| He is not the best out there, but the idea behind his writing is very good. |
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Okeanix said: Apolygon2 said: the difference is that the tit loving romcom and isekai protagonists are scums and creeps. people can relate to wanting to fondle boobs, but they can't relate to trying to peep at girls locker room. people can relate to doing a "dare" to get the attention of a girl. but they can't relate to accidently opening bathroom door and seeing screaming naked girls. that's why that type of relatability gets lost for a lot of people in those types of shows. he is not even slightly malicious with how he goes about that dream. his character is actually a lot closer to a character like subaru from re:zero. he is without a single doubt a simp too, but just like denji, he isn't a complete pervert or creep about it. both of them are bad a type of social ques, although for completely different reasons. and both of them seek a fatal character flaw that comes from their childhood. for denji it's the lack of affection, and for subaru it's the weight of expectations. that's plus both of them being kind of bad at socializing of course, but again, in different ways and for different reasons. I even say personally I like the way chainsawman has handled it's characters way more. it has a lot more show don't tell with it's character writing compared to re:zero, and to me personally that is very important. but what I was getting at is that, his character arc is very similar to subaru. at least so far. Ps: I forgot to answer the first line. yeah killing devils for tits would sound stupid, if it wasn't part of his job anyways. like he is a devil hunter, who is forced to stay one, even though the job is dangerous, it is a dangerous job that he has been doing his whole life. but he hasn't been touching tits his whole life, so you should see why those would be about the same value to him. You don't understand single thing about Re:Zero, which you gave 6 is enough example you don't understand this masterpiece. 1- Subaru and Denji is not similar, they are completely different. Denji is horny teenager simp bait who has no depth or development, he is not realistic comparing him to god-tier characters like Subaru is a insult. Comparing mere shounen character to seinen dark fantasy novel mc. What a joke. 2- Re:Zero is a show don't tell. Just because stuff told in Re:Zero is higher than any anime you watched doesn't mean Re:Zero is not a show tell. If you read cut content or analyze in much more in depth you will understand Re:Zero is a show don't tell. Stuff you learn from the anime not even 25% of it. That happens because Re:Zero is a novel adaptation not some simple manga. Chainsaw Man is a shounen, characters are simple even though they look complex, they are not like in Re:Zero. Re:Zero has 5-6 multi layered character writing no shounen can close which is normal because Re:Zero is seinen and also a novel. Thinking otherwise is proof of "anime was a mistake" and shounen fanboys being delusional. Edit: This is the comment I got after spending so much time making a well thought out argument: "I don't bother reading someone who rated Chainsaw Man 9/10, Evangelion 10/10, Sonny Boy 9/10, Parasyste 9/10, Death Parade 9/10, Made in Abyss 9/10, Oddtaxi 9/10 all of them garbages deserve 6 at max. You are obviously a kid (2004 born) and your opinions will change over years so i don't bother." let this be a lesson to not ever actually try and engage in a meaningful conversation with fanboys/fangirls of any show/movie. .................................................................................................................................................................................................... I have thought about re:zero and tried to analyze it from different angles more than you can imagine. I have read dozens of analysis and watched 10s of videos about it. I have talked about for hours with so many people. it's the show that I have changed my mind about the most, and it's the show that took me the longest to except it's problems while also giving it credit for everything that it does well. if there is a depth, a development, a anything that is present in the re:zero anime (not LN just the anime), I know about it. and that is why I can tell you that it is not a masterpiece or anything close to that, while also understanding exactly why a lot of people think otherwise. But I will just argue this single point, since I can go on for hours about my take on the series as a whole: show don't tell is something that can exist when withing books, movies, manga or anything really. saying re:zero has more tell because it's adapted from a light novel, is completely ignorant on what the goal of show don't tell is. books have show too. but I'm not going to write you a lesson on how you can do proper story telling in books. I'm sure you can easily find the answer if care enough to search. but even if it was a good excuse, it would still be a negative for the anime. it would be the script writer and directors job, to use the "tell" text, and change it to get the maximum benefit of the visual medium that is anime. even in books that do "show" properly, you still need to do more "show" when adapting it. not doing it makes the show worse. it being like the source doesn't change that. rezero has many flaws, and the sheer amount of exposition in it is certainly one of those flaws. let me paint you picture. X character has been stuck in a situation where he has to go back in time over and over again to save someone he cares about. but his final attempt was particularly painful which had an extreme mental toll on him. so he is about to give up. he is done with everything. the person he is trying to save, is someone he loves. now this is the important part, we have a Y person, who convinces Our X to go back and try again, while having feelings for X. because X saved her before, and she has to do all that she can to pay him back. so even though she may have had a chance with X by not making him go back and try again, Y makes the choice of helping X for the sake of X by motivating him to try again. so... by now you should know exactly what scene I'm talking about. but what you don't know, is that this exact scenario happens in 2 different anime, and one of them, has much better writing than rezero. in rezeros' case, this is episode 18 of season 1 if I'm not mistaken, and it takes a full episode of characters talking about their feelings, what they think, prep talking, arguing all within a single conversation. in the other show, which is steins;gate, this exact thing happens in ep 23, in a 1 or 2 minute long scene. and steins;gate was adapted from a visual novel, which is arguably even more wordy than a light novel. it was a show with 50 hours text combined into 24 episodes, but it still manages to be perfectly paced, and have the bare minimum of exposition. and steins;gate is a complicated sci-fi. you can spend hours just trying to figure out how the time travel exactly works though out the series. in theory it is a 100 times more complicated than anything in the anime of re:zero, yet it makes everything so easy to understand and follow. yet I have rewatched rezero twice, and I had no idea what that blue crystal that carried half the plot points of season 2 actually was or how it worked to be exact. I have very little clue about how the magic system works. and most character motivations and world building was done through out extremely long conversations. and don't you dare say they would be no way to create a complicated and deep characters without exposition because you know that's complete BS. I can go on for hours about everything in that show. I can write you an essay about why it's a masterpiece, and I can write you an equally long essay about why it's a piece of garbage. You may not agree with me, I don't expect you to do because I know exactly why some people think re zero is the greatest thing ever, but I can assure you that my rating on this show being from "not getting what makes rezero so great" could not be further from the truth. I know why it's a masterpiece. and that's why I know it isn't one. |
APolygons2Nov 9, 2022 5:11 AM
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Sanjii_1234 said: He is bad because of some obvious mistakes in animation. Yes that's all . It's my sensible argument against chainsaw man. bruh... I'm all for making fun of people who nit pick and pretend it's a big deal, but this doesn't make sense here even as a parody. what does the character writing have to do with animation? |
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Sanjii_1234 said: He is bad because of some obvious mistakes in animation. Yes that's all . It's my sensible argument against chainsaw man. ...What? I get that animation influences the emotions and expressions of a character, but it has no impact on character writing at all. |
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DedPanda said: He's basically an MC that makes fun of other MCs from shounen. Like...dude literally says fuck complex motivations and goals, I'm just here for tits. At this point that sums up CSM. There is no complexity or layered dynamics. It's just a face value unapologetic series. Precisely the main reason why I love Denji and why he's so enjoyable to watch. He's unique because he's unapologetically a big "fuck you" to the norms of trying to write a compelling Shounen protagonist. He's cleverly written. While there is a great exploration of certain themes that conflict Denji's peaceful way of life later on the series (there's more stuff I'd like to say about Denji and how he develops but that's going into manga spoiler territory), Denji is still Denji at the end of the day. I'd say if anyone wants a more serious protagonist written by the same author, I would recommend reading Fire Punch (or just wait for the anime if it ever gets announced). |
ElucidNov 9, 2022 5:31 AM
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| Kinda different than some of the other shounen MCs that want to be the *position of power*. But not unique in this regard as there are other MCs with different goals out there. Overall, I think he is decent. He isn't annoying like Midoriya or the Tokyo Revengers guy, but not as good as Itadori at being a laid back character type. |
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Sanjii_1234 said: lol i see what are you referring toHe is bad because of some obvious mistakes in animation. Yes that's all . It's my sensible argument against chainsaw man. |
| DA BRUH HAHAHAHAHA |
| He doesn't have an ounce of charisma. Sounds and looks like a NPC... The character introduction makes no sense. Nobody in their right mind would even try to pay that debt and get scammed like that. Let alone selling organs? Even if you never went to school. This is beyond "the character is naive/stupid".Even kid Goku was smarter than that. Don't tell me this is depression. This is Full R**ard level. And you never go Full R**ard. So what? Does the MC have mental deficiency? You can't relate or sympathize to this. That whole premise makes the whole thing not believable. A normal person would have ran away from that situation or faced it to death long before that whole zombie thing happened in 1st episode. Then, having your life revolving around boobs and sex is not relatable, even for a teenager, unless you have serious mental issues... it's not even funny... and almost inappropriate in this era of angry incels seeing women only as sexual objects, and sex as some kind of ultimate goal. There's nothing likeable about this MC, wow, so revolutionnary, making an insufferable MC. |
Radical_OrionNov 9, 2022 7:52 AM
PriinceYuki said: Champloo_Remix said: The lesson of "things aren't always what you expect" while wide-reaching isn't a particularly deep or original lesson. It's harder to relate as well when the character himself is barely written as a real human being. Well yeah since the start he's basically been a human dog to survive. I'm guessing the reason why manga readers love him is because of how he grows from this and changes overtime.. or because he's just different. I don't think that's a deep life lesson since that's just something that happens to all of us in life so it might've been a relatable experience rather than a life lesson. My point is how is that special or different from every generic shounen we've gotten in the last year? 2 years? 5 years? It's not original or done in any sort of meaningful, distinct or even realistic way to highlight any of Denji's being a real human being versus being a zany anime character. |
Champloo_Remix said: My point is how is that special or different from every generic shounen we've gotten in the last year? Compared to all the other generic shounen protagonists, Denji doesn't have a big heroic or anti-villain type of a dream, and that directly influences him to act in different ways unusual to your standard shounen mc, making many viewers interested in his character. He isn't fighting for honor, justice, power, status or revenge, he just want's the better things in life to not feel empty or suffer. Unlike other shounen protagonists Deji's a lump of bad qualities, so some might relate to that. Again, I'm not a manga reader or csm enthusiast so I might be wrong here, but that's the main argument I've seen for how he's unique (as of the recent episodes). Whether it's unique in a good way or bad is up to the individual viewer of course. |
  ⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯ Don't try and get me to cook I can take care of anything else but not that ⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯ |
| He's hard to like and kind of ironically the low point of the anime for me at the moment. In fact I've not even watched the latest episode of CSM just yet. Always something better to do. |
UberBatNov 9, 2022 2:03 PM
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Apolygon2 said: what does that even mean?I haven't seen a single protagonist in shounen that would throw a car at a demon with a civilian in it. |
DeOnePieceIsReal said: Apolygon2 said: what does that even mean?I haven't seen a single protagonist in shounen that would throw a car at a demon with a civilian in it. it means most shounen protags are role models. slightly perverted at worst. none of them would throw a car with a civilian inside at the enemy. I mean we have villain shounen characters like light from death note, But the good guy mcs are never like this. I'm sure there is probably some underground manga that 12 people have read that has MC like that, but from what I have seen, shounen mcs are way to scared to be a little bit of a dick. closest one I can think of is edward and early aot eren, but they are more bratty than they are a straight up dickhead. they would never actually do something like this. |
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Apolygon2 said: read my post #47 in this thread. i have mentioned many protagonist ,all of 'em are from popular manga. and i have literally written there that not all protagonist are going to be same.... even generic protagonist have many differences to them.DeOnePieceIsReal said: what does that even mean? it means most shounen protags are role models. slightly perverted at worst. none of them would throw a car with a civilian inside at the enemy. I mean we have villain shounen characters like light from death note, But the good guy mcs are never like this. I'm sure there is probably some underground manga that 12 people have read that has MC like that, but from what I have seen, shounen mcs are way to scared to be a little bit of a dick. closest one I can think of is edward and early aot eren, but they are more bratty than they are a straight up dickhead. they would never actually do something like this. |
DaOnePieceIsReal said: Apolygon2 said: read my post #47 in this thread. i have mentioned many protagonist ,all of 'em are from popular manga. and i have literally written there that not all protagonist are going to be same.... even generic protagonist have many differences to them.it means most shounen protags are role models. slightly perverted at worst. none of them would throw a car with a civilian inside at the enemy. I mean we have villain shounen characters like light from death note, But the good guy mcs are never like this. I'm sure there is probably some underground manga that 12 people have read that has MC like that, but from what I have seen, shounen mcs are way to scared to be a little bit of a dick. closest one I can think of is edward and early aot eren, but they are more bratty than they are a straight up dickhead. they would never actually do something like this. well let's see, edward? that's the only one I know and he is nothing like denji. he has a completely different style of writing, a completely different backstory, a completely different goal and a completely different character progression. do you actually think they are similar because they both have a more personal goal? really? I argue that even that single aspect is debatable since edward is technically doing it for his brother and not for himself. if you think edward is anything close to denji, you clearly have 0 clue about what makes people like denji. they are actually nothing alike. not even remotely similar. both are great, but not even slightly similar. specially by shounen standards of most MC being 70% copy pasted. |
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Apolygon2 said: every character have different backstory, different goal and different characters progression, name me some character who are exactly same and how they are same.well let's see, edward? that's the only one I know and he is nothing like denji. he has a completely different style of writing, a completely different backstory, a completely different goal and a completely different character progression. do you actually think they are similar because they both have a more personal goal? personal goals, bit of selfish, questionable morality and many other things really? if you think edward is anything close to denji, you clearly have 0 clue about what makes people like denji. they are actually nothing alike. not even remotely similar. both are great, but not even slightly similar. specially by shounen standards of most MC being 70% copy pasted. you also missed my point "they are not going to exactly same". even generic protagonist have differences. i can name many things about denji character which are found in a generic protagonist. |
DaOnePieceIsRealNov 14, 2022 7:15 AM
DaOnePieceIsReal said: Apolygon2 said: every character have different backstory, different goal and different characters progression, name me some character who are exactly same and how they are same.well let's see, edward? that's the only one I know and he is nothing like denji. he has a completely different style of writing, a completely different backstory, a completely different goal and a completely different character progression. do you actually think they are similar because they both have a more personal goal? personal goals, bit of selfish, questionable morality and many other things really? if you think edward is anything close to denji, you clearly have 0 clue about what makes people like denji. they are actually nothing alike. not even remotely similar. both are great, but not even slightly similar. specially by shounen standards of most MC being 70% copy pasted. you also missed my point "they are not going to exactly same". even generic protagonist have similarities. i can name many things about denji character which are found in a generic protagonist.Tanjiro: is nice, want to save someone Decu: is nice, wants to save everyone yuji: is nice, wants to save people Edward: is nice, want to save someone the mc for fire force: is nice, want to save people also their backstory is also very alike, most of them are normal guy doing normal things until X event happened. denji came from a completely different childhood, and that alone makes him different. denji is a bit of a dick. which again, early eren and edward are the closest, but they are a lot more bratty than they are dick-ish. denji, is struggling to find a goal. which is absolutely not a thing in any of these characters. they all know exactly what they want, and their goals stay the same from start to finish. but denji has achieved his goal twice already, and we're in episode 5! that is also a massive difference. all of his goals are short term. name one other shounen MC like that. |
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Apolygon2 said: it means most shounen protags are role models. slightly perverted at worst. none of them would throw a car with a civilian inside at the enemy. I mean we have villain shounen characters like light from death note, But the good guy mcs are never like this. I'm sure there is probably some underground manga that 12 people have read that has MC like that, but from what I have seen, shounen mcs are way to scared to be a little bit of a dick. closest one I can think of is edward and early aot eren, but they are more bratty than they are a straight up dickhead. they would never actually do something like this. lmao wow throwing a civilian to an enemy, so edgy, so deep !  This ^ is a prime example of a main character not acting like a role model for a deep reason, resulting from a lot of character development. It's not just some random edgy action... THIS is how you do it |
Dafrek said: Apolygon2 said: it means most shounen protags are role models. slightly perverted at worst. none of them would throw a car with a civilian inside at the enemy. I mean we have villain shounen characters like light from death note, But the good guy mcs are never like this. I'm sure there is probably some underground manga that 12 people have read that has MC like that, but from what I have seen, shounen mcs are way to scared to be a little bit of a dick. closest one I can think of is edward and early aot eren, but they are more bratty than they are a straight up dickhead. they would never actually do something like this. lmao wow throwing a civilian to an enemy, so edgy, so deep ! This ^ is a prime example of a main character not acting like a role model for a deep reason, resulting from a lot of character development. It's not just some random edgy action... THIS is how you do it you shounen fans are truly interesting. every one of you thinks their favorite shounen is the best one, while also bashing all the other ones to prove it. I haven't seen or read hunter x hunter. so, who knows, maybe I would think it's a way better show and has a way better character if I had. but even if that was the case, it wouldn't make denji a worse character. it's not some random edgy act. people like you just choose to look deeply into shows they like, while only seeing the surface of the shows they don't like as much. from the few episodes that i have seen, chainsawman is very well written, and the character's acts are not even slightly random. the fact that you think I meant denji is "deep" because he did that just proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. your example proves this even further. denji is unique because he did that. he isn't deep because of it. if I had to go into why he is good, I would talk about how his simple goals and way of thinking perfectly compliment the themes of the show, or how he is slowly but surely not only changing because of the other characters, but also changing the other characters by them interacting with him. I would talk about how his personality doesn't just start and end at his quirks or how his character arc perfectly contrasts with both power and aki. not the fact that he threw a god damn car. that's just a dumb example I used to say why he stands out from most shounen mcs. |
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this might be most delusional and surface level comparison i have ever seen. Tanjiro: is nice, want to save someone and if you are telling me denji is not nice then you need to watch the complete show again. we get to see that denji is good to devils and he wants to friend with them. he mostly act nice to others unless he is with someone like aki... he also protects people. funny, you are wanking about that one scene where where he throws the car... ignoring in the same episode he also try to protect a lady. hell, even the devil asked him why he is protecting human. how you gonna explain this? how it's different from Yuji or tanjiro who wants to protect others.Decu: is nice, wants to save everyone yuji: is nice, wants to save people Edward: is nice, want to save someone the mc for fire force: is nice, want to save people so, yeah, denji : nice and wants to protect others. yes, he is dick, but from core he is similar to other shounen protagonist. also their backstory is also very alike, most of them are normal guy doing normal things until X event happened. explain this. this makes zero sense lmaooodenji came from a completely different childhood, and that alone makes him different. denji, is struggling to find a goal. which is absolutely not a thing in any of these characters. this is untrue. we get to see itadori also don't have any goals and he is trying to find his goal. yes, he following his grandfather, but that's not his goal and we get to see him questioning his goal many times in the show. |
Apolygon2 said: you shounen fans are truly interesting. every one of you thinks their favorite shounen is the best one, while also bashing all the other ones to prove it. I haven't seen or read hunter x hunter. so, who knows, maybe I would think it's a way better show and has a way better character if I had. but even if that was the case, it wouldn't make denji a worse character. it's not some random edgy act. people like you just choose to look deeply into shows they like, while only seeing the surface of the shows they don't like as much. from the few episodes that i have seen, chainsawman is very well written, and the character's acts are not even slightly random. the fact that you think I meant denji is "deep" because he did that just proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. your example proves this even further. denji is unique because he did that. he isn't deep because of it. if I had to go into why he is good, I would talk about how his simple goals and way of thinking perfectly compliment the themes of the show, or how he is slowly but surely not only changing because of the other characters, but also changing the other characters by them interacting with him. I would talk about how his personality doesn't just start and end at his quirks or how his character arc perfectly contrasts with both power and aki. not the fact that he threw a god damn car. that's just a dumb example I used to say why he stands out from most shounen mcs. ok fair enough I'm anime-only on CSM, so I'll see if it can change my mind in farther episodes, but so far, I have no interest in that character and that's a huge problem for a main character... |
Radical_OrionNov 14, 2022 11:58 PM
you shounen fans are truly interesting. every one of you thinks their favorite shounen is the best one, while also bashing all the other ones to prove it. dude you are funniest guy in this thread lmaooo. you should be embarrass of yourself. you are complaining that others are trying to prove their shounen is the best, but you are the only one trying to paint denji as a unique protagonist blah...blah... meanwhile calling other protagonist are generic, indirectly bashing them.you are quoting every other user who thinks denji is nothing special and you are doing all the shits. no one in this thread said their shounen is best. @Dafrek doesn't said gon is best or HxH is great he was just giving a proper example, neither do others. now stop acting like a insecure Karen and throwing tantrum on others, go take your meds and don't come on the forums. you are just embarassing yourself at this point. |
DaOnePieceIsRealNov 14, 2022 8:56 AM
DaOnePieceIsReal said: this might be most delusional and surface level comparison i have ever seen. Tanjiro: is nice, want to save someone and if you are telling me denji is not nice then you need to watch the complete show again. we get to see that denji is good to devils and he wants to friend with them. he mostly act nice to others unless he is with someone like aki... he also protects people. funny, you are wanking about that one scene where where he throws the car... ignoring in the same episode he also try to protect a lady. hell, even the devil asked him why he is protecting human. how you gonna explain this? how it's different from Yuji or tanjiro who wants to protect others.Decu: is nice, wants to save everyone yuji: is nice, wants to save people Edward: is nice, want to save someone the mc for fire force: is nice, want to save people so, yeah, denji : nice and wants to protect others. yes, he is dick, but from core he is similar to other shounen protagonist. also their backstory is also very alike, most of them are normal guy doing normal things until X event happened. explain this. this makes zero sense lmaooodenji came from a completely different childhood, and that alone makes him different. denji, is struggling to find a goal. which is absolutely not a thing in any of these characters. this is untrue. we get to see itadori also don't have any goals and he is trying to find his goal. yes, he following his grandfather, but that's not his goal and we get to see him questioning his goal many times in the show.well if he gave 0 shits about human life, then he wouldn't be a dick, he would be terrible human being. which is not what argued him to be. also I was talking about goals there. denji may have saved someone on the way, but that is definitely not his main goal or even one of his main worries. .... explain what? most other shounen characters, not all, but most, are normal people with normal lives until.... something denji was not a normal kid with a normal life. edward was also kind of like this, but not to this extreme of a degree. his upbringing is unique. what is confusing about that? ..... there is a massive difference between questioning your dream a few times during 24 episodes, and changing your goal completely twice because you reached it after 5 episodes. Yuji may become more interesting later on, but so far, he is also basic. some small hints at him maybe changing later is not enough for me to call his motivation unique. |
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DaOnePieceIsReal said: you shounen fans are truly interesting. every one of you thinks their favorite shounen is the best one, while also bashing all the other ones to prove it. dude you are funniest guy in this thread lmaooo. you should be embarrass of yourself. you are complaining that others are trying to prove their shounen is the best, but you are the only one trying to paint denji as a unique protagonist blah...blah... meanwhile calling other protagonist are generic, indirectly bashing them.you are quoting every other user who thinks denji is nothing special and you are doing all the shits. no one in this thread said their shounen is best. @Dafrek doesn't said gon is best or HxH is great he was just giving a proper example, neither do others. now stop acting like a insecure Karen and throwing tantrum on others, go take your meds and don't come on the forums. you are just embarassing yourself at this point. I am simply observing. denji isn't the only unique shounen mc. Edward is very unique, so is eren and so is nagisa. none of these 3 are basic. Denji is just as none basic as them. I can point out just as many unique factors about those 3. also, I'm not bashing the other shows. I give All of them a fair judgement based on my standards. if any of their Mcs changes and becomes unique overtime, I will gladly call them unique too. |
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Apolygon2 said: DaOnePieceIsReal said: this might be most delusional and surface level comparison i have ever seen. and if you are telling me denji is not nice then you need to watch the complete show again. we get to see that denji is good to devils and he wants to friend with them. he mostly act nice to others unless he is with someone like aki... he also protects people. funny, you are wanking about that one scene where where he throws the car... ignoring in the same episode he also try to protect a lady. hell, even the devil asked him why he is protecting human. how you gonna explain this? how it's different from Yuji or tanjiro who wants to protect others. so, yeah, denji : nice and wants to protect others. yes, he is dick, but from core he is similar to other shounen protagonist. explain this. this makes zero sense lmaooo this is untrue. we get to see itadori also don't have any goals and he is trying to find his goal. yes, he following his grandfather, but that's not his goal and we get to see him questioning his goal many times in the show. well if he gave 0 shits about human life, then he wouldn't be a dick, he would be terrible human being. which is not what argued him to be. also I was talking about goals there. denji may have saved someone on the way, but that is definitely not his main goal or even one of his main worries. .... explain what? most other shounen characters, not all, but most, are normal people with normal lives until.... something denji was not a normal kid with a normal life. edward was also kind of like this, but not to this extreme of a degree. his upbringing is unique. what is confusing about that? ..... there is a massive difference between questioning your dream a few times during 24 episodes, and changing your goal completely twice because you reached it after 5 episodes. Yuji may become more interesting later on, but so far, he is also basic. some small hints at him maybe changing later is not enough for me to call his motivation unique. 1. denji being dick is not thr part of his character, it's simply for gag purpose. it shouldn't be taken seriously. i've already told you from "core" he really cares for others and he is nice person. in manga you will notice such things more. 2. i don't understand how denji an abnormal character. yes he had a bad childhood and he suffered, but that doesn't make him anything unique. most of the character suffered during their childhood, it's just denji suffered more. hardly anything unique. deku childhood was so not good, he didn't have his quirks, he was a loser, always crying...yes it's not as bad as denji but nothing unique. |
DaOnePieceIsReal said: Apolygon2 said: well if he gave 0 shits about human life, then he wouldn't be a dick, he would be terrible human being. which is not what argued him to be. also I was talking about goals there. denji may have saved someone on the way, but that is definitely not his main goal or even one of his main worries. .... explain what? most other shounen characters, not all, but most, are normal people with normal lives until.... something denji was not a normal kid with a normal life. edward was also kind of like this, but not to this extreme of a degree. his upbringing is unique. what is confusing about that? ..... there is a massive difference between questioning your dream a few times during 24 episodes, and changing your goal completely twice because you reached it after 5 episodes. Yuji may become more interesting later on, but so far, he is also basic. some small hints at him maybe changing later is not enough for me to call his motivation unique. 1. denji being dick is not thr part of his character, it's simply for gag purpose. it shouldn't be taken seriously. i've already told you from "core" he really cares for others and he is nice person. in manga you will notice such things more. 2. i don't understand how denji an abnormal character. yes he had a bad childhood and he suffered, but that doesn't make him anything unique. most of the character suffered during their childhood, it's just denji suffered more. hardly anything unique. deku childhood was so not good, he didn't have his quirks, he was a loser, always crying...yes it's not as bad as denji but nothing unique. In 2 points you have proven to have 0 clue what you are talking about. no, it's not just for gag humor. he is a dick. He is a dick that is very slowly changing, but he's a dick. he genuinely gave 0 shits about power, until a very specific moment when he understood her. he didn't want to be friends with the devil, in that moment he actually just wanted to keep the blood off the porn. problem is, his slow character development, makes no sense to people, who watch the expecting it to suck. and no his upbringing being unique is not about it just being painful. that is the dumbest thing I have heard. it's about him growing up alone, which results in him having wildly different values than others. it results in him being terrible at a social setting, due to him having 0 manners. it resulted in him never aiming for high which explains his short term goals. him not having proper food results in him results in him having more care for it. him fighting for survival makes so he isn't afraid to fight dirty, hence him only kicking the enemy in the balls. everything he does and feels, is a direct result of how he grew up. and saying "other characters have sad backstories too" shows your complete lack of understanding of his character writing. again, you shounen fanboys, only look at the surface level of the shows you don't like, while looking as deep as you possibly can in shows that you do like. I may have my own set of standards that are unique to me, but I judge all the shows the same way. and don't tired yourself by replying, this latest reply of yours showed me that you actually just don't want to even try to understand what this show is even trying to do. your mindset has started from "chainsawman = bad" and is constantly looking for ways to prove it. and when someone is like that, nothing will ever even slightly change their mind. If I continue, I will be just wasting my time. I said all I needed to say anyways based only 5 episodes. there isn't much more I can say that I haven't said already even if I wanted to continue. |
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Apolygon2 said: he never changed dawg. even in latest manga chapter he acts like that. go read some of the latest chapters. it's fucking gag. stop acting like pseudo redditor.In 2 points you have proven to have 0 clue what you are talking about. no, it's not just for gag humor. he is a dick. He is a dick that is very slowly changing, but he's a dick. he genuinely gave 0 shits about power, until a very specific moment when he understood her. he didn't want to be friends with the devil, in that moment he actually just wanted to keep the blood off the porn. in second episode, he literally said if possible he will befriend with devils, it's the reason him and aki was fighting.and no his upbringing being unique is not about it just being painful. that is the dumbest thing I have heard. every character have different childhood and their upbringing are different. you are telling me denji and deku have same upbringing?it's about him growing up alone, which results in him having wildly different values than others. it results in him being terrible at a social setting, due to him having 0 manners. it resulted in him never aiming for high which explains his short term goals. him not having proper food results in him results in him having more care for it. him fighting for survival makes so he isn't afraid to fight dirty, hence him only kicking the enemy in the balls. everything he does and feels, is a direct result of how he grew up. and saying "other characters have sad backstories too" shows your complete lack of understanding of his character writing. again, you shounen fanboys, only look at the surface level of the shows you don't like, while looking as deep as you possibly can in shows that you do like. that's a strawman dawg. I may have my own set of standards that are unique to me, but I judge all the shows the same way. you literally nitpicking when it comes to denji and go full surface level when it comes to other characters. stop it hypocrite.and don't tired yourself by replying, this latest reply of yours showed me that you actually just don't want to even try to understand what this show is even trying to do. your mindset has started from "chainsawman = bad" and is constantly looking for ways to prove it. |
DaOnePieceIsReal said: you literally nitpicking when it comes to denji and go full surface level when it comes to other characters. stop it hypocrite. I don't do this, not even a little bit. I will look into detail as much as possible in every show. I can explain to you in exact detail everything good that there is about every shounen mc. if it doesn't seem like it in this convo, is because in this specific argument, I am trying to explain why denji is unique. if this thread was about any other character, I would go in detail all the same. but It's pointless to argue with someone who starts the arguments without the intension of changing their minds. for you to know, I'm not a manga reader, and this hasn't become my favorite shounen. my favorite is the first season of the promised neverland, and my second favorite is assassination classroom, and my 3rd favorite is mob psycho 100. 4th favorite would have been aot if not for the latest season being disappointing to me, so 4th is beastars instead. this isn't my favorite anime of the year either. it's either 2nd or third. maybe even 4th. I like the show, but I don't have nearly as big of a bias as you think I have. I have 0 reason to look more deeply into this compared to other shows. you are the one who is refusing to dig deeper. he will slowly change by the end of the story. that argument with aki was there, but the scene he revealed he said it because he didn't want to admit the porn thing was also there. and your argument about the upbringing is not bad, it's none existence. wtf are you on about? how is that question related to anything I said? |
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Apolygon2 said: DaOnePieceIsReal said: you literally nitpicking when it comes to denji and go full surface level when it comes to other characters. stop it hypocrite. I don't do this, not even a little bit. I will look into detail as much as possible in every show. I can explain to you in exact detail everything good that there is about every shounen mc. sure you did this here: Tanjiro: is nice, want to save someone stop it man, at this point you are nothing but laughing stock.Decu: is nice, wants to save everyone yuji: is nice, wants to save people Edward: is nice, want to save someone the mc for fire force: is nice, want to save people for you to know, I'm not a manga reader, and this hasn't become my favorite shounen. so what? you are not a manga reader doesn't change whatever i said.he will slowly change by the end of the story. that argument with aki was there, but the scene he revealed he said it because he didn't want to admit the porn thing was also there. it was not the only scene there is other instant where denji showed such behaviour.and your argument about the upbringing is not bad, it's none existence. wtf are you on about? how is that question related to anything I said? you tell me how other characters upbringing is same. |
DaOnePieceIsReal said: stop it man, at this point you are nothing but laughing stock. yes, because that's the area where denji is unique compared to them. Tanjiro: is nice, and wants to save someone because that's the last of his family left alive. she is the only one he has left so it makes perfect sense for him to fighting to save her. he understand bonds better than anyone else, which is why he can understand and have empathy for the demons, but he understands their danger which is why he can still do what needs to be done with ease. and out of my examples, Tanjiro is the most basic Mc, I can write even more. again, I didn't go in depth, because I was purely focusing on the aspect that is similar in them for the sake of highlighting why denji stands out. also stop acting like an idiot, this is too obvious to not understand. I'm not saying every backstory is the same, I am saying the element of growing up alone and having nothing but survival in your mind as a kid is something that no other shounen mc has in their backstory, because most of them lived normal lives until X event happened. yuji is like that, so is decu, so is tanjiro, so is emma, so is, nagisa. they obviously have different aspects, but all of their growing up environment are a lot closer to each other than they are to denji. saying this isn't true, is just pure denial. "keep coping" People said the same about the mushoku tensei mc, which is the other character with slow and gradual development. I see 0 reason to believe you over the fans of the show, when I've seen examples of people being straight up wrong about this with mushoku tensei's mc. and that's besides the point of not even the manga being finished. also, why do you keep thinking a character being a bit of a dick means they are a fucking monster? just because he does nice things from time to time, it doesn't mean his dick moves are just gags. do you know how humans work? I have some news for you, this is how you properly write characters. making them only based a single trait is lazy writing. it's not, if character does nice thing he can't do dick move, or the other way around. him acting nice at certain points doesn't disprove his dick moves. and his dick moves don't disprove his nice acts. this is actually one of the dumbest Argument I have read about anything. |
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Apolygon2 said: it's fucking contradicts his character, for a moment he acts like he don't care for people and next moment he wants to save them. that car moment is nothing but a gag, and if it's not then explain to me why he act as two person. it's not possible for a character to act like that.[ just because he does nice things from time to time, it doesn't mean his dick moves are just gags. do you know how humans work? I have some news for you, this is how you properly write characters. making them only based a single trait is lazy writing. it's not, if character does nice thing he can't do dick move, or the other way around. him acting nice at certain points doesn't disprove his dick moves. and his dick moves don't disprove his nice acts. this is actually one of the dumbest Argument I have read about anything. listen you dawg, characters have core personality and they remian true to their personality. and denji from his core is a nice character and i have already gave you examples for that, there are many more moments in manga which proves that. stop acting like a dick and wasting my time. stop being a bigot, you pretends you know everything when you know nothing. |
DaOnePieceIsRealNov 14, 2022 11:22 AM
DaOnePieceIsReal said: Apolygon2 said: it's fucking contradicts his character, for a moment he acts like he don't care for people and next moment he wants to save them. that car moment is nothing but a gag, and if it's not then explain to me why he act as two person. it's not possible for a character to act like that.[ just because he does nice things from time to time, it doesn't mean his dick moves are just gags. do you know how humans work? I have some news for you, this is how you properly write characters. making them only based a single trait is lazy writing. it's not, if character does nice thing he can't do dick move, or the other way around. him acting nice at certain points doesn't disprove his dick moves. and his dick moves don't disprove his nice acts. this is actually one of the dumbest Argument I have read about anything. listen you dawg, characters have core personality and they remian true to their personality. and denji from his core is a nice character and i have already gave you examples for that, there are many more moments in manga which proves that. stop acting like a dick and wasting my time. stop being a bigot, you pretends you know everything when you know nothing. In this part, saving the girl and other civilian, was just him telling them to fuck off. the guy in the car, was someone who the devil was using against him. the situations are completely different. he saved people, but not at the cost of losing the battle. if that changes and he actually saved people by risking losing the fight later in the manga, it just means that you're a complete idiot and he does get development. |
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Apolygon2 said: devil was not using civilian, he thrown the car at denji, but not using it. it's was denji who throw the car, if he wanted he could have just put down the car, nothing would have happened. they are same situation.the guy in the car, was someone who the devil was using against him. the situations are completely different. |
| How do I feel about Denji? Eh hes alright I guess |
-insert NGE meme here- |
DaOnePieceIsReal said: Apolygon2 said: devil was not using civilian, he thrown the car at denji, but not using it. it's was denji who throw the car, if he wanted he could have just put down the car, nothing would have happened. they are same situation.the guy in the car, was someone who the devil was using against him. the situations are completely different. The devil being certain that he will do anything to save the people would be the thing that makes him lose. the moment he lost, he had a human in his hand. imagine if that same situation happened in a world where denji did want to save everyone. the devil could have used anyone as a hostage. what would make his fight a 100x harder would be the fact that he cared, not the fact that he saved that one guy. |
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Apolygon2 said: I'm not saying every backstory is the same, I am saying the element of growing up alone and having nothing but survival in your mind as a kid is something that no other shounen mc has in their backstory, because most of them lived normal lives until X event happened Goku was a kid living by himself in the wild after unintentionally killing his grandpa... Yes he's quite clueless and ignorant, but not dumb and still has a personality... The orphan kid living by themself is a common trope in fiction, and in shounen, it's literaly Luffy's backstory with Ace, robbing food when they were kids, etc... This trope often goes with the known trope "Social Services Does Not Exist", pretty convenient in animangas, which explains how characters like Denji lose their parents and end up being quasi enslaved without any social service intervention "I just want to live a normal life" is also a pretty common trope, I can think of Shinji from Evangelion, from the top of my head... My point is, Denji's introduction is not that unique. Again, my opinion is only based on the anime. But for now, is not a believable character... |
Dafrek said: Apolygon2 said: I'm not saying every backstory is the same, I am saying the element of growing up alone and having nothing but survival in your mind as a kid is something that no other shounen mc has in their backstory, because most of them lived normal lives until X event happened Goku was a kid living by himself in the wild after unintentionally killing his grandpa... Yes he's quite clueless and ignorant, but not dumb and still has a personality... The orphan kid living by themself is a common trope in fiction, and in shounen, it's literaly Luffy's backstory with Ace, robbing food when they were kids, etc... This trope often goes with the known trope "Social Services Does Not Exist", pretty convenient in animangas, which explains how characters like Denji lose their parents and end up being quasi enslaved without any social service intervention "I just want to live a normal life" is also a pretty common trope, I can think of Shinji from Evangelion, from the top of my head... My point is, Denji's introduction is not that unique. Again, my opinion is only based on the anime. But for now, is not a believable character... I agree with this actually, but it is something that is at the very least rare in shounen. at the very start of the conversation with this guy I even said, I don't think he is revolutionary or anything, I just think he is a very unique shounen mc. none of the elements in denji are new on their own, but a lot of his elements are very uncommon in shounen. |
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DaOnePieceIsReal said: average one piece fan watching another animeKing_KK said: told you, stay away from that hellhole reddit. look what it did to youStfu retard. Go troll someone else. Not interested in talking to retarded trolls with alt accounts. |
Sanjay63773 said: I don't really relate with Denji as of now. I ain't saying he's bad, his motivations are really absurd but it makes sense given his shitty life prior to joining the public safety devil hunter organization and Makima's affection for her. I am constantly tired of people considering Denji as a sort of revolutionary protagonist who re-invented shonen hero tropes due to his ideals and motivations to get some form of sexual gratification but that's pretty stupid. There have been many characters like Issei Hyoudou and many perverted MCs who share the same motivations as him to get some form of sexual gratification. He isn't revolutionary in any way at least by anime standards. To give some appreciation for Denji, he's a lot of fun to watch, and I really enjoy his interactions with Power. For now, he's a refined version of Issei Hyoudou from High School DxD. He still has a long way to to reach legendary status as Luffy. I'm looking forward to see how his story unfolds in Chainsaw Man I thought he was okay as a protagonist, but his potential as a character fell short of what it could be...And by the end of the manga, I hated him more than any character in the show. The only character I hated more was pochita because he gave Denji a second chance at life and joy. When I was watching the anime I was anticipating every moment where that dumbass suffered with a small twinge of joy in my black heart. |
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