mayukachan said: RollTheJoint said: the problem is not the endless killings. the problem is that religions kill evolution. Do they? It used to. But was it a bad thing ? Endycia said: RollTheJoint said: beside the fact that it is all a HUGE fucking lie. it's ridiculous How is it all a huge lie ? It hasn't been proved by science that a higher being exists, that's correct. But saying it's all a huge fucking lie might not be the best way to approach it, considering how sensitive the topic is. There are theories revolving around it, some scientists believe that god exists, some don't. It's all theory they can't even prove that god doesn't exist can they? Nothing has been proven yet. But of course you have the right to believe that everything's a huge lie. Well said~ |
Endycia said: +1RollTheJoint said: beside the fact that it is all a HUGE fucking lie. it's ridiculous How is it all a huge lie ? It hasn't been proved by science that a higher being exists, that's correct. But saying it's all a huge fucking lie might not be the best way to approach it, considering how sensitive the topic is. There are theories revolving around it, some scientists believe that god exists, some don't. It's all theory they can't even prove that god doesn't exist can they? Nothing has been proven yet. But of course you have the right to believe that everything's a huge lie. |
Baman said: Absalom- said: The core "virtues" are completely separate from religion though. Being honest, trustworthy and helping your kin is a evolutionary beneficial trait, a thing that will always be valued.But realistically, if religion never existed, people would have just found something else to create problems over, and the concept of virtue would likely be less common among people in general, so most likely not. You have a point. My thinking there was that if they're taught and encouraged through organized means, through dogma, they might "catch on" more easily. But aye, on the other hand virtues are certainly encouraged naturally in other ways as well. |
| I can understand if people want to believe in something. Organized religions? Come on, it's a human construct to control folks and make money. Now, I'll go pray to the invisible pink unicorn. And it exists, I mean scientifically because Im a scientist and I believe it. Seriously? But I keep forgetting you guys also spawned creationists and such, letting them teach in schools ffs |
RollTheJointMar 6, 2015 1:17 PM
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| well I keep thinking if I do bad stuff I will go to hell and it keeps me from doing bad stuff (also I just don't feel like killing someone ect) |
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Absalom- said: Yea, it probably works to some extent. But you don't have to know many religious people to see what hypocrites most of them are.You have a point. My thinking there was that if they're taught and encouraged through organized means, through dogma, they might "catch on" more easily. But aye, on the other hand virtues are certainly encouraged naturally in other ways as well. |
____________Bash said: oh the irony lolgeniobastardo said: You sure like to assume 'things' don't ya? What do you expect? he's American after all. |
Endycia said: I can guarantee you that you have, you just aren't aware of it.Honestly, as someone who was born into a religious family, I have yet to find most of those religious people, you refer to.. I've never met someone like that outside in the world. I've found a few on the internet but not outside IRL x) Christianity in particular suffer from a plethora of ridiculous and schizophrenic commandments that contradict each other, of which most modern believers (thankfully) only cherry pick the easy ones that don't involve, say, murdering your children if they insult you or stoning whores after having sex with them. But still, even just following the mainstream New Testament stuff is pretty fucking hard, and people being people will invariably be selfish and self serving. And thus, they come in conflict with the religion they claim to follow. Most of them won't think too hard about this of course, or may never realise it at all, but unless they're essentially Jesus or Mother Theresa, they will be hypocrites in one way or another. |
| Most religion made stuff worse. It has held man back, but even worse than that it has given them an excuse to kill one another for not believing a certain religion or following stupid and useless rules that just get in the way and make their lives worse. Like Islamic extremist are killing thousands of Christians just because they refuse to believe in Islam. |
| "It's time for beatin' the homeless to the oldies!" - Hajime Muroto. |
Rarusu_ said: bolbyinc said: Can I get an example? Soviet union, North Korea, China this is your dumbest comment on the forum atheism was part of the ideologies, not the driving force ..like ISIS might cut off a guy's hand for smoking, but they're not driven by a big anti-smoking campaign a person with a will to do evil things is probably a little more likely to be an atheist than a christian, because christianity has no benefits for them, but atheism doesn't give people the will to do evil things unless those things lead to better things it's irrelevant that some regime or another happened to have atheist leaders at some point in time (and remember, if religion 'doesn't exist', this oppression of religion wouldn't even happen if the regimes happened again anyway) the soviet union has had high ranking orthodox christians but let's move on.. just so you know: |
 ~ join the MAL suicide pact! ~ ~ ★☭★ ~ ~ embrace nuclear annihilation! ~ |
| It depends on the religion. If everyone became Taoists, I think the world would become a wonderful place. |
| Religion is my thing. You people are fucking boring without religion. Its one reason I hate atheist and agnostics, there's nothing about them worth knowing, their philosophy is shallow, pretentious, useless, and flaky as hell. Gimme my turtles aikaflip said: It depends on the religion. If everyone became Taoists, I think the world would become a wonderful place. This person knows nothing about Daosim. Sorry its not your fault, its not like they teach it in school. Plus its kinda hard to define, like Hinduism, and when we don't know the history of a religion, we often assume good things because we like their philosophy. |
Muan142Mar 6, 2015 2:34 PM
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| Organised religion causes conflict a lot of the time. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
Muan142 said: aikaflip said: It depends on the religion. If everyone became Taoists, I think the world would become a wonderful place. This person knows nothing about Daosim Lol. I know about Taoism. And my answer wasn't meant to be taken completely seriously. |
I don't know about that but I know the world would be a terrible place without you Bash  |
| 'The way of the wang is long...and hard' |
| Religion does bring a lot of compassion into the world too. Compassion isn't really news worthy though. Our current society encourages people to be very self centred which is a bad thing. If we all look after each other in our own communities then everything is good. Also diversity is good. If you got rid of religion you would get rid of a big branch of philosophy. The less diverse people views are, the more narrow minded they become. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| Fuck religion. Religion only brings shitstorms. |
Swagzilla said: I don't know about that but I know the world would be a terrible place without you Bash aaaaaaaa t-t-t-thx >///////////////////////< |
Involtus said: Rarusu_ said: Soviet union, North Korea, China this is your dumbest comment on the forum atheism was part of the ideologies, not the driving force Atheism or rather anti-clericalism was absolutely a driving force in the torture execution of tens if not hundreds of thousands of monks and priests under communist governments. Also the destruction of hundreds of ancient holy sites. Why exactly do you think it was necessary to torture priests into renouncing their faith publicly? Because they were neutral towards religion? |
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Muan142 said: Involtus said: this is your dumbest comment on the forum atheism was part of the ideologies, not the driving force Atheism or rather anti-clericalism was absolutely a driving force in the torture execution of tens if not hundreds of thousands of monks and priests under communist governments. Also the destruction of hundreds of ancient holy sites. Extremist views are bad it doesn't make a difference what name your craziness falls under, they are horrible people. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
black1blade said: Muan142 said: Atheism or rather anti-clericalism was absolutely a driving force in the torture execution of tens if not hundreds of thousands of monks and priests under communist governments. Also the destruction of hundreds of ancient holy sites. Extremist views are bad it doesn't make a difference what name your craziness falls under, they are horrible people. Now I won't call anyone crazy. They were perfectly sane, well as sane as I am. They had their reasons as much as any of us do. |
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Muan142 said: Atheism or rather anti-clericalism was absolutely a driving force in the torture execution of tens if not hundreds of thousands of monks and priests under communist governments. Also the destruction of hundreds of ancient holy sites. Why exactly do you think it was necessary to torture priests into renouncing their faith publicly? Because they were neutral towards religion? it's not atheism for the sake of atheism they didn't say 'let's create an atheist state' that's what i mean by 'it wasn't a driving force' it's for the sake of creating a base on which the nation can become unified in its morals and free from the influence of religious organisations separate from the state itself it's not the finish line it's not the driving inspiration it's a milestone one can continue from |
~ join the MAL suicide pact! ~ ~ ★☭★ ~ ~ embrace nuclear annihilation! ~ |
Involtus said: Muan142 said: Atheism or rather anti-clericalism was absolutely a driving force in the torture execution of tens if not hundreds of thousands of monks and priests under communist governments. Also the destruction of hundreds of ancient holy sites. Why exactly do you think it was necessary to torture priests into renouncing their faith publicly? Because they were neutral towards religion? it's not atheism for the sake of atheism they didn't say 'let's create an atheist state' that's what i mean by 'it wasn't a driving force' it's for the sake of creating a base on which the nation can become unified in its morals and free from the influence of religious organisations separate from the state itself Yeah, it was. Nobody creates a state or really does anything big for just one reason, but they really did hate religion and clerics in particular. You don't go to the trouble of founding an actively atheist state at all in a country of religious folk your going to have to oppress unless you really hate religion. They knew what they were doing and their government might have been far more effective with religions support and Marxism doesn't call for the active oppression of religion, but the destruction of religion was one of thier prime objectives |
Muan142Mar 6, 2015 3:09 PM
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Rarusu_ said: Thats not even the point. I pointed out that one of the most horrible actions in history has been made my atheist governments. I'm not saying that atheism is bad or the driving force. The thread is about if the world would be better off without religion, and my answer is no. Bad actions can be made by irreligous and atheists as well. That's the point. bad actions can be done by both religious and irreligious people but who ever thought otherwise? nobody sane people dislike religion because it's just another way for people to abuse power, and more than that, because many religions have harmful ideas inside them yes, they're amongst good ideas, but you can teach these to people without spirituality and without the bad ideas and people dislike irreligious because they're religious, and don't think man should be the sole decider of morality, because we can't be trusted just 2000 year old books written by men can "one of the most horrible actions in history has been made my atheist governments" and again, the USSR was great |
~ join the MAL suicide pact! ~ ~ ★☭★ ~ ~ embrace nuclear annihilation! ~ |
Muan142 said: Involtus said: it's not atheism for the sake of atheism they didn't say 'let's create an atheist state' that's what i mean by 'it wasn't a driving force' it's for the sake of creating a base on which the nation can become unified in its morals and free from the influence of religious organisations separate from the state itself Yeah, it was. Nobody creates a state or really does anything big for just one reason, but they really did hate religion and clerics in particular. You don't go to the trouble of founding an actively atheist state at all in a country of religious folk your going to have to oppress unless you really hate religion. there's a reason for everything, and it's not: 'we will destroy other religions because we are atheists!!'.. even though 'we will destroy other religions because we are [some form of] christians/ muslims!!' has been fairly common it is 'we will destroy religion because we are [some form of] communists!!' for many, communism is the cause of the irreligion they have |
~ join the MAL suicide pact! ~ ~ ★☭★ ~ ~ embrace nuclear annihilation! ~ |
| Questioning is Doubt. Doubt is Heresy. |
Swagzilla said: RedArmyShogun said: Questioning is Doubt. Doubt is Heresy. Doubt is questioning. Heresy is doubt. Heresy is Death! |
| I say yes, religion had it's place before when humans didn't have answers to their questions like where they came from and what's right or wrong. We don't need make believe or magical beings to know that stuff anymore. Someone also mention all the wars that religious differences have caused, honestly to me meeting a religions person is the same as visiting a friends apartment and instead of a bluray they have a VHS. |
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| That's pretty amazing that this poll is almost tied. |
| it would be interesting to see how many people would join a religion if they are not indoctrinated since childhood and hadn't religious parents. You have no free will, your minds are poisoned. Can't you see? ofc you can't. this quote is perfect for the OP: "Without religion, we'd have good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." Stephen Weinburg |
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| let me guess, indocrinated and religious parents? there there, nothing to be ashamed of. It's not your fault, after all. I forgive you, christian. Can you do the same instead of bitching about how much your butt hurts? |
RollTheJointMar 6, 2015 5:25 PM
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Behelfut said: RollTheJoint said: let me guess, indocrinated and religious parents? there there, nothing to be ashamed of. No, you're too clean for guessing. congrats, your one step closer to hell now. |
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| Religion is the most convenient tool for power politics and humanity's avarice, but it is not the root of it. At the center of every violent religious movement, you will always find that the groups involved had something material and physical to gain. |
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| One thing for sure is that if religion didn't exist we would not have Internet fight over thread like this. |
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Involtus said: My friend, you don't follow a minority ideology because you disagree with it's principles. These people persecuted the religious as the religious had persecuted them saying these delusional idiots must be beaten, tortured, and killed both for thier own good and as an example to others because there is no God and by oppressing these people we may cure them of their madness or at least neutralize an enemy who disagrees with our atheism. How is that different from the Spanish torturing idolatrous Indians or the inquisition executing atheists?Muan142 said: Yeah, it was. Nobody creates a state or really does anything big for just one reason, but they really did hate religion and clerics in particular. You don't go to the trouble of founding an actively atheist state at all in a country of religious folk your going to have to oppress unless you really hate religion. there's a reason for everything, and it's not: 'we will destroy other religions because we are atheists!!'.. even though 'we will destroy other religions because we are [some form of] christians/ muslims!!' has been fairly common it is 'we will destroy religion because we are [some form of] communists!!' for many, communism is the cause of the irreligion they have |
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| "Religion is the only cause of war". So, whoever told you that was fucking ignorant. |
geniobastardo said: Definitely not. If idiots never existed, that would be a different thing. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| Religion isn't the only factor of war and hatred. Though, one can argue it's probably significant. |
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