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pab1994 said: Even thought i agree with you that Japan has those resources i read some of Edogawa's works and i cant tell that some stories, cases and even some characters are inspired by Sherlock. We have to separate here. Yes, Rampo was inspired by Arthur Conan Doyle at several points in his writing career. Early Akechi is also practically lifted from Poe's Dupin stories; you could make a case that The Murder Case on D-Slope is copying Murder in the Rue Morgue at every second turn. That doesn't mean though that this anime is inspired by either the Doyle novels or the modern TV adapation. There has been no mention by anybody on the team regarding this, and considering the vast history of mystery-fiction AND Rampo-adaptations in Japan, there is literally no necessity to be inspired by a foreign show that had a very limited cult following. That's like me claiming that Sherlock was clearly inspired by Yokomizo's Kindaichi Kôsuke series. |
Waiting for: God Eater (PSP) 私が、探偵だからよ。 |
| Episode was sightly more enjoyable this time. The serial killer from previous episode is back and Kagami tries to use him as his victim before Akechi stops him. |
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seizonsha said: Not sure if you're trolling or just acting plain ridculousIt was an OK episode, though to my taste it was rushing through things too much again. The general idea the director had, invoking a retro-style of 90s anime storytelling, really shines through with all the fanservice and very loud and flashy direction choices. I would like to like this more, but the general pace and the general shrillness of many scenes just ends up making me find it obnoxious. It IS a very anime'esque anime, taking almost every cliché from the book, so maybe this just isn't for me. On the other hand, if we took out some of the fanservice and instead gave that time to built a little more atmosphere, maybe that'd be nice. CookingPriest said: I guess some people are not used to western style storytelling Hell, again, that's clear inspiration from Sherlock which also used separate cases and completely separate storylines with the ongoing mysteries persisting through them. *sigh* could you please stop pushing the idea that this is inspired by Sherlock? Japan has a a much more booming mystery-scene than most Western countries, they don't even need to look for us to get an idea like this. Anyone with common sense can see the similarities to Sherlock....For once, Fai is actually spot on with his analysis.....Also, if you or anyone else that's bashing this series would actually stop and do some research, you would see that Edogawa's works were heavily inspired by western mystery novels and the writer/creator of Sherlock Holmes is one of Edogawa's biggest inspirations Regardless of that stuff, this series is still fucking amazing |
TokoyaJul 23, 2015 8:17 PM
| This was a pretty interesting episode. Idk why but I kinda figured Kagami would be 20 Faces (or he's possibly a copycat, but I guess we'll find out next week hopefully). I really wanted to see that fat piece of shit die lol, if only Akechi showed up like 2 seconds later. This anime isn't perfect but I think it's starting to gain some momentum, hopefully next episode is just as good. That view of Kobayashi's ass was disturbing, but Hashiba's reaction was priceless lol |
| People on MAL refuse to actually enjoy watching anime. Your taste in anime isn't a personality trait. MAL is literally just anime Twitter as its own website lol. |
seizonsha said: It's ok you have a point but still even thought i'm not a vast reader of Holme's stories i can tell there is some resemblance.pab1994 said: Even thought i agree with you that Japan has those resources i read some of Edogawa's works and i cant tell that some stories, cases and even some characters are inspired by Sherlock. We have to separate here. Yes, Rampo was inspired by Arthur Conan Doyle at several points in his writing career. Early Akechi is also practically lifted from Poe's Dupin stories; you could make a case that The Murder Case on D-Slope is copying Murder in the Rue Morgue at every second turn. That doesn't mean though that this anime is inspired by either the Doyle novels or the modern TV adapation. There has been no mention by anybody on the team regarding this, and considering the vast history of mystery-fiction AND Rampo-adaptations in Japan, there is literally no necessity to be inspired by a foreign show that had a very limited cult following. That's like me claiming that Sherlock was clearly inspired by Yokomizo's Kindaichi Kôsuke series. |
pab1994Jul 23, 2015 10:09 PM
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Takuan_Soho said: It's ok i didn't mean to say this was based or a copypaste of Sherlock, just that i see some resemblance. Oh and yes i have to check out Black Lizard someday, thanks for make me remember haha.pab1994 said: Even thought i agree with you that Japan has those resources i read some of edogawa's work and stories, cases and even some characters are inspired by Sherlock. No, I have enjoyed watching the Sherlock videos posted here, but I haven't seen anything that really suggests that this is based on that show. That the Black Lizard is sexually obsessed with Akechi goes back to the original novel, and this was given a very modern twist in the 1968 Japanese movie called "Black Lizard" (check it out, it was WTF before WTF was even coined). This is not to say that perhaps some ideas were taken from Sherlock (which is very popular in Japan I discovered), but having the Black Lizard willingly self-suffocate herself to the point she loses bodily control is something not even Sherlock would think of. But it is in keeping with the Japanese meme. Edit: Having said that, and having started to poach the Sherlock videos, the show is really brilliant. |
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| I dont care that people arent caring for this series, I fucking love it! And that twist at the end! |
pab1994 said: It's ok you have a point but still even thought i'm not an vast reader of Holme's stories i can tell there is some resemblance. I'm sorry if I came across as too brash, it's just that I spent some time writing about mystery in Japan and it's not even funny how much the Japanese mystery novel as a genre-piece is being ignored... There are similarities, but that's like saying Agatha Christie is inspired by Sherlock, and Van Dine, and Sayers, and Queen, and Bentley...of course they all owe a lot to the Holmes novels. This is an homage to a writer who was inspired by very liberal translations of Doyle's novels about 70 years ago. Drawing a parallel between Black Lizard, a 1930s femme fatale, and Irene Adler, a one-time character who was made into more than she was by fan-canon...that's just handing flowers to the wrong person |
| Waiting for: God Eater (PSP) 私が、探偵だからよ。 |
| The case itself was interesting... Everything else was unnecessary: -The gayness -the trap -the masochist the real autopsy report And I really wanted to see that fatass die |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
seizonsha said: It's ok it didn't sound brash at all and it seems that you have more knowledge than me so it's obvious that you want to defend your ideas. Thanks for those examples, even thought Holmes books are not my top tier i need to read some more haha. Oh and yes i'm totally with you in that one, the Japanese mistery genre is a hell of a ride and most times sadly ingored. Again thanks for the asnwers :)pab1994 said: It's ok you have a point but still even thought i'm not an vast reader of Holme's stories i can tell there is some resemblance. I'm sorry if I came across as too brash, it's just that I spent some time writing about mystery in Japan and it's not even funny how much the Japanese mystery novel as a genre-piece is being ignored... There are similarities, but that's like saying Agatha Christie is inspired by Sherlock, and Van Dine, and Sayers, and Queen, and Bentley...of course they all owe a lot to the Holmes novels. This is an homage to a writer who was inspired by very liberal translations of Doyle's novels about 70 years ago. Drawing a parallel between Black Lizard, a 1930s femme fatale, and Irene Adler, a one-time character who was made into more than she was by fan-canon...that's just handing flowers to the wrong person |
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| oh great, they added a stupid masochist girl too. they really don't want this show to be taken seriously, huh. |
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| wow... she came..... a lot.... like seriously da hell? o.o |
| Now we go back to what it used to be in earlier episodes. Great. |
| I like shounen-ai/yaoi but it really doesn't suit this series. It takes away the seriousness of it and just makes it annoying. This would be better if each story had more development (more episodes). And that ending though. Kagami was probably one of the people I did like but I'm interested to see if this continues next episode to see if he really is Twenty Faces. |
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| I have a feeling that Kagami's sister is very dead, and for a long time, and his final acceptance of this fact (instead of getting imaginary calls from her) made him to become Twenty Faces. I haven't read any of Ranpo's novels btw. Guess now is the time to read some) |
PNDRetro said: Toothie said: Well that plot twist was... predictable and expecting. Though it's funny how he was so similar to Light. You know, wanting to kill people who deserved to be punished, etc. And I'm just wondering why the "Horror" genre was removed from this anime? Would anyone care to explain? isn't the horror tag usually there because an anime is scary or supposed to be scary? this isn't if anything it's intense it's supposed to be the kind of show that's a nail bitter Well, dead body chairs, concrete figures out of children, killers for justice etc. So far I think that's pretty brutal imo. And show doesn't necessarily need to be "scary" or have jump scares for it to be considered a horror. There's lots of anime i can name that has a "horror" genre but isn't scary, but brutal like this show. And I just asked since the genre was there before, and it fit well with the "mystery" genre. |
seizonsha said: *sigh* could you please stop pushing the idea that this is inspired by Sherlock? Japan has a a much more booming mystery-scene than most Western countries, they don't even need to look for us to get an idea like this. Taking inspiration from =/= Copying it. Life is Strange takes inspiration from both Twin Peaks and Veronica Mars yet I don't see anything remotely identical or same in either of three. There are A LOT of stylistic choices in Ranpo Kitan inspired by the current Sherlock modernization(its not surprising since Sherlock is kind of BIG THING in japan). I already covered a lot of it before(like approach towards modernizing the works being the same, the storytelling approach is the same(episodic cases with intertwining story arcs, instead of usual anime-like serialization) the style of relaying information being the same, the idea of representing some of the events through the unique and bizarre lens of the protagonist's mind, the focus on psychological state of both Akechi and Kobayashi and the "flaws" their genius minds represent to them as people, the BL aspect, etc) While Black Lizard was indeed in same style of "relationship" with Akechi in the novels, the approach to her introduction is clearly inspired by Irene Adler's introduction in the modernized adaptation - You have the sado/maso aspect(which was in original novel), with the more sexualized introduction than in original then you have the "straight man"(funny to use that phrase for him tbh) , Hashiba being weirded out by her, followed by her showing off that she knows more about them than they expect to, while continuing to mostly pay attention to Akechi's mindgames. The original black lizard also was more of criminal mastermind/thief, while this one seems to function as actual fixer which is also the alteration that was done to Irene. Its not a copy but the show clearly draws inspiration from that modernization which is to be expected. |
AhenshihaelJul 24, 2015 2:11 AM
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| Like seriously. If Ranpo wanted to make a girl character, he should have made a girl character! Kobayashi is a trap that is probably an actual girl. That curves, butt, body, voice, even using dress. Trap in its finest. That glasses guy is also into yaoi... So Kagami is the 20 faces, a vigilante huh? I like how they return that fat guy from the last episode, otherwise it wouldn't be fun to see an only 1 episode random killer. |
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| Kagami being 20 face came out of no where what the fuck |
| huh |
Dexthepleb said: Kagami being 20 face came out of no where what the fuck The first time we see Kagami he says this to Kobayashi:  While small that clearly shows his interest in this case because of similar pattern to what 20 faces does. Then we have this scene, which seemed weird:  And the follow up:  Knowing who Kagami seems to be now both scenes make more sense now because OBVIOUSLY he would be disturbed about the idea of having to go after a teenage boy and obviously he would be disappointed about the possibility of a teenage boy as possible target. Then we have his phone calls which Akechi notices, which most likely is the moments when Kagami gets information about to-be-released criminals or some shit. And the follow up at the end of the second episode:   Then we have this discussion at the end of the third episode about the killer being a repeat offender who escapes the punishment, which convinced me Kagami will play some sort of vigilante role:   And oh look it transitions right into Akechi monitoring 20 Faces website:  |
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CookingPriest said: Taking inspiration from =/= Copying it I hope you don't mind me keeping this discussion up, because I actually find it interesting, even though I don't agree with your idea at all. I hope you don't mind us throwing some more posts at each other...maybe we can even spin a separate thread from it. I was not trying to say that you meant copying. But I doubt they even needed to take larger inspirations from Sherlock, for several reasons: There are A LOT of stylistic choices in Ranpo Kitan inspired by the current Sherlock modernization(its not surprising since Sherlock is kind of BIG THING in japan). Sherlock was popular in Japan, yes. It was only slightly more popular than other mystery programs though and was mostly so well received, because of an already existing interest in mystery-fiction. They way some people here put it is, as if Sherlock was as big as Avengers or any summer blockbuster in Japan. like approach towards modernizing the works being the same, the storytelling approach is the same(episodic cases with intertwining story arcs, instead of usual anime-like serialization) I don't know if you haven't seen many mystery anime and dorama, or where you get this idea that this is especially "Western" or even typical of Sherlock. Kindaichi Shounen, Yakushiji Ryouko, Himitsu, Psycho Pass, Nijuu Mensou no Musume, and even Meitantei Conan all deal with an overarching character-driven story while presenting episodic or arc-based cases. the style of relaying information being the same, the idea of representing some of the events through the unique and bizarre lens of the protagonist's mind This is a big aspect of Japanese mystery and detective fiction since the 1930s. Especially when developing the sub-genre of unorthodox mystery fiction (look up, Dogura Magura, Kyomu e no shomotsu, etc.) the "description trick" or 叙述トリック became a huge thing in Japanese mystery fiction. the BL aspect Akechi and Kobayashi have been paired together since almost the time when the novels were released. There are whole research papers about the "subliminal gayness" in Ranpo's novels, and how him keeping Kobayashi as a houseboy was suspicious. Also BL and mystery fiction is generally big in Japan. Several authors know that they have a fujoshi-fanbase and toy with that (especially big with that is Arisugawa Arisu). Take a look at this here, please. You have the sado/maso aspect(which was in original novel), with the more sexualized introduction than in original then you have the "straight man"(funny to use that phrase for him tbh) , Hashiba being weirded out by her, followed by her showing off that she knows more about them than they expect to, while continuing to mostly pay attention to Akechi's mindgames Please also consider the wealth of Black Lizard spin-offs that sprung from not only the novel, but also from the cult-popularity of the 1968 film with Miwa Akihiro in the titular role. I wouldn't say it's impossible that they took the existence of Sherlock into consideration when making Ranpo Kitan, but the already existing wealth of both mystery as a genre and modernizations of classical mysteries (both Japanese and Western) makes it unlikely that it was THE inspiration for this. |
| Waiting for: God Eater (PSP) 私が、探偵だからよ。 |
| Why didn't you let him kill that pig! He so deserved it... >_> Also that woman in the basement, she was quite amusing. |
| Wait, what? They really released that fat fuck because of "insufficient evidence"? Please tell me it was just to trap 20 faces and that he'll be back in prison. How would they have insufficient evidence anyways unless the police were utterly incompetent. |
LordU said: They said it was a trap repeatedly.Wait, what? They really released that fat fuck because of "insufficient evidence"? Please tell me it was just to trap 20 faces and that he'll be back in prison. How would they have insufficient evidence anyways unless the police were utterly incompetent. |
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| So is Hashiba gay? Akechi a pretty cool character. Really liking this show so far. It's been more interesting/dark than I expected. Kagami reveal was somewhat surprising. |
| Jigsaw is back. :D |
| the woman pissed on herself that was weird |
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| Meh, this Anime's officially a BAD Summer Anime for me. That fucking camera panning to his ass and the glasses dude reacting to it. Yeah, nope, I can't take this anymore, sigh. Meh, I'll give this Anime two more episodes to get good. |
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| maybe something happened to his imouto |
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| Alright I'm dropping this one. |
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| That fat guy deserves to die. |
| I like crazy masochist lady. But I kind of want a case that spans longer than one episode. But Akechi, you know you could have waited a bit. I wanted to see that fat guy go. Unless Shadow man will do the deed |
Takuan_Soho said: CookingPriest said: And oh look it transitions right into Akechi monitoring 20 Faces website Bu....bbb....but those were all coincidences... Another clue was that he never received phone calls from his "sister" when he was with other people, and indeed was willing to go out drinking with his partner after looking at his blank phone showing that he knew she wasn't going to call. Which brings up the question why did he ALWAYS get calls when he was at Akechi's apartment. Answer: Akechi suspected him and was feeding him phone calls timed to reveal a connection. That should be revealed next episode. Curious as to what you mean by reveal a connection? Considering how 20 Faces is suppose to be the eternal Arch-nemesis of Akechi, I find it hard to believe that Akechi had sufficient information prior to this episode to suspect a connection between Kagami's and the "current" 20 Faces enough to even test him, no? At least up till now, I don't believe I've observed Akechi deliberately testing Kagami, nor observing Kagami's reactions in relation to other cases. Max I could conclude from this episode would be that Akechi is sufficiently familiar with the original 20 Faces to know that the current one is a copy-cat, but exactly who to suspect, it kind of felt like Kagami hadn't revealed any cards up till this episode, when the fatigue of putting down 15 deranged individuals in 1 weeks time wore him down enough to make a mistake (aka the cement powder). Not doubting your theory, mind you, just wondering if I'd actually missed something from previous episodes that you picked up on. I'm loving how they are tying in elements of past cases together with the current case. It gives a better feeling that not all cases are mutually exclusive, and that there is some semblance of connection between them all. After reading up about the Edogawa's series, I'm really interested in the relationship between Black Lizard and Akechi. Hopefully they'll give us sufficient flashbacks on THAT story in the near future. |
HESTIA   APPROVES |
| [center][size=90]To be honest, I'm not bothered at all with the 'mystery' of Kobayashi's gender identity. It doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the show. What does though, is the use in this episode of cheap fanservice, which was incredibly disappointing to me. Okay, I get it, Hashiba likes Kobayashi. I read a post here that proposed Ranpo's works as perhaps being one of the origins of shotacon, because Kobayashi acts very pure and innocent. So yeah, okay, I can understand the slightly twisted presentation of such a theme in this anime, but I really felt like the fanservice was unnecessary. Same goes for the Black Lizard, who seemed like she might be a decently interesting character for about 0.2 of a second. She didn't seem to contribute anything to the plot at all [ oh wait, who am I kidding, bewbs = plot amirite ] and that time could have been better spent on other things. The solving of the crime seemed a little rushed and anticlimatic, as it has been in other episodes. Don't get me wrong, I love the creepy tone that approaches taboo subjects in a matter-of-fact and detached way, but I think there needs to be more emphasis on the crime-solving aspect. I would have a lot more appreciation for the characters' abilities if we could get a glimpse into what they are thinking [ as is the case in Death Note ]. Instead, they just seem to figure things out on their own, and I just think..."oh. That's it. Alright". Part of what makes a mystery show good in my experience is being able to kind of speculate on solving it yourself, but with the dearth of information given in this show, and the characters doing some work behind the scenes that we are unaware of, it just seems like the crimes are taken care of easily and with not a lot of mental exercise given to the viewer. Lastly, even though Minami is probably meant to emphasize the emotionless approach to death in this show, her appearance is simply unnerving and out of place for me. |
 ［ ａ ］ ［ ｉ ］ ｗｏ ａｔｓｕｍｅｔｅ たくさん の あい お あつめたら ≽ tumblr ことば で きみ に とどけよう ≽ deviantart みえない きもち お かたち に したら ≽ last.fm こころ の なか まで とどく から |
| Missed the details... again. I didn't expect Kagami to be the killer (until too late). I DID have my suspicions when Kobaiashi said "Please tell me the details" very enthusiastically, like he already caught on something. But I dismissed them when Kagami said himself that there have been many copycats before now, but this one is the real one (kind of self-incriminating, thought it wouldn't be the first time in history). I didn't notice the powder he left behind at Akechi's place. Though I DID notice the suspicious tiredness, I didn't realize it might be because he dealt with freaking 15 bodies in one week (damn I'm slow...). I still don't think he's the real one (because it ended in one episode, and I expected more?). And those calls from his sister... Like some already mentioned, I think she's dead. And I think that Akechi knows that too (he is usually quite indifferent to everything, but he teased Kagami about being a siscon a couple of times). But if that would be the case, wouldn't that be... known? I mean, personnel files aren't that hard to get, for someone with special privileges. Unless Kagami changed his name... or face (Shadow-man? I'm reaching too far, I know). When I saw that fat shit from the previous episode... and when I saw that grinder... I really really hoped that he would go thru that. It reminded me of Dexter. I aproved. Too bad... I still can't get over Minami... |
| wooow that was weird ! but the case was actually cool, tho I didn't expect Kagami to be involved |
Bibi_Punk said: No. The comedy bit with Kobayashi and Hashiba does jack all for the story and adds zilch to their character, the interrogation with Mrs. Masochist provides nothing relevant to the case, Autopsy-chan is more mood whiplash, and the mystery itself is pure, unadulterated shit from busty top to trap bottom. Before, the aesthetics were just emphasizing the important players, but now it's highlighting whatever it damn well pleases or whatever fits the budget; the TV channels and random slaves have figures, but one lone guy guarding Mrs. Masochist doesn't? No. Seriously. How the Hell does this show keep getting worse? Why are you even still watching this? Save yourself from this garbage. I honestly only watched it this far to laugh at it. |
おれはPigAmericanです おれはばか i am average american man i enjoy bad game runescape |
| It was a good episode. Did not expect Kagami to be twenty faces. Also, the appearance of Kuro Tokage was very... interesting. |
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Farscape1 said: Unless this series takes a sharp turn and starts building on an overarching story really fast it is going to end up a total failure. I guess you were not paying attention to the show then. |
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| So we got some super incredibly hot ass chick with big tits and a rocking bod who's a hard core masochist and horny as hell... Maybe this show isn't so shitty after all! |
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