| Like reducing the workload,paying appropriate wages,etc. Do they value Discipline over their own life?That's really admirable but they shouldn't pressurize themselves like that. Thoughts? --------- Mod Note: Thread Locked for not adhering to Anime Discussion Rule 5. Please refrain from posting thread topics which extend beyond the discussion of anime/manga as an entertainment medium to highly-debated social and/or moral issues. This includes but is not limited to: pedophilia, gender/racial equality, sexual orientation, etc. This thread was not locked in time, but nonetheless, the topic was centered around a social/economic/moral issue that extends much farther than anime itself. In accordance with the board specific rules please remember to follow the Site Guidelines as well to further prevent violations. |
dipItFooMay 15, 2021 9:09 PM
 Scordolo's Recent Reviews To your eternity Vanitas no Karte |
| Probably because they risk getting fired and animation is usually the only thing they know how to do, why else would they subject themselves to such harsh work environments outside of it being their passion? |
Dozka said: Probably because they risk getting fired and animation is usually the only thing they know how to do, why else would they subject themselves to such harsh work environments outside of it being their passion? Whatever happened to workers unions? |
rebellion1310 said: Dozka said: Probably because they risk getting fired and animation is usually the only thing they know how to do, why else would they subject themselves to such harsh work environments outside of it being their passion? Whatever happened to workers unions? No idea why you're asking me, but it probably works completely differently in Japan compared to the west. |
| Do worker unions supports freelance animators? |
shozaroApr 28, 2021 6:57 AM
| I still can't help but adore how so many on this board think that complaining about the working conditions of animators in Japan is the epitome of social consciousness You're not a weeb, you don't worship Japan, you're aware of how poorly the animators are treated and you're going to barrage people with as much like shouting into an online void about it will actually amount to anything! That'll show those people who made fun of your anime pfp on Twitter that you're not like the stereotype of a weeb! Good job! But yeah, I doubt OP or most people who hammer this so often actually give a shit. It always comes across as ridiculously self-serving to me. |
ManabanApr 28, 2021 6:59 AM
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| Now that I think about, I think they should. They can get support from the government or even in the populace. I think if they are brave enough, all animators, just band together, it would shake things up. I don't know to be honest, but they should go for it. |
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Manaban said: I still can't help but adore how so many on this board think that complaining about the working conditions of animators in Japan is the epitome of social consciousness You're not a weeb, you don't worship Japan, you're aware of how poorly the animators are treated and you're going to barrage people with as much like shouting into an online void about it will actually amount to anything! That'll show those people who made fun of your anime pfp on Twitter that you're not like the stereotype of a weeb! Good job! But yeah, I doubt OP or most people who hammer this so often actually give a shit. It always comes across as ridiculously self-serving to me. Is this supposed to be sarcasm?I'm just asking for thoughts. |
Scordolo's Recent Reviews To your eternity Vanitas no Karte |
| Ask Japan. It's not just animators. |
 Life is a despicable endurance race |
| I've always wondered about this too. I'm guessing it's because unionizing and protesting is probably something that's very heavily frowned upon. After all, if people start protesting, that means there are things to complain about and that kind of shatter's Japan's image doesn't ? I imagine if protesting became common it would probably lead to protests in other industries/fields (i.e. office jobs which are also apparently really toxic in Japan). |
Scordolo said: Manaban said: I still can't help but adore how so many on this board think that complaining about the working conditions of animators in Japan is the epitome of social consciousness You're not a weeb, you don't worship Japan, you're aware of how poorly the animators are treated and you're going to barrage people with as much like shouting into an online void about it will actually amount to anything! That'll show those people who made fun of your anime pfp on Twitter that you're not like the stereotype of a weeb! Good job! But yeah, I doubt OP or most people who hammer this so often actually give a shit. It always comes across as ridiculously self-serving to me. Is this supposed to be sarcasm?I'm just asking for thoughts. I'm fully supportive of someone who complains about a system they probably directly feed into and support, absolutely, especially when that system is likely to be on the other side of the world from them and their only experience with said system is probably what they've heard secondhand and online, no less. Why would this be sarcasm? You're a caring, socially conscious person who doesn't worship Japan and is not like other weebs at all. Grats! Now I just need to sit back and watch as all of our resident academics on Japanese society and culture come in and say stuff like in the post above me so I can hopefully glean some knowledge from this truly enlightening, invigorating, and certainly not derivative and pointless conversation. |
ManabanApr 28, 2021 7:08 AM
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Nubiellee said: Ask Japan. It's not just animators. Is it the same problem for non animators too?I only heard that only animators are suffering from Overwork and underpaid. |
Scordolo's Recent Reviews To your eternity Vanitas no Karte |
| If a system is broken, no time should be wasted in fixing it. |
| Japan is a pretty right wing country as a whole so maybe unionizing and stuff like that is discouraged? Only 14% of the Japanese workforce is unionized, compared to 26% in the more liberal UK and 70% in Sweden |
rebellion1310 said: If a system is broken, no time should be wasted in fixing it. Fuck yeah! I nominate this guy for our leader in fixing this problem. I've never heard a more passionate and concerned plea in my life. I'm hype. We can do it, gang! We can save the animators! |
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munchiedonut said: Japan is a pretty right wing country as a whole so maybe unionizing and stuff like that is discouraged? Only 14% of the Japanese workforce are unionized, compared to 26% in the more liberal UK and 70% in Sweden That's a pretty interesting fact.Thx for sharing. |
Scordolo's Recent Reviews To your eternity Vanitas no Karte |
| I would say im sensing a lot of projection from @Manaban but thats not the case anymore with political youtubers acting like japan is based and infecting the community with that mindset. Definitely feels like the minority still with these types of people but the number is quickly rising. |
Dozka said: I would say im sensing a lot of projection from @Manaban but thats not the case anymore with political youtubers acting like japan is based and infecting the community with that mindset. Definitely feels like the minority still with these types of people but the number is quickly rising. You're definitely right. I'm not tired of watching this conversation being used for vapid, metaphorical autofellatio for the past 6 years by people who might as well get "I don't really give a shit" tattooed on their foreheads. It's also not because it's heavily premised on cultural stereotypes being presented as knowledgeable takes on why things are this way, either. All along, I just thought Japan was based and redpilled. Thank you for opening my eyes. |
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| Animators work in that field because they like it. Anime studios have been complaining for years that they can't find enough animators to work on their projects, and one of the big reasons for a lack of animators is because of the low wages. The animators who have stuck around are the ones who are fine with making that little of money. You'd think the lack of animators could be solved with a simple raising of wages, but even with as low as the wages are now the profit margins on anime are pretty low. If they paid animators fairly then most anime would lose money, and that isn't a sustainable business model, although not paying people fairly for their work also isn't sustainable in the long run. Clearly something in the anime industry needs to be changed so that animators can make a fair wage, but just increasing it isn't the way to do it. Even the producer of the anime only makes $70k a year. If he evenly split up his wage with his animators then none of them would be making much of anything. Anime is not an industry that makes money and we should be happy that we even get as many anime as we do considering how unsustainable it is. I know some people would be quick to blame piracy for how little money anime gets, and that is part of the problem, but there's a lot of other problems at hand leading to this. The West contributes barely anything to the anime industry meanwhile in Japan pachinko machines are one of the main revenue streams for anime. Maybe if the West adopted pachinko parlours then animators would be making decent money. |
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Manaban said: Dozka said: I would say im sensing a lot of projection from @Manaban but thats not the case anymore with political youtubers acting like japan is based and infecting the community with that mindset. Definitely feels like the minority still with these types of people but the number is quickly rising. You're definitely right. I'm not tired of this conversation being used for vapid, metaphorical autofellatio. It's not because it's heavily premised on cultural stereotypes being presented as knowledgeable takes on why things are this way, either. All along, I just thought Japan was based and redpilled. Thank you for opening my eyes. Slow down there buckeroo, I never said you had that mindset at all, re-read my post if you would please. |
Dozka said: Manaban said: You're definitely right. I'm not tired of this conversation being used for vapid, metaphorical autofellatio. It's not because it's heavily premised on cultural stereotypes being presented as knowledgeable takes on why things are this way, either. All along, I just thought Japan was based and redpilled. Thank you for opening my eyes. Slow down there buckeroo, I never said you had that mindset at all, re-read my post if you would please. Yeah, you're right. Because I'm heavily critical of how this conversation and topic tends to be conducted, it means I worship Japan. Japan based! It's perfect! I see no flaws in your impeccable accusation. You've seen right through me! I was just a stereotypical weeb all along! Banzai desu owo |
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Manaban said: Dozka said: Slow down there buckeroo, I never said you had that mindset at all, re-read my post if you would please. Yeah, you're right. Because I'm heavily critical of how this conversation and topic tends to be conducted, it means I worship Japan. Japan based! It's perfect! I see no flaws in your impeccable accusation. You've seen right through me! I was just a stereotypical weeb all along! Banzai desu owo Okay, let me spell it out for you, I never said y-o-u had that mindset, my post meant that I would originally say you are projecting but these days I get where your post was coming from due to the influence of political youtubers invading the community slowly. Instead of acting like a sarcastic know it all with every post, maybe think a bit before sending a reply, yeah? |
s4gge said: Manaban said: I still can't help but adore how so many on this board think that complaining about the working conditions of animators in Japan is the epitome of social consciousness You're not a weeb, you don't worship Japan, you're aware of how poorly the animators are treated and you're going to barrage people with as much like shouting into an online void about it will actually amount to anything! That'll show those people who made fun of your anime pfp on Twitter that you're not like the stereotype of a weeb! Good job! But yeah, I doubt OP or most people who hammer this so often actually give a shit. It always comes across as ridiculously self-serving to me. bro... are you okay? have you ever thought that people may be curious about stuff like this? Of course! I'm great! Don't let me get in the way. I'm not as well learned as any of you are on this matter, clearly. Dozka said: Manaban said: Yeah, you're right. Because I'm heavily critical of how this conversation and topic tends to be conducted, it means I worship Japan. Japan based! It's perfect! I see no flaws in your impeccable accusation. You've seen right through me! I was just a stereotypical weeb all along! Banzai desu owo Okay, let me spell it out for you, I never said y-o-u had that mindset, my post meant that I would originally say you are projecting but these days I get where your post was coming from due to the influence of political youtubers invading the community slowly. Instead of acting like a sarcastic know it all with every post, maybe think a bit before sending a reply, yeah? Mhm. You're right. Because I implied that this conversation tends to be carried out in an absurd and ignorant environment, I am goosestepping in line with YouTubers I don't watch since I haven't watched any Anituber for years now. I've been brainwashed. Thank you for opening my eyes and getting me to question the validity of a stance surrounding a topic. I was blind, but now I see! |
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Manaban said: s4gge said: bro... are you okay? have you ever thought that people may be curious about stuff like this? Of course! I'm great! Don't let me get in the way. I'm not as well learned as any of you are on this matter, clearly. Dozka said: Okay, let me spell it out for you, I never said y-o-u had that mindset, my post meant that I would originally say you are projecting but these days I get where your post was coming from due to the influence of political youtubers invading the community slowly. Instead of acting like a sarcastic know it all with every post, maybe think a bit before sending a reply, yeah? Mhm. You're right. Because I implied that this conversation tends to be carried out in an absurd and ignorant environment, I am goosestepping in line with YouTubers I don't watch since I haven't watched any Anituber for years now. I've been brainwashed. Thank you for opening my eyes and getting me to question the validity of a stance surrounding a topic. I was blind, but now I see! Good lord, how many times do I have to say I never meant you in the first place? |
Serial69 said: And its cuz also the fact that anime doesn't make lot of money. I thought the anime industry was hitting record highs in profits? o_O |
| Life is a despicable endurance race |
Dozka said: Manaban said: Of course! I'm great! Don't let me get in the way. I'm not as well learned as any of you are on this matter, clearly. Mhm. You're right. Because I implied that this conversation tends to be carried out in an absurd and ignorant environment, I am goosestepping in line with YouTubers I don't watch since I haven't watched any Anituber for years now. I've been brainwashed. Thank you for opening my eyes and getting me to question the validity of a stance surrounding a topic. I was blind, but now I see! Good lord, how many times do I have to say I never meant you in the first place? You're right! You never directly said it, so it can't be heavily implied by lines like: these days I get where your post was coming from due to the influence of political youtubers invading the community slowly Or: would say im sensing a lot of projection from @Manaban but thats not the case anymore with political youtubers acting like japan is based and infecting the community with that mindset. Definitely feels like the minority still with these types of people but the number is quickly rising Nuance doesn't matter. I was so stupid to think that! |
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| Thats not part of the Japanese mentality. For them, you are a cog in a machine, not a wrench in the works. When I lived there even the guy in the convenience store would offer you service with a smile and be content with his role, you wouldnt get that in the West. |
| Bleach is best consumed with your ears open and your eyes closed. |
| because they don't want and they aren't french. L'Equipe paper went on strike for two weeks because the bosses wanted to fire some of the workers. Basically, the newspaper did not appear (it only appeared in online format for subscribers I think). |
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| The job market functions on supply and demand. With an abundance of animators they are easier to replace so they are paid less even if the job is hell. |
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| isn't a lot of jobs(or just.. situations) in general like that? where you dont get paid as much as you should but you dont/havent/cant do anything abt it |
| by the way, how is it in other countries? is there labor exploitation of animators? or there isn't but there are fewer animated shows? Does that happen in the USA or how does it work there? Besides that, does it have something to do with the fact that there are so many seasonal anime? |
 a wise user of MAL said: Just to clarify, adaptations should absolutely stand on their own |
| This is the most stupid thing I've read today. You never fight back in work. Get it? Never. Animators aren't the only ones being overworked or having it rough. |
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Leoradiuju2004 said: by the way, how is it in other countries? is there labor exploitation of animators? or there isn't but there are fewer animated shows? Does that happen in the USA or how does it work there? Besides that, does it have something to do with the fact that there are so many seasonal anime? It definitely is bad typically VFX on movies in the USA. KatsutoSaki said: This is the most stupid thing I've read today. You never fight back in work. Get it? Never. Animators aren't the only ones being overworked or having it rough. I'm trying to parse whether you are defending the system as is or acknowledging that workers don't have the negotiating power to seize the rights they deserve. |
GreenPlatinumApr 28, 2021 9:09 AM
| This is just a theory but japans work culture is very stressful and depressing form the videos I saw on it. Like a 20 something year old women died because of all the stress she had from working. So I think it’s just a thing for most jobs in japan to be cautious and stressful so maybe people would rather work at a job they have a passion for even if it does stress them because they can’t really get anything better. I think maybe it has more to do with the working system as a whole than just animators. But that’s just my theory I only watched like only two videos on japans work/neet culture |
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| I would like you to buy manga, novels instead of reading it for free in mangadex or similar sites, I also want you to buy anime march and don't watch anime on pirated cites. This is the only way to help. Also see before purchasing which is the company you are purchasing from, there are fake products from scammer companies all around. |
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| Whew I made people mad Anyway, just completely skipping over all of the paragraphs people have written to me RiseUp_SS-kun said: I would like you to buy manga, novels instead of reading it for free in mangadex or similar sites, I also want you to buy anime march and don't watch anime on pirated cites. This is the only way to help. Also see before purchasing which is the company you are purchasing from, there are fake products from scammer companies all around. Look at this dude lmao BUY MANGA AND LIGHT NOVELS, DON'T PIRATE THEM, IT'LL HELP THE ANIMATORS yeah that's definitely how the money gets distributed, i see no problem with this |
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