dead nowadays. I spoke my mind about this a few days ago in another thread. Ezekiel said: I would remove them, since they can be heard anyway, and use appropriate translations where possible, like mister and sir. I would also remove many instances of translations for hai, arigato, sayounara, itadakimasu and all the other little common phrases everybody should know and can hear anyway. A lot of it is easy enough to understand with context and body language, like bowing, so the picture can be left blank. That’s how The Criterion Collection does it, and it’s never confusing. They should either be left out or untranslated. Some honorifics don't even have translations. furukawa-sama said: And who said anything about leaving in itadakimasu, arugatou etc? It's dumb. In the other side, translating names of the food, proper names etc makes me puke too. Yeah definitely. No name should be translated. Otherwise we'd have bullshit like "Fishcake Whirlpool" I don't think names of food are translated unless it's one of those awful 4Kids dubs. Pullman said: I doubt half the shows would ever get subs without companies like Crunchyroll. Fansub groups are way too busy focusing on the 2-5 most popular shows each season and providing 10 different subs for them instead of subbing as many different unsubbed series as possible. That won't change with or without Crunchyroll. For every unsubbed anime out there there is another anime that has been subbed by 5 different groups competing for their e-penis. I'd rather have crunchy since it means almost all the shows each season get subs, and very punctual subs too. I remember when subs often were weeks or months behind the released episodes and it wasn't fun. I just need to look at the current situation of Youkai Watch (subs stopped after 112 episodes and a new group instead of picking it up from there is slowly releasin one episode a month and currently in the 50s) to never want to go back to a time where that was the norm. In terms of translation details and localization I never saw the big deal. Unlike with dubs you still hear what they say, which honorifics they use and all these things. It's literally the same whether the subs say Handa-san, Handa or Mr. Handa as long as I hear what is actually said. Subs are there to translate the parts I otherwise can't understand, not to notpick over the small details I understand one way or the other. Those groups don't exist. They're all rippers. If Crunchyroll didn't exist we'd have real fansubs for many shows. Also you're right about localization. It's a good thing to make characters like Hol Horse say "what in Sam hell" just because he wears a goddamn cowboy hat. Localization is shit. Ryo_Misaki said: DateYutaka said: people who say CR Help the industy are the worst id say aorund 50 yen per episode goes back the the staff if that 1 im Japanese 2 i just want people to get a accuntrre traslation of what i got when talking about accuracy fan subs are a lot worse because the translators' comprehension is not comparable to native Japanese speakers and these translators oftentimes misunderstand what's said or written. but in official subs or dubs i have not seen such major mistakes, so i wonder what makes you believe fan subs are any better in regard of accuracy? Hardly any official translation is done by native speakers. Most are done by people who learned the language. xull said: They once translated Lolicon as Pedophile Sounds like a troll sub. |
| I personally never noticed anything wrong with their subs.... |
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Drunk_Samurai said: Hardly any official translation is done by native speakers. Most are done by people who learned the language. Eh, how do you know that? Why on earth do they pick up non-native speakers instead? |
Ryo_Misaki said: Drunk_Samurai said: Hardly any official translation is done by native speakers. Most are done by people who learned the language. Eh, how do you know that? Why on earth do they pick up non-native speakers instead? Because it would be more expensive, obviously. |
Drunk_Samurai said: Ryo_Misaki said: Eh, how do you know that? Why on earth do they pick up non-native speakers instead? Because it would be more expensive, obviously. You can say not every official translator is a native Japanese speaker. But it's not like learners are unable to understand the language perfectly, so long as they are skilled enough as a translator. And even if they make mistakes there's someone else to proofread the translation, while in sub translations there's virtually no one to check the work. |
| @GangsterCat Crunchyroll is not the only one with shitty-ass subs. But yes, they are lowering the quality bar by a longshot, with typos, stupid transliterations of idioms, and at times translating lines to say something completely different to what they actually said. -They lack karaoke (granted not everyone cares about this, but at least having op/ed/insert song lyrics is kind of imporrtant) -They never use good typesetting -Often completely change what characters say to fit someone's whim, as they're so nonsensically unrelated to the japanese dialogue that it can't be justified as "westernization". -They don't use good effect to fit the mood for immersion; such as if someone stutters, having the subs type out each stutter syllable as it's said, or for an example from flip flappers: Advanced SubStation Alpha subtitles were invented for a reason. The incompetence of the professional translators is disgusting. There are countless crunchy/funi subs compared to fansub screenshot comparisons that show up with airing anime that show how notoriously bad they are. The problem with Crunchyroll is that regardless of whether you can choose not to watch them from there, the mass majority who doesn't know any better is having damaged content delivered to them. They may miss out on valuable plot/character development because of it, and never be the wiser. If you're watching an anime, you're watching something from another culture. By negating japanese culture references, things like honourifics, particular speech patterns, and various idioms, you're denying the creators of their creation, and modifying it as you see fit. That's not just with anime, you should never butcher the source culture of any media ever. Besides the fact that it's rude, it's also cutting out part of the story. Anyone who bitches about things like honourifics, doesn't get the reason why their used and/or is a weeaboo-hater that ignorantly equates anything like that automatically to weeaboo. Untranslatable words are untranslatable. It's easier to just encourage the watcher/reader to learn them. @Ezekiel @Zephys @Ryo_Misaki and others If you think fan-subs are bad, then perhaps you're looking at the wrong sub groups. Some sub groups are shit (some are even troll, though often times they're freaking hilarious), and some are bar-none excellent (same goes for pro subs though, for example, Hibike Euphonium subs are good, but the problem is it is different from anime to anime, where sub groups have their own general consistency/style). If you're even vaguely familiar with japanese syntax or phases and idioms, it's very easy to spot when there's an extremely obtuse translation in the script (professional subs have a terrible habit of doing so). The most flattering and comprehensive subs are ones that can stay as true to the japanese dialogue as possible, without breaking English comprehension. Using proper sentence structure for subs is stupid, because nobody speaks with proper grammar. Remember, even the way someone says something, or the word order, speaks to their personality and is an aspect of character development. A lot of people argue about which subs are good and which aren't but i feel a lot of them are just arguing their opinion with limited familiarity of japanese language and social behaviour. Just because subbers are paid, doesn't mean they're going to try harder to do a good job. Fan subbers often do an outstanding job because they're passionate and want to go the extra mile for their own reasons, not for material gain. ...Fact of the workplace: you get paid regardless to whether you do an upstanding job, or merely a sufficient job that doesn't get you fired. Just by the existence of typos, it's clear they aren't hiring proofreaders. Ps: Native speaking doesn't necessarily mean you can translate better. Often times foreigners understand the language better, because natives take it for granted. (Japanese is also far easier to learn than English) Edit: sorry about the wall of text, i just get a lot of after-thoughts. |
GenesisAriaDec 11, 2016 2:52 AM
❀桜舞う空〜 Cute is Power.  “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.” I seek only to improve myself and others. |
| @GenesisAria @DateYutaka I just went to check several CR subs now and immediately found out they the worst ones i have ever seen. Sorry for saying stupid things. Apparently part of what i thought as fan subs actually belongs to CR. But still, when it comes to manga, official translations are way better than fan translations though. Edit: @GenesisAria I have never seen a person who says Japanese is easy who is actually good at the language. From what I've seen they are the very ones who keep making tons of mistakes. If you say its easy tell me how much you are proficient in it. |
Ryo_MisakiDec 11, 2016 3:04 AM
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