Utawarerumono: Itsuwari no Kamen Episode 12 Discussion

GenesisAria said:
Lol the sexual frustration oozing all over this forum....

This was a fantastic episode, lots of reveals, build ups, wrapping up the fluffy stuff. (You could tell this was the last ep before things got serious even without the after-credits.)

Just as all the idiot gripers are all proven wrong: everything building up, and now it begins paying off. It was known from the beginning where this show was going to go, and it was foreshadowed plenty.

Whyktor said:


we haven't said there was no foreshadowing, we said the pacing was off. And I still say it. Foreshadowing is good, but not nearly enough to make the fist half of a show by itself, particularly a 24/25? episode show. Things should have started to move at episode 8 at most not 13, particularly since most episode plots needed to be stretched (bath scene and all...) to be done in 24 min. The series is still not bad, it's just a shame it took so long to start.

Fai said:


Any decent literary professor will tell you that a build up phase i necessary.

26 Episodes having 13 episode build up phase is normal.

Also "plot"(unimportant) =/= characterization(important.

Fai said:

Ep8 post credits scene.

Whyktor said:


and once again, I won't deny the utility of a build up phase, but this one is not well done, she felt empty. It should either have been shorter, or be given more content, as it is now, this was rather underwhelming.

GenesisAria said:
I highly disagree, the buildup was great, and will provide an excellent contrast with what is to come. The story is about bonding, harem AND warfare... not just warfare with a bit of harem/bonding on the side. Evenly balance what is evenly balanced. Any story is about the characters first, plot is second most important, but characters are what it's all about. You can have a story without plot, you cannot have a story without characters (even if you try, inanimate objects can become characters too). Don't misread that either, there's been loads of plot so far, it's just been mixed in with daily nonsense stuff, you have to pay attention. Even if the show were to have ended with this episode, it could have made for a decent series (with a zillion unexplained hooks mind you).

Slice of Life is not somehow less plot-ful or less good writing, or more time wasting / pointless, it's equally valuable, just a different format. Next we're going to see more space filled with action, instead of cute, with plot bits in between. It'll all be the same with a different face, so saying it's bad or it took so long (to get to your beloved bloodshed) is very much disrespecting the art.

GoldenDevilGamer said:
Lol at Haku's servants. I'm telling you guys, Haku is asexual confirmed!

Fai said:
Won't one channel air it on monday next week? I know Tokyo MX is taking week off running a repeat but not sure about others. I don't know whether Crunchyroll issued info in which airing order they will use.

LoneWolf said:
. Lolis,

harems,

fanservice,

fujoshi's and yaoi

but now we have fucking sex slaves in this show?

How did one of the better fantasy anime created turn into this degenerate trash? It's not like there are not good modern reboots/sequels of older anime, (Yamato 2199, Gundam Origin, Mushishi s2, Lupin III: Fujiko), but this sure as hell isn't one of them.

LoneWolf said:
I can't stand to see my memory of this franchise bastardized any further.

LoneWolf said:
This forum is open to people with all kinds of opinions and just because you're in the majority or you've read the source material that doesn't mean your opinion is the "right" one.

I wanted to watch a show about a leader rising up despite being thrown in a world where he knows nothing, leading an army and creating and empire and just kicking ass in general. Instead I get cute girls doing cute things and shipping male characters in a fantasy setting, that they barely make any use of.

I'm sorry I don't play porn games. This is not what I remembered about the first series.

Ckan said:
Uninformed secondary hater scum go home, utawa doesn't belong to you!

MasterMeNL said:
This episode was just uguuuuuuu RIP.
But it looks like nonsensical build-up episodes are over.
Wonder if this will actually manage to be serious at all.

GenesisAria said:
I highly disagree, the buildup was great, and will provide an excellent contrast with what is to come. The story is about bonding, harem AND warfare... not just warfare with a bit of harem/bonding on the side. Evenly balance what is evenly balanced. Any story is about the characters first, plot is second most important, but characters are what it's all about. You can have a story without plot, you cannot have a story without characters (even if you try, inanimate objects can become characters too). Don't misread that either, there's been loads of plot so far, it's just been mixed in with daily nonsense stuff, you have to pay attention. Even if the show were to have ended with this episode, it could have made for a decent series (with a zillion unexplained hooks mind you).

Slice of Life is not somehow less plot-ful or less good writing, or more time wasting / pointless, it's equally valuable, just a different format. Next we're going to see more space filled with action, instead of cute, with plot bits in between. It'll all be the same with a different face, so saying it's bad or it took so long (to get to your beloved bloodshed) is very much disrespecting the art.

Sarnik said:
However, there is still a major problem. The game had ~20 hours to flesh out everything while our characters are stuck in Yamato - the director had to compress that into about 4 hours. Thus, it's natural that he would have to pick and choose which scenes would be animated. To make things short, I believe that he made the wrong choices. Here's a list:

Haku is supposed to have flashbacks to his past, which are meant to properly foreshadow the plot twists later.
Rurutie had more character than just being a fujoshi.
None of the combat maps are properly adapted.
Putting in baths at almost every opportunity.

Like what the others said, the issue is pacing. There is so much fluff in the show that could have been replaced with more interesting backstory or action scenes. You argue that everything so far served as development for what's to come. I argue that the studio could have picked better scenes from the game that would have made the first half more coherent.

Let's examine closely what was done poorly.
Episode 5 stretched out Kiryu and Atui's character introductions too much.
Episode 7 spent far too much time on fujoshi antics.
Episode 8 literally came out of nowhere.
Episode 9 would have made more sense if it was placed during the second half. Moreover, it completely downplayed the intrigue behind these diplomatic negotiations.
Episode 10 and 11 could have been condensed into a single episode.

In my mind, dealing with these issues could have saved at least 2 episodes worth of time -time that could have been used for more interesting stuff.

Sarnik said:
Going to put my two cents here.

Fai said:
I am sure they are saving Haku's flashbacks to the first half of second half, when he actually gets enough stress to have a sort of triggering experience needed.

If the adaptation is to continue being good, I'd guess they are going with both a contrast and a puzzle piece approach with this. The first half built up the life Haku has now and the legend/rumor around Haku that is bigger than the man himself. The second half then would

And I can understand why the first half is shaped the way it is - we will most likely return to many of the events there to look at them entirely differently after the second half ends. That's the kind of effect they are going for. .

IF they are going with the contrast it makes sense to keep quite a few things in the dark. IF they pull it off correctly, it will become a show that very much warrants a rewatch.

Sarnik said:


I don't deny that "daily life" segment during the first half was necessary. In the game, the SoL elements were, without a doubt, intended to contrast with the events of the latter half.

What I and many others have issue with is the director's choice of scenes in the anime. You can have contrast without having to sacrifice the story's coherence. I already mentioned several points that the anime failed to include - all of them could have been implemented and still provide the same picture of Haku's peaceful life. In fact, including them would have made things better because it would have provided context for many of the unexplained scenes that's happened so far.

Just look back on the last two episodes. How did Haku suddenly manage to counter Oshutoru's attacks without being instantly defeated? What are these "skills" that Haku has that everyone seem to be going on about? Why did Rurutie feel threatened by the appearance of the twin priestesses? What's the whole deal about her cooking? These scenes feel out of place because the anime failed to provide the context.

In the game, Haku did take part in fights. He fought with Ukon's men against the insects seen in episode 2, not just whacked a single one away. He fought against the bandits in episode 3 rather than taking their insults. He performed proper missions for Oshutoru in Yamato rather than spending his time cleaning out the gutter. Point is - Haku is competent, and his companions are appreciative of that fact, but the anime screws it up by not giving us ANY indication of it.

I understand the desire to justify what the anime is doing - I want to do it myself as well; however, when the anime keeps throwing fujoshi jokes and filler material at me, I can't help but feel frustrated at the lack of progression.

I'll say it again, and I'll say it as many times as I have to until I drive the point home. The director picked the wrong scenes to animate - things could have been done better.

Sarnik said:


I don't deny that "daily life" segment during the first half was necessary. In the game, the SoL elements were, without a doubt, intended to contrast with the events of the latter half.

What I and many others have issue with is the director's choice of scenes in the anime. You can have contrast without having to sacrifice the story's coherence. I already mentioned several points that the anime failed to include - all of them could have been implemented and still provide the same picture of Haku's peaceful life. In fact, including them would have made things better because it would have provided context for many of the unexplained scenes that's happened so far.

Just look back on the last two episodes. How did Haku suddenly manage to counter Oshutoru's attacks without being instantly defeated? What are these "skills" that Haku has that everyone seem to be going on about? Why did Rurutie feel threatened by the appearance of the twin priestesses? What's the whole deal about her cooking? These scenes feel out of place because the anime failed to provide the context.

In the game, Haku did take part in fights. He fought with Ukon's men against the insects seen in episode 2, not just whacked a single one away. He fought against the bandits in episode 3 rather than taking their insults. He performed proper missions for Oshutoru in Yamato rather than spending his time cleaning out the gutter. Point is - Haku is competent, and his companions are appreciative of that fact, but the anime screws it up by not giving us ANY indication of it.

I understand the desire to justify what the anime is doing - I want to do it myself as well; however, when the anime keeps throwing fujoshi jokes and filler material at me, I can't help but feel frustrated at the lack of progression.

I'll say it again, and I'll say it as many times as I have to until I drive the point home. The director picked the wrong scenes to animate - things could have been done better.

LeanMeanMachine said:


I'm pretty much with you on all of this. I'm still enjoying the anime for what it is, but I definitely feel like the show would have been better if it had stuck more to the game's story and picked the scenes to show us better.

And this is sorta pissing me off, as I am writing a FanFic retelling of Utawarerumono, and I'd eventually want to to cover Itsuwari no Kamen in the same way, but the story in the anime so far is...lacking? That means I would probably go with the way it was presented in the game, but seeing as I don't read Japanese and have only a very relative comprehension of the spoken language, it presents me with an entirely new problem. Hopefully it'll get a subtitled western release....

Anyhow, here's hoping that with the next eppisode in the new year, this show can get an opportunity to start in a fresh, bold new direction AND STICK TO THE FRIGGIN GAME AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!!!!

BlackPunisher76 said:


Well to be fair, the anime was adapted shortly right after the game's release, so it's no surprise if they're not directly sticking to the game as possible (I mean it's a visual novel, would spoil the game) and aims more towards the character interactions and jokes, which is service seeing them for the fans on the first four.

Who knows, there might be a change of direction on the second cour.