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| I don't really understand why people are dissecting this scene with such detail. The feasibility of that specific scenario isn't particularly germane to the story. What's important was that the legs were programmed to kill Mizuka and Kai wasn't able to stop her. Those are the significant details to be gleaned from that part. It just isn't particularly important how logical their actions seem to you. I understand that sometimes certain aspect of stories need to make logical sense, but I don't feel like this is one of them. They could have also made the legs electrocute her to death. It just wouldn't have had the same dramatic effect. |
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neontaster said: I don't really understand why people are dissecting this scene with such detail. The feasibility of that specific scenario isn't particularly germane to the story. people like to nitpick Yoshiteru said: WTF with this episode, it doesn't fit with my logically thinking Fristly, why the hell Kai's so dense, after Mizuka yells to him for help, dis Kai is frozen like shid lets say each step took like a second 20 seconds later after Kai figure out whats happening just like the 5 mins till Namek to blow up but it took like 19 episodes/40+ hours for it to happen Yoshiteru said: Secondly, why he can't just destroy the power of the machine it should be on her belt. is Kai even physically strong enough to break it with his bare hand? do you even when what the thing is made out of? do you expect him to use the traffic cones by the cliff to break it? i dont see any good size rocks in the background for him to break it with Yoshiteru said: Finally this hopeless Kai doing suffix instead throwing her to the side dude Kai was desperate and needed to act fast Yoshiteru said: we're talking about robot here, there must be unbalance side of it and what if those robot legs are well made? Yoshiteru said: (since a No. 2 fall to side as well) also i think difference between a large heavy ass Robot legs with Jun mentioning that it stiffen for a moment plus extremely heavy wind and human size robot legs that are made to help disable people walk with some sort of super hacker controlling it... |
Brigs77Feb 9, 2013 11:40 PM
| HOLY FRICK THINGS BE GETTING REAL SERIOUS REAL FAST I wonder if Subaru is ok.. Wouldn't want to see two main characters killed off out of nowhere in the same episode. bastek66 said: Sound of cracking spine - terrifying. |
 If you really want to fit in, just put Legend of the Galactic Heroes in your top 5 and have it be the only 10-rated anime in your list. |
| Gosh this episode was depressing to see Mizuka go. At least the series is at its serious point from on. |
| Ohshit That death (with the spane cracking and the final thud sound) hit me right in the gut. I think the only way to stop the legs would have been to pin her down lying on her side. However, that would have required a second tackle (the first one proved useless because whatever you do, the body would come to rest lying on back or stomach, both positions the legs can easily stand up from) Also, I don#t think simple unbalanceing would work for the legs. they look pretty sophisticated and have prolly a built in gyroscope together with software that allows them to automatically keep the balance, just like you normally would (that being said, I think that's what Mr. Giant Robot is missing) Anyways.... WHY ISN'T IT NEXT WEEK YET? >.< |
| I want Rambo in a mecha-suit with a laser-chainsaw gun that fires nuclear warheads, fighting the love-child of Predator, Alien, a group of Bangladeshi terrorists, and Satan. (Actually that would be a pretty sick show) - StopDropAndBowl |
| lol I like the way they get your hopes up that the day's saved and then end up really killing her in the end... I think the guy survived unscathed though. |
Brigandi said: people like to nitpick Yes, questioning an implausible death scene. Nitpicking. Right. Wordsmith said: Also, I don#t think simple unbalanceing would work for the legs. they look pretty sophisticated and have prolly a built in gyroscope together with software that allows them to automatically keep the balance, just like you normally would (that being said, I think that's what Mr. Giant Robot is missing) The main muscles in controlling balance are the the abs and hips. The robotic parts were only attached to the legs and spine. That said, she was walking. Therefore shifting her weight onto one foot as she took a step. Doesn't matter what balancing machine you come up with to justify it. There is nothing that will not tip if it's balance is focused on a single stand. AnimeHAwk616 said: also, would someone wanna tackle a person again even though it was proven useless, and they realize they just broke someone's spine doing that, causing them to cough out blood? Wasn't proven useless. It delayed her quite well. Yes, she broke her spine but you honestly can't say he was too afraid of hurting her to try again when she was walking to her death. Not as if anything else had any results. Besides, tackle her from the side, she falls on her side, and legs can't get back up. |
 "I always take life with a grain of salt, ...plus a slice of lemon, ...and a shot of tequila." |
| The final minutes were rather disturbing, yet touching. |
| Robotics;Notes had a pretty slow start, but now it's finally getting interesting. Can't wait to see what happens next! |
 ^ Why isn't this updating... |
| GAWD DAMMIT KAI WAS USELESS anyways IG/Noitamina likes killing people this week, a supporting character died in both Psycho-Pass and R;N...wow I wonder what happened to four eyes... |
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| Oh fuck, my spine hurt for her. I hope Mr Pleiades is okay. |
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| Mizuka and Subaru, please let a miracle happen!!! why was there a stone , please! noo! whyy!! Mizuka!! SO sad sad, but Kai did what he could Hope Subaru is fine, this is so sad the eps were so good lately |
AidanAK47 said: @Ajunky, I will concede to those arguments. Except the struggle to top her. I still think that a good shove would be enough. Aren't you underestimating those robot legs And if a shove isn't enough? Hm? What now? You sound like that you think that you know that you can do better |
Brigs77Feb 10, 2013 4:37 PM
| It happened. |
| Oh man, when she started walking out of her control, I knew she was heading for that broken fence spot. First I was figured tackling her down to the ground would be find. Then her spine cracked. That was horrifying. Then I figured that although it was water under there, maybe when she hits the water, the machine would stop working and Kai could just jump down into the water and rescue her. Cue them showing that it's a huge cliff. Last I figured that maybe somehow she'd still be okay with the water. Then I hear the very un-splashlike sound of her falling on that flat rock... This episode was horrible in killing my hopes. |
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| What the fuck...someone died in Robotic Notes..? Seriously..? I just..what..the fuck.. |
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| Apparently so! Nevertheless as it was mentioned before... I believe also that this episode was the turning point in the series! Remember that in Steins Gate the turning point was also just past the middle of the series! Still, putting plot aside I have a question regarding the soundtrack in this particular ep. If anyone could help me I would appreciate it! I am trying to find out what track is being played at the final part of this episode. More precisely the track that starts when Kai realizes Mizuka lost control of her support machine. Can someone help? |
| son....of...a....fuck |
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AidanAK47 said: You also can't say he wasn't scared to tackle her again, just because she was walking to her death. The death is the latter, the spine cracking was the present. People usually don't look beyond the the present when in a state of panic. If he really wasn't scared to break her spine again, why didn't he tackle her again? I'm starting to think people are basing their speculation on their own thoughts, disregarding the protagonist as if he is just cardboard. I'm sure he has a brain, and feelings, so I'm sure there is a reason he didn't tackle her again, and resorted to irrational actions, such as trying to push her back from walking off the cliff. Either he thought it was useless, or he was afraid to hurt her again, or maybe both. The legs really didn't give him much time to do anything when she was on the ground, but at the price of delaying her alittle, she was injured. So If I were him, I would have avoided tackling her again as well.AnimeHAwk616 said: also, would someone wanna tackle a person again even though it was proven useless, and they realize they just broke someone's spine doing that, causing them to cough out blood? Wasn't proven useless. It delayed her quite well. Yes, she broke her spine but you honestly can't say he was too afraid of hurting her to try again when she was walking to her death. Not as if anything else had any results. Besides, tackle her from the side, she falls on her side, and legs can't get back up. Also, you can't really assume the legs can only move straight. I'm sure it has more joints that that, otherwise, how can she turn when walking? It probably has a way to get back up from a side ways position, like probably forcing her hips to straiten, or something like that... However I have no evidence for that, just like how you don't have evidence that pushing her on her side would be successful. I think it's kinda pointless to argue over something that can't be proven. Really, this is all speculation based on our own interpretation of a fictional story |
| Seriously doubt there was anything he could have done to save her. Some fucked up shit man. Hope Subaru is alright. |
| unholly fuck shit got extra serious |
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| Intense episode. Mizuka's suite/leg was either hacked by the Exo Group/Committee of 300 or the "Kagome Kagome" tone bugged her leg to go that shipwreck/accident that happened 5 years ago....i think |
| OMG and Mizuka was just your everyday convenient store teller. I wouldn't expect her to die. WTF I was just...I can't even.... this is some serious shit. Must continue watching O__O. |
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| I just thought I should post this since the suit is eerily similar to the anime http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/11/cyberdynes-robotic-hal-suit-marches-into-japan-hospital-trials/ |
| As a viewer, I cannot accept this death as realistic at all (though I will continue watching this show in the hopes that some good will come of it and to hopefully see a Gundam). This was an utterly contrived death, and not just because there was a convenient gap in the railing. This is not a tragedy to me. A real tragedy occurs when a death is unavoidable after a character has tried all reasonable actions. We should've seen Kai attempt all reasonable actions, before giving up and realizing it was truly unavoidable. He seemed to be focused on pushing or pulling her away from/towards the cliff. Except there was one convenient action that he could've taken and didn't. He didn't try any other direction! And I've seen all the conjecture about what the legs could've done, but I mean he didn't even try! It was the first thing I thought of! It was so obvious! When someone dies because another character had the Idiot Ball, it isn't a tragedy, it's bad writing. |
billyea said: As a viewer, I cannot accept this death as realistic at all (though I will continue watching this show in the hopes that some good will come of it and to hopefully see a Gundam). This was an utterly contrived death, and not just because there was a convenient gap in the railing. This is not a tragedy to me. A real tragedy occurs when a death is unavoidable after a character has tried all reasonable actions. We should've seen Kai attempt all reasonable actions, before giving up and realizing it was truly unavoidable. He seemed to be focused on pushing or pulling her away from/towards the cliff. Except there was one convenient action that he could've taken and didn't. He didn't try any other direction! And I've seen all the conjecture about what the legs could've done, but I mean he didn't even try! It was the first thing I thought of! It was so obvious! When someone dies because another character had the Idiot Ball, it isn't a tragedy, it's bad writing. It's been stated before, those legs could of easily been programmed/hacked to reorient itself to that path, no matter what direction it's set, it's set on that path to doom. And to be fair, those were rather realistic attempts by Kai. Tell me this, how the heck do you calculate each and every possibility while in panic mode? Plausible, sure, but likely? Nope. You don't really think rationally while in a rush and you tend to repeat the same thing over and over in hopes something different happens. I think you're demanding a bit too much here. You clearly have the easy view on things from an omnipotent perspective, but being in those shoes of Kai? I doubt you'd be such a critic. |
 Just this once, I'll fulfill whatever your wish is. |
Tavor said: You clearly have the easy view on things from an omnipotent perspective, but being in those shoes of Kai? I doubt you'd be such a critic. The problem with applying the "people don't think rationally when stressed" argument is that its misapplication in fiction is a deus ex machina that can be used to excuse any character's actions. And when it can be used to excuse anything, it's not really an argument anymore. Not talking about Robotics;Notes exclusively, but whether a character thinks rationally when under stress seems to be entirely dependent on whether the plot requires that they make a rational decision. But perhaps this can be excused if everyone was still in-character. Has Kai been shown to be a character that can make decisions under stress? Sure! In fact, it's a plot mechanic that his brain actually works faster when under stress. So from that, we can conclude that stress isn't a problem. Except it's only a certain level of stress. Oh and this time he wasn't THAT stressed. He was just stressed enough to make bad decisions. Too many excuses required to maintain believability. Too many external explanations required (outside of what was actually shown in the episode) to say this wasn't contrived. |
billyea said: The problem with applying the "people don't think rationally when stressed" argument is that its misapplication in fiction is a deus ex machina that can be used to excuse any character's actions. And when it can be used to excuse anything, it's not really an argument anymore. Not talking about Robotics;Notes exclusively, but whether a character thinks rationally when under stress seems to be entirely dependent on whether the plot requires that they make a rational decision. But perhaps this can be excused if everyone was still in-character. Has Kai been shown to be a character that can make decisions under stress? Sure! In fact, it's a plot mechanic that his brain actually works faster when under stress. So from that, we can conclude that stress isn't a problem. Except it's only a certain level of stress. Oh and this time he wasn't THAT stressed. He was just stressed enough to make bad decisions. Too many excuses required to maintain believability. Too many external explanations required (outside of what was actually shown in the episode) to say this wasn't contrived. Okay, actually, I think those are valid points, especially about Kai working under stress; seemed the perfect opportunity for his slow-mo ability to kick in. In fact, I think I would preferred that to happen. Of course, it's all wishful thinking, the writers (I'm assuming) are constrained to adapt the VN closely as possible. |
Just this once, I'll fulfill whatever your wish is. |
billyea said: Tavor said: You clearly have the easy view on things from an omnipotent perspective, but being in those shoes of Kai? I doubt you'd be such a critic. The problem with applying the "people don't think rationally when stressed" argument is that its misapplication in fiction is a deus ex machina that can be used to excuse any character's actions. And when it can be used to excuse anything, it's not really an argument anymore. Not talking about Robotics;Notes exclusively, but whether a character thinks rationally when under stress seems to be entirely dependent on whether the plot requires that they make a rational decision. But perhaps this can be excused if everyone was still in-character. Has Kai been shown to be a character that can make decisions under stress? Sure! In fact, it's a plot mechanic that his brain actually works faster when under stress. So from that, we can conclude that stress isn't a problem. Except it's only a certain level of stress. Oh and this time he wasn't THAT stressed. He was just stressed enough to make bad decisions. Too many excuses required to maintain believability. Too many external explanations required (outside of what was actually shown in the episode) to say this wasn't contrived. I wrote this in this thread before, but they could have easily had the legs electrocute Mizuka to death. It played out the way it did for dramatic effect only. The importance of that scene was that the legs were programmed to kill her and that Kai couldn't stop it, not whether or not his actions in that scene made real world logical sense in that kind of situation. |
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neontaster said: I wrote this in this thread before, but they could have easily had the legs electrocute Mizuka to death. It played out the way it did for dramatic effect only. The importance of that scene was that the legs were programmed to kill her and that Kai couldn't stop it, not whether or not his actions in that scene made real world logical sense in that kind of situation. I did see what you wrote before, and hoping you would bring it up here again! I wanted to talk about it. I can accept the legs as a dramatic vehicle. It was clearly dramatic, I mean Kai's expression was "FUUUUUU- I couldn't do anything!" and the scene was filled with tears. It was all very emotional. But I think being able to step back and look at a work of fiction and ask "well, did this make sense?" is a virtue. A work should obviously make sense and be able to be analyzed on multiple levels, just like real life, otherwise it wouldn't be relatable to us humans in reality. A story relies on reality as its base to build realistic characters and a believable plot. I just wasn't able to enjoy this scene because I just kept thinking "but why?" and "why didn't this happen?" and I kept comparing the Kai to myself and what I've seen of him so far, and his reactions were just so disappointing in this scene. I expected better of him. I know he can do better and I refuse to think he's a completely weak or irrational character, so I'm going to blame this one on the writers for stumbling on his characterization this episode. |
billyeaFeb 11, 2013 8:13 PM
billyea said: I did see what you wrote before, and hoping you would bring it up here again! I wanted to talk about it. I can accept the legs as a dramatic vehicle. It was clearly dramatic, I mean Kai's expression was "FUUUUUU- I couldn't do anything!" and the scene was filled with tears. It was all very emotional. But I think being able to step back and look at a work of fiction and ask "well, did this make sense?" is a virtue. A work should obviously make sense and be able to be analyzed on multiple levels, just like real life, otherwise it wouldn't be relatable to us humans in reality. A story relies on reality as its base to build realistic characters and a believable plot. I just wasn't able to enjoy this scene because I just kept thinking "but why?" and "why didn't this happen?" and I kept comparing the Kai to myself and what I've seen of him so far, and his reactions were just so disappointing in this scene. I expected better of him. I know he can do better and I refuse to think he's a completely weak or irrational character, so I'm going to blame this one on the writers for stumbling on his characterization this episode. Fair enough. I dunno. I just didn't feel like that scene had enough of that so that it was noticeable. I also tend to give them the benefit of logistical restrictions. He could have knocked her on her stomach or side, or kept doing it over and over again and many other things but why stretch out a scene that long? They could have also had the legs run her off the cliff before Kai could even react, but why make it so short? Because of that I allow them some dramatic license. It's not like the function of her legs is important to the story - like their strength or capabilities was previously brought up for whatever reason and suddenly they behave differently. If it was something like that, then that scene would have had to make perfect sense, but it wasn't. I definitely understand the desire to be analytical and have stuff make sense, but it doesn't always have to make perfect sense. Kai's condition in itself doesn't really make any real world sense - your reaction time is the function of the synapses traveling to your brain, being processed, and then a reaction forming and being sent to the muscles to react - so in that case, something would have to make his brain process things and send muscular instructions faster than it already does, which is basically the speed of light minus the processing time. That don't make a lick of sense, but who cares? It's an interesting plot point and I'm sure it'll come into play eventually (it already has but in minor ways). So yeah, I guess he could have done other things, but the point the creators are making here is that it wouldn't have worked anyway. I think that's why they had her break her spine and shove him aside. There was also the element of her accepting her own death. She clearly felt very guilty for something (I theorized a few episodes back that her and Senomiya the elder were somehow involved in the SS Anemone incident and felt guilty over it) and she didn't want Kai risking himself for her. That's good enough for me. |
neontasterFeb 11, 2013 8:27 PM
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| THEY CAN'T DO THIS TO US! Why did they have to end it, at that particular moment?! Now I have to suffer through another agonizing week waiting for the next episode... Curse good anime writers... >__> |
Tavor said: Okay, actually, I think those are valid points, especially about Kai working under stress; seemed the perfect opportunity for his slow-mo ability to kick in. i dont know about that. to me it looks like the slow mo needs to build up in the robo battle contest was Kai was like really tired and the match against Subaru/Mr.Pleiade was intense next one Kai was climbing that tower to close that antenna during that intense storm and almost fell to his death 3rd trying to force it out with electro shocks, cold water ect to beat a cheating opponent in Kill Ballad to stop a army of robot and lets say Mizuka walking towards her death happens in like around a minute |
Brigs77Feb 11, 2013 11:29 PM
| If they kill Mr. Pleiades I am so done. |
| The turning point... always an eye opener. |
Wecc said: All Hail HaXXspetten King of the Loli Traps! |
| Don't tell me that Misa murdered Mizuki. |
| MIZUKA SAN!!!!! NO! OKABE! WHERE THE FUCK IS OKABE RINTAROU?! SOMEBODY PLEASE SEND A D-MAIL! OMG! .... Well... Looks like things will kick into high gear now. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Sorry- length. Skip if you don't want to read 'nit picking' KappaG3 said: bloggbigg said: Too much plot determined stupidity for one episode. Ok- let's troubleshoot this barely functional robot in bad weather with uncertain controllers. Ok- let me warn you about digging into this conspiracy, while I ignore the the more immediate threat of conspiracy myself. He had her suplexed- she was in the turtle position- Why let go? Do robots give up? Apparently they have antigrav- but whatever. Also- no sense going for the batteries- no way they'd design that thing with easy replacement. Ah well whatever. I have to agree. I don't understand how many in this thread are not seeing how this episode felt a bit off. First of all, while being a fan of Stein's;Gate, I'm trying to like this anime too. And it isn't bad, but certain things are so... what. Say, monopoles and the whole "let's build a robot thing". The only thing we've got so far is 5 episodes of preparation and then, magically, a fully functional robot up and running. And this happened twice. Also, what happened to the actual Airi? Nobody knows, she just disappeared from the show. Finally, as you already stated, driving a giant robot under heavy wind is pants on head retarded. They can build a gundam and then they don't even calculate how much force it takes for it to fall down, or at least consider the option of bad weather? And why didn't Kai try to push Mizune to the side in the first place? That would've been the most obvious thing to do, regardless of what would have happened next. "LMAO THERE'S A CLIFF BEHIND US LET'S PUSH THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION MAYBE THE LEGS WON'T GO BERSERK KILLING US BOTH" And lastly, those legs looked fixed to the ground with super glue. Otherwise Kai would've been perfectly able to flip Mizune off easily. As I said, I want to like this show, but each week odd questions keep coming up... I realized quick that even though this anime is great, it's science... not so much so- but whatever- I can forgive. They also have a pile of monopoles- which are either dropping 'just for them'- or are all over the world & no one gives a damn. Airi in theory got 'killed' by the server cleanup (or whatever- I forget the details), though why Sister Centipede remains is a question, so that makes you wonder (Not even gonna go into cloud/server distribution/redundancy). As for the robot- they had to drive it (to safety at least), but running alongside it to troubleshoot it is pretty dumb- especially since it's barely tested, and the operator is a noob (apparently Kai (normally designated operator) can't screw up 2 things at once, so they had to sub him for one). As for the tragic death (which may not be- longshot she survives): I won't mention the bicycle exercise- which she could have saved herself with. (You're on your back, you prop up your waist with your arms- not such a stretch when you realize physical therapy likely included this ) I assumed that the legs had GPS, but why Mizune just gave up is a mystery more than Kai's slow reaction/cluelessness. No way she could have seen that rope near the cliff and not thought "If I can just grab that". Nope "I must die alone, Kai you bastard (POW)" or even "drag me to that tree." (grabbing anything overhead and lifting wouldn't work somehow). Ok- happened too fast- whatever. I definitely can't mention any foresight- like the 'seat belt knife' (which would have worked here). The story is what it is. To address the point of 'nit-picking' (other posters)- If harry potter ended with... I dunno, Santa Claus joining the fight against Slytherin, people would be so 'wtf'- because the level of writing suggested reasonable evolutions for story elements, not crazy 'this must happen' shoehorning to get plot points checked off. (Though I'm sure it would still be entertaining & people would criticize anyone not agreeing Santa was a natural to join in the fight). She had to die. Simple. Fine. Whatever. Maybe... have them already at the edge? Make it happen too fast to react? Stay within the framework of 'clever people' we've learned to respect so no one can wonder 'why'- He unlocks reports, she answers mysteries. Neither can undo straps- which are usually velcro. Just sayin'. That's not exactly nitpicking- that's disappointment. Kai's been unearthing and trying to make sense of the conspiracy sense the beginning. Mizune had some clue, and saw the previous crisis & robot parade and must have an idea of being 'at risk'. Apparently the companies don't do 'recalls' or 'service upgrades' in this world (because 'handicapped people walking to their deaths' is both forgivable and expected?)- though I dunno- an 'emergency shutdown' is way unreasonable thing to expect when people who don't want to die stop buying your product because- I dunno- it just may kill them... Anyway- all that aside- Kai thinking conspiracy x hours a day, finding tangible evidence of genius & 'not crazy' (real AI, installations, and a 'cryogenically' (not- but something) girl, etc)- maybe he's got no right to actually be surprised when a girl wearing listed 'at risk tech' does crap that was mentioned in other crap he worked hard to unearth- but he was- whatever... lame. I can go with that. Bottom line- It just could have been better-- not because I can think of ways (blah blah)- just because (until now), it mostly has been. |
bloggbiggFeb 13, 2013 5:19 PM
If you aren't watching Zetsuen no Tempest (Civilization Blaster), you should be. Brilliant writing with legit plot twists. Just finished blog entry 'Japanese Authors Take Heed' Series (JATH)! Entry 03: Proactive Villains, Reactionary Heroes'. |
| This whole episode reminded me too much of the "Another" anime. That's not a good thing. Well, we'll see how it plays out. I'm totally expecting Mitchie to come in and take one for the team and go splat. He'll probably show up miraculously and push Subaru out of the way. |
Cirris said: This whole episode reminded me too much of the "Another" anime. That's not a good thing. Well, we'll see how it plays out. I'm totally expecting Mitchie to come in and take one for the team and go splat. He'll probably show up miraculously and push Subaru out of the way. Love Another! If anyone runs with an umbrella down the stairs we'll know something's up LOL |
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