What's your opinion on "Avant-garde" animes?
| For those who don't know what "Avant-garde" is, a quick Google search states that... "Avant-garde anime are experimental and radical pieces of Japanese animation that have pushed the boundaries of what the audience has accepted as the norm." - Fandom Some popular examples of Avant-garde anime include Neon Genesis Evangelion, Devilman Crybaby, FLCL, Serial Experiments Lain, and Perfect Blue. |
I like apple pie. I also like gaming. Man's two greatest inventions. |
| Not really my cup of tea, but I somewhat like Yami Shibai. |
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| They are peak fiction and deserve to be representatives of Anime to assert superiority of Japanese fiction over others |
| If you want to reply to my posts, come up with valid arguments instead of ad hominem HIGHER LEVEL THINKERS ONLY |
| What is avant garde about Devilman Crybaby? Plus NGE that was really only the case for End of EVA. Main series is pretty much like a lot of mecha anime. Regardless eh I don't know mixed opinion liked Lain did not like Angel's Egg. Being experimental and not derivative at least doesn't equal quality. Tropes and conventional storytelling exist for a reason. |
| Yeah I like weird shit. I miss all the weird shit that were coming out 20 years ago even though not all of them were actually good. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
BilboBaggins365 said: What is avant garde about Devilman Crybaby? Plus NGE that was really only the case for End of EVA. Main series is pretty much like a lot of mecha anime. Regardless eh I don't know mixed opinion liked Lain did not like Angel's Egg. Being experimental and not derivative at least doesn't equal quality. Tropes and conventional storytelling exist for a reason. NGE and Devilman were labeled as Avant-garde on MAL. I'm just using them as examples since they are more popular meaning more people would be able to provide their input, even if the shows themselves aren't as extreme/radical as things like Serial Experiments Lain. However, I would still argue that Devilman has a lot of the characteristics of an Avant-garde anime. Especially in the very beginning and the very end of the show. |
I like apple pie. I also like gaming. Man's two greatest inventions. |
ApplePieHunter said: It's a pretty arbitrary label to me. Devilman is just a classic tragedy there is nothing unique about that. Sure you can give Yuasa credit artistically I suppose for being kinda different but lots of anime don't get qualified as that on MAL when they do look different from the norm. BilboBaggins365 said: What is avant garde about Devilman Crybaby? Plus NGE that was really only the case for End of EVA. Main series is pretty much like a lot of mecha anime. Regardless eh I don't know mixed opinion liked Lain did not like Angel's Egg. Being experimental and not derivative at least doesn't equal quality. Tropes and conventional storytelling exist for a reason. NGE and Devilman were labeled as Avant-garde on MAL. I'm just using them as examples since they are more popular meaning more people would be able to provide their input, even if the shows themselves aren't as extreme/radical as things like Serial Experiments Lain. However, I would still argue that Devilman has a lot of the characteristics of an Avant-garde anime. Especially in the very beginning and the very end of the show. |
Faxtual_Ghoul said: I'm very curious, but could you elaborate on why you like this genre so much? I'm not really trying to attack your tastes or pick a fight here. I'm just trying to gather a fresh perspective on the genre besides my own biased opinion and the extremely convoluted reviews I've seen in other forums/articles.They are peak fiction and deserve to be representatives of Anime to assert superiority of Japanese fiction over others |
I like apple pie. I also like gaming. Man's two greatest inventions. |
| they fry my brain. can't even enjoy what's happening on screen as you don't even understand why that's happening. after finishing i've to go read reddit explanation posts and then rewatch to fully grasp what happened. to this day i don't get what tf happened at the end of NGE. but i haven't watched end of evangelion yet so...one day i'll rewatch NGE and watch end of eva together. |
 The end of an era. Thank you Wit, Mappa and Isayama. Feeling half happy, half sad. Kawaii waifus and precious best girls <3333 |
| Sometimes they're cool and other times they're just not for me. I don't actively seek them out but I might give them a try once in a while on the off chance I find something I end up enjoying. |
| Now that anime is not my cup of tea anymore, avant-garde animes are the only ones that I'm sticking around for. |
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| Always an interesting watch but the results are very very mixed. |
| It depends. Avant-garde anime that rely on interesting dialogues, interesting visuals and interesting sound -> some of the experiences offered by anime as a medium Avant-garde anime that rely on long silences for the sake of being contemplative and metaphorical -> I acknowledge their worth but they're utter failures as a piece of entertainment to me, which is the main point of anime |
| I'm not a very big fan of arthouse cinema films. |
tchitchouanAug 6, 2023 3:09 AM
ApplePieHunter said: Non Anime fans use examples of deep literature laden with symbolism and well-written charactersFaxtual_Ghoul said: I'm very curious, but could you elaborate on why you like this genre so much? I'm not really trying to attack your tastes or pick a fight here. I'm just trying to gather a fresh perspective on the genre besides my own biased opinion and the extremely convoluted reviews I've seen in other forums/articles.They are peak fiction and deserve to be representatives of Anime to assert superiority of Japanese fiction over others Lot of Avant Garde Anime already surpasses non-Japanese garbage with better characters, themes and symbolism |
| If you want to reply to my posts, come up with valid arguments instead of ad hominem HIGHER LEVEL THINKERS ONLY |
| I think it's cool how experimental they can get. But I've noticed that some anime elitists be eating them up because they're supposedly deep. |
BilboBaggins365 said: I bet everything directed by Yuasa automatically gets the avante garde tag. As for Eva, I'd say the last 3rd of the series is avante garde. While not the majority, it's still a sizable portion.What is avant garde about Devilman Crybaby? Plus NGE that was really only the case for End of EVA. Main series is pretty much like a lot of mecha anime. |
| その目だれの目？ |
| @mazuchi In that case, I don't know why something mainstream like Devilman would have this tag. |
| その目だれの目？ |
mazuchi said: It's still not clear what "dementia" was supposed to mean. It sounds a better fit for Yuasa's other anime.Lucifrost said: I think it's just a leftover from when "Avant Garde" was called "Dementia" as I explained in my first post in this thread.@mazuchi In that case, I don't know why something mainstream like Devilman would have this tag. |
| その目だれの目？ |
| I don't even know what avan garde means, it seems like my understanding about this subject is even poorer than I thought since I'd consider Evangelion and Devilman Crybaby to be Avant-garde, but according to MAL, they're just pretentious bullshit |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Perhaps, this is hell. |
Lucifrost said: I remember the definition being as vague as "Stuff with mind-bending plots". That's it. It did not take into account experimental animation, only that it barely made sense. mazuchi said: It's still not clear what "dementia" was supposed to mean. It sounds a better fit for Yuasa's other anime.I think it's just a leftover from when "Avant Garde" was called "Dementia" as I explained in my first post in this thread. As for my opinion on Avant Garde anime... I think they are mostly good as they allow to take what can be done with animation to the limit and that they do not stick with usual narrative conventions... Unless the animators are psycopaths that think that putting 5 minutes of flashing images is enjoyable by any human being. |
 MOKUSHI KUSHIMO SHIMOKU KUMOSHI MOSHIKU SHIKUMO. |
mazuchi said: I do see what you mean, but the same can be said for Crybaby.I think most of Yuasa's anime are pretty straightforward except for the visuals. The only other one that could maybe be associated with Dementia is Kaiba. But Tatami Galaxy, Night is Short, Ping Pong, Lu over the Wall, Japan Sinks, Kemonozume, etc? Maybe I'm too deep down the weird anime rabbithole but I think not. While we're on the subject of rabbit holes, has anyone else seen this old trilogy of avante garde films? https://myanimelist.net/anime/3038/Senya_Ichiya_Monogatari https://myanimelist.net/anime/2755/Cleopatra https://myanimelist.net/anime/3220/Kanashimi_no_Belladonna Belladonna of Sadness is the only one I dislike, the only one tagged "dementia," and the only one not made by Osamu Tezuka. |
| その目だれの目？ |
| Wish there were more avant garde anime around, I just like them to experience something a little different from the norm, sigh. |
| Yes. Works like Mawaru Penguindrum, Texhnolyze, Eva and Utena are anime only non plebes will actually understand. |
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| I haven't really watched Avant-garde but I do like how experimental and crazy it can get. |
 "You fought to the end. You survived. That's why you're here now. I think that's something you should be more proud of." - Vladilena Milizé |
| As a consumer, we can only win from this. If we don't like it, so what. If it turns out to be great, then it's an amazing watch. So I don't necessarily love the anime itself, but I like that they're being made because every once in a while we get a gem that would have been impossible by just playing it safe. |
| Only one of the titles you mention are what I'd call avant garde and Evangelion definitely isn't it. Google is bad for phrase definitions, it gives an oversimplified definition that lacks context. Avant garde is usually used to describe artsy or art-house ideas, things that are usually independently made or at least written by either an independent unknown author, or a very mercurial one! With anime, maybe something like Paprika. Not saying Paprika is especially good, but it's definitely experimental- very odd, hard to understand or impossible to understand, shows like that don't often tell a coherent story or make a lot of sense; and are usually one-offs. There is nothing artsy or experimental about Evangelion, it's another mecha anime with some life themes. |
SuperAdventure said: You don't think the way the show ends with a round of applause is experimental?There is nothing artsy or experimental about Evangelion |
| その目だれの目？ |
| They're usually a hit or miss, but when they're good they tend to be really good and vice versa. |
Lucifrost said: That isn't what I would say you use the phrase avant garde to describe. When something is experimental, the whole project (what ever it is) is unique and unusual, of an oddball mind, made with unique ingredients in a unique way, following no conventions and probably being just art-house. SuperAdventure said: You don't think the way the show ends with a round of applause is experimental?There is nothing artsy or experimental about Evangelion I wouldn't use "experimental" to describe almost any mainstream anime. Having a couple of features in the show like a weird ending sequence- doesn't qualify it as experimental and doesn't make the entire series avant garde. It's not really a compliment and is usually only used by critics. If you want to describe just a feature of an anime as being avant garde... well maybe; but I actually think some of the stuff GoHands does would better qualify. They seem to be doing experimental stuff, although not all that far from what is already possible. And it doesn't make them popular does it? No way! The anime audience don't like experiments. They like predictability, repetitiveness, recognizable themes and tropes- not whacky weird shit out of left field. This is all my opinion- but use of the phrase avant garde is subjective anyway. |
| I like them. They are usually artsy and looking fresh and original, compared to most of other anime. And I find such elements as fun to watch myself. |
| On one hand, you have some great (and weird) stuff like Inaka Isha, Glassy Ocean, Nekojirou-sou and A Traveler's Diary, but on the other you have shit like Embah, 001 and Ai (1963). It's a category with a huge variance in quality. As a whole, however, I like avant garde, experimental works because they offer something that's actually fucking unique for once. |
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| I only watched Paranoia Agent and it was pretty good |
I love, especially those who disturb with our heads.. 🎭  |
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| They are a little too loved by the elitists, and not nearly appreciated enough by the casuals. they should be looked at as they are. attempting to be unique, artsy, experimental, is just that. not something that can make a series horrible or amazing just by being a thing. although I will say that to me being different IS a positive aspect, as much as being generic isn't. |
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SuperAdventure said: that goes through the most visually absurd ways of portraying the psyche and feelings of it's characters, going as far as using even live action footage and ending the original tv series with a 2 episode long therapy session. There is nothing artsy or experimental about Evangelion, it's another mecha anime with some life themes. if that's "nothing experimental" then idk what is. |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Twitter: https://x.com/APolygons2 Backloggd: https://backloggd.com/games/lib/rating?page=8 IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/user/ur107632777/?ref_=uspf_nv_profile |
| The Stuff you listed is cool, i like FLCL, Lain and NGE. Those shows can be odd but have some substance. Though the trashy "Avant Garde" series that are just weird BS slapped together for no reason like Striking Daughter, Goodby Elvis and USA and Puzzle of Autumn are awful. Like genuinely just garbage. I hate bizarre, experimental shorts. One of them genuinely almost made me have a seizure because it was just strobe lights for 30 seconds. No thank you. |
| My waifu is the most wonderful waifu. Mai Valentine. We're freaking out that we're running out of time, but to do what? Should i stop and think of that? Is there something i could do to slow it down? Live in a day for once, instead of watch it sprinting by |
| Some are great and others are just pretentious bullshit. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
| I find them to be very hit or miss. I like some for being deep and thought provoking, while I find others to be just too surreal. |
| Depends i guess. But bringing something new to the table cant be a bad thing. Also Devilman Crybaby is not avant garde. |
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| I'm always open for avant-garde works and intrigued by short animations. Not so sure I'd call any mainstream TV series avant-garde... |
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| Most of my lowest scored anime are avant garde. Not that they're all terrible, there's some good ones, but most of the time I can't even tell what message they're supposed to be telling if there even is one. There's rarely anything genuinely enjoyable about them. I find it interesting how many of them there are out there and comparing different directors' styles can be neat, but they're not something I'd just put on for entertainment, I've mostly just used them to pad my list since they're generally under 10 minutes each. |
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