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RobertBobert said: @Jin_uzuki I think after things like Eupho, your question is pretty rhetorical. In addition, you yourself mention obviously straight shows as an object of persistent reading between the lines, so this makes reference to the audience’s opinion even more subjective. This practice is not new and unusual, especially if the authors are trying to reach a diverse audience. I'm honestly confused on what you are trying to say (Also isn't Eupho the anime in which one of the two girls can't stop talking about how much she wants to fuck her professor and based on a straight work? At least for what I know). I haven't watched Marnie so I don't know how to respond to that.... neither I understand why that is relevant, I can only comment on what I see in this anime, and as I said, based on the way the anime slowly builds their relationship and the final scenes I think the show amply supports a romantic reading of their relationship that doesn't feel like fanon or fujoshi delusion or how you want to call it. |
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Jin_uzuki said: RobertBobert said: @Jin_uzuki I think after things like Eupho, your question is pretty rhetorical. In addition, you yourself mention obviously straight shows as an object of persistent reading between the lines, so this makes reference to the audience’s opinion even more subjective. This practice is not new and unusual, especially if the authors are trying to reach a diverse audience. I'm honestly confused on what you are trying to say (Also isn't Eupho the anime in which one of the two girls can't stop talking about how much she wants to fuck her professor and based on a straight work? At least for what I know). I haven't watched Marnie so I don't know how to respond to that.... neither I understand why that is relevant, I can only comment on what I see in this anime, and as I said, based on the way the anime slowly builds their relationship and the final scenes I think the show amply supports a romantic reading of their relationship that doesn't feel like fanon or fujoshi delusion or how you want to call it. Eupho is a show where director openly used the red string of fate and the visual metaphor of “boy’s first love” to portray admiration in teenage female friendships. I am not kidding. And I'm not even talking about lines like "I love you - It was confession?" in the relationship between two girls, who has canonical male love interest. I have to repeat it. Traditionally, platonic relationships are perceived by the audience as less important and more “dry” than romantic. Therefore, many shows often use ambiguous metaphors or homoerotic subtexts to give them greater visual importance or melodramaticity. Since traditionally this tends to attract shipers, many authors like to make it seductive and attractive enough to intentionally attract such an audience. As a result, phenomena like "Jump bishonen syndrome" or Manga Time Kirara's style yuri-bait appear. Honestly, I don’t understand why I need someone to explain such simple strategies. |
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RobertBobert said: I have to repeat it. Traditionally, platonic relationships are perceived by the audience as less important and more “dry” than romantic. Therefore, many shows often use ambiguous metaphors or homoerotic subtexts to give them greater visual importance or melodramaticity. Since traditionally this tends to attract shipers, many authors like to make it seductive and attractive enough to intentionally attract such an audience. As a result, phenomena like "Jump bishonen syndrome" or Manga Time Kirara's style yuri-bait appear. Honestly, I don’t understand why I need someone to explain such simple strategies. Do they? I doubt you have peered into the mind of every author out of here. I'd wager a lot of homoeroticism on Shounen Jump is purely un-intentional, like Haikyū. I'd wager a lot of homoeroticism is also purely intentional and the result of the author trying to get get as much as s/he can while dealing with censorship and editors (Which yes, are a thing). And a lot of it is just authors writings what they like without second-thoughts. Not everyone is trying to le bait people. This said, again, it's largely irrelevant because it's not really the case with Kaze, the show wasn't really particularly homoerotic (No, naked dudes by themselves are not homoerotic, it's just fanservice for the ladies) and shippable until the very late half - if Production I.G wanted le fujoshi's money they completely failed since every person I spoke of that watched the first episodes told me the show felt different from something like Free or YoI (Indeed the relationship between Kakeru and Haiji really never crosses any line until much later, to put it plainly I don't think many people were ready to ship them). The show itself also features a healthy dose of male friendships that don't feature naked dudes running toward each and just feel like... friendships. I don't know what the author had in mind when he wrote Kaze's ending and changed Kakeru's character, but I certainly can analyze and react to what he showed to me and develop an impression and opinion based on it. |
Jin_uzukiAug 20, 2019 11:38 AM
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Jin_uzuki said: RobertBobert said: I have to repeat it. Traditionally, platonic relationships are perceived by the audience as less important and more “dry” than romantic. Therefore, many shows often use ambiguous metaphors or homoerotic subtexts to give them greater visual importance or melodramaticity. Since traditionally this tends to attract shipers, many authors like to make it seductive and attractive enough to intentionally attract such an audience. As a result, phenomena like "Jump bishonen syndrome" or Manga Time Kirara's style yuri-bait appear. Honestly, I don’t understand why I need someone to explain such simple strategies. Do they? I doubt you have peered into the mind of every author out of here. I'd wager a lot of homoeroticism on Shounen Jump is purely un-intentional, like Haikyū. I'd wager a lot of homoeroticism is also purely intentional and the result of the author trying to get get as much as s/he can while dealing with censorship and editors (Which yes, are a thing). And a lot of it is just authors writings what they like without second-thoughts. Not everyone is trying to le bait people. This said, again, it's largely irrelevant because it's not really the case with Kaze, the show wasn't really particularly homoerotic (No, naked dudes by themselves are not homoerotic, it's just fanservice for the ladies) and shippable until the very late half - if Production I.G wanted le fujoshi's money they completely failed since every person I spoke of that watched the first episodes told me the show felt different from something like Free or YoI (Indeed the relationship between Kakeru and Haiji really never crosses any line until much later, to put it plainly I don't think many people were ready to ship them). The show itself also features a healthy dose of male friendships that don't feature naked dudes running toward each and just feel like... friendships. I don't know what the author had in mind when he wrote Kaze's ending and changed Kakeru's character, but I certainly can analyze and react to what he showed to me and develop an impression and opinion based on it. That is, when you start speculating on the unknown intentions of the authors, these are "possible interpretations", but when I reflect on their intentions, using my knowledge of the language of literature, is it "you are trying to get into the heads of the authors"? Wow, I don’t even know what to say. And do you even read what I'm writing? I spent a lot of time telling you about how shonen / seinen magazine intentionally use BL bait to make money on their popularity among fujoshi (this information can be easily found on the Internet, including interviews of the editors themselves, lol For example - http://www.punkednoodle.com/champloo/2008/01/12/a-history-of-the-fujoshi-love-affair-with-jump/), but again you are starting to tell me about some kind of agnsty struggle between repressed authors and censorship. I also haven’t written to you anywhere that any subtext in shonen is bait, I DIRECTLY wrote to you that subtext as a tool can have different goals that can overlap if it works well. Attempts to state that it is not any bait, because it doesn't correspond to examples of excessive bait ... I don't even know what to say. With the same logic, I can say that Iron Maiden is not a metal band, because they are not hyper-muscular bikers in leather clothes like Manowar. This is such a cheap sophistry that I can’t even believe that you use it. But this is all empty talk that again distracts you from my simple thought - intent is not equal to the canonicity of qeerness. Above, I have already given you a bunch of examples of when certain subtext or vibes were intentional, but there was nothing but the desire to attract a certain audience or emphasize the power of non-romantic relationships. Jin_uzuki said: (Indeed the relationship between Kakeru and Haiji really never crosses any line until much later, to put it plainly I don't think many people were ready to ship them). The show itself also features a healthy dose of male friendships that don't feature naked dudes running toward each and just feel like... friendships. Hah On the tumblr, already half of the guys were ship with each other, mainly speculative on the principle "these two guys often interact / are good friends, probably they are gay!". Actually, this is one of those reasons when I smile in response to words about the "subtext". The tendency to read any “moments of friendship” or even a simple interaction between characters as “subtext” is another common problem that I don’t even want to talk about. |
RobertBobertAug 20, 2019 4:46 PM
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RobertBobert said: Attempts to state that it is not any bait, because it doesn't correspond to examples of excessive bait ... I don't even know what to say. Bait is a buzzword.  Me every time someone talks me about le bait. Jin_uzuki said: Hah On the Tumblr, already half of the guys were ship with each other, mainly speculative on the principle "these two guys often interact / are good friends, probably they are gay!". Actually, this is one of those reasons when I smile in response to words about the "subtext". The tendency to read any “moments of friendship” or even a simple interaction between characters as “subtext” is another common problem that I don’t even want to talk about. Dumblr thinks everyone is gay and/or trans, so that's irrelevant to me, I followed the show every week and the show was never popular with fujoshi (Both Japanese and Western wymen) until the very late episodes. I can specifically lamenting how hard it was to find fanart before the final episodes. In fact, it seems most people into this were dudes who genuinely enjoyed the sport and character development. There are no real shipping moments in the first 12 episodes, I wasn't watching this for the shipping and I purely developed my opinion based on what I saw. You can argue with me and disagree on why you feel my interpretation of those scenes is wrong (Just like people who can't decide who Hana likes, some people think it's a twin, some people think it's Kakeru, some people think it's Musa), but I have no interest discussing about LE BAIT CONSPIRACY and also ultimately you can think what you want, so w/ever really. |
Jin_uzukiAug 21, 2019 12:55 PM
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| @Jin_uzuki Bait will remain bait no matter how much effort you put in for populist or political attempts to rationalize it. Seriously, you are starting to resemble yuri fanboys and internet lesbians who come up with lush and beautiful words about LGBTQ representations just to rationalize their fascination with cheap yuri bait shows like Senran Kagura. I have already told you this several times, so I have to repeat myself. You have the right to believe in anything, it is not my business and I never considered it mine. However, personally, I also not obligated to take on faith all this speculative nonsense and attempts to justify slash shiping through abuse of indirect reasoning and attempts to turn the thread into a political one. Not to mention the fact that it’s fun to hear accusations of paranoia from a person who previously asked me to believe in speculation about some hidden motives of the author. In any case, as I see it, it begins to become personal and even somehow toxic, so I would rather prefer to end this dialogue. As I understand it, we understood each other as well. |
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Eh, everything is bait in the end. Even when two characters fuck each other in the ass on screen some people would still claim they are just friends. The author literally has to tell some people for them to actually understand what's happening on screen because some people aren't arguing in good fath so they refuse to interpret a scene correctly (See: Gundam IBO in recent times). I mean, why bother arguing when you can just drop le baiiiit as an argument lol. how much effort you put in for populist or political attempts to rationalize it. lmao what is this? Dude, I keep telling you. I watched an anime. I drew my conclusions based on what the anime staff chose to portray on screen (Just like I did with Hana and the twins, another romantic sub-plot that for some reason isn't called bait despite the lack of confirmation lul? Are you going to tell me I fell for the bait because I think she likes both twins? I mean, according to some people here she likes Haiji??? But fuck, she may not even like anyone in the first place!). You don't care about that, you are not even looking at the content of the show because you are too focused on the politics in your head and how much you are smarter than those dumb (yaoi) shipper. Yes, I get it, but as I said, I'm here to talk about the actual content of the show. Do you interpreter the final scenes and their relationship romantically or not? OK, but why? No, "let bait" is not an argument, you are not effectively arguing anything, you are just hiding behind your biases. And ultimately do what you want, I'm just telling you my opinion is shaped by the in-canon text of the show and didn't come out of nowhere. I didn't watch this show for the shipping. I watched the final episodes and reacted accordingly. |
Jin_uzukiAug 21, 2019 3:03 PM
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| @Jin_uzuki So, now you are not even trying to be subtle in your demagoguery, claiming that the proof of your interpretation of the moment is its very existence or that, for some unknown reason, I must prove to you that this is not baiting just because that you want to see any alleged subtext as intentional hidden gays by the author. And like a cherry on the cake, you continue to brazenly ignore all my early arguments and clarifications, obsessively asserting that my whole position boils down to the fact that this is “bait”. Moreover, even when I say once again that you have the right to think what you want, you continue to make this thread personal and screaming that I forbid you to have your own opinion. Are you such a sensitive snowflake that you cannot calm down when someone disagrees with you and continues to say that your pressure don't convince him of the your interpretation? Oh, then you should have said this at the very beginning, and not spend so much of my time talking with speculative fantasies. Goodbye my dear boy. |
RobertBobertAug 21, 2019 4:59 PM
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RobertBobert said: @Jin_uzuki So, now you are not even trying to be subtle in your demagoguery, claiming that the proof of your interpretation of the moment is its very existence or that, for some unknown reason, I must prove to you that this is not baiting just because that you want to see any alleged subtext as intentional hidden gays by the author. And like a cherry on the cake, you continue to brazenly ignore all my early arguments and clarifications, obsessively asserting that my whole position boils down to the fact that this is “bait”. Moreover, even when I say once again that you have the right to think what you want, you continue to make this thread personal and screaming that I forbid you to have your own opinion. Are you such a sensitive snowflake that you cannot calm down when someone disagrees with you and continues to say that your pressure don't convince him of the your interpretation? Oh, then you should have said this at the very beginning, and not spend so much of my time talking with speculative fantasies. Goodbye my dear boy. I like the part where you actually discuss the show and its content. Oh wait, that never happened. See ya! |
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| This last episode was amazing... no, this whole anime was amazing. I can't say anything that has not been said. It's been a journey, I did have flaws with the show but this anime has touched me deeply. I cannot convince myself to give this series anything less than 10... It was worth every second of my time and easily has one of the most diverse and best-written casts in all of anime. 10/10. |
| Haiji makes my heart stop!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm so very very happy for them!!!!!! Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I never expect anything in this show.. I didn't know track and field sports anime could be this interesting and makes me nervous all the time. I love the team work, character's growth and all. I'm so happy for them!!! Good ending <3 |
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| I can bet that she was in love with the two: Joji and Jota brothers! Hope to know the resolution in a next season. I'am gonna miss the main team and of course Haiji-san, nevertheless if there's a next season of this show I am certainly sure will be gorgeaus. 10/10 to me. |
-¡Give yourself to me! |
| Hands down the best sport anime i've ever watch! All the character are likeable (except the redhaired char & his group), the show was enjoyable & heartwarming yet it put me on my edge while watching the running, trully great show! Wish more sport anime like this! |
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| Wow they made it into the top ten seeds! It finished awesomely overall! |
| I'm Bruneian and I like anime. And Manchester United. And fat cats. |
| Its a fine conclusion. 6/10 |
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| Speechless. This is one of the best anime I've watched. Holy smokes. I never expected to feel so much emotions while watching a sports anime other than Haikyuu. Great adaptation again from Production IG. |
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| Wow.. just wow, amazing finish to the series, no pun intended! I am so glad that the injury didn't deter Haiji from completing the course, that'd be so unnecessarily dramatic and that's not the point of the series. Haiji is truly my favorite character from this series, so mature, have gone through so much and yet still lead and inspire people around him. Fujioka is also really amazing, having a rival for Kakeru that's actually a good guy and actually have a leader quality as well as being mature and not arrogant is fantastic.. and he's such a great friend for Haiji. Kakeru has grown a lot throughout the series, he's so chill in this episode you'd never have thought he's such a recluse guy. Everyone else developed as well and it's a beautiful sight. What a beautiful bromances. Though I also didn't like how everyone somehow got something to overcome in this race lol it gave the impression that it's rushed and fairly unrealistic. Sugiyama doesn't have any drama going for him? Well let's just make him sick asf, so he somehow has something to overcome within himself in this race.. Also another part that could use some improvement is the characters. As much as I like them, they're more quirky than enjoyable.. not sure if that make sense but I don't particularly like any of the Kansei guys individually, they actually don't stand out that much to me, giving them more individualistic would be great.. not sure if I make sense right now lol not too fond of Hana liking any of the twins too tbh I ship her with Haiji / Kakeru more Anyway great show, and the show actually ends damn it's been a long time since I've actually seen a fully completed series. |
| Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
| Haiji breaking his legs also broke my heart |
| An admin's dickhead Soul banned me from MAL t('v't) |
| I'm so sad this has ended and will have no more seasons (or maybe it will in the future?) :(. But the conclusion was so sweet. I'm gonna miss watching this! I loved the characters and seeing all of them grow and learn. This actually made me want to become a runner lol. This is one of the best animes I've seen and It will hold a special place in my heart <333. 10/10! |
| By far one of the most satisfying anime I've ever watched. As far as sports go, it is indeed unrealistic for a bunch of newbies (most of them) to go around and compete in a national competition in just under 10 months because the plot demands them so. Prince is like a very extreme example of this where he goes from barely walking to actually completing a marathon. For a show about running, they also barely talk about the sport itself. We see them training all the time doing lap after lap but they don't really expand much on the technical aspects of it. I don't really care though since sports anime have never or barely been realistic in the first place. It's all about the theatrics and how you move the audience with a tale of friendship and determination. Sports anime is almost always coupled with drama and Kazetsuyo is no different from it. What sets it apart from other sports series is the way it handles its drama aspects. It's just so satisfying seeing these guys actually talk things through. Some of the characters themselves would have no problem fitting in a high school cast like the twins or even Kakeru himself but the way they solve problems and encourage each other is just so satisfying to watch. It reminds me that these are actually adult men. My favorite moments is when they just calmly talk to each other about their issues and do whatever they can to help without overstepping their boundaries. It's just so wholesome and refreshing to see. The drama is very grounded doesn't feel overbearing at all. For comparison's sake, Free! is one of my favorite franchises ever but I won't deny the way it handles drama is very different from Kazetsuyo. Actually most KyoAni production tend to lean more on the melodramatic side anyway. Kazetsuyo just has this air of maturity in it and is very satisfying to watch. The cast is well developed especially Kakeru who went from a socially-awkward boy with anger issues to someone who actually lead the team together with Haiji. Sports anime also don't have any definite antagonists for the most part because they almost always end up being friends after but Sakaki was like a breath of fresh air. His grudges were justified and they didn't try to redeem him or whatever. He stays hating on Kakeru because he just doesn't like the guy. I think my only problem with this show is the twins and the romantic sub-plot that didn't even have any conclusion. The twins aren't bad themselves but I just don't like how there's barely any difference between them. They're basically one entity up until the last episodes where they reveal through a short monologue how they're different from each other. I didn't get that picture when I watched Kazetsuyo. Overall a very great and touching show about friendship and dreams. |
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| I absolutely adored this anime. The backstories of everyone and why they ran, the passion, how the team found their rhythm and started to act a team. Just wonderful. It was solid 9/10 for a long time but the final episodes turned this into a masterpiece. A rare 10/10 for me. |
| Sweet ending. It almost feels like a real ending. But running never stops. I so wanna see them run more and develop more.. Overall I enjoyed this. Will definitely never forget this anime. |
 plz @ me |
| Wholesome story, I kind of didn't want to complete in when I was on the last ep's... Overall it was well done, this one special OST they kept remixing with many times was great. 9.5/10 |
| Finished it in 2 days - what a ride! The last few episodes were pretty damn good, but this last one with more insights on Haiji's view on things, his dad listening on the radio with trembling hands and how Kansai managed to get a place in Top 10 with a timeskip to Kakeru's 4th year. A very satisfying ending - liked the story, characters, their development and how the show wrapped up. |
| such a great show definitely now one of my all time favorites. i got teary at the end |
| I love all the characters. The end was perfect. I enjoyed every second of this anime. |
| What the fuckkkk man, why u gotta make a grown man cry? Damn it this show was a absolute blast, had this on-hold for too long I’m glad I didn’t give up on this. Production IG did their thing as usual. I’m gonna miss everyone’s faces especially Haijis. |
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| Inspiring & moving & beautiful. Perfectly sums up life. That ending where they have all diverged on their own paths was so relatable & bittersweet. As said, you can’t turn back time but what they have shared will remain as a dear lesson with them for the rest of their lives. Phenomenal storytelling!! Moved me to tears. |
 ꕤ but i’ll probably remember over and over again you were there and everyone else was there — the day we all searched for just one thing ꕤ |
| I started this anime on Friday 23rd April. I finished my first real life marathon on Saturday 1st May. Then I finished this anime today (Monday 3rd May). I did not plan to run a marathon so early, but this anime inspired me to push myself further than I ever thought was possible. I wish I had more friends to run with like the ten guys of Kansei University, but watching this anime while hitting the peak (so far) of my running has been an amazing experience. I will never forget watching this. If you enjoyed this anime, but don't run, I encourage you to try it and give it everything you've got. The start will be rough, but just like Prince, you will become a beast. Trust me, you won't regret it. |
| So what really happened to his leg? No backstory at all. Still a great show. |
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| What an anime!! Truly beautiful! Somewhat of a sad ending, its hard to believe its all over. I kinda wish there was a bit more in between the ending of the Hakone race and the team 3 years later.. oh well... it was amazing while it lasted! |
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| I watched the whole show while I did excercise, for a week. It gave excitement and energy like no show has ever done. It was such an amazing ride. Loved every character and loved the dog. I barked alongside him every commercial break phahahaha. Amazing show. Highly recommended for everyone who wants a fun ride with some feels |
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| This was my first sports anime and I loved it :D |
| As I predicted, Haiji would've done ANYTHING to make sure he'd finish and hell even made sure they got seeded aswell. Beautiful ending and with a beautiful message to end on. I pretty much loved everything about this anime, already from the first episode in I was hooked ... "Do you like running" The characters all complimented each other really well, the music was great, the underlying message it has ... just everything. And damn, the visuals were so well done. If I had anything to complain about it was that the portrayal of speed felt a bit over the top. Example being Prince at the early stages of the anime when he was barely able to finish a 5km run, they make it look like he's pretty much walking when he still finished it in about 30 minutes (which is 10lm/h). but some suspension of disbelief and I didn't mind as much eventually. Been a while since I've been this invested in an anime and it felt great. I haven't watched many sports anime but this together with "Major" just felt amazing. Hell, it even motivated me to go start running more! Easy 10/10 |
PrOxAntoMar 13, 2023 4:08 AM
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