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Aug 1, 2022 11:52 PM

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Feb 2021
80
I'm honestly kind of impressed by the fact that you managed to alienate 99% of your userbase in a single update. Astoundingly bad decision making here.
Aug 1, 2022 11:57 PM

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Jan 2019
2432
I will also need some time to appraise this, but for the time being, here is some feedback.



(PC version.)

1: Please, add an automatic line break between the last line of the review and the rating.
2: I don't understand why the Like icon appears twice.
Bonus: I don't see my original categorized scores (Story, Art, Music etc.) appended in my reviews. I personally agree they were basically pointless, but either way this was promised and not fulfilled:

If you entered scores in the Story, Art,... sections on old reviews, these scores have been appended to the end of your review text.

(They haven't.)


The new tag system is not useful for older reviews... it's unlikely people will come back to each review they've read and think is deserving of tags. Still, it should be more significant in the long run, although it will depend on how lenient users are with the votes. Also, if the intent is to make things more informative, then I'd consider adding a "Personal" tag, since MAL itself says:
The best reviews use pronouns (I, me, my, you) very rarely.

So reviews that use a lot of those and don't substantiate much any of the arguments would be fit for that "Personal" tag, while the wording itself wouldn't imply much negativity or be toxic.

This is obviously just a great contrivance to add a "dislike"/"disagree" button. But here is a better one:



As for the addition of the three categories (Recommended, Mixed Feelings, and Not Recommended), this is probably the most positive aspect of the new system. It allows for all types of reviewers to be contemplated and it is more useful for readers as well.

Show who has voted on a review 🔜
The main reason for showing the username list of review votes is to make botting easily visible to all members. Understandably, negative reactions more easily incite anger in the community, so this was the reason the updated list of feedback options do not contain noticeably negative responses.

  🔖 Clicking the area which displays the total review votes will bring up a pop-up with the username list.

Is it just me or is this not working at all?
Aug 2, 2022 12:15 AM

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Jun 2020
1628
Lol. All of them are just positive indicators. What if it's just a dogshit hate review (like more than half the reviews on every popular show these days) that's just been inflated on the top ? There should be at least one negative indicator or at least an unhelpful button that cancels out the helpful effect.
Aug 2, 2022 12:21 AM

Offline
Nov 2011
160
Please consider some sort of negative feedback for reviews that push them out of the top.
The current system just rewards posting first quick bad reviews. When the good ones get posted later they have no chance of climbing.
Aug 2, 2022 12:46 AM

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Dec 2020
167
So being able to be more indepth with what you like in a review is nice but why not also be able to say what you didnt like (e.g. That review was informative but not well written) so the reviewee can recieve constructive criticism and improve his writting skill. So I would say even though the update could be amazing by FINALLY being able to say what you did and didnt like in a review we are left with just another fancier "Did you find this review helpful". I would really like to see more reacrions to be added with some being negative since that boosts the freedom of speech MAL wants to push as well as allows for some constructive criticism.
Aug 2, 2022 12:52 AM

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Oct 2018
1552
I can appreciate the idea behind this update but it feels like it was rushed out way too fast

1. I don't think a dislike button is 100% necessary, but as it stands all people are going to do is use the silly little confused and laughing emotes as a replacement. People should have some way to express dissatisfaction with something, whether it be a review comments system or a dislike button. As long as the amount of dislikes doesn't affect it when being sorted it's fine.
2. Pretty petty issue, but it'd be nice if the new recommended system went red > yellow > green. Having "mixed feelings" be grey looks pretty bad and draws way less attention than the current red or blue. The red pops even more than a 1/10 now, and will just lead to more people upvoting harsh negative reviews.
3. Make it a top 4 again, otherwise put a recent reviews section below the most voted
4. Just an idea, but it'd be nice if there was a delay between when reviews are visible and when a show finishes airing. Give everyone a chance to upload a review without it being a race, then release them all say 12 hours after the show ends.
5. Let people hide certain reviewers, then maybe I won't have to see people cry about seeing rebelpanda on the top page 24/7

Most of that's just useless rambling, all I really want is better visibility for new reviews on older shows without some weird "suggested" sorting system. This website will be toxic no matter what changes happen

Aug 2, 2022 1:26 AM

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May 2020
2509
wow im so glad they did this update! i wanted to look at a review of aot's first season and the entire story plot got spoiled because for some reason i have to go to the bottom of the review to see their score. WP MAL!~
Aug 2, 2022 1:27 AM

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Feb 2021
7485
Mr_Srijan said:
Lol. All of them are just positive indicators. What if it's just a dogshit hate review (like more than half the reviews on every popular show these days) that's just been inflated on the top ? There should be at least one negative indicator or at least an unhelpful button that cancels out the helpful effect.

danann said:
Please consider some sort of negative feedback for reviews that push them out of the top.
The current system just rewards posting first quick bad reviews. When the good ones get posted later they have no chance of climbing.

Yes, we need negative button too.
Aug 2, 2022 1:38 AM

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Oct 2018
1808
The new review system looks fucked up, than before. Y'all can't change every people's tastes bruh



“Once you've been loved once and have loved once, you cannot forget it.”
― Natsume Takashi
Aug 2, 2022 1:42 AM
Review Moderator
(。•̀ᴗ-)⌒✧

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Jun 2007
1943
Sheklon said:
Show who has voted on a review 🔜
The main reason for showing the username list of review votes is to make botting easily visible to all members. Understandably, negative reactions more easily incite anger in the community, so this was the reason the updated list of feedback options do not contain noticeably negative responses.

  🔖 Clicking the area which displays the total review votes will bring up a pop-up with the username list.

Is it just me or is this not working at all?


As explained in the announcement, this is an upcoming feature :)
Aug 2, 2022 2:04 AM

Offline
Feb 2010
11627
Suggestions

- Change "Nice" back to "Helpful". Helpful and nice are really different and it's what was intended with all the votes in the past. In the future, I think most ppl want to give a helpful review the proper feedback

- In addition to the report, how about a separate "flag" feature to flag specifically for misinformation. Misinformation in this case would be something factually incorrect, almost always due to an accident or oversight on the reviewer's part. A review mod can let the reviewer know and they should be able to edit it and possibly look at the anime again or its wikis to see if they were indeed wrong or made a mistake. If there are too many misinfo reports on one particular statement and nothings done, the review mod can remove that information from the review.

Aug 2, 2022 2:26 AM

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Feb 2022
443
Personally I don't really think this changes much but it's hard to tell till some time passes. I don't think it fixes the main issue. Also I don't think the reviewer space is as big as it was in the past so I'm curious to see if older names pop up with opinions.

You have a set number of users who are quick to post reviews and then they share those reviews with friends to give them that slight edge to be on the front page. Adding preliminary helped a little but not really. Then the issue is most don't care about the review, they were just looking to see if the score given matched their own. Randomizing the animes front page reviews as the default fixes that for the most part. You can have it searchable by top reviews if people want it but if every review written gets the same amount of time to be seen I think it makes things a little more fair and might encourage people to review older shows more often.

Edit: should have read more clearly I notice you have something in the works for combating just showing top reviews under "Update which reviews display on the Anime/Manga details page" I'll be curious to see how that's implemented.
DroebieAug 2, 2022 2:37 AM
Aug 2, 2022 3:05 AM

Offline
Oct 2017
5
Glad to see MAL staff are working towards updating the site, even though I disagree with some of the changes. I just hope they are earnestly open to community feedback and will make alterations based on it.

I'm not fond of reactions, they feel out of place here and are often misused particularly the "funny" reaction I often see used as a weapon to mock reviews people disagree (see Steam Reviews).
Personally I think it's hard to beat the basic upvote & downvote system where both values are visible, it makes things transparent and is often a great indicator of quality at a glance.

I do however, think it is a good change obscuring the rating value unless you open the review; This deters people from looking for a number and instead actually focusing on the content, it also makes it more difficult for people to attack highly positive or highly critical reviewers.

I think the biggest focus should be on providing visibility for well written reviews that lack interaction due to visibility. Hopefully the changes made to this system will aid in this regard, and if not that you'll continue to work on it until a good system is in place.
Aug 2, 2022 4:15 AM

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Nov 2021
7
So how do i determine if the review poster is a complete idiot or not if i don't see the score they give to a certain title? That's a little sad tbh.
Aug 2, 2022 4:17 AM

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Jan 2018
63
As stated in other posts I fully agree with the changes.

-

The more you take away the "number" or "score" out of the review the better.

Please, don't pay attention to the loud minority of Twitter/Discord reviewers who are upset about these changes. They don't care about actually reviewing in good faith, just the attention that gives them. Most of the complaints I've seen from them are that some of their reviews are not on top anymore. Garbage people, If they truly cared about making reviews they would be happier than people now have more tools to give feedback to them (Emoji expanded feedback seems great) - But do you want to know why they're upset?

Because by hiding the number you take away the main emotional weapon of the review. It's obviously not the same to have a "Not recommended" than a "1" on top for them to open a trashing review for a seasonal show for example. The number takes part to an emotional level, this is why some people also take reviews they're against -very- personal and why people gloss over numbers to make decisions as well. A number carries more impact, it's more emotional, they know this and they use it to manipulate. By removing this feature or at least taking it out of the center, they are forced to actually make something people will read, which, of course they can't because they mostly write trash updooted by their twitter circle.

While we still now retain some form of "scoring" inside the review, the number has been removed from the top, I believe that this will help in reducing the toxicity and backlash that reviewers receive from readers who disagree, if people don't see a number ( especially on top, like the first thing they see) they won't take it that personal.

Others have pointed out that people will now be less interested in reading reviews, this is good however, as the people who actually care about READING a review will take the time to read it and not just gloss over to see if they agree with an arbitrary number. This is a step in the right direction, however I believe that a numerical number "scoring" in a review doesn't make much sense altogether, a (REC/MIXED/NO REC) system as the one we are heading now is more useful review-wise.


S5_0014_81Aug 2, 2022 4:23 AM
Aug 2, 2022 4:25 AM

Offline
Nov 2017
57
Sotara said:
And if there is a review for ongoing series? Is there any criteria to distinguish reviews on aired show and ongoing?
If the review is made even though the reviewer hasn't seen all episodes yet (which is the case for all ongoing shows), then it says "preliminary" on the review (quite noticable as well).
Aug 2, 2022 4:41 AM

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Jan 2017
34
I'm not a fan of the whole "recommended", "mixed feelings" rating system... There's a difference between a show rated 10 and a show rated 7 by the writer.

I want to see right away what they rated it, please bring this back at least.
Aug 2, 2022 4:41 AM

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Feb 2021
7485
Lexicoo said:
Sotara said:
And if there is a review for ongoing series? Is there any criteria to distinguish reviews on aired show and ongoing?
If the review is made even though the reviewer hasn't seen all episodes yet (which is the case for all ongoing shows), then it says "preliminary" on the review (quite noticable as well).

Oh, sorry! I don't notice it! Thanks!
Aug 2, 2022 4:54 AM

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Nov 2017
57
Sotara said:
Lexicoo said:
If the review is made even though the reviewer hasn't seen all episodes yet (which is the case for all ongoing shows), then it says "preliminary" on the review (quite noticable as well).

Oh, sorry! I don't notice it! Thanks!
Actually, nevermind, it's apparently not there anymore. You now only see it if you press "open" for some reason, or if you're in the review section, but not on the anime's main page, which I find quite stupid. You shouldn't have to open the review to see that it's preliminary. So yeah, my bad.
Aug 2, 2022 5:06 AM

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Feb 2021
7485
Lexicoo said:
Sotara said:

Oh, sorry! I don't notice it! Thanks!
Actually, nevermind, it's apparently not there anymore. You now only see it if you press "open" for some reason, or if you're in the review section, but not on the anime's main page, which I find quite stupid. You shouldn't have to open the review to see that it's preliminary. So yeah, my bad.

Don't worry please!

Yes, it is strange decision to only appear when you click Open button, I agree.

Let's hope our wishes will be heard!
Aug 2, 2022 5:33 AM

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Sep 2010
4746
S5_0014_81 said:
As stated in other posts I fully agree with the changes.

-

The more you take away the "number" or "score" out of the review the better.

Please, don't pay attention to the loud minority of Twitter/Discord reviewers who are upset about these changes. They don't care about actually reviewing in good faith, just the attention that gives them. Most of the complaints I've seen from them are that some of their reviews are not on top anymore. Garbage people, If they truly cared about making reviews they would be happier than people now have more tools to give feedback to them (Emoji expanded feedback seems great) - But do you want to know why they're upset?

Because by hiding the number you take away the main emotional weapon of the review. It's obviously not the same to have a "Not recommended" than a "1" on top for them to open a trashing review for a seasonal show for example. The number takes part to an emotional level, this is why some people also take reviews they're against -very- personal and why people gloss over numbers to make decisions as well. A number carries more impact, it's more emotional, they know this and they use it to manipulate. By removing this feature or at least taking it out of the center, they are forced to actually make something people will read, which, of course they can't because they mostly write trash updooted by their twitter circle.

While we still now retain some form of "scoring" inside the review, the number has been removed from the top, I believe that this will help in reducing the toxicity and backlash that reviewers receive from readers who disagree, if people don't see a number ( especially on top, like the first thing they see) they won't take it that personal.

Others have pointed out that people will now be less interested in reading reviews, this is good however, as the people who actually care about READING a review will take the time to read it and not just gloss over to see if they agree with an arbitrary number. This is a step in the right direction, however I believe that a numerical number "scoring" in a review doesn't make much sense altogether, a (REC/MIXED/NO REC) system as the one we are heading now is more useful review-wise.

Actually you are the loud minority because by far most people just want the normal 1-10 rating that is used everywhere else on MAL. There is no reason to suddenly replace it with a completely different system in the reviews. I rate all anime with 1-10 so why shouldn't I use the same system in the reviews? It's good to have recommended/not recommended additionally to it but the score should be the most important element at the top of every review.
Aug 2, 2022 5:36 AM

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Sep 2014
4799
I can not stress enough how much I hate this change. MAL is not Facebook. I like MAL. I hate Facebook. I want "helpful" and "not helpful" I dont want ""nice"".

Add a funny button like steam, change the sorting to have the top rated, the newest and rising. Maybe give me a review which actually fits the aggregated score from over 100k users instead of some wildly deviating one praising or hating it.

I dont want to give the writer feedback I want to let everyone else know if the review fits the show or not.
"This emotion is mine alone.
It is for Madoka alone." - Homura
or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica.
Aug 2, 2022 5:44 AM

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May 2015
2347
This is the dumbest thing you all have done since getting rid of the thumbs down.
Aug 2, 2022 6:05 AM

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Jan 2018
63
ateks said:

Actually you are the loud minority because by far most people just want the normal 1-10 rating that is used everywhere else on MAL. There is no reason to suddenly replace it with a completely different system in the reviews. I rate all anime with 1-10 so why shouldn't I use the same system in the reviews? It's good to have recommended/not recommended additionally to it but the score should be the most important element at the top of every review.


Wow, it's like you can't even read the posts you reply to.

By the way, most people who agree won't show up to vouche their support, as it happens with everything, the people who are in disagreement will be the most loud ones but how many are there? 20-30? In a 100K website? And they happen to be the shitty twitter reviewers. Good update indeed.

Aug 2, 2022 6:38 AM

Offline
Sep 2010
4746
S5_0014_81 said:
ateks said:

Actually you are the loud minority because by far most people just want the normal 1-10 rating that is used everywhere else on MAL. There is no reason to suddenly replace it with a completely different system in the reviews. I rate all anime with 1-10 so why shouldn't I use the same system in the reviews? It's good to have recommended/not recommended additionally to it but the score should be the most important element at the top of every review.


Wow, it's like you can't even read the posts you reply to.

By the way, most people who agree won't show up to vouche their support, as it happens with everything, the people who are in disagreement will be the most loud ones but how many are there? 20-30? In a 100K website? And they happen to be the shitty twitter reviewers. Good update indeed.

Yeah you wrote an entire book just to say that the rec/not rec system is better than the old scores and only a loud minority wants them back, which is factually wrong because almost everyone wants the old system back.
Aug 2, 2022 6:56 AM

Offline
Apr 2017
144
I already saw those changes yesterday but couldn't find any announcement, so I was really confused, but I guess I was just too early.

Overall I think this is an interesting change. On the one hand I wasn't expecting to see an update here because I didn't really think the reviews were lacking anything that would warrant spending resources on updating them while other things are in greater need of updates. On the other hand I can see how it would make sense to update parts of the page and start with something that isn't as important as other parts. My general feelings about the change are mixed. I like the fresh design, it somehow looks way more modern than other parts of the page while still not sticking out too much. It does feel a bit weird in the entire page context, but with coming updates I'm guessing this will be standing out less. I also like the design of review writing page. I have to admit, I haven't written any reviews myself and I don't know how the box previously looked, but the new design looks clean. In contrast to other text boxes this really looks good.

There are however a few things I'm not that big of a fan of. The most important thing for me is the fact that you are not able to see the score a user gave immediatly. From other users comments I got that not everyone is interested in the scores so I can see why they were put to the end of the review. I can also see that they don't necessarily reflect what a user wants to convey with their review. Having an explizit statement that is saying that a user recommends or doesn't recommend a show sounds like a good idea on paper. But not everyone thinks like this and personally I use the score as the most expressing meta on a review. So for me it would be better if it was visible in plain sight from the beginning. Furthermore, echoing what a few other people said, I'm really not a fan of the emojis. They feel really out of place on MAL in general, somehow they feel a bit like the "How do you do, fellow kids"-meme. Additionally, from what other users already mentioned, it should be clear by now that users have already found ways to express that they dislike certain reviews. I'm not going do dive into the discussion whether it needs a dislike button or not, but I'll say that if you only want to have positive feedback on reviews you might have to go over your selected feedback options. And finally, I'm not entirely sure how the reviews shown on the anime page are selected and why they were reduced to three instead of four, but I'm missing the filter options on the main page. Does the filter I set on the list of all reviews affect the views I see on the main page? Will we be able to filter those if thats not already the case? Or will the algorithm always decide which reviews are shown and only the full list allows filtering and sorting?
Aug 2, 2022 7:00 AM
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Jul 2018
564125
I do wish you added more options to express a dislike towards the review. The only one is "confusing", which even then doesn't really help. But overall it's not the worst change in the world.
Aug 2, 2022 7:10 AM

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Oct 2010
21126
fucking garbage update but who cares anyways, keep making mal more and more trash.
Aug 2, 2022 7:43 AM

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Feb 2011
3594
Apparently, in the 2022 the only thing you are allowed to do is either praise people or report them, what a world!
Aug 2, 2022 8:10 AM

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May 2015
2347
Not only was this a stupid idea but now you've got day old accounts and alts giving 1 star/not recommended "reviews" with bots upvoting them. What a shit show
Aug 2, 2022 8:40 AM
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Mar 2019
1
thats kinda disgusting, ngl. you should keep old feedback system.
Aug 2, 2022 8:41 AM

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Jan 2021
2202
the overall rating is just so at the bottom so bad



I hope no one I know irl sees my secret account~

Anyways, do I look cute in this outfit?~

Aug 2, 2022 8:45 AM
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Apr 2016
17
Very nice update! keep pushing!
Aug 2, 2022 8:54 AM

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Nov 2013
61
Is there a way to give multiple reactions instead of being limited to 1 only?
Aug 2, 2022 9:14 AM

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Jun 2014
164
You just made finding a serie you want to watch tedious, and also made it so i wont bother reading reviews, and i do not think i am the only one feeling like this.
As removing the score does not change the fact that everyone rate shows diffrent and got diffrent view on a show, all you can hope is to find some that got similar taste and use their score as base if it worth watching or not for you.

When checking a serie that had a synopsis i like, i check out the reviews and after some time you know some people that got similar taste like you have and you look at the score they give, if the score is middle or better you read the view or maybe just start watch it.
But with so many anime series there plenty of series not reviewed by some you know so you check out those that rewiew and what score they give some shows you know and base on that you can form and idear if you got similar taste, and there for can use their review as a base for if it is a show you going to try or not.
But now i need to look true every review and finding if those that wrote the review got similar taste very long and tedious as i have to read true their review on each serie and so on, if not some i already know, so you basicly made the review section useless for me with the new system, well done

Beside is a very big diffrent between a 7 vs 9, 9 vs 10, 6 vs 8, and so on, new score system is useless.

TharnokAug 2, 2022 9:20 AM
Aug 2, 2022 9:43 AM

Offline
Jul 2017
14582
So out of all the "genuine" updates that MAL has needed all this time, it's the "Instagram becoming TikTok" trend that forces the hand for everyone's liking.

Honestly, what a garbage update just to incorporate social media trends into what is already a maligned system. Like, who wants to see "recommended", "mixed feelings" or "not recommended" while hiding the legit score (which has always been the first thing that people see), and while at it, add emojis because MAL must follow the social media trend like Discord, Steam and such. NO.

Even if the review system is already shit at this point, I would rather be minimalistic to just have a score and the actual review content, this is more than enough for me. This is purely the adage of "don't fix what is already broken", and this fix ensures that all reviewers will have constant headaches from labelling the reviews as spoilers or to hiding the intended score just that bots will not be able to notice the change.

MAL is like a corporate shill even now: the suggestions section mean NOTHING AT ALL, and updates "for the better" will turn the fanbase away from the site.
Well done for making 1000% sure to disconnect the community more, one update at a time, dear admins and mods.

Just pains me and others as reviewers to make a job that is easy, now hard for us.
Aug 2, 2022 10:47 AM

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Aug 2011
77
I honestly don't think this change was for worse, I mean, MAL was a laughingstock for ages because NO ONE knew how to use the score system even though it had instructions along with the score numbers so using emojis and ect instead of numbers on the reviews actually might be for the better. Yeah reviews can be just a hobbie but at the same time I'm sick of seeing people reviewing an anime describing it as a shitshow but giving it a score of 6.
Aug 2, 2022 10:54 AM

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Jun 2017
37
The "Helpful" button has been misused as an "I agree" button for a long time which pushes awful reviews that are written with the sole intention of being inflammatory to the top, especially on popular anime. Moving away from that and adding a bit more nuance to the feedback you can give a review is a good idea. Once the issues have been worked out and things have settled down, I think this will be an improvement.

I'm not a big fan of making the numerical score harder to see though. I can see why it would make it easier to understand what people think at a glance, which is nice, but in some cases it also oversimplifies an opinion. Although, as long as people are still able to add a numerical score somewhere that is visible, I think it is fine.

However, even with all this, the intentionally contrarian reviews will still exist and will still be voted for by people who enjoy being negative, so my favorite thing about this update is actually that the review section takes up less space on the page. I have always thought that one of the biggest issues with this site was that on many popular anime, the review section that takes up a big percentage of the page is filled with poorly written nonsense that doesn't represent the average opinion on that anime at all, only representing a tiny but very loud minority of the community. Now that issue is less visible, which is great.
Aug 2, 2022 11:01 AM

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Nov 2013
21
why has my Back When You Called Us Devils review disappeared from the page? it was 1 of the 2 reviews, and now there are none there.
I can still see it on my review's list, but not on the manga page.
Aug 2, 2022 11:28 AM

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Jun 2017
37
Minearm said:
why has my Back When You Called Us Devils review disappeared from the page? it was 1 of the 2 reviews, and now there are none there.
I can still see it on my review's list, but not on the manga page.
It looks like "Preliminary" reviews (ones written either before a series has finished, or ones written of only a portion of the episodes/chapters) don't show up on the main page of finished series anymore. I agree with this change as I don't see the point in writing a review of a longer anime after only watching like 6 episodes. It is fine if someone doesn't like a show and then stops watching it after only watching a bit of it, but writing a review of it without seeing the whole thing is silly to me.

Anyway, with your review on that one manga specifically, it looks like you wrote it after the manga finished with all chapters listed, and yet it is still listed as "Preliminary". This seems like a mistake to me and I hope it will be addressed.
Aug 2, 2022 12:03 PM
Shrek

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Sep 2018
348
NextUniverse said:


The ability to intelligently use the dislike button has been proven to not work for the average MAL user on multiple different occasions. In 2015 (fuck if I know actually), MAL removed its "not helpful" button due to the a large magnitude of seething brigades full of anime fans who simply could not cope with the fact that someone dared to post an opposing opinion. On paper, and in practice, adding back this new ability to express an """""opinion""""" simply objectively doesn't work.



People are already confusing a confused button as a dislike button.

Wait for the "ratio" on MAL to become a common occurrence.



The fact it's already being used as such and will be branded the "negative" button for the review is just another reason they need to add a negative reaction. New people to the site will see reviews full of confusing reacts instead of negative ones that are much clearer with context given that confusing isn't necessarily bad
Aug 2, 2022 12:09 PM
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Aug 2016
3
Add a dislike button or emoji

Place the score next to the "recommended" or "not recommended" status on top of the review

Also why reduce the top reviews on an anime's page to 3? Bump it back to 4 top reviews whether recommended or not

Aug 2, 2022 12:40 PM
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Aug 2009
4
This seems like a step in the right direction.

The "Recommended", "Mixed Feelings" and "Not Recommended" are great. I don't care about the score of an individual giving an opinion, I have the overall score of thousands/millions of people from the start. However, I do want to know the most helpful from each of the 3 new sections and from those, "their reasons".

Everyone have the right to like or dislike an anime, but I want to know why they did and if those reasons apply to me. That's why I read a review and not just see the overall score or popularity.
That way we wouldn't need a dislike option and people would just focus on writing reviews that are well written/explained and the reactions would be used for improving the writers skills.
It wouldn't matter if the most voted review is a "Not recommended" because we would have 3 different tops and we can use our own criteria to decide if we want to watch the anime based on different sides.
Aug 2, 2022 1:17 PM

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Nov 2020
572
I don't understand why the reviewer's rating was replaced by whether they recommend it or not
Aug 2, 2022 1:32 PM

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Oct 2016
1
Noooo, i want my numbers baack!
Aug 2, 2022 1:35 PM
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Jun 2019
2
S5_0014_81 said:
As stated in other posts I fully agree with the changes.

-

The more you take away the "number" or "score" out of the review the better.

Please, don't pay attention to the loud minority of Twitter/Discord reviewers who are upset about these changes. They don't care about actually reviewing in good faith, just the attention that gives them. Most of the complaints I've seen from them are that some of their reviews are not on top anymore. Garbage people, If they truly cared about making reviews they would be happier than people now have more tools to give feedback to them (Emoji expanded feedback seems great) - But do you want to know why they're upset?

Because by hiding the number you take away the main emotional weapon of the review. It's obviously not the same to have a "Not recommended" than a "1" on top for them to open a trashing review for a seasonal show for example. The number takes part to an emotional level, this is why some people also take reviews they're against -very- personal and why people gloss over numbers to make decisions as well. A number carries more impact, it's more emotional, they know this and they use it to manipulate. By removing this feature or at least taking it out of the center, they are forced to actually make something people will read, which, of course they can't because they mostly write trash updooted by their twitter circle.

While we still now retain some form of "scoring" inside the review, the number has been removed from the top, I believe that this will help in reducing the toxicity and backlash that reviewers receive from readers who disagree, if people don't see a number ( especially on top, like the first thing they see) they won't take it that personal.

Others have pointed out that people will now be less interested in reading reviews, this is good however, as the people who actually care about READING a review will take the time to read it and not just gloss over to see if they agree with an arbitrary number. This is a step in the right direction, however I believe that a numerical number "scoring" in a review doesn't make much sense altogether, a (REC/MIXED/NO REC) system as the one we are heading now is more useful review-wise.




I'm not a reviewer, although my account isn't very old I've been reading MAL reviews for about 10 years now, pretty much since I was 7, this is the first time I'm ever making a forum post because I'm just that peeved. 

I don't care too much about the perspective of the reviewer since they're the minority and although they're being screwed over, I'm mainly focused on my perspective because at the end of the day this inconveniences people like me the most (referring to quantity here, well established, good reviewers are important and are arguably affected more but there aren't that many of them, we're talking about the masses here), the people who might not have a MAL profile picture (or even a MAL account) who use this website to make an anime list to keep track of shows and use the review section to see if a show is worth their time or not and many other equally important things that I'll get into later. 

I overuse parentheses.

I'm going to be addressing literally everything you said here (lmk if I missed anything after you're done reading) but not in the same order of what you've said so please bear with me, I'm terrible at writing but I'm doing my best so this post is going to be disjointed and might not flow very well. I'm singling you out only because I personally think that everything you've said here is the best the people on your side of the argument have to say so take that as a compliment.

Please keep in mind that this is in good faith, if my tone says otherwise just blame it on poor word choice, I know I might come across as overly blunt but I again have to emphasise my inexperience, the target audience for this post isn't even you specifically but everybody who has an opinion on this update in general.

The whole "Recommended/Not Recommended>Score Number" thing you said at the end is actually rubbish, the difference between scoring something a 7 and scoring something a 10 is the difference between Naruto and Monster, the number does a GOOD job at quantifying the enjoyment/satisfaction of the reviewer and this is why literally reviews of every medium be it music reviews or movie reviews all use numerical scoring (most commonly on a scale of 1 to 10 or something equivalent). Ask the average music twitter user what their 10s are and they’ll bombard you with great albums, a numeric score is really common and not exclusive to reviewers, go check out Rate Your Music for example. 

I consume a decent amount of reviews, not just anime ones. Literally everybody from the biggest individual (music) reviewer on the planet (referring to Anthony Fantano here though most other individual reviewers are included as well) to Pitchfork, Rolling Stone and Rotten Tomatoes use numbers for their reviews and it's been this way for decades because it’s good, it works and it has stood the test of time, so please understand that you and people like you are ironically the loud minority with no self awareness, the top reviewers are the most passionate ones and have been doing this for years. If they’re unhappy that’s a red flag.

I wanted to see how bad the new review system was so I checked out the front page review section of "Seishun Buta Yarou wa Bunny Girl Senpai no Yume wo Minai" since I remember the front page reviews on that were on the negative side and boy was I shocked when the front page reviews were incredibly positive, I'm talking all 8s and above and they all had an ok amount of likes, a couple hundred to 1k. I then sorted the reviews by most helpful and that's where the familiar, based reviews with way more most helpfuls, (like a few thousand more) and they came in with WILDLY different scores. I tried this for a few other shows and I noticed that all the front page scores were so much more positive and I quickly realised why.

Either the algorithm is biased towards pushing positive scores to the front page or it failed to take into account that not as many people make negative reviews unless they're super passionate. It's definitely one of them and that's a fact. Most people literally just give the reviews they like a helpful and call it a day. Think I'm making shit up on the spot? No, I tested this. I went back to Bunny Girl, filtered the reviews to show recommended reviews only and there were 20 pages. I then filtered the not recommended ones and there were only 3 pages. If this isn't typical corporate indifferent incompetence then I don't know what is because I, a layman, knew this would be a bad idea yet the people who made these changes are disconnected enough to actually go through with it. I think they've reverted the changes for now, the front page is back to being sorted by most helpful but just understand that reviewers and review readers alike both had a very good reason to be mad, saying they don’t while dismissing them as a “twitter circle” isn’t right. I hate the changes and I don’t use twitter or interact with anyone on this site so here’s your first (of many) exceptions.


This paragraph might seem a bit off topic but I'd just like to say this moving forward, it's relevant. I'm paraphrasing stuff I've heard before. Reviewing is neat but it's more than just helping people curate and have an easier time figuring out whether something is worth their time or not (which is very important). A review doesn't tell people what to think but helps give them pause and make people actually think about why it is they like or dislike the things that they like and dislike and it's also an expression of oneself through taste, reviews can be very creative, passionate and again make you think about things you might not have thought about the show otherwise. This is why individual reviewers can be popular, because they treat it as a craft and are really good at it.

I know I said that I don't plan on focusing on the perspective of the popular reviewer too much and a part of that is because I'm not a reviewer myself but despite that it is important and relevant to address them because this update is demoralising for them and that's bad for me because that means the talented, well established reviewers might quit or just care less which means a drop in overall MAL review quality.

Perhaps there are some twitter circle reviewers but even then you are completely dismissing the extremely talented, passionate and meticulous reviewers on this site who are getting screwed over for no reason. I'm going to use my personal favourite reviewer on this site, SingleH as an example, he probably takes reviewing more seriously than anyone else on this site and boy is he crazy good at it (check out his deleted Psycho Pass 3 review for example, it's on his profile page). Here's what he had to say about the changes:

"Trying to dismiss and discredit the current state of the reviewing community on MAL in an attempt to justify these changes just makes you look sad. Over the course of the last six months especially, the mods have been extremely diligent about punishing cheaters who use bots and sock accounts to boost their numbers. Anyone who has a personal following or a consistent record of high “Helpful” counts did not cheat these things into existence. They worked for months—or in my case years—with little recognition, purely to improve their craft and slowly but surely earn a reputation like real adult men and women. No one who writes reviews seriously or with any semblance of effort does so solely out of a desire for blind self-satisfaction. They do it to reach others and to show themselves, and removing any competitive means of reaching the top fundamentally destroys any reason to expend effort. This notion that anyone would be as genuinely satisfied with themselves seeing their review on the front page based on a partially random algorithm that filters out all dissenting opinion as they would had they actually earned their place among the top four in a free marketplace of ideas is completely dystopian and psychotic to me. “If you’ve got a problem with the world, change yourself. If that’s a problem, close your eyes, shut your mouth, and live like a hermit.” -Motoko Kusanagi. If you get no attention, and you’re sick of those who do, then write your own reviews. Prove your own arguments. Galvanize support. Fight back. Don’t just go b*tching and moaning to Mommy and Daddy, who I guess in this case are the MAL mods. The removal of competition is something only a privileged, sheltered, immature child would desire."

He's based, god bless his soul.


Having scores moved to the end of the review is OK, I kinda agree with you on this a little bit but only if the "Recommend/Mixed/Not Recommended" bit is removed from the front and used strictly for filters, it's really unneeded and draws too much attention away from scores and I've already established that scores are important, it's not just a trick weebs specifically use in anime reviews for shock factor. Trying to reduce backlash and toxicity from reviews is actually pointless, if people go to your page and whine about your review you, whether you deserve it or not, that's just how reception works, literally every reviewer/publication regardless of size or medium has to deal with this. If they're being toxic and taking it too far/personal, the MAL rules exist and although I haven't read them recently, I'm sure cyberbullying and being overly hurtful are against the rules so that's what the Mods are paid to take care of.

Haters who spew nonsense while being hyperfocused on scores are always going to exist, not everyone has basic decency and although we can't stop them we can ban them when they break the rules. Backlash is important even if you think the reviewer is in the right because that's how opinions work, the people who unironically think Demon Slayer is a 10 exist and we must simply deal with it.

Finding out who liked a review is nice, good feature, 10/10 although for some reason the feature is unavailable for me. Botting is cringe.

Now about reactions. The people who're unhappy with this change don't focus on them much because of how bad everything else is but I'll talk about it here. I think they're actually kinda cool, it's a good feature conceptually but I think they could tweak it a bit, it has some pretty glaring flaws and the Facebook aesthetic looks bad, they gotta beautify this. On to bigger issues with it. The "Love it" reaction is useless, the "Nice" reaction needs to be renamed to Helpful or something that isn't "Nice" and the, "Well-written", "Funny" and "Creative" options are good ideas but need to be done differently. Not too sure about "Informative" since well written exists and "Confusing" seems like a dumb idea.

Maybe revert the changes back to how it used to be with Helpful and make it so that if you found a review helpful, you could optionally pick one of "Well-written", "Funny" etc. This would only help with filtering and I think that's good enough, I know I'll often sort by creative or funny since I like the poems and other fun reviews. Making most voted count solely on helpful is logical and makes sense, the Mods destroying this and covering it up with cool reactions doesn't stop it from being a bad idea, they can make the reactions work without messing everything else up, the shift from Most Helpful to emojis is wild.

Now on downvotes. I know you didn't mention them but others did so I'l quickly gloss over them. They're a bad idea, anyone who's used reddit for a reasonably long amount of time knows that that place can be a cesspool, the best arguments can be downvoted to hell just because people disagree or don't like what you're saying or just general stupidness. Try mentioning questionable Chinese history in r/sino or go to the pro Russia subreddits and just read the stuff they're posting or just think about why MAL removed downvotes in the first place. Face it, weebs are far from the first things that come to mind when I think of decency and wit, especially on the internet. Downvotes don't make sense because they're DEFINITELY going to be abused, if you want to disagree with a review just give a Helpful to a review you think is good and let the most voted reviews get to the front page as god intended.


"Others have pointed out that people will now be less interested in reading reviews, this is good however, as the people who actually care about READING a review will take the time to read it and not just gloss over to see if they agree with an arbitrary number."

The number isn't arbitrary but this is 100% a good point. Maybe just keep scores at the end of the review permanently? I get where you're coming from 100% but the weight of "recommended" and "not recommended" vary greatly and it's annoying if that's the first thing people see, we're better off without it and just keeping scores at the end anyways. My opinion on whether the review is at the front or back is honestly really weak since this doesn't affect me, I just the reviews and as long as the scores are there somewhere, I'm happy. Do note that reviewers could also start the review off with something like “2/10, anyways…”. I don't support that though, mods could remove those reviews, score placement isn't the biggest issue here and if people do think it that it's absolutely devastating to their reviews, you're right, they are garbage reviewers.

I'm not a reviewer and I'm mad that the scores aren't at the top anymore because it inconveniences me and uselessly messes up competition. If some reviewer has a well written wall of text ready to be posted the moment an anime has finished airing then good on them.

To the mods: The intent behind this update might be good but the execution is hurting existing reviewers and readers alike. Figure something else out please. I don't know how flawed the previous Helpful system was but I am 100% sure that it's better than what we've getting now, ya'll managed to make SingleH quit, crazy.

If you have read everything, I just want you to know that I appreciate you taking the time to read my haphazard but passionate rant. Thanks.
pinkhorizonAug 7, 2022 4:26 AM
Aug 2, 2022 1:43 PM

Offline
Sep 2017
172
pinkhorizon said:


ya'll managed to make SingleH quit, crazy.



You know, I'm also strongly against this update, but getting rid of attention-seeking frequent reviewers with a mean score of 3 is actually the only plus I see in it. Almost every review these people make is full of pretentiousness and negativity, and 90% of the things they complain about don't apply to the average viewer who, you know, just wants to enjoy anime.
BaronBrixiusAug 2, 2022 1:46 PM
Aug 2, 2022 1:48 PM

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Jan 2021
442
ok, so... Please consider improving mobile (android) app.
Roxy

Aug 2, 2022 1:53 PM

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Apr 2022
483
I like this and the randomness it brings. The emojis are fucking dumb though. That is all.
I may make you feel but I can't make you think.

Aug 2, 2022 2:09 PM

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Jan 2020
35
Nooo, now I won't be able to find hidden gems that have top reviews for 9-10 but overall lower score. It's a mess now. Not sure who is this appealing to. Eventually when you run out of anime, it requires one to get creative and now you single-handedly extinguished this choice. It would've been way better to implement search filter based on top reviews.
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