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PhantomKurata said: Why the fuck was Tomino was fucking thinking. This is easily one of the worst constructed shows I have ever seen in my life. The story is a broken mess filled with horrific writing especially in the second half. All of the characters minus Uso Odelo and Sucy are very poorly written and they were cringe-worthy to watch. Plus most of the chararters are body bag material instead of actual chararters who have a personalty. The woman in Victory are disgustingly poorly written. Victory Gundam is one of the worst looking shows I seen in any anime. Zeta and ZZ Gundam looks great and well detailed while Victory looks like dogshit. The only good thing about Victory is the music and the openings. In short this is the worst Gundam shows that I have ever seen even beating the likes of Seed Destiny. Least Seed Destiny had good and funny moments through the course of that train-wreck. Victory Gundam offended me in almost every way possible. Fuck this show 2/10 This! Very exact same thought. |
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| This series was weird in a good way, and I think the careful direction obscures some of the oddest stuff. The over the top emotional appeals manage to have impact in spite of themselves, the only things that got a chuckle out of me were Uso's harem of ghosts pointing him towards Katejna and Oliver 'speaking' to Marbet through their child, maybe if they didn't point it out it wouldn't have been as bad. The overall message isn't really misogynist, it's just typical 'let the next generation takeover you old fogies' and of course you need babies, real ones that will grow up and mature, to do that. Also, there is the sense that a capacity to 'fight' spurs evolution and growth, enough that neutering humanity into peace loving infants would lead to their (literal) decay. I mean, it's literally the men who don't understand 'motherhood' who cause all of this shit to begin with. For a series that really shows you how terrible war is, the main idea manages to not simply be that 'war is bad.' Though, that's not like that isn't part of it either. Thinking about how Katejina acts in the beginning, her character makes perfect sense. She can't control Uso to keep him from fighting so she switches over to Cronicle, and spurs him on to fight. They say that Fuala is 'too much of a woman,' Katejina goes way beyond that. (Ok, maybe that's the 'misogynistic' part). Another interesting thing is that Uso most definitely had a mother complex, Katejina looking like his mother is no accident. This finale looked gorgeous and managed to be beautiful in its own weird way. I liked Uso for the most part, what I find interesting is that as the conflict gets weirder (like with the Angel Halo shit) Uso's own actions become more morally gray. It doesn't make it any better that he screams out 'if only you weren't here I wouldn't have to kill you' every five seconds. My favorite parts definitely have to be when they to return to Earth the second time. It's probably the high point of the series. I'm still conflicted about it overall, but definitely did not regret watching it. How much did Anno take away from this? There's that interview floating around. |
syncrogazerSep 6, 2018 2:47 PM
| https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=61888&show=0#msg48719374 September 6, 2018 @syncrogazer FOr me, Anno took at least the "mentality" behind the show's making (against producers, against the consumers, etc) and one little visual reminder of Victory used in EVA could be the head choping ? (glad someone else read this interesting interview) January 31, 2019 @VVill Katejina's case (and the overall show in some ways) is an attempt from Tomino to delve into certain things that most people would say were beyond his grasp. I invite you to read the cross-interview of Anno & Tomino to get more about the series and the character. (I put the URL in Victory's section on my blog page: https://myanimelist.net/blog/Rei_III ) August 1, 2020 St0rmblade said: P.S. Also probably the largest amount of dark-skinned characters I've seen in anime. Was it intentional? Probably a Nadia side-effect? (just look at the beginning party...). At the very least, it was an active decision since from Victory on, dark-skinned characters will always be a thing (for Tomino, I mean). If you happen to find Tomino saying something about it, please ring me. I knew the battles were far more pleasing and watching this series was nothing like the chore Zeta was ! Notice that both ZZ and V were far more easier to go along than Zeta and are the two pet peeves of "UC fans". 0079, the other "easy watch" also being under Zeta in terms of celebration. Shall we conclude that 0079 is the best Gundam out of the two first big periods (original saga, later UC)? @St0rmblade Sorry, my bad english at work here xD I think that his frustration from production meddlings increased with years (especially since he became pretty much free of most contraints for all of his works beyond V). If you have read the post-series interview: right after Victory, he seems rather satisfied with it, given all the production problems. Those problems even show up on screen, through animation and drawings errors and poor quality, something... striking after Zeta (this one had minor technical problems) and ZZ. For me, the main noticeable thing is the long meandering in the beginning-middle chunk of the series. And this is, for me, the result of something he talked about with Anno. I think people tend to "forgive" or rather forget Zeta's numerous problems thanks to the fact it was full of ideas. Poorly or well implemented, sure, but it might be the boldest and rtainly is the most packed of all installments in the series. In terms of pure ideas, I think Zeta and Victory are the two titles that come on top. Now, you must be afraid of Turn A, the second most revered Gundam in the West after Zeta (although it polarizes way more, with a small but strong chunk of the watchers being fervent haters). And looking forward to the infamous G Reco. PS: I forgot about it but since you appreciated the BGM too, I invite you to check other works by the same composer. His music never stands out but always compliments the shows very well (unlike, for example, Yoko Kanno whose deliveries are always great but support the series by standing out on their own). |
Rei_IIIAug 1, 2020 11:31 AM
Rei366 said: @syncrogazer FOr me, Anno took at least the "mentality" behind the show's making (against producers, against the consumers, etc) and one little visual reminder of Victory used in EVA could be the head choping ? (glad someone else read this interesting interview) Evangelion is very beholden to Gundam and Tomino anyway, but how closely together Eva and Victory were released it's hard not to make comparisons. The 'V' wings of light for example instantly jumped out at me. |
| So ends the journey of Victory Gundam.. and I am so glad I watched this show! For me personally, I liked it better than Zeta and ZZ. Zeta's characters just did not appeal to me and ZZ was awesome, but the first 13 or so episodes and then how at the end it reverted back to being goofy was disappointing. I'm surprised by several people's response to this show that Uso was "selfish" and one of the worst main characters of the Gundam franchse.. what?!? Everybody has their opinions, but shit, you people have watched both Amuro and Kamile, right? We had to deal with their endless drama (especially Kamile) which at times could be unbearable, and to the point you stopped feeling empathy for them because they were teenagers. Uso grew up being a man before our eyes by rarely ever whining and bitching about piloting the Gundam, and when he did, it was not an overwhelming focus of the show. Hats off to Uso, my second favorite main character in the Gundam franchise (behind Amuro) so far. Katejna has to be the biggest heel/bitch ever :). When she stabbed Uso, my jaw dropped! What an appropriate way her character ended the show: instead of being granted death, you live with the sins of what you've done and are now blind. At first when she was speaking to Shakti, I seriously thought she was going to shoot Shakti! I would not put it passed Tomino to do something like that. Show had some pretty over the top stuff and some of the writing could be weak. Some of the deaths in the show were forced, but a lot of them were effective since they were plot devices for Uso. I score the show 8/10! |
| I watched the whole show in under a week and I have to say it was a very fascinating experience. I saw the ending scene years ago regrettably so I knew some of the characters outcome already, but it didn't ruin my enjoyment of this show at all. Although it did leave me very confused with the Katejina character. Throughout the whole show they didn't show us a single instance to what actually happened to her at all. There were some scenes that alluded to which side she would eventually go, but I just wish there were more scenes between her and Chronicle or Usso to show us what her thoughts really were. One of the reasons why I wanted to watch this was to know what happened to that pitiful blind woman at the very end of this amazing anime. |
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| Ah, finally finished this and now I'm off to finish the amazing UC timeline with...G-Saviour. Before heading out to finish off my favorite anime timeline, I wanted to leave a few thoughts on Victory as a whole. I feel conflicted when trying to score this show. It did some things amazing and did some things horribly wrong. I'll start with things I liked about the series. I really like the cast of characters on both sides of the conflict. Uso and Shakti were pretty fleshed out and I felt a little bad after finishing the series as I wouldn't be able to watch their lives moving forward. The League Militaire group were great along with the Shrike Team. They got just enough screen time that you could tell they were just a big family going about their business between sorties. Then, you have the main Zanscare cast. Queen Maria was basically a loving god, but had little power over her empire. Chronicle was likable for the first half of the series but kinda fell off halfway through the series. Notice I don't mention Katejina. We'll come back to her in the next section. The setting itself was also quite interesting. As they say, history often repeats itself. Which definitely rings true for Victory Gundam. The earth federation/rebels vs the Zanscare war is clear proof that humanity will never learn. The tragedy of mankind that is Gundam is what has me always coming back for more. The animation and sound are acceptable for the time period considering the length. Not too many reused animations besides the main ones are noticeable...I'm looking at you Wing, but overall good and acceptable. The first 3/4 of the show, though slow, were quite enjoyable as we got to spend time with the League Militaire struggling against the superior Zanscare empire. It was great to see, with limited resources and sacrifices, the League come out on top. The pacing of the show was slow, steady, and a fun ride. Unfortunately, it's that last quarter when the show starts to show strange plots/character developments. The pacing also goes all over the place. There are times when too many things happen at once, and then nothing at all. Which can be expected as a lot of shows suffer from this, but Victory brought it to unacceptable level. For example, one moment, there's a big battle, the next has everyone playing catch in space with Haro. Another one was when Uso comes back from a sortie and gets out of the normal suit only to have it on again and head out not long after. It's like why did he even bother taking off the normal suit. He wasn't even in a rush or anything. I just realized that talking about every bad/confusing thing will take too much effort. I'll make a quick list it here: pedo Zanscare chick bath/chase, insane Maria God cult, avoidable Shakti kidnappings, Uso "outings", meaningless/out of place deaths, Katejina's sudden madness, chronicle's fading importance, Angel halo... This leads me to the clusterfuck that is the ending. This might be a bit of a rant and I'm sorry ahead of time. Angel Halo not only looked cool, but was also an interesting concept. Only problem with it, how the hell did Shakti know of the "hidden" functions? Which was to trap the remaining enemy Zanscare fleet and throw them into space along with the trapped civilians? Weren't they just trying to save them? Then, as if god willed it, Shakti floats from above in a protected ball. (thankfully, but still doesn't excuse it) Another thing I want to touch on. What the hell happened to the Zanscare cast? Katejina did show signs of changing sides/ideologies, but at some point she just becomes almost as psycho as the Fuala bell bitch. For example, Katejina suddenly has erotic feels towards Uso and she's basically edging the whole time while Uso and Chronicle fight each other. Which didn't make sense as she never said to Uso she was going to go to the winner. Hell, Katejina stabs Uso afterwards! (lol) BTW, I guess Uso is a tough SOB because didn't give a shit about the stab. I almost forgot it even happened as it's never eluded to afterwards. The infighting of the Zanscare lacked any true plot. Things were happening, but nothing really interesting came of it all besides Tassilo almost getting beheaded, turning traitor against Kagatie, and kidnapping the queen which he foolishly shoots for some reason. There was also the little thing with Pippinden and Chronicle, but Pippinden just gets exploded by his lover for some unknown reason. I don't even what to get started on that. Then, we have Chronicle. Where the hell did he go? Sure, he was here and there throughout, but he wasn't doing shit. It was like he had cameo scenes in the last quarter. "Oh, there you are princess!" I feel like that's all he said every time Shakti showed up during one of her kidnappings. One more quick thing, there was a lack a closure as a whole: Tomache just disappeared. What is happening with the fallen Zanscare empire now that the main fleet and Mario are gone? It's pretty clear that Shakti didn't become the next queen. Did Kagatie escape the Halo or did he get banished into space along with the innocent civilians trapped in the Halo? Who the hell knows/cares anymore apparently. That's almost as bad as when Puru two died in double Zeta and no one gave a shit. Her skeleton still lies undisturbed on the Argama. I going to stop myself before I get really heated (lol). Though fun, I think I'll conclude things here. I really liked just about everything when thinking of Victory. Even Haro and Karlman were likable characters. It's just the way the ending was handled. It almost becomes a comedy with how bad it is. I initially gave it a 6, but I think the show deserves a 7/10 from me. If handled better, it could have easily been an 8 or even a 9 if the ending was amazing, but it's just too bad. Still better than ZZ. Off to G-Saviour!...You know what, I think I need a break. |
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| Weird how Jeanne d'Arc was still more or less intact after a huge explosion and a kamikaze attack in the previous episode. Chronicle took his mask off before his dying speech hahaha. And the last second before the eyecatch… xD What a way for the "main antagonist" to die. Actually I expected more deaths (most of the crew, including Marbet - I was surprised they all survived). Overall this episode was pretty enjoyable even though it had its problems here and there (some people may call it inconclusive in regards to Angel Halo, etc). Watching a funeral scene with an insert song was sad as usual. I even think that it might've been a good idea to allow Katejina to kill Uso with that knife. I was actually prepared for this outcome! But she only wounded him. Overall Victory turned out to be quite a nice ride for me, despite its apparent problems: antagonists less interesting than possible (Katejina's infatuation with Chronicle could've been shown in more detail, though it was still better than Scirocco in Zeta; Chronicle himself was not a very exciting antagonist apart from showing some signs of "nobility" in the beginning of the show), Shakti was...something conflicted. I definitely enjoyed quite a lot of things though, including some good songs and soundtracks, battles (better than in Zeta), nice supporting crew (Marbet, Warren, Odelo, Haro!!), and of course Uso was a decent protagonist going through a lot of unfortunate things. While the show was seemingly lacking in an overarching theme for the most part, it still ended up being an easy watch (Zeta was harder to consume because of its 50/50 formula; while Victory's battles were even longer than half an episode sometimes, they were more diverse and meaningful). I don't even think that "going with the flow" was a bad thing - individual episodes were pretty good, and I don't think I can pinpoint a really bad episode like I could e.g. in ZZ (Moon Moon, space Hong Kong) - recaps don't count. Though the part with Angel Halo was introduced suddenly, it was thematically connected to Maria's cult, so that was still fine. Also can't forget that Victory had some of the most memorable designs in UC (no, I don't remember every single MS from Zeta), and I actually liked the idea with tires just because how crazy and creative it was. Overall I think it deserves a decent 7/10, I appreciate Tomino's attempt at trying to tackle the womanhood theme (hard thing for him apparently), though the environmental part ended up being pushed behind. And of course all these deaths. P.S. Also probably the largest amount of dark-skinned characters I've seen in anime. Was it intentional? P.P.S. I see there're some manga side stories connecting V with F91 through Crossbone conflict and Jupiter Empire. P.P.P.S. Maria turned out to be a fortune teller (before becoming the Queen), so...somewhat similar story to Lalah ------------- @Rei_III I mean that I can't remember *every* model from the show (it's mostly about the MS-of-the-week types), not *any* model xD Of course I remember the titular suits. There were just too many experimental ones made to sell toys. V sticked to a consistent theme and limited its variety, on the other hand. I also agree that 0079 is the best so far. Funny to find myself at odds with the "popular opinion" (regarding Zeta, ZZ, and now V). By the way, I think I failed to figure out just what "went wrong with Victory Gundam", though Tomino probably wanted me to understand that xD Why did he dislike it so much? Rei_III said: I think people tend to "forgive" or rather forget Zeta's numerous problems thanks to the fact it was full of ideas. Poorly or well implemented, sure, but it might be the boldest and rtainly is the most packed of all installments in the series. In terms of pure ideas, I think Zeta and Victory are the two titles that come on top. You're probably right here, but if Victory is comparable to Zeta in terms of ideas, than it's even more strange that so many people seem to hate it. Maybe it's the effect of having a completely new cast and no fan-favourites (like Char)? The interview was an interesting read, Tomino certainly felt satisfied with his depiction of women... Anno: This is a personal impression, but to me, V Gundam is a story about soil and women. This man is not wrong. I also think this interview helped me clarify the problems with Cronicle's underdevelopment. I know it as the author who created this uneasy situation, where I cannot just say “Die, please”. Is this really you, Tomino? I wish he implemented this idea of making Katejina burn as a sort of alternative ending xD My favourite parts: Recently there have been rice shortages from time to time, and it’s a very good thing in my opinion. Anno: Indeed, we must put a bit of poison inside our works (laugh), particularly for children. xD It's also interesting to contrast the perspective on the audience in this interview with people in the West. I always felt like people there seemed to like "brutal" or "mature" things, so it's pretty refreshing to read about Tomino compromising on his more violent ideas in order not to turn people away completely (like with the death of Uso's mother). I think many teens actually like such scenes nowadays. P.S. Best song of the series of course: https://youtu.be/IhjdGnR172k |
St0rmbladeAug 1, 2020 12:17 PM
| Just a terrible Gundam series all around. |
In sterquiliniis invenitur. |
| Wow, that ending was depressing as fuck. Odelo, Chronicle and Kagatie were killed while Katejina lost her memory and she's blind. At least the rest lived. Ok. They never explained if Uso's dad and Tomache were killed or not. He just kind of disappears at some point during the final battle. The first half wasn't the best but after they went to the space, the anime is amazing. And I like how Haro is relevant here. Its one of the best Gundam i've watched. 8/10 for the anime. |
NurguburuAug 16, 2021 12:21 PM
| BANZAI NIPPON. Nippon is the Land of freedom. Nippon is the Land of Peace. Nippon is the Land of Justice and Prosperity. In Nippon, we trust. We love Nippon, we love Anime. Anime love us, Nippon love us. 日本 |
| At first I thought that anime had great balancing, Bespa was on par with the good guys. Since the "tires" they became painfully superior, like 7 Gundams can't defeat a single Battleship. The last few episodes had superior prototypes, but the Federation had nothing except 1! V2. I felt really bad for Shrieke Team, that they were murdered effortlessly, really that was a bad performance. Franny was hit by a breaking beam rifle barrel and exploded right away. Angel Halo was a bad device to be set as last front it didn't even work properly and everyone inside died anyway, seriously that could been solved much faster. Shakhti, baby and Uso survived at least and the stupid bitch, really what was wrong with her?! Overall this anime had too many crazy woman "boya" preying on Uso. The darker setting was partiality very good, but it escalated into some gruesome for no reason plot device. The best part was the third quarter, otherwise I would not recommend this gundam show ,it was more bad than fun. I watched it out of curiosity but expected something much better. |
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| It's been so long since I watched it I barely remember it. I do remember a lot of women dying in it though lol. |
| NUMBER ONE VICTORY GUNDAM YEAH ZANSCARE WE BOUT TO GET DOWN 10 KILLS WILL MAKE YOU CRY RIGHT NOW JUST WIPED UWIG TOWN Hm. Ok. Sorry. I'm finding really hard to forming an opinion about this. The setting and a lot of concepts were great, maybe the best ideas Tomino had at rthat point in time; too bad that the writing and the general consistency of the plot were godawful, even worse than Z, and that one basically didn't even had a plot. Uso was a great lead, while every other character received an actual personality far too late (Shakti and Marbet at half of the series, Katejina, well... in the second to last episode. Chronicle just doesn't). The plot builds itself like it's improvising, adding layers upon layers of inconsistencies just go forward. I won't mention the casualties, everyone already talked about those and yeah, maybe 2 out of 10 were actually emotional and weren't an attempt to hide the incapacity of the script to make something useful with those characters. It's truly a shame. I'm convinced that with a different approach this could've been even a great Gundam series. All the right elements were there. Uso, Shakti, Marbet... I don't think I'll ever forget them. Some reflections about war and how humans make use of it were in fact interesting! And the final positive message was solid and believable. It's just that potentially great characters and concepts were tampered by A LOT of nonsense and plain inability to manage a story that I think was too ambitious for Tomino and his team. 6/10. I can't hate it, but I just couldn't enjoy it like I did with the original and ZZ (yes, ZZ, a solid 8/10 in my book. Stacce.) Or like I did with War in the Pocket, but that's just too good, why even compare it with something else. |
| anyone get a good laugh from chronicle's death, very un-pilot like death. |
| RIP Odelo, you were the best BOYAAAA T_T. Chronicle was really an underwhelming antagonist, he was neither intelligent or a good pilot. I believe Katejina had a higher body count than Chronicle. The Angel Ring was shenanigans but i guess it could be explained by New Type powers or the Psycho-frame technology. The series had a really weird potrayal of women but at least the children were really good characters. The lack of politics heavily affected Victory Gundam because it felt like the war had no winning side and the only end goal the viewer could care for was for the children to return safely. Victory had an amazing start, but I think ZZ is better overall. |
AndiuxyApr 11, 2022 8:15 AM
| 「Self Aware Cringy Weeb」 |
| I haven't read the comments here and I haven't read/watched any criticisms of Victory Gundam yet, but coming off the show I seriously don't understand the hate I've seen for this series. It's not as clean as 0079 and it doesn't hit reach the quality of that Zeta does at its peak but it was still thoroughly enjoyable the entire way through. The only bad episodes were the recaps in my opinion. There were some boring episodes here and there, but overall Victory Gundam left me with a feeling I haven't felt since the first time I saw Zeta. The fact this series is rated similarly to F91 and ZZ is a joke. This series is so far beyond those that it's unreal. I'll definitely be looking into other opinions about this show but I'm confused by why people are so down on it. All the major complaints I've seen so far apply to most of the other Gundam media I've seen so far, and those are reviewed really well. There are definitely bad things about it, like the way the first 4 episodes are structured and one really bad subplot. Those aside, the majority of the show was surprisingly good. Overall I found this show really engaging, emotional powerful and entertaining. I also really liked a lot of the ways it changed things up from previous UC entries with things like how the final story arc plays out. I'd rate it my 3rd favourite Gundam TV series behind 0079, with Zeta as my favourite. I almost never post comments here but I felt this show warranted some praise given the bad reputation it seems to have. I look forward to finishing off the last bits of UC Gundam I have left. |
| Everyone in the comments raging at Katarjina surviving when it was the episode highlight for me. Her fate isn't much better than death but I was sick to see every female character of the show bite the dust for no reason other than Tomino having clear issues with women. |
| a very powerful ending for a serie that i unexpectedly loved so much, seeing all the hate that it receives. i loved the protagonist and his character development, most of the cast and the themese of the show, even if some design are a little whacky and some story choices are a little questionable. the soundtrack was godly amazing, maybe the best of the franchise to me. odelo's death shattered my heart, i really liked him, and i think katejina's fate was worse than death, losing the sight, memories and all her money was a right punishment for her horrile actions. maybe a controversial take but a solid 9/10 for me. |
| ''Touch the darkness inside me'' |
| Definitely one of the best Gundam endings, not really Zeta, but up there with CCA. Shame Odelo died, but overall a really solid series, it's pure Tomino. |
| For a show that's supposed to be dark and depressing, there were a lot of goofy, unnecessary and absurd scenes that overall I can't take it seriously at all. I'm sorry, but Chronicle's death actually made me chuckle, and he wasn't even the random character no one cared about... The thing is, I cared little about most of the characters and what was happening. Even ZZ, as much as atrocious it was, managed to bring out some emotions. Here everything was just either bland or outright nonsense. Uso isn't a bad protagonist and for once people seemed to notice he's just a child and there's no place for children in the war... But for some reason the fanservice and harem went wild around said child and while I can get the teenage perspective getting attracted to everyone around, the adults in this show somehow acting all serious on his behalf and not just humouring is just wtf. The weird bath lady aside, Katejina is the worst offender. Why on earth this was even remotely considered as something reasonable for her inner conflict and motivation? In the end, she presented more like an attention whore rather than a complex or interesting antagonist. I've read a bit of the interview between Tomino and Anno, where Tomino said how he specifically focused on writing women, and no, this is not how you write women. Nope. Just because you throw around themes of womanhood and motherhood doesn't make it anything better. I much prefer his earlier characters like Sayla, Haman, Lalah, Four, Mirai, etc. They were written just fine. For the love of god, just write them as people, not some alien species you have to wrack your brain over. This is by far the worst UC instalment, it lacked coherence in the story, the direction was all over the place, the events held little significance, the characters felt more like cardboard puppets thrown around to do whatever. Occasionally, just when I thought that it might not be as bad, it became even worse. I honestly wanted to give it a chance, but this had maybe one or two good moments and good music, and that's it. |
TenApr 18, 8:28 AM
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