Overlord III Episode 8 Discussion

CHC said:


He was a human being. He still has the memory of his human past. He treasures his human memory of his human friendship with his human friends. It was never indicated in the show that Ainz has completely abandoned his human identity and has now entirely identified himself with his new role. Instead we've been constantly reminded that he's just putting on a persona. Even now he is still showing a lot relatable human characteristics like having imposter syndrome and showing care towards specific people. He is way too humanoid to not apply human categories on him. Also, he DOES live in a society: he grew up in one and he's living right now in a society called Nazarick. He also interacts socially with other human beings as Momon. He relies on them for information, trading, food and shelter when he acts as Momon. It is not like he is just a wild animal having no intellect, no communicative capacity, no cooperative behaviours and no conceptual capacity. He clearly has concepts of morality and he is capable to act morally if he choose to, unlike animal. Moral values of humanity have nothing to do with him? How are we going to understand why Ainz felt insulted when that guy lied about his old friend? Do monsters feel insulted when they are lie to? Do monsters care about honesty?

Well, philosophy aside, I don't really understand why it's such a big deal. "Psychopathic" is just one adjective amongst others for us to make sense of humanoid characters in fiction. Just like we would use terms like "sad", "remorseful", "sentimental", "timid", "resentful", "vicious" to other humanoid characters in anime. We wouldn't understand those humanoids, let alone relate to them, if we do not consider them to be essentially humanlike.

jupitelthunder said:
Yeah I'm dropping the show now.

Up until this point I was under the impression that the whole show conflict was that Ains was just a normal guy thrown into a position of extreme power where everyone expected him to be an evil overlord, so to conform to those expectations he would play the part but would also be a good guy whenever possible, even going so far as bullshitting the guardians to make it seem like it's all part of his plan, so even though he's overpowered he still had challenges you wanted him to succeed at.

This episode however made it clear that I misunderstood the series and Ains is just an overpowered bad guy with nothing standing on his way, neither enemies nor morals, which for me doesn't make it for a very interesting story, hence why I'm dropping it.

jupitelthunder said:
Yeah I'm dropping the show now.

Up until this point I was under the impression that the whole show conflict was that Ainz was just a normal guy thrown into a position of extreme power where everyone expected him to be an evil overlord, so to conform to those expectations he would play the part but would also be a good guy whenever possible, even going so far as bullshitting the guardians to make it seem like it's all part of his plan, so even though he's overpowered he still had challenges you wanted him to succeed at.

This episode however made it clear that I misunderstood the series and Ainz is just an overpowered bad guy with nothing standing on his way, neither enemies nor morals, which for me doesn't make it for a very interesting story, hence why I'm dropping it.

Anatithe said:
Almost wish he played with them a bit, bring in Pandoras Actor as Momon and make them find out that he serves Ainz, crushing their will and confidence even more.

Starhammer said:


Tbh,its your loss,dropping a show like this because of one episode is way too harsh imo.
Don't forget,they invaded his home,with the intention to steal anything they could.If someone did that to me,I'd have no mercy either.

Necromia said:
Arche: We have the adamantite adventurer Momon of Darkness on out side!

dannymilk said:
i laughed when the group said Momon would back them up...kinda wished Ains would go IT WAS ME! at them lol

and now i cant wait for pretty boy to get his shit wrecked

devilscorner said:


heres the keyword asshole "WAS"
idk if you read the VN or manga or watched the first season but his avatar literally has some passive skills that makes him immune to some shit and makes him calm and collected. the fact that for him they were nothing but a bunch of thieves and scumbag he had no reason to show mercy for them, wtf did you even think when he asked them (as momon) in the briefing???

he doesnt hate humans but at the same time he also doesnt care about them that much as he cares about for the nazarick npcs

CHC said:


He was a human being. He still has the memory of his human past. He treasures his human memory of his human friendship with his human friends. It was never indicated in the show that Ainz has completely abandoned his human identity and has now entirely identified himself with his new role. Instead we've been constantly reminded that he's just putting on a persona. Even now he is still showing a lot relatable human characteristics like having imposter syndrome and showing care towards specific people. He is way too humanoid to not apply human categories on him. Also, he DOES live in a society: he grew up in one and he's living right now in a society called Nazarick. He also interacts socially with other human beings as Momon. He relies on them for information, trading, food and shelter when he acts as Momon. It is not like he is just a wild animal having no intellect, no communicative capacity, no cooperative behaviours and no conceptual capacity. He clearly has concepts of morality and he is capable to act morally if he choose to, unlike animal. Moral values of humanity have nothing to do with him? How are we going to understand why Ainz felt insulted when that guy lied about his old friend? Do monsters feel insulted when they are lie to? Do monsters care about honesty?

Well, philosophy aside, I don't really understand why it's such a big deal. "Psychopathic" is just one adjective amongst others for us to make sense of humanoid characters in fiction. Just like we would use terms like "sad", "remorseful", "sentimental", "timid", "resentful", "vicious" to other humanoid characters in anime. We wouldn't understand those humanoids, let alone relate to them, if we do not consider them to be essentially humanlike.

CHC said:


Thank you. Your logic (or the lack of) tell me a lot about how educated certain people are on this site. I didn't engage in a lot of discussion on MAL so I didn't know it would be such a waste of time.
Oh, since your have completely omitted everything I said after the first sentence, I don't think a response is needed.

BTW, even though I'm not a fan of the series at all (so far this season has been pretty average for me). This episode actually strikes me as the most interesting one as Ainz's shown to be actively involved in evildoing, not just being passively pushed around by external events and his underlings. That indeed added more complexity to the show as we are not just getting easy thrill from a power fantasy. It is getting interesting by this point. But I guess some fans of the show want to completely identify themselves with Ainz, that's why they get so mad when I call Ainz's behaviour psychopathic. They feel they themselves are insulted when Ainz is described in a way they wouldn't want themselves to be so described.

FeministSenpai said:

Agree with you...can't stand with this bullshit.

FeministSenpai said:

Agree with you...can't stand with this bullshit.

Starhammer said:


Tbh,its your loss,dropping a show like this because of one episode is way too harsh imo.
Don't forget,they invaded his home,with the intention to steal anything they could.If someone did that to me,I'd have no mercy either.

jupitelthunder said:


One episode which completely changed the main character and thus the entire point of the series. They invaded his home, yeah, but that was his plan all along and he was never even remotely threatened by it, it's awfully silly of him to act all butthurt about it (silly and unbecoming of a so-called "supreme being") and use it to justify his cruelty even after talking to the party and realizing they're not selfish.

I wouldn't mind the entire party getting killed in the most cruel way possible if Ainz had at least shown some remorse or was left with no other options, but that's not what happened, he simply got mad and acted like a dick. This is not about the show being dark, it's about a cool MC who was up until this point a fair (who's also merciless when the situation calls for it) overlord turning into an entitled asshole.

Darklight0303 said:


All he directly did is let someone spread the word of hte existence of his tomb. Other than that the workers all walked to their deaths willingly. He didn't say to them COME AND ROB MY PLACE.

Stop acting as if the Workers were some measure of saints just cause one of them had some sob story about her loli sisters

jupitelthunder said:


He planted the seed that made them invade his place and then decided to act mad over it like he doesn't know how people work and like he was so offended by people doing exactly what he expected them to do. I couldn't care less about sisters from a secondary character that was in the show for a couple of episodes, I care about Ainz going from reasonable to bratty, from noble villain to cliche bad guy.

jupitelthunder said:


One episode which completely changed the main character and thus the entire point of the series. They invaded his home, yeah, but that was his plan all along and he was never even remotely threatened by it, it's awfully silly of him to act all butthurt about it (silly and unbecoming of a so-called "supreme being") and use it to justify his cruelty even after talking to the party and realizing they're not selfish.

I wouldn't mind the entire party getting killed in the most cruel way possible if Ainz had at least shown some remorse or was left with no other options, but that's not what happened, he simply got mad and acted like a dick. This is not about the show being dark, it's about a cool MC who was up until this point a fair (who's also merciless when the situation calls for it) overlord turning into an entitled asshole.

Darklight0303 said:


He gave them chances to walk out and they chose money over their own lives. Do you think Ainz and company went and complained to the devs whenever they got killed by a dungeon? Stop being daft

Necromia said:


Is what it is. I watch something with a unique and interesting premise and I'm hooked even if it's dark. Some people cant handle it and get... well...

Starhammer said:


I noticed you used the word "merciless",and that precludes him feeling remorse in any way,and after all,why should he,he'd already given them one chance during the briefing,albeit as Momon, when he asked them why they had taken on this quest,to which they replied "Money,of course",so in that case why should he show remorse,or mercy.I admit that it did seem to be an abrupt change to his previous behaviour,but as in the case when his "comrades" got killed by Clementine and made undead,he showed then that he had no real interest in them,other than to further his name,as in this case,it was to enable him to attack the kingdom that sent the workers in the first place.
Ainz is all about Nazarick,and whats best for Nazarick,and its occupants.The mere fact that he knows the names of all the lesser maids,like Cixous,shows just how much he cares about them.
Anyways,you say your dropping it,good luck finding another series like it,though there are a lot of good anime out there,theres not much that is as interesting as this one.

jupitelthunder said:


He gave them the chance knowing full well that they had no idea what level of horrors expected them, he could've easily stopped everyone if he wanted to, but no, he choose to exploit the workers and got mad when things went exactly as planned.

I don't see why you'd compare Yggdrasil Momonga (when he was sure everything was just a game and getting killed was all part of the fun) to current Momonga (when he doesn't know what the world he is in really is but knows it's not just a simple game anymore), surely you understand that what's reasonable in the first scenario might not be in the second, right?

jupitelthunder said:
Yeah I'm dropping the show now.

Up until this point I was under the impression that the whole show conflict was that Ainz was just a normal guy thrown into a position of extreme power where everyone expected him to be an evil overlord, so to conform to those expectations he would play the part but would also be a good guy whenever possible, even going so far as bullshitting the guardians to make it seem like it's all part of his plan, so even though he's overpowered he still had challenges you wanted him to succeed at.

This episode however made it clear that I misunderstood the series and Ainz is just an overpowered bad guy with nothing standing on his way, neither enemies nor morals, which for me doesn't make it for a very interesting story, hence why I'm dropping it.

Starhammer said:


For starters,it was a game,so dying wasn't a problem,but now its not a game,and dying is real,so he has to be serious,otherwise he might die from one stupid,small mistake,and he knows that all to well with what happened to Shalltear.As far as he knew,one of them might have had an art or skill that might've been able to seriously damage him or one of his comrades,so he had to deal with them as he did.
For seconds,as I see it,he didn't get mad until they insulted the other Supreme Beings by trying to lie to him about them.In the end though,it doesn't matter,they still died.
And as for the others that didn't die in the arena,he didn't kill them,they were killed by the defences that Albedo put in place,just pointing that out.
And I still love Necromias pleaides banner,its so bloody cute!!

Chaosta said:


LMAO wtf have you been watching.. Never was it implied that ainz was a good guy.. He has said SEVERAL times that he doesnt kill needlessly but that doesnt mean he wont kill.. He said SEVERAL times that people have to benefit him to survive.. Idk what kind of fantasy world you were living in when you began this show but clearly you didnt pay attention.. Episode 1 of season 1 he clearly said hes gonna rule that world... what show or in history has taking over the world EVER been nice happy and civil... gtfo

Darklight0303 said:


In the eyes of humans Lizardmen are monsters. And they go through everything you described. SO now by your twisted logic you're going to say the Lizardmen are clearly human? Your desperation to enforce human morality on Ainz is a cosmic joke

Darkrunn said:
This episode in particular has me pretty worried for the series. Until
this arc, Ainz has been likeable, with a relatable moral agenda and a
relatable goal. He has approached the problem of figuring out his world
in a very direct, selfish way because that's what most of us would do in
similar situations.

Now he seems like a spoiled, overpowered child, enjoying cruelly
plucking the legs from insects because he dislikes them. I get that its
supposed to be grim. I love the Warhammer fantasy and Warhammer 40k
settings, the works of Lovecraft, and the original Berserk, so I'm not
complaining about not having everyone be happy and sing songs.

When you have a character like Ainz, who has been able to see the value
in people before (Nphi, Carne village, the Lizard folk, the Blue Rose,
the Eight Fingers syndicate and the people of E-Rantel in general)
suddenly kill a bunch of people that could have been manipulated,
coerced, or forced to serve a purpose for his greater scheming, it
doesn't feel grim, it feels kind of cheap. Like the show is deliberately
trying to get a rise out of us because... reasons. Oooo look the cute
girl got dismembered, aren't you sad? What was the point of devoting 2
whole episodes in a 13 episode season to developing these characters? It doesn't
seem important enough to waste that much of the season on, unless the LN spends this much time on it for some reason.

Clementine and the first group of adventurers are a great example of how
to keep the grim setting without sending out conflicting messages about
the main character or slowing things down to make us think something is
important. Internal consistency is key to characterizing the cast.

I feel like whoever decided that this was an ok direction for the story actually forgot that Ainz was supposed to be an intelligent person. A schemer, moving carefully because he doesn't fully understand this world. So he just throws away a company's worth of new pawns because "Oh you invaded my house that I told you to come and invade?" It's lazy writing.

I'm not dropping the series, hopefully this is just a small hiccup in the writing/anime direction and we'll get back to smart Ainz soon.

JGChaves said:


Don't know what is so twisted about his logic. For once, he said "humanlike" not "human". And for another, the Lizardmen are clearly just as intelligent as humans and have the same emotions humans do. From what we have seen back in season two their society isn't even that different from a human one. So why is it so wrong to use the same adjectives we use to describe the mentality and character of humans for them?

Darklight0303 said:


Foresight had nothing of worth to offer to Ainz that he already didn't have. Not even ARche's skill was anything special considering it got blocked by his ring. Instead killing all of them has helped maintain some of the inhabitants of Nazarick who actively require humans for their needs be it food or nesting grounds.

Letting them go back out in the wild after being inside of Nazarick posed an INSANE amount of security risk. So no eliminating all of them is the right choice. You were just swayed by a pathetic sob story that made you forget all of these people are lawless mercenaries who passed up on the safe regulated job of Adventurers for the risk heavy high paying job of Workers

Darkrunn said:


But wouldn't an entire company of tomb robbers be immensely useful to a guy who rp'd as undead with a bunch of other people who rp'd as undead? If his goal is to find his lost friends, or just to find out if anything can challenge him, wouldn't they be ideal pawns?

Considering the levels of sadism Nazarick is capable of, not to mention the huge number of minions who could keep tabs on these folks, it seems like it's an oversight on the writer's part, so Ainz has to do more things himself. Which is the opposite of what an Overlord is supposed to do.

Terkhev said:

Afaik: