Berserk Chapter 355 Discussion

Draconix814 said:

Definitely. Also, Miura will probably die before he draws the last chapter lol.

But yeah, especially Guts walking out on the Band of the Hawk was inspired by events in his life.

I think Casca will definitely be healed and therefore the arc that comes after will be the last one. Miura said that the story was about 60-70% done a few years ago I think, so whatever comes next will definitely be the final showdown. that said, I'll bet some of my money (always being cautious) that Miura will be more regularly releasing chapters now that he's getting used to digital art and that he's healing Casca. This is a major plot-defining moment, so now that he needs to build up to the next one, he should be able to hurry things up. That probably doesn't mean Berserk will be ending soon though, I still think in the next decade. :/ Oh well. More Berserk rereads for me.

Aardwolf94 said:


I agree with your definition of pacing, to an extent. I would add that its important that every part of the arc(s) feels vital to the overall story and the relationships of the characters. It should always be interesting, nothing should drag and take too long.

The Golden Age arc in that arc was very well crafted. It builds up to the Eclipse with obvious stuff like Zodd's appearance and warning but also with exploring Guts, Griffith (and Casca's) relationships. Really every encounter and battle is important and it never feels like it goes for too long. This all happened in ca. 10 volumes.

Lets compare with post Conviction Berserk. Guts sets out for Elfheim and wants to cure Casca but after the troll arc which introduced his new companions and magic, its just simply padded out for no reason. Vrtannis and the sea god shit add nothing to the "Cure Casca" story, there is no building up to that part. Instead Berserk is dragged down by focusing on the same old generic fights against shitty monsters & overall bad detours.

Griffith vs Ganishka was also repetitive. After the first battle it was already obvious that Griffith is basically in god mode now and that everyone worships + he has no problems whatsoever. Instead of moving the narrative along faster, Miura wastes lots of chapters on flashy fights. The new apostle characters are also not developed at all.

As a result of this padding it takes 18 fucking volumes to get to Elfheim which is simply ridiculous. There is a lot of fat that should have been trimmed but sadly Miura was milking it.

And I dont think we can say that its building up to a confrontation with the idea of evil. The chapter about that was declared to be not canon by Miura so clearly he wanted to leave it more vague. Hell forget the idea of evil, none of the God Hand members were explored post Eclipse. Its not even really building up to Guts vs Griffith, since Guts currently doesn't care about revenge and has done nothing to come closer to defeating Griffith + Griffith doesnt give a fuck about him.

Again 18 volumes the only thing that was achieved in Guts story is that he got some new friends, went to Elfheim and (apparently) cured Casca. Thats atrocious pacing, its like Bleach where one arc against Aizen takes like 20 volumes

So? Only the main trio needed development in the GA arc. Miura was smart not to waste time on other characters. Well thats the problem, they aren't really developing in any meaningful way (especially not for being in the story since 14+ volumes ) and their relationships compared to the main trio are shallow and cliche as fuck.

Like when you look at the end of the troll arc (the first arc with the shitty party) and now & you realize that not much has changed. Farnese got some new power but is still the same nice boring babysitter (who's dark desires were forgotten), Isidro is still same cocky obnoxious Shounen MC cliche, Schierke still has a crush on Guts and is the nice witch of the group who helps Guts with the Berserker armor etc. Even Guts himself who used to be a dynamic character is the same and stale as hell (again because Miura dragged out the cure casca story which meant his character couldn't move on)

And thats not even mentioning all the pointless like Azan, Isma, Magnifcio who are even worse.

Compare that with the Golden Age arc's beginning and end. The main trio and their relationships were developed far more, only in 9 volumes.

Here we ago again. I have explained my points multiple times (why retreading the same ground as the GA arc doesn't matter if the execution sucks, why Guts new party is full of shit characters and why their relationships are so cliche, why the pacing is ass post Conviction etc.) you just keep ignoring them or try to give cheap vague excuses. Like as if making the story more expansive & adding more shit characters is any excuse for shit pacing etc. Or don't forget your "smart" argument that just because the majority likes it, it means Berserk is a masterpiece that can't be bashed.

So clearly its your arguments that are weak as hell. And the only reason I have no "grounds" for my claims /why my opinion apparently isn't valuable is because you are clearly a hardcore fanboy of Berserk who disregards any sort of criticism & thinks it stays great throughout. Ever thought about that? How delusional can someone be...

Nice roundabout way of saying that your opinion is somehow more valid than mine, lol at the Big Bang theory example too, jesus talk about going overboard.

Don't need to respond because its again poor deflecting and shit excuses, instead of actually discussing things. Your opinion is just as subjective as mine, just because its supported by the majority doesn't make it any more valid. And you are the one who started with the personal attacks in the first place because he got butthurt that I was bashing Berserk

But hey calling people "retarded" because you think their arguments are weak is justified? Good to know.

Aardwolf94 said:

Yeah I do because his personality as it stands is obnoxious and as cliche Shounen as it gets. And looking at Guts and Farnese..obviously good character development changes a person so you are wrong there.

hellodarknesss said:



Cool ^^
Well I'm glad to know that, I think it's the best way it could go right now. I kinda had this One Piece vibe when they started traveling on ship with all these monsters popping everywhere, that was really epic. There is just so much material to make a long adventure like OP but I guess the circumstances make heading towards the closure the better solution. I'm still frustrated with what Berserk could have been but knowing the chapters will get more frequent is a relief.

Draconix814 said:

I DID explain all of my arguments already, even the "dumb" ones, which you have ignored.

And you seem to completely disregard all of the logical fallacies that I have addressed to you.

My argument that "the majority is right" (which I already told you that they aren't always right since that wasn't my point) was that YOU can apparently see some grand flaw in the series's structure that so many other people can't see. But then again, I didn't bother with it further explaining this, because you then stated that your opinions were subjective, thus it made me realize that you don't even understand the nature of the Burden of Proof.

And I and many others have already told you just how your points were subjective, and have also told you how the cast has developed, what certain things mean for the narrative being told, how the world is being built, etc. Yet, you brush all it off saying, "Nah bruh ur argument is weak, nice try Berserktards". You can't even seem to comprehend that Berserk might be building up to something bigger.

And to prove you wrong, both the Idea of Evil (or at least, the God of Berserk's universe) has been mentioned outside of God of the Abyss pt 2. It was in the Black Swordsman Arc, for instance, which last I checked was still canon. Next up, Miura did confirm that he was building up to the "inevitable battle between Guts and Griffith". As for the Sea God arc, while Miura did admit it was a tangent, you are also ignoring the massive amount of information, worldbuilding, and character building we got from that arc. Tangents are essential, especially in large and complicated narratives like Berserk with a lot of pieces moving.

But your points still don't stand with the characters. In your thread, you said this:

Changing as a person doesn't necessarily equate to "character development". Character Development: the portrayal of people in a work of fiction in such a way that the reader or audience seems to learn more about them as the story develops. This means that for character development to be considered character development, we need to learn more about them and see them act in different ways, instead of YOUR definition which seems to be that they need to completely change as people. Guess what? People DON'T change that easily. It takes A LOT of time for a boy to mature into a man for instance, but what takes even longer is for a grown person to change into someone else-- actually, it is damn near impossible unless you actually break their very sanity (*cough*Casca*cough*). There is actually scientific evidence to support this claim. Guts will never truly develop (mentally) anymore, for instance, because he is closing in on the age of 25-- when the frontal lobe of the brain stops maturing and is less capable of breaking out of habit. That said-- look at the progression of his physical body after he puts on the Berserker Armor. Miura deliberately drew him like he was 45 instead of 25, which says a damn lot about how the story of Berserk is progressing. Thankfully, the rest of the cast are developing at natural paces. We've learned tons more about each of the characters in Gut's group than we ever did about the Band of the Hawk. This gives both the audience and the characters a chance to form genuine and authentic relationships with each other, that is more than just a loose family vibe than the Band of the Hawk did.

But the biggest issue here is your assertion that more characters getting development is somehow worse than having just 3 characters develop. That is hogwash, no matter how you look at it. Let's be real, now that Guts is war-torn and tired, and Femto is no longer human, neither of them can truly get (mental) development any more. Neither of their personalities can change. EVER. Casca is the only one left of the original cast that can even go through any sort of development, thanks to this recent chapter. There are only 5 other humans in Gut's party as of their joining. Farnese didn't just stop developing as she cut off her hair, we learned a lot about her family situation, we've seen her grow increasingly attached to Guts romantically, we've seen her growing equally attached to Casca, which is sure to be a major plot point now that Casca's illness has been addressed. She's also worked up the courage to face magic and learn magic-- which she previously thought was heresy and probably the work of the devil. She's conquered so many fears of hers and casted away her darker side (for now at least), and has learn to fight on her own two feet. THIS IS A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT AND I STILL HAVEN'T SAID ALL OF IT. Shierke had a crush on Guts, yes, but all little girls act this way to those types of men. That said, Shierke also developed in many other ways as well, such as seeing Guts as more of a father figure now that her Grandmother passed, she has also learned to enhance her magic abilities and is learning how to be a teacher to Farnese, despite never having to be in that role before. That kid's going through a lot and she's the only one with the magical ability to keep Guts from going Mad Dog and killing himself-- which further strengthens their bond. Let me remind you, she's only 13. So is Isidro, who after Conviction was the only person Guts has taught his swordsmanship skills. Yes, he is the same doofus who he began as personality wise, but that doesn't define his character, especially now that he is experiencing more and more harsher stuff, also how he looks at Isma for example-- he's starting to look at women in a sexual way. Naturally, the kids are going to be less developed, however, because the point of them is to build them up as people instead of subverting their predefined characters. Serpico (which is the character you said had the least development), while somewhat credible, still doesn't encapsulate everything about him. He is still protective of Farnese, but we learn why after the Conviction arc, for example, because they are literally brother and sister and how he distrusts others-- refusing to get close to people (like Guts). That said, after confronting Guts and getting defeated, he learns how to open up to Guts in combat and in the recent chapters, on a bit more of a personal note. The reason why Serpico doesn't SHOW massive steps in development is because he is a very INTERNAL character-- analyzing others and always being careful and observant. He's not the type of character that would just lose it for the sake of flashy character progression because that literally would not make sense. The rest aren't human and/or are just introduced. Isma hasn't gotten much time to shine, but prophecies have indicated that she and Isidro might bang or she might just start a rivalry with Shierke. Puck is just Puck and while his purpose has been relegated providing comic relief with Isidro when things get too dark and to show the cast the way to the Elf Island, he still does serve a purpose and has a potential to serve bigger purpose after this arc.

^Now you can't say that none of the characters and their relationships have no development, as I literally defined the term and gave you evidence of my claims. It is clear that Miura spent a lot of time developing these characters and putting thought and depth into them. Just accept the fact that Berserk has evolved into more than just Gut's, Griffith's and Casca's stories now. It's fine if you don't prefer it over the Golden Age Arc, but still, undermining it with vague criticisms like "Guts is just the Daddy of the group", "Isidro is just a generic shounen protagonist lol", "Shierke is just the magic loli healer thing" (paraphrasing) just undermines everything that was done. What Berserk has evolved into is a larger-scale character-driven narrative that has far surpassed the limitations of the Golden Age arc-- it has been able to tell increasingly unique and personal tales while giving a more diverse cast and a more meticulously crafted world and a plot structure that constantly builds on itself with each chapter. This is not easy to do at all, especially not with a segmented manga-style (visual) format Berserk is. It takes a lot of dedication to the craft.

As for the fight with Ganishka-- that was also essential for plot and character building, but it's fine if you were a bit bored with it. I personally found it awesome, especially when Nosferatu Zodd and Guts teamed up, which is definitely going to contribute to the future of both their characters. It also greatly influenced the plot because it brought out the whole tree of life thing which is the only reason why it's possible for Guts and his crew to get to the Elfen Island, to begin with.

Swap out "big bang theory" with any other scientific theory and my point still stands. The big bang theory was just the first thing that came to mind.

And I am discussing things with you. Discussion: the action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.

I will reassert that nothing is free from criticism, no matter how highly acclaimed. But I will also assert that if you can call me a butthurt Berserk fanboy, I can freely call you a retard if I so choose.

And I am only going to respond if you don't brush over my argument about your logical fallacies. And if you do respond, you need to properly represent the information I provided to you, or else, I will just ignore you again. Everything that needed to be said has been said by me and others at this point, and the discussion will never go anywhere if you keep it up.

Bye :)

Ittan_Momen said:
Damnit!! Why can't Guts and Casca have a tiny piece of happiness?
Poor Guts. All that traveling and danger he went through only to have her mind break again when she sees him for the first time.