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| You know you can criticize and like something at the same time right? Theorizing huh? I admit thats what I enjoy about When they cry the most. Figuring out connections to Ciconia is the most excitement that Gou has given me. Its a shame that phase 2 has been delayed. Honestly though other than that and Featherine look alike theres not much to discuss with Gou. We have the anwers. Now the only thing left is the ending. With how Gou has been Im kind of expecting something like this. Satoko - "Why did you abandon me Rika? Rika - "Sorry Satoko, I wont do it again Nipa!~" Featherine - "I had my fun, now see you in Phase 2 or something." Hopefully we'll get that twist in the end. Whatever it is. |
| They should create a new genre for this and call it Slice of Death. 🤣 |
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| HOLY PSSSST!!!, Damn Featherine talking meta. SPLAT scene got really bloody. Love the ED, looks like Satoko will get the same fate as Rika descending into darkness, while . They will really be best friends "forever" |
cronoSpirAFeb 25, 2021 8:12 PM
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| Yes I should praise Ryukishi for false advertising and claim that this is top tier writing because it is so different from what was promised. The rest are bullshit arguments for the sake of it just to prove that not liking Gou is wrong. All you do is leaps of faith, whether that's for your trust in the author or what others - wrongly - think. We are allowed to dislike it and point out the bullshit. If you think everything he writes is justified beause "muh theorymaking" and "he does it all the time", you and 4chan, discord and whatever other little group of wannabe Willards wanna pretend this is good writing because all of you can make up shit as you go, good for you honestly. I only care about the story making sense and being enjoyable. And with only 4 episodes being actually good that isnt the case. Used to be 3 arcs but then ep14 happened and they ended up pointless waste of time that could have been used for something new with the same clues he used in ep1-13. |
Gar_Logan said: Annoying part of this is that Satoko and Rika did have a huge breakthrough communicating back in Hinamizawa. All Satoko needed to do was ask to have another heart to heart with Rika at like...any time during their first year on campus. Yeah that was like a huge breakthrough! A really good one in fact! I guess maybe the problem is that perhaps they didn't have time to do that? Seems like the only down time could potentially be lunchtime, looks like the school might be strict on where you can be even after classes are over, so perhaps they couldn't really hang out. Wish there were more details that could explain why they didn't have this, only thing to go off with right now is Rika keeps choosing to hang out with those 3 girls before Satoko can ask, and Rika was taking the wrong approach to extending her hand out to Satoko (aka accidently making it a public spectacle, which probably leads into Satoko's thought that Rika is just pitying her). |
| Satoko didn't get brainwashed, but she sure snapped badly. Oh well, good luck redeeming her character. Ciconia reference was weird, what does that even supposed to mean at this point? Just random fanservice, I hope. And whoever made the snap thing should get fired or something. Dear God, that was cringe. The ED visuals are nice, at least. Just a little more and I could forget Gou even existed. |
Drakel_3577 said: would you remember all about the studies from several years ago? most people forget almost everything they studied a few months later. Satoko's stay at st. Lucia was horrible, do you think she would even want to remember any of it? (sorry if bad english) All the more reason to try to change it by making compromises. But no she expected Rika to do al that; not to make new friends, not to act ladylike, not to "talk down on her" in public while Satoko acts like a bitch to everyone. |
Chargecoulomb said: I do know how to use Onscripter / Ponscripter. if anybody wants to write a better Gou I'll be up to help you put it in the VN. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0yXPvbuib4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvlgWGbuieY like this? |
am4xFeb 25, 2021 8:52 PM
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Danpmss said: ssjokg said: 1-3 Semantics. Sorry but playing with words doesn't change anything. This isnt a gameboard. The fact that he appeared so hapoy he trolled everyone on the interview after ep2 shows that he intentionally mislead everyone. 4 The other author said the same for ALL of his adaptations. All of them had huge differences in the end.Others in small parts others in important shit thay should have been in the series. 5 Not talking about Rika. Satoko is clearly the MC of Gou, just like Rika was the hidden MC in the OG. Also differently doesn't mean inconsistent. Satoko going psycho isn't my issue. The execution is. 6 Ooishi not being injected was the total opposite of what people theorized. And who said I dislike the slice of life moments? 1 to 3- What are you on about, are you even an Umineko reader?? The entire period of Umineko's release was a game between us the readers and him, and he does this in social media, interviews and blogs even before that, where have you been? There wasn't a single big announcement or interview from him that didn't play with the fan's speculations in some way troll-y way ever since the Higurashi times (and before that he had his blog posts of which you can find some translations for in here) Your argument is a non-argument. You dislike that he trolled everyone when that's exactly what he always does and is massively famous for in Japan, even mainstream-wise. That doesn't say shit, his works are a real life gameboard with the readers and he declared that too many times to count. It surprises me you got all the way to the end of Umineko without realizing that and are now complaining about it LMAO Old fans also started their following getting trolled, surprise surprise, I wonder why you even liked Umineko if that's your stance. From a newcomer perspective, what we got in Gou ever since episode 2 isn't exactly much different from how he did things way back, specially in Umineko, you should be there to see the chaos from both newcomers who skipped higu and old timers who had it all in mind only to get trolled just as much, much like what is happening in here. And Umineko despite all that aged well in an overview. If you didn't know shit about what I just said and didn't have problems with Umineko, you would definitely not have not knowing about this sort of troll moves in Gou like that interview. Now what, do you hate Umineko and how it was marketed and presented "outside a gameboard"? 4- Strawman fallacy bullshit, you sound like the whiny fans from Square Enix that get shat on for easy money because the story is convoluted for the sake of selling DLC and side games, and proceed to say anyone that does something remotely similar is the same (when this kind of thing has been happening for decades in different fashion on end even when it comes to comic book series and even movies). Ryukishi never even went corporate and stays to this day as a very modest doujin circle with some good contacts from people in the industry that have a lot of respect for him, thus why so many manga and novelizations around for his works, not to mention side projects. And Higurashi Gou is a long time coming anime that likely didn't even have much resources for production if you really think this is about the money. The gacha game is more about that, and at least has a lot of effort put on it, likely how they are getting the most money for this adaptation costs other than streaming, thanks to some few tie-in collectibles and same artist CGs/cards. 5 Not talking about Rika. Satoko is clearly the MC of Gou, just like Rika was the hidden MC in the OG. Also differently doesn't mean inconsistent. Satoko going psycho isn't my issue. The execution is. Doesn't matter who you are talking about my point was in justifying the differences consistently. And you had shit for a counterargument other than "who cares, it's different" and I guess "the execution is bad", which you really didn't expand upon at all, do go in further detail considering what I just wrote about how it was executed in the comment before. I would love to discuss about it. It seems nobody in here ever challenged your "know-it-all" arguments properly in here, so I'll do it myself. 6 That was ALSO theorized upon, but the most prominent theory was the one you mentioned, I'll give you that. And who said I dislike the slice of life moments? You sure seems to be implying as much though? Important characters are now here to just to fill time. That's essentially the entirety of the SoL scenes in Higurashi ever since Onikakushi-hen. All of them are mostly regarding fun moments with friends, which are important characters, that usually amount to nothing at all other than that, a fun comedic break with some ship teasing and fanservice. Sometimes coupled with further characterization like the ones in Tatarigoroshi/Tataridamashi, and that also applies to the ones we got in Gou lately which you seem to dislike. Where exactly did my deduction go wrong there, if you may? The fanbase has been split on Gou ever since it came out. The 4Chan Boards, Discord, Animesuki and of course MAL. Jk Mal is pretty balanced in terms of people who like an dislike the show. A notable portion of the veteran WTC fans dont have much enthusiasm towards Gou. Regardless of whether they like Gou or not, most agree that it is not the standard of storytelling that we expect from WTC. It makes sense for Rika and Satoko to change with time, but it does not make sense for them to act like idiots. Heck it is irrefutable that Rikas character development from Kai has been thrown to the side, she's acting like an actual 10 year old, not a 100 year old mellowed out woman. The whydunnit is a mess, the justification is on the level of a parody. How would Will put it? "This story has no heart." By Heart I mean that the writing who laid down the story lacked understanding of its core. Higurashi was never about gore, curses, or wanton twists. Higurashi was about fighting against fate for a happy future. Gou gets the meaning of that statement right, but uses Satoko to twist it towards disaster. Takano did all she did and was still redeemable. Even Erika from Umineko has a charm that makes watching her do her thing fun, in the end I could see both of them getting back with the Main cast. Takano used her uncles research as a crutch and suffered from HS and childhood trauma. Erika wanted to please her master and become recognised as a witch on her merit. Their actions can be justified. What's Satoko's excuse? she doesn't really have one. Which is exactly why many of us expected her to go L5. If you want to discuss thing go ahead. Just keep in mind that you can like something and give criticism at the same time. |
| Damn this was a great episode, and now I'm all on board of a second season being announced at Anime Japan at the end of March. No way it's gonna be resolved in just a couple episods, and Higu's stage presence at Anime Japan is after episode 24 airs. Hmmmmmm |
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am4x said: Chargecoulomb said: I do know how to use Onscripter / Ponscripter. if anybody wants to write a better Gou I'll be up to help you put it in the VN. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0yXPvbuib4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvlgWGbuieY like this? Yup. Although with the new 07th mod form of Ponscripter. I can probably make something 720p, Widescreen. It would be better to base it on the re released Higurashi Ponscripter Demo in my opinion instead of Umineko. Onscripter-en is a decent engine, but it's Monospace Fonts don't look that good. I wonder why he's using the 4:3 aspect ratio? He can easily hex edit Onscripters or rebuild it to work in 720p. Fonts look a magnitude better in Ponscripter, and we can do more or less the same thing with the Alchemist assets for Featherine and so on... We can also use the Sui backgrounds which are widescreen an in better quality. I They seem to be using the PS2 sprite and Background rips. |
ChargecoulombFeb 25, 2021 9:11 PM
Chargecoulomb said: The fanbase has been split on Gou ever since it came out. The 4Chan Boards, Discord, Animesuki and of course MAL. Jk Mal is pretty balanced in terms of people who like an dislike the show. A notable portion of the veteran WTC fans dont have much enthusiasm towards Gou. I am not sure if "split" is the best wording though. A lot of vocal users have gripes about the show (me included), but over 80 percent of users every week vote like or love. |
Gar_Logan said: Chargecoulomb said: The fanbase has been split on Gou ever since it came out. The 4Chan Boards, Discord, Animesuki and of course MAL. Jk Mal is pretty balanced in terms of people who like an dislike the show. A notable portion of the veteran WTC fans dont have much enthusiasm towards Gou. I am not sure if "split" is the best wording though. A lot of vocal users have gripes about the show (me included), but over 80 percent of users every week vote like or love. And according to most posts, which I assume are from those that like or love it, are here for what Higurashi is infamous for , not what makes it good. Same goes for all anime. It is very rare to find episodes on popular shows that the majority finds to be 3/5 and below. If 80% of votes in every ep are love or like but avg score is at 7 and dropping more then what does that mean? As for me I dont even vote most of the time. |
Gar_Logan said: I am not sure if "split" is the best wording though. A lot of vocal users have gripes about the show (me included), but over 80 percent of users every week vote like or love. Of course. Even though I have problems and often criticize Gou I rate most EPs at 4, which I guess means I like Gou. Since I stay up till 3 a.m. to watch it when it comes out on Friday. I admit spilt is not the fitting word. Not sure what to use there instead. From what I've seen around 75 percent like the show and around 25 Percent dislike it. The recent episodes have actually been a better than the rest in my opinion. Not exactly saying much, but the only thing concerning me is the ending. |
Jin_uzuki said: Danpmss said: Ciconia cannot happen before Higurashi or Umineko, since it's after WW3 (in which the world almost ended and completely changed, while most of Higurashi and Umineko surround on plot points regarding WW2 just some decades before them. Therefore, it's absolute that this is a retroactive interaction that happen because the Kakeraverse . Unless you have any further counterarguments that is...? lol they are completely different settings in the same extended universes. Or do you think WW3 is going to happen after Higurashi and Umineko or something? WW3 doesn't matter to Higurashi setting just like Higurashi doesn't matter to Umineko. Bernkastel and Lambdadelta are called voyagers for a reason, they literally traveler from story to story. lol even if they are completely different settings, that wouldn't change the fact that it came after WW3, and that there's a gap of a hundred years that won't fit no matter how you try to put it as before the events of Higurashi and Umineko considering when WW2 happened. Your whole logic is jossed, it would be a non-linear interaction between Featherine talking to her after Vier no matter how you work it out to be. You have zero arguments and your couldn't even prove your point right despite the sass. The Kakeraverse was implied to be non-linear ever since Higurashi, but never confirmed, as there seemed to always be some sort of predetermined linearity to it, especially in Umineko, thus why nothing could really save the Ushiromiya from their demise. That is, if you are taking things at face value, when it comes to what sort of concrete things are happening in the Prime reality of the fiction (that isn't our real world, but theirs). Umineko is, after all, a metafiction, and Higurashi was implied to be but a book in that fiction, whether based on reality or not. This is the first time we actively see a character from a different work interact with someone from another time very further in the future and met with someone who reminded her of said name-dropped fellow and a whole bunch of that work's related elements, thus confirming said being can interact and influence retroactively in the reality of that story as we know, if situated in the real world in-fiction, and not as a book. I for one don't believe the Higurashi book is exclusively just that, but something based on real life-events, and even if that wasn't the case, it would still be regarding an interaction with something from at least 100+ years old, which would mean non-linearity of that dimension even then. So I ask again, where's your counterargument against that claim? WW3 on itself not being relevant to their settings on itself is irrelevant when it the settings in Ciconia make so it always come after those realities even if you consider the dates and events are basically the same (and how they specifically state 21th century was when it happened following decades after the Cold War period, and after a long period of peace which was broken after a great depression near the end of that century, thus closing any other possibility of this not being a retroactive non-linear interaction even when it comes to parallel universes and/or timelines, which is how Fragments are described as in the first place). No chance of MuvLuv-like things like "ah, in this timeline that WW didn't happen/happened before/later on" having happened. The closest we got to that sort implication before this was Hanyuu giving the knowledge and strength of another kakera's Akasaka (Himatsubushi's) from the future to the one in Matsuribayashi in the story's present time, and that was a clearly non-linear thing as well, despite still holding on the same logic as the time loop information time-travelling as the other examples we got. Not literally a dimensional being such as Featherine having interacted "some time before" with a future character such as Vier and other Ciconia elements before talking to Satoko directly about them. Not even Featherine in Umineko ever had that sort of interaction with Ange nor with anyone, and the latter's astral travel with Bernkastel turn out to not really have happened, since it her jumping off the building was a fantasy scene (as per reveal of EP8, which is contradicted by manga's EP8 through a retcon of her entire character arc anyway, so they are different products). So yeah, considering the further information, the point stands clear. I don't think you can't even go past Akasaka's plot point when it comes to that, that should be evidence enough despite myself not finding it to be enough evidence such as Gou's (considering Himatsubushi's fragment was visited before and that was the reason the kakera was there in the connecting fragments section in the first place). >that said, the only place I frequent in which I see concentrated hate for Gou is in here, This is false. Gou gets a lot of concentrate hate everywhere. It's a very divisive product. I see a lot of R07 fans wishing it didn't exist in a lot of places. This is the only place where I see concentrated hate all in all, to the point of interfering with the discussions, just look at the previous eps' backlog for one. No matter how toxic the discussions may get in there isn't enough so that it gets concentrated hate like in here, even the aforementioned great amount hate 07th Expansion works as a whole get in 4chan, especially anything after Umineko such as Gou, they at least get more theorycrafting done and that was my point. Even a cesspool like 4chan's /a/ in particular, albeit /jp/ isn't too behind even in the now existing 07th General, you have a far more productive discussion overall, and they are not regulated such as the people in here are, which could only go as far as to call you a "stupid motherfucker" for disagreeing or something while trying to halt attempts of "redeeming this shitshow". But contrary to 4chan, here the talk DOES get disrupted and that's about it. The same goes to Discord, Twitter, Reddit, you name it, any other place on the internet is having a better try at speculating about Gou than in here, and you won't find much because the discussions always come to a halt because of shitty attitudes such as this and then victimizing yourself such as "it was the fanboys who attacked me first for not liking what this crap they like", which is just a rise and repeat exercise in flame bait culture and why shounen series' fandoms are so fucking annoying overall to discuss with. Now you are straight up making no sense given you praise 4chan were people are twice as rude and have no problem shitting on other people for liking Gou. You literally get called an idiot or R07 dicksucker or something all the time. Literally one of the threads on /a/ right now is " I am done with Higurashi." and the first answer is " Secondaries get the rope." That and the fact this is clearly the most unproductive place for theorycrafting I've seen for Higurashi Gou that I personally frequent, Honestly who gives a shit? There are like 20 people posting on mal and they mostly post their impressions about the latest episode. Is that bad or something? Same point as above, and I never "praised" 4chan and never will, my "even 4chan" should have been enough evidence of that. The difference is that the people 10x as rude actually can't do much in there other than shitpost and wait, and the rest ignore it all together since it's just another anon idiot talking shit, while in here people getting shutdown and discussing between themselves are users, and it thus become an exhausting matter or having the last word to save face, thus why the disruption is so fucking effective and that's why even 4chan gets more shit done and brainstorm working than in here overall, even in the midst of all the shit it has. As for the other places I frequent, they all had much more variety of ideas and theories to work with despite the occasional flamebait and rantings from people, which didn't disrupt much and even made for a richer argument regarding Gou's writing overall. That goes in a lesser note for Twitter due to character limits but especially Discord (servers like Hinamizawa and 07th Mod). Heck, there's a known old timer in there who is basically a hater that only liked Umineko alone for its concepts, and he is active, and very critical of anything Ryukishi related. But guess what, not toxic concentrated hate, such as in concentrated where you don't feel like arguing, and that's what the problem in here is, especially since a huge amount of users are anime-onlies that can't really argue much when it comes to people with knowledge of the WTC series as a whole such as myself and most active people elsewhere (except maybe Reddit? Even twitter has a majority of familiarized old fans in the hashtags) AND OF COURSE THIS IS BAD, THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT OF WTC AS A SERIES LOL The author himself said that so many fucking times too, really? especially because of the amount of anime-onlies from the get-go. Even 4chan with all the hate it gives 07th Expansion as a whole and the sexual non-stop shitposting does a better job as a community speculating than in here. Same with Twitter (despite the word limit) and same with Discord. Need more discussions about Satoko's cunny and Keiichi/Rena or Mion/Keiichi. Or Italianon quality posts??? Not the point, even because the point is that they can't disrupt the flow of theorycrafting much other than spamming as much as they can to try pissing people off, and that many times result in bans and they stop trying hard for a day or two. In here you don't have near as much activity due to the platform not being as fast paced as an image board. They have quite many advantages and disadvantages in that regard, it depends of how many shitposters are there just to be assholes, and their presence can't do much other than trigger an idiot or two for real. And how ironic that one of Italianon's early theories about Satoko being a looper turned out to be true with good evidence. Should go to show you that even shitposters in there are actually using their brains to see through stuff like that, and that's with all the flack he memetically gets for that stupid ass Erika theory thing. Where the heck did I ever said people who dislike Gou just as much didn't exist in them, do quote me. Your post is "that said, the only place I frequent in which I see concentrated hate for Gou is in here," which makes no sense because on /a/ for every person writing OMG DRAGONKNIGHT I KNEEL it's full of people calling out Gou character assassination, shitting on the original and generally insulting other people. But also who gives a shit? What's the argument even? The opinions of here isn't inherently bad or worse than other places (Except Reddit because it's an echo chamber). A lot of people here don't like Gou. Uuuuuh, so what? Is that even true? Because I see a lot of people also defending it. And that statement alone should have saved me from writing most things I just did, as you proved my point. The issue never was about people disliking Gou and criticizing it as they please, but about concentrated hate in these forums. Having hate is fine, everything is open to criticism, even nitpicks. But I've seen a lot of name calling and "know-it-all" attitudes towards even anime-onlies in here trying to get an idea out and getting shutdown for people so sure of themselves this is shit and everyone who disagrees is an idiot, to the point of most discussions being surrounding that topic alone and not the actual content. The best will get in here are individual comments saying they like the episode but without going in much detail about stuff, and people who will make comments exclusively to take a piss at them such as "wow, look at this shitshow, it took them just show *certain character* for people to suddenly think it's good, bunch sheep, this means nothing and you are a fool for even having expectations still lul" and alike, this ever since episode 1-13, but for a different reason, when people were judging it as a shitty alternative remake instead and not even attempting to really look in between the lines of what could be going on. Want another evidence? Despite the number of voters being vast majority most of the time in the positive ratings, most comments and discussions are posted by the vocal minority to either attack those who are enjoying and the show itself -though not quoting them since their comments aren't attempts to discussion- or quotting people who either quote them and disagree with their points, or to shut down someone who formulated their own take, usually anime-only, as per majority in this site. I made this post long ago with how mad I was on people going as far as to straight spoil both Higurashi and Umineko content early on just because they could and how badly they were sabotaging theorycrafting in here. This was even before the concentrated hate I'm speaking of happened, after it went off "remake" territory, and also ironically, was about people defending Gou's unreliable perspectives in the first place. Some of which are now just as toxic attacking people in here for liking it because yes. So yeah, I stand with my opinion. If you don't share of it good for you, I still think this became the worst place to discuss about Higu Gou overall. Also, at least reddit has separations for anime-onlies and old timers, that brings some sort of balance to that regard. >mfw Reddit is better than MAL discussions when it comes to this series "hurdur greentext outside 4chan cringe", but whatever, it's true |
DanpmssFeb 25, 2021 10:18 PM
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| The Sea of Fragments is a part of the wider meta world. Of course things such as linear space and time are already shown not to exist in Umineko. WW3 happening doesn't necessarily mean that is happens in the future in regards to the meta world. Different fragments are at different points in time. Example. In one fragment it's 1983, while the other is at 2007. To a voyager witch who would observe the Fragments they would be occurring at the same time. The meta world is built on layers, when each of these layers become non linear the meta world itself becomes infnitely complex. Trianthology is.my favourite example of this. Two Fragments takes place in worlds similar to the present. However the third takes place in the future, in the middle of a conflict. to Alice and Usagi, the events transpire at same time. |
ChargecoulombFeb 25, 2021 9:58 PM
| Great episode! I don't know what the Featherine look alike was saying at the beginning at all lmao, though I heard it's like some Ciconia stuff that I won't try to find out more about lmao. She definitely referred to Rika as a cat though which is pretty cool. Rika and Satoko talking was really fucking great, that's what they needed but at the end of the day Satoko is an unstable and jealous girl that didn't accept Rika's help when she offered it. Rika could have tried to pursue Satoko more aggressively, but Satoko is definitely the one most at fault here, kind of wished she just declined Rika's offer the second time around. I think to only way to justify Satoko's actions now is if she has the hinamizawa syndrome, though I don't know if that's still possible since they did say that it's gradually disappearing from the villagers but who knows. The double chandelier whammy was pretty great though lmao, and the ED with visuals is a banger. Featherine look alike in the OP smiling was creepy as fuck. Looking forward to the next episode. |
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sKyBlazer08 said: I think to only way to justify Satoko's actions now is if she has the hinamizawa syndrome, though I don't know if that's still possible since they did say that it's gradually disappearing from the villagers but who know. Rika saying what she did soothed the villagers. Like it did to Mion in Bus stop. It alleviated the symptoms of HS, I'm sure was Irie talking about the symptoms not the actual parasite. Speaking of HS. Where does the Parasite come from? I think that it could be the cure that Hanyuu administered to the village people to protect them from the disease that was going on. The say that Hinamaizawa has the specific conditions needed for it to live, but when someone leaves the village it doesn't kill the virus. As Natsumi's situation shows. |
ChargecoulombFeb 25, 2021 10:10 PM
Chargecoulomb said: The fanbase has been split on Gou ever since it came out. The 4Chan Boards, Discord, Animesuki and of course MAL. Jk Mal is pretty balanced in terms of people who like an dislike the show. A notable portion of the veteran WTC fans dont have much enthusiasm towards Gou. Not when it comes to active people effectively speculating and theorycrafting (the whole point of any WTC series of works, might I add) vs active people flame-baiting successfully and just attacking people who like it for no reason and basically halting productive discussions, which are nothing new especially when it comes to 07th Expansion. That's why it's surprising for me to have witnessed more productive activity even on 4chan of all places than in here, and that place is up to eleven in every regard, but I digress and already talked enough about that in the other replies, feel free to check those out, otherwise I'll just quote myself next. Regardless of whether they like Gou or not, most agree that it is not the standard of storytelling that we expect from WTC. It makes sense for Rika and Satoko to change with time, but it does not make sense for them to act like idiots. Heck it is irrefutable that Rikas character development from Kai has been thrown to the side, she's acting like an actual 10 year old, not a 100 year old mellowed out woman. The whydunnit is a mess, the justification is on the level of a parody. Quite for the contrary, repeating what I said above, I did find her character arc in this to be a consistent progression from where she stopped from either Kai or Rei (moreso from Rei). Allow me to copy and paste this passage of mine to demonstrate why: How would Will put it? "This story has no heart." By Heart I mean that the writing who laid down the story lacked understanding of its core. Higurashi was never about gore, curses, or wanton twists. Higurashi was about fighting against fate for a happy future. Gou gets the meaning of that statement right, but uses Satoko to twist it towards disaster. I mean, there's a lot of heart put into this production, to be honest, it's definitely a product of love more than anything, and attacks the viewer where it hurt the most, the aspect they thought they could trust within the storytelling, and that's sort of the point. Rika was betrayed by every single expectation she had from trusting her friends, because the entire tale is about her best friend getting disproportionate supernatural revenge on her for betraying her own trust in her. Still too early for me to completely rule out how outright psycho Satoko turned out to be in this (yeah, 21 eps in, and much like Umineko, it's still early until the very last moment, as we learned a bunch of relevant info in the final stretch). I'm all for criticism, and by no means Gou is perfect, but I will discuss my "why not"s in here much like I do elsewhere without being afraid of getting shut down getting called a "stupid motherfucker" for having positives and counterarguments to display as well lol. Takano did all she did and was still redeemable. Even Erika from Umineko has a charm that makes watching her do her thing fun, in the end I could see both of them getting back with the Main cast. Takano used her uncles research as a crutch and suffered from HS and childhood trauma. Erika wanted to please her master and become recognised as a witch on her merit. Their actions can be justified. What's Satoko's excuse? she doesn't really have one. Which is exactly why many of us expected her to go L5. Look, not really redeemable when it comes to Takano, she went for genocide and that included killing children with her own hands in a torturous, barbaric ritualistic manner. Anything Satoko did in here, Takano did much worse in the original series, even because all things Satoko did in here were basically things Takano also did, except she did much more than that to the entire village. Takano's backstory doesn't redeem her of anything, and the only reason why there weren't bigger consequences to her was because her plan failed before shit got disastrous in Matsuribayashi as well. Erika is a victim of circumstances as a human and a pawn for Bernkastel to play with in the gameboard representing her. Even the abuse she gets from her is basically Bern complaining about her own incompetence as the player. Human Erika also has her problems disconsidered from her obeying Bern, as shown in EP6, which is why she is sympathetic and redeemable despite her own fuckeries. If you want to discuss thing go ahead. Just keep in mind that you can like something and give criticism at the same time. I don't mind if it's arguments such as what we just talked about. I'm not trying to shut anyone down, just prevent that from happening as is, for a long while since I decided to come back here and see how things are coming together with the latest reveals. Took myself to update people in a mega-thread about the interview since there wasn't much of a discussion regarding it after the last episode, for example (I waited for almost a whole day to see if people would do it, and nobody did). I do like that looking back in the other episode threads that there were some people at least sharing some of the bigger speculations in here that weren't discussed upon that much compared to outside of MAL. I like productive discussions, and it's getting harder to get some on MAL, especially for a property I'm fond of. If we were to talk about my criticisms, it would be more regarding how well established this work was so far, as a standalone, which would be okay at best after the rewatch I did last week (most of the essential plot points are indeed there, but their presentation is kind of messy). The execution on itself depends on how they will pull the final episodes, I want to see if the way they did things as was properly justified, and for a mystery work such as this, only the foreshadowing worked out well for those actually attempting to solve it. |
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| We can agree on it then. Of course regardless of how I feel about Gou. Discussing things relating to it is really enjoyable. The same with most of Ryuukishis works, there is a lot to sink your teeth into. It's similar in a few ways to other favourite series. Touhou. It's the extreme of this idea. In Touhou 99.9 percent of whats produced is by the fans based on their own interpretations of the series. Heck even for the fan anime. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fVRpNAxBiXI While attempting to stay as close to establish cannon as possible in its 15 episodes, 3 hours they make their own assumptions. The same is not true for WTC, but it's something similar. |
Chargecoulomb said: The Sea of Fragments is a part of the wider meta world. Of course things such as linear space and time are already shown not to exist in Umineko. WW3 happening doesn't necessarily mean that is happens in the future in regards to the meta world. Different fragments are at different points in time. Example. In one fragment it's 1983, while the other is at 2007. To a voyager witch who would observe the Fragments they would be occurring at the same time. The meta world is built on layers, when each of these layers become non linear the meta world itself becomes infnitely complex. Trianthology is.my favourite example of this. Two Fragments takes place in worlds similar to the present. However the third takes place in the future, in the middle of a conflict. to Alice and Usagi, the events transpire at same time. Not trying to be rude, but did you actually read TRT? You should know that those worlds were just Which is somewhat similar to how part of Satoko's characterization went in here, except more about herself and Rika distancing from her. But they are no time related things, nor it's part of WTC unless you consider that one Beatrice name drop and shout-outs. |
DanpmssFeb 25, 2021 10:34 PM
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| I don't even know how to feel about this tbh. I hate it but I love it at the same time. If they were going to continue the original Higurashi, I totally would have wanted it to be about Rika & Satoko growing older together, and here we are! But seems like they're both literally and figuratively going to kill my OTP. I love the fluff with Satoko and Rika. Their cozy chat in this episode was very nice. But, we all knew where it was going. But </3 Rika doing some MariMite larping as a yuri queen while pushing her original pseudo-wife to the side is heart breaking for Satoko. We saw Rika's heart break upon figuring Satoko out. I don't really see a good resolution. Featherine (or "other", damn it R09) give implications of Satoko being some kind of magical entity or some shit like that, which I don't like because I've been seeing her as human all this time. Are all the Higurashi characters just magical entities with erased memories? I'm not sure I like that idea. Satoko=Lambdadelta implications are now off the charts, though I never thought that would be true at all. I always liked Bern/Lambda too, but saw them as something different than Rika & Satoko. I think them both being actually the same would kind of ruins both for me, which is sad. It's not 100%, but getting there. :\ I almost feel like divorcing the fandom, ha... I was going to reread Umineko this year but now I'm gonna pass. I'll still stick around for the end of this mess though. Maybe I'll be able to sort through it once I see the end in three episodes. I just want Rika and Satoko to kiss and make up somehow, but I'm pretty sure it'll end with one of them killing the other with onigari-no-ryuuou. |
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Chargecoulomb said: We can agree on it then. Of course regardless of how I feel about Gou. Discussing things relating to it is really enjoyable. The same with most of Ryuukishis works, there is a lot to sink your teeth into. It's similar in a few ways to other favourite series. Touhou. It's the extreme of this idea. In Touhou 99.9 percent of whats produced is by the fans based on their own interpretations of the series. Heck even for the fan anime. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fVRpNAxBiXI While attempting to stay as close to establish cannon as possible in its 15 episodes, 3 hours they make their own assumptions. The same is not true for WTC, but it's something similar. Touhou is..... one HUGE rabbit hole I'm not attempting to go any further into tbh lol I don't know what's canon and what's fanon since there's ascended fanon now, and usually just stick to what the game provides as information (but I stay for the music and bullet-hell goodness)... and the hentai doujins, because they are at times kinda better than cano-- I think even Fate is less of a mess to localize yourself. WTC is actually intuitive enough as long as you read the VNs in order. |
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Danpmss said: Chargecoulomb said: The Sea of Fragments is a part of the wider meta world. Of course things such as linear space and time are already shown not to exist in Umineko. WW3 happening doesn't necessarily mean that is happens in the future in regards to the meta world. Different fragments are at different points in time. Example. In one fragment it's 1983, while the other is at 2007. To a voyager witch who would observe the Fragments they would be occurring at the same time. The meta world is built on layers, when each of these layers become non linear the meta world itself becomes infnitely complex. Trianthology is.my favourite example of this. Two Fragments takes place in worlds similar to the present. However the third takes place in the future, in the middle of a conflict. to Alice and Usagi, the events transpire at same time. Not trying to be rude, but did you actually read TRT? You should know that those worlds were just Which is somewhat similar to how part of Satoko's characterization went in here, except more about herself and Rika distancing from her. But they are no time related things, nor it's part of WTC unless you consider that one Beatrice name drop and shout-outs. Yup, although it was Machine translated to hell and back. The original Nscripter is a really annoying engine to work with 'Alice's truth' is it's own story, but the idea of interaction is the same. As a witch you interact with Fragments. Each fragment is it's own world. With its own changes and own sense of time. Not all Kakera experience time at the same rate, because as I'm sure you know. Hanyuu takes Rika from one Fragment to another. Which are at different points in time. It is not explicitly said but I assume that Hanyuu has no control over the flow of time. Just as she sees Tomoe's efforts after the disaster alongside Rika's. Also why is TRT not a part of WTC? It's definitely not explicit connected, but as you stated 'Alice's truth' it's fitting to consider it a part of WTC. Considering Alice's interaction with the world's. It is similar to Umineko, as you said. Alice's actions are represented as such metaphorically, just like how certain actions in Umineko as shown in a meta perspective. If you add Alice to Uminekos cosmology. Alice is a witch, and the worlds she interacts with are fragments that she travels between. |
ChargecoulombFeb 25, 2021 10:56 PM
chitchawa said: umineko implied lambda was behind the original conflict of higurashi so i don't think its 100% Yeah, like I said, not 100%, but getting there. I really hope it doesn't end up being the case tbh. I guess the explanation could be something like but idk. I don't like the idea, not attached to it at all. |
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chitchawa said: prepare4trouble said: I don't even know how to feel about this tbh. I hate it but I love it at the same time. If they were going to continue the original Higurashi, I totally would have wanted it to be about Rika & Satoko growing older together, and here we are! But seems like they're both literally and figuratively going to kill my OTP. I love the fluff with Satoko and Rika. Their cozy chat in this episode was very nice. But, we all knew where it was going. But </3 Rika doing some MariMite larping as a yuri queen while pushing her original pseudo-wife to the side is heart breaking for Satoko. We saw Rika's heart break upon figuring Satoko out. I don't really see a good resolution. Featherine (or "other", damn it R09) give implications of Satoko being some kind of magical entity or some shit like that, which I don't like because I've been seeing her as human all this time. Are all the Higurashi characters just magical entities with erased memories? I'm not sure I like that idea. Satoko=Lambdadelta implications are now off the charts, though I never thought that would be true at all. I always liked Bern/Lambda too, but saw them as something different than Rika & Satoko. I think them both being actually the same would kind of ruins both for me, which is sad. It's not 100%, but getting there. :\ I almost feel like divorcing the fandom, ha... I was going to reread Umineko this year but now I'm gonna pass. I'll still stick around for the end of this mess though. Maybe I'll be able to sort through it once I see the end in three episodes. I just want Rika and Satoko to kiss and make up somehow, but I'm pretty sure it'll end with one of them killing the other with onigari-no-ryuuou. umineko implied lambda was behind the original conflict of higurashi so i don't think its 100% Being more precise, Umineko Tsubasa implied that Lambda granted her bless to Takano in her Matsuribayashi flashback as the God she screamed towards when she escaped. With Gou latest reveal, I think it may be safe to finally say things in the kakeraverse are indeed non-linear and can be influenced vice versa depending of the high entity involved. Because of that, things such as "Lambda could be Satoko after Gou, albeit she granted powers to Takano way back then before Satoko was Lambda, because temporal retroactivity is now a thing" are acceptable kinds paradoxical circles of a sort. Were things to be linear, this should be impossible in every sort of way I guess, and even Umineko restrict itself on doing such things (could have something to do with Featherine, the almighty, having her memory device damaged, too). That goes to show how over-the-top powerful ascended existences in WTC are, I guess. |
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| Okay the new ending visual is 🔥🔥🔥. The episode was one of the best. Not just because of the ending but the story can go so many ways. |
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Chargecoulomb said: Danpmss said: Not trying to be rude, but did you actually read TRT? You should know that those worlds were just Which is somewhat similar to how part of Satoko's characterization went in here, except more about herself and Rika distancing from her. But they are no time related things, nor it's part of WTC unless you consider that one Beatrice name drop and shout-outs. Yup, although it was Machine translated to hell and back. The original Nscripter is a really annoying engine to work with 'Alice's truth' is it's own story, but the idea of interaction is the same. As a witch you interact with Fragments. Each fragment is it's own world. With its own changes and own sense of time. Not all Kakera experience time at the same rate, because as I'm sure you know. Hanyuu takes Rika from one Fragment to another. Which are at different points in time. It is not explicitly said but I assume that Hanyuu has no control over the flow of time. Just as she sees Tomoe's efforts after the disaster alongside Rika's. Also why is TRT not a part of WTC? It's definitely not explicit connected, but as you stated 'Alice's truth' it's fitting to consider it a part of WTC. That's not the point I was trying to make actually. Those kakeras, much like some of Umineko's are fabricated self-realities within that person's mind. In the Kakeraverse, Alice is a meta-being capable of creating those for herself, but much like Umineko established, fragments may have faces different to what they may see at first glance, fantastic representations of one's mundane life. Takes a person to break from that fabricated reality in the "Prime" (Umineko term coined as Rokkenjima Prime, the real world of the fiction named Umineko) to make it all go away, even by themselves. Any magical realism element in Umineko has a counterpart in Prime after all, which is why TRT could be in the same settings related or not (hell, it has the kakeraverse!). It's more because it isn't officially connected to WTC, much like RGD and Higanbana, that I say it isn't, since Ryukishi usually consider other 07th Expansion works to be disconnected from the WTC verse, and Higanbana in particular works in a pretty different fashion with the Yokai. All in all what I'm saying is that TRT is very linear in its kakeraverse structure. Gou is the first time we have such an obvious example. I've mentioned the Akasaka in Matsuri above btw, for my opinion on that. |
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| In theory Satoko *could* become Lambda and then grant Takano's wish. It's possible with what we know about the Meta World. Although I don't seem Ryuukishi pulling out something like that. It could cause complications when writing future stories. Akasakas situation can be the result of Hanyuu mixing Kakeras together to form Matsu's perfect Kakera, and Miotsukushi. If the Kakeras are just fiction then we get an issue. Higurashi - Kakeras are alternate worlds with their own changes and differences. Umineko - Interpretations of Prime. I know this might sound stupid but bear with me, If Kakera are alternate worlds then Prime should be different in each one. There shouldn't be a singular prime. Unless... Umineko takes place in a single fragment where there is only one Rokkkenjima prime explanation. Umineko all takes place in one singular fragment. Edit: nope. Lambda is helping Beato. As long as she's around it's possible for there to be one Rokkkenjima prime. kind of.... Lambda can achieve the same result every time, but small things would change. |
ChargecoulombFeb 25, 2021 11:57 PM
| DAMN, Satoko going absolute apeshit and I love it. She crazy crazy |
Chargecoulomb said: In theory Satoko *could* become Lambda and then grant Takano's wish. It's possible with what we know about the Meta World. Although I don't seem Ryuukishi pulling out something like that. It could cause complications when writing future stories. Akasakas situation can be the result of Hanyuu mixing Kakeras together to form Matsu's perfect Kakera, and Miotsukushi. Talking about that, I wonder if we can even consider the console arcs as canonical counterparts, considering just how much they alter several elements of the resolution for the original arcs. |
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| Regarding that. Ryuukishi does offer a solution. I heard about something called Yukiwatshi. I read it's scans sometimes ago It's from an anthology collected and published by Ryuukishi. Assuming that it's cannon. Then there are multiple Rikas in their own loops. Each fighting fate. In Yuki Watashi Hanyuu brings a Rika to Matsubiriyashi to show her what the future holds for her. (Gou) to motivate her to fight fate Edit here it is https://whentheycry.fandom.com/wiki/Kataribanashi-hen. They are fan stories but as long as Ryuukishi compiled it... It could be true? https://mangadex.org/title/2773/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-kataribanashi-hen Besides the console arcs straight tell you when something might not be cannon. This happened in Hanyuus expanded backstory. Sui does warn you that the extended backstory might not be cannon, and that it could be false. So...yeah? |
ChargecoulombFeb 26, 2021 12:01 AM
| Little changes to OP (face for devil's smile!) and new ED. Satoko finally lost it, I can understand that as Rika been really pain in the *** on this arc, I really hate her in this arc :( Satoko with her dream, and Rika with her own dream... Arc still continues, maybe till end? |
"A half moon, it has a dark half and a bright half, just like me…", Yuno Gasai |
| So RIka didn't learn anything from all these deaths. |
| why is it a "low blow" if Rika decides to study alone? And why it seems the plot has become Rika has to like staying with Satoko forever or be killed? Something is weird with this story. |
| Bloody well do you have to write a wall of text evey time? Danpmss said: lol even if they are completely different settings, that wouldn't change the fact that it came after WW3, and that there's a gap of a hundred years that won't fit no matter how you try to put it as before the events of Higurashi and Umineko considering when WW2 happened. You don't need to fit anything, they are different stories. For Bernkastel and Lambdadelta is like picking up a book. You can see this in Umineko and Higurashi themselves anyway. Bern can observer 1986 and 1988. Frederika can observe the summer of 1983 and Takano's.... 1950 I guess? Why would you think 100 years mean anything to these people? Your whole logic is jossed, lmao tvtropes. it would be a non-linear interaction between Featherine talking to her after Vier no matter how you work it out to be. You have zero arguments and your couldn't even prove your point right despite the sass. There is nothing non linear as far we know between Featherie and Vier, you keep thinking this because you don't fundamentally understand Umineko and Higurashi and Ciconia (And Hotarubi) are different stories that exist in the sea of fragments. The Kakeraverse was implied to be non-linear ever since Higurashi, but never confirmed, as there seemed to always be some sort of predetermined linearity to it, especially in Umineko, thus why nothing could really save the Ushiromiya from their demise. That is, if you are taking things at face value, when it comes to what sort of concrete things are happening in the Prime reality of the fiction (that isn't our real world, but theirs). Umineko is, after all, a metafiction, and Higurashi was implied to be but a book in that fiction, whether based on reality or not. The stories themselves are non linear because the witches can go back in time in the fragments. This is the first time we actively see a character from a different work interact with someone from another time very further in the future and met with someone who reminded her of said name-dropped fellow and a whole bunch of that work's related elements, thus confirming said being can interact and influence retroactively in the reality of that story as we know, if situated in the real world in-fiction, and not as a book. I for one don't believe the Higurashi book is exclusively just that, but something based on real life-events, and even if that wasn't the case, it would still be regarding an interaction with something from at least 100+ years old, which would mean non-linearity of that dimension even then. No we don't. It's not "the future". It's another story altogether. There is no difference between 100 years, 10 years and 1000 years for those meta character, they move to story from story, fragment to fragment. So I ask again, where's your counterargument against that claim? That you don't fundamentally understand they are different stories and write too much to say to little. WW3 on itself not being relevant to their settings on itself is irrelevant when it the settings in Ciconia make so it always come after those realities even if you consider the dates and events are basically the same (and how they specifically state 21th century was when it happened following decades after the Cold War period, and after a long period of peace which was broken after a great depression near the end of that century, thus closing any other possibility of this not being a retroactive non-linear interaction even when it comes to parallel universes and/or timelines, which is how Fragments are described as in the first place). No chance of MuvLuv-like things like "ah, in this timeline that WW didn't happen/happened before/later on" having happened. No they are not the same, there is no WW3 in Higurashi and Umineko, Higurashi is a setting with magic, magical parasites and loli who is a god. Rika literally descends from demons. Umineko is a murder mystery where the most magical thing is Ikuko and everything can be explained with cold logic. The closest we got to that sort implication before this was Hanyuu giving the knowledge and strength of another kakera's Akasaka (Himatsubushi's) from the future to the one in Matsuribayashi in the story's present time, and that was a clearly non-linear thing as well, despite still holding on the same logic as the time loop information time-travelling as the other examples we got. The story themselves were always non linear. Rika loops back (Well I guess Rika's experience is extremely linear though). Fragments are made from other fragments. Bernkastel can change Takano's fate. There is nothing new about it. Not literally a dimensional being such as Featherine having interacted "some time before" with a future character such as Vier and other Ciconia elements before talking to Satoko directly about them. Not even Featherine in Umineko ever had that sort of interaction with Ange nor with anyone, and the latter's astral travel with Bernkastel turn out to not really have happened, since it her jumping off the building was a fantasy scene (as per reveal of EP8, which is contradicted by manga's EP8 through a retcon of her entire character arc anyway, so they are different products). She doesn't have to be a future character. You problem is that you think in extremely linear terms where Cionia is a sequel to Higurashi and Umineko because it's after WW3, but it's another story in another world that in the vast sea of Kakera. So yeah, considering the further information, the point stands clear. I don't think you can't even go past Akasaka's plot point when it comes to that, that should be evidence enough despite myself not finding it to be enough evidence such as Gou's (considering Himatsubushi's fragment was visited before and that was the reason the kakera was there in the connecting fragments section in the first place). Akasaka stuff has nothing to do with this. Ultimately the other poster said it pretty well: Chargecoulomb said: The Sea of Fragments is a part of the wider meta world. Of course things such as linear space and time are already shown not to exist in Umineko. WW3 happening doesn't necessarily mean that is happens in the future in regards to the meta world. Different fragments are at different points in time. Example. In one fragment it's 1983, while the other is at 2007. To a voyager witch who would observe the Fragments they would be occurring at the same time. Not I'm not even *against* the idea of the meta-world being non-linear (It isn't, to some degrees). I'm saying Ciconia having WW3 has no bearing on its placement "in the timeline". This is the only place where I see concentrated hate all in all, to the point of interfering with the discussions, just look at the previous eps' backlog for one. What does it even mean? I see discussions here all the time. No matter how toxic the discussions may get in there isn't enough so that it gets concentrated hate like in here, even the aforementioned great amount hate 07th Expansion works as a whole get in 4chan, especially anything after Umineko such as Gou, they at least get more theorycrafting done and that was my point. I'd like to think there is more value to R07 stories than just theory crafting. Gou theory-crafting isn't even good, it was either "Satoko is the culprit theory" or "She's actually Lambda, Takano and Bern and 5 other people" which is not even relevant to Gou's story and literally uses other stories' screenshots to create a theory. Gou has so little to say most of the time people just spending discussing if Satoko is another person lmao. Do you people even like Higurashi? Because all I see is people interested in figuring if Lambdadelta is Satoko than if the story has actual *anything* to say about anything. Even a cesspool like 4chan's /a/ in particular, albeit /jp/ isn't too behind even in the now existing 07th General, you have a far more productive discussion overall, and they are not regulated such as the people in here are, which could only go as far as to call you a "stupid motherfucker" for disagreeing or something while trying to halt attempts of "redeeming this shitshow". But contrary to 4chan, here the talk DOES get disrupted and that's about it. The same goes to Discord, Twitter, Reddit, you name it, any other place on the internet is having a better try at speculating about Gou than in here, and you won't find much because the discussions always come to a halt because of shitty attitudes such as this and then victimizing yourself such as "it was the fanboys who attacked me first for not liking what this crap they like", which is just a rise and repeat exercise in flame bait culture and why shounen series' fandoms are so fucking annoying overall to discuss with. I discuss Gou here with people all the time. Not sure what you want. Maybe the problem is you. Not the point, even because the point is that they can't disrupt the flow of theorycrafting much other than spamming as much as they can to try pissing people off, and that many times result in bans and they stop trying hard for a day or two. In here you don't have near as much activity due to the platform not being as fast paced as an image board. They have quite many advantages and disadvantages in that regard, it depends of how many shitposters are there just to be assholes, and their presence can't do much other than trigger an idiot or two for real. Omg if people don't want to theory-craft they don't need to. Who cares. And how ironic that one of Italianon's early theories about Satoko being a looper turned out to be true with good evidence. Should go to show you that even shitposters in there are actually using their brains to see through stuff like that, and that's with all the flack he memetically gets for that stupid ass Erika theory thing. Pretty sure italianon thinks Rika and Ooishi are the culprits. Also "Satoko looper" was the most relevant theory because of the opening and Satoko's behaviors but most people didn't believe it because of the idea that Satoko would murder Rika and her friends over and over sounded stupid (Indeed it still is the anime has done a shit job at explaining her motive). Gou has so little to make people theorize it was either that or crazy ass theories based on connecting random lines from Higurashi and Umineko 10 years ago. AND OF COURSE THIS IS BAD, THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT OF WTC AS A SERIES LOL The author himself said that so many fucking times too, really? WTC is a sociopolitical series where R07 examines concepts such as redemption, karma, youth, gender, abuse and post WW2 nationalism not a fucking playground for theories with zero things to say so we can figure if Satoko is indeed Lambda or not. Also people consume media in different ways. Also Ciconia isn't even a challenge between reader and author anyway? Or hell other works like Higanbana if we want to include them. And that statement alone should have saved me from writing most things I just did, as you proved my point. The issue never was about people disliking Gou and criticizing it as they please, Yeah, doubt. At least we moved past the point where Gou staunch defenders just call people goats. People here (and other places) criticize Gou because Gou is bad.   Based. >mfw Reddit is better than MAL discussions when it comes to this series Yeah if you want to masturbate to how cool dragonkight is with zero criticism it is. But personally, if you think WTC is just about "theory-crating" and not a bunch of stories with messages and examination of sociopolitical issues we have nothing to discuss given our view of WTC is fundamentally incompatible. Theory crafting can be extremely fun, but it's not TEH point of the series and if you want to argue it is Gou theory crafting is awful anyway given how little you are given in term of material. |
Jin_uzukiFeb 26, 2021 4:07 AM
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Liddo-kun said: why is it a "low blow" if Rika decides to study alone? And why it seems the plot has become Rika has to like staying with Satoko forever or be killed? Something is weird with this story. Satoko has severe abandonment issues due to her mother "hating her" after what she did to her real father, her "killing" both of her parents in a manic episode of Hinamizawa Syndrome, her brother "running away" from the village to ultimately leave her completely alone when her uncle came back, and her feeling that he left because of her. With all this in mind, Rika is all but Satoko's everything. Not just a friend, but a person who Satoko has developed such a psychological dependency on due to Rika literally being the only person in the entire village who'd talk to Satoko and not treat her like the daughter of the devils who threatened the village. The one person who actually liked her and liked her so very much. Thanks to her existence in Satoko's life, she was her shelter, friend, and family which enabled Satoko to not face the mountain of issues she has and doesn't have to live with all the fear, self-loathing, and guilt. No wonder Satoko feels that it was a low blow of Rika that she, whether intentionally or not, was hanging all that over Satoko's head to force her to come with her. Rika was basically threatening to abandon Satoko. Remove Rika, and that mountain of mental illness comes bursting from that deep well. If it meant keeping Rika in her life, Satoko would go further than you'd expect. Satoko's relationship with Rika is somehow incredibly wholesome and incredibly toxic. |
astroprogsFeb 26, 2021 4:16 AM
| This show is great and the new ED was gorgeous. |
ssjokg said: People hating on Rika, saying she "betrayed" Satoko should start putting some distance between themselves and their friends. For he sake of their friends. Rika at worst, fails to understand that Satoko is a mentally unstable girl that cant live without her. Satoko on the other hand, intentionally tries to interfere and sabotage her "best friend's" efforts, puts all the blame on her and in the end kills her. No need to mention what she does later right? Satoko wants Rika to pay attention only to her, play and study only with her. This is nothing more than a toxic relationship at the worst possible magnitude. Well good for her, now they can loop forever till Rika decide to forgive her and be BFFS again. But does it matter?Rika only needs slightly disagree with Satoko and she will just be killed. This is bullshit. I was hoping that Satoko would be at least partially manipulated, even if it ruins Higurashi as a whole, but no. Satoko is just that bad. And FUCK magic fingers. Going to second everything here, I'm of the same opinion. Rika is not the one who is to be blamed for everything. She did try to reach out to Satoko, Satoko is the one rejecting Rika because Rika can't pay attention only to her anymore. Could Rika have tried harder? Maybe, but at least she did try. Satoko has to be a little more understanding of Rika's situation too. There is no way putting your friend through the pain and misery that they strived so hard to overcome all over again just because you feel they 'neglected' you is warranted in any way or any form. |
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| The episode was okay, maybe even good, honestly not sure how I feel about it. Gou is just weird. It started off okayish, got a little better, got worse and worse, got to episode 15 and turned into a parody of Higurashi, episode 16 was disturbing but not in a good way and episode 17-21 were pretty good. It's not a bad anime over all, but extremely weak for smth from R07 and Passione was definitley the wrong studio to adapt this. These discussion threads were so much fun before people decided to insult everyone who doesn't like Gou by the way. Y'all give me a headache. |
There's no possible way you can steal my heart    I want to drown in this sweet Melancholy |
Can't wait for Boring-hen arc part 5. Speaking of which, anime is ending, right? It will be the last arc? |
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niko_sb said: Can't wait for Boring-hen arc part 5. Speaking of which, anime is ending, right? It will be the last arc? Ryuukishi said so. There might be a episode 25 / Ova / Second season called Sotsu/Graduation. |
| The visuals for the second ending theme though, hot damn theyre beautiful.Sad that we get them before the show ends. |
"Get your tentacles off me or ill make calamari out of your manhood" -Mirai Nikki Dub |
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