New
      Jan 6, 2018 10:00 AM
#1
| Holyrood was granted more devolved powers in 2016, including more control over its own regional and local elections The Scottish government is considering allowing refugees and non-EU citizens to vote in local and Scottish parliament elections. Holyrood was granted new powers over taxation and the running of elections by Westminster in 2016 and the SNP minority government is keen to make major changes which set it apart from the rest of the UK. A public consultation launched last month suggested extending the voting franchise to “everyone legally resident in Scotland”. This would mean anyone granted asylum or a visa to live in Scotland would be able to vote in the country’s regional parliament and local council elections – including refugees and non-EU or non-Commonwealth citizens. The extension of the franchise would not include Westminster elections as these are still controlled by the Government in London. The Scottish Minister for Parliamentary Business, Joe FitzPatrick, said: “The Scottish Government is committed to ensuring access to democratic participation for all citizens. Scotland has led the way internationally by lowering the voting age to 16. “We now seek to extend the opportunity to vote to all who are legally resident in Scotland. It seems only fair that those who have the right to live here, whether from EU countries or elsewhere, have the right to vote.” He said there was a “view” that the current rules on suffrage did not reflect modern Scotland and “that linking citizenship with the right to vote is undemocratic”. “As citizens from a very wide range of countries come to live and work in Scotland, it can be considered discriminatory to deny the right to vote to resident immigrants who are neither EU nor Commonwealth citizens”, he added. The public consultation is due to close on 12 March. The Scottish Refugee Council hailed the move which they said would help many rebuild their lives in the country. The charity’s policy officer Graham O’Neill told The Scotsman: “There is no reason why refugees who are rebuilding their lives here should have fewer rights than the rest of us. “They are our colleagues and friends and contribute a huge amount to Scottish society. “I’m sure a lot of the people we work with would relish the chance to participate in elections and have a say on how to build a fairer society.” Scotland is perceived as more open to immigration and the arrival of refugees than the rest of the UK. The country, along with Northern Ireland, voted to Remain in the European Union during the referendum in 2016 and the SNP has repeatedly called for more powers on immigration and trade. In a speech in Edinburgh in September last year, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon called for greater flexibility for Scotland when it comes to regulating immigration. Speaking on the 20th anniversary of the devolution referendum which led to the establishing of the Scottish parliament, she called the Westminster plan to reduce net migration to the "tens of thousands" an "ideological" target which could have "devastating consequences for our economy and society". Instead, Scotland should offer “a welcoming hand and an open heart to those seeking a better life or wanting to make a contribution here”, she added. According to a 2014 report by the Office for National Statistics, Scotland’s population is expected to stagnate over the next 25 years if there is “low net migration” with the overall population projected to grow by just 3,500 people – or 0.07 per cent – every year. This means the country will increasingly suffer from a major labour shortage as it tries to prop up its economy, the NHS and its social services if it cannot bring in a migrant workforce. Source About time they give voting rights to refugees.There's no reason for them to be treated as second class citizens, for they have as any right as any human being born in the host country. More countries should follow suit (e.g Sweden), and let refugees be given voting powers. And according to National Statistics, the population of Scotland is stagnating, unless they take in more refugees. Brilliant solution indeed. | 
1337TasteJan 6, 2018 10:09 AM
Jan 6, 2018 10:11 AM
#2
| this obsession with posting refugee threads baffles me on one end of the pole we have people who are claiming “they’re all rapists/terrorists” and on the other end we have people like this who claim they’re all “saints” this really needs to stop | 
removed-userJan 6, 2018 10:16 AM
Jan 6, 2018 10:19 AM
#3
| nicethings said: this obsession with posting refugee threads baffles me on one end of the pole we have people who are claiming “they’re all rapists/terrorists” and on the other end we have people like this who claim they’re all “saints” I feel like people are definitely overblowing things here. I don’t live in Europe, but I can’t imagine it’s as buzzworthy as people are making it out to be. I don’t really have a strong opinion on refugees as long as they take strides to follow the laws of the land and don’t commit crimes. The ones who do commit crimes should be punished, regardless of their status. But I’m not a fearmongering banshee who thinks that they’re all going to rape and kill everyone either. I have posted about police brutality and transgender rights before as well. What's your point? I'm not the one blowing things out of proportion here. I even said at some point that there's always going to be bad apples in refugee population, but they are peaceful for the most part. You have people calling refugees "shitskins" here on MAL, and getting away with it. Surely you're not taking their side either? | 
Jan 6, 2018 10:25 AM
#4
| Would you look at that. The leftists aren't hiding the fact they only care about the votes of the immigrants and refugees. At least some countries are honest. | 
Jan 6, 2018 10:35 AM
#5
| And then people are wondering why that referendum about Scotland independence, wasn't successful. | 
Jan 6, 2018 10:50 AM
#6
| So... is the ultimate goal of these threads to trigger as many alt-rights as possible and make their views even more radical? | 
Jan 6, 2018 10:54 AM
#7
| 149597871 said: So... is the ultimate goal of these threads to trigger as many alt-rights as possible and make their views even more radical? Obvious trolling and yet so many of them are taking the bait, it's hilarious. | 
Jan 6, 2018 11:15 AM
#8
| I'd tell OP to stop because his poor attempts at trolling are stale and stupid, but if it gets me another digit on my post count, I welcome all his bullshit with open arms! | 
Jan 6, 2018 11:20 AM
#9
| NudeBear said: Obvious trolling and yet so many of them are taking the bait, it's hilarious. Sorry dude but you're wrong. As i was "intensively" instructed by the authorities, this user is not trolling, and those threads are not bait. | 
Jan 6, 2018 11:37 AM
#10
| Swagernator said: NudeBear said: Obvious trolling and yet so many of them are taking the bait, it's hilarious. Sorry dude but you're wrong. As i was "intensively" instructed by the authorities, this user is not trolling, and those threads are not bait. This can't be true man! I'm so sure the guy here's trolling! How could he be serious?! | 
Jan 6, 2018 11:53 AM
#11
| Refugees aren't citizens, if you want to fight for voting rights, may I suggest pointing you to Japan where Japanese citizens who weren't born in Japan can't vote. | 
Jan 6, 2018 12:55 PM
#12
| 1337Taste said: nicethings said: this obsession with posting refugee threads baffles me on one end of the pole we have people who are claiming “they’re all rapists/terrorists” and on the other end we have people like this who claim they’re all “saints” I feel like people are definitely overblowing things here. I don’t live in Europe, but I can’t imagine it’s as buzzworthy as people are making it out to be. I don’t really have a strong opinion on refugees as long as they take strides to follow the laws of the land and don’t commit crimes. The ones who do commit crimes should be punished, regardless of their status. But I’m not a fearmongering banshee who thinks that they’re all going to rape and kill everyone either. I have posted about police brutality and transgender rights before as well. What's your point? I'm not the one blowing things out of proportion here. I even said at some point that there's always going to be bad apples in refugee population, but they are peaceful for the most part. You have people calling refugees "shitskins" here on MAL, and getting away with it. Surely you're not taking their side either? No, I’m not agreeing with them. I don’t defaultly have anything against refugees or entire religions per se. However, and this is where I’ll get called “racist” or some BS, I simply don’t think that there should be any sympathy extended to the ones who’ve committed crimes, especially rape. Regardless of status, they deserve to be prosecuted as native citizen would if they’re going to commit that kind of crime. No, I don’t think a few rapists are representative of an entire population of people. That being said, I also don’t think all boarders everywhere should be 100% open to anyone. I think letting too many people into an unfamiliar country at once is going to potentially create discord between them and the locals, but I don’t think assuming everyone is a rapist or terrorist is a smart thing to do either. The problem is that immigration is a lot more efficient in small bursts, rather than large waves, especially when introducing immigrants to nations that’re unfamiliar for them on a sociocultural scale. | 
Jan 6, 2018 1:03 PM
#13
| meanwhile, people from Puerto Rico can't vote in the United States Federal elections. | 
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language | 
Jan 6, 2018 1:50 PM
#14
| DreamingBeats said: meanwhile, people from Puerto Rico can't vote in the United States Federal elections. That needs to be dealt with, especially after the lack of response for hurricane relief. They deserve a vote in 2020. | 
Jan 6, 2018 2:24 PM
#15
| Hoppy said: DreamingBeats said: meanwhile, people from Puerto Rico can't vote in the United States Federal elections. That needs to be dealt with, especially after the lack of response for hurricane relief. They deserve a vote in 2020. If they don't pay the same taxes as every other American no they shouldn't. | 
Jan 6, 2018 2:24 PM
#16
| I'm neutral on it. People on just visa or refugee status dont have to be around for long term effects of who is voted for but same could be said for old people. They are a tiny minority so it won't really do much either way. | 
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀          ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀          ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀         ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ | 
Jan 6, 2018 2:31 PM
#17
| they should only vote if they are paying taxes like every citizen there | 
Jan 6, 2018 2:54 PM
#18
| Okay, we get it OP. You like to troll | 
| Nico- said:Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained @Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite | 
Jan 6, 2018 3:21 PM
#19
| I don't mind Citizens of EU Countries to take part in communal and EU Elections, but everything else should be restricted to actual Nationals (People with Citizenship and/or are ethnic-culturally related) of the respective Country. traed said:Old People have at least lived and worked in a given Country for a long Time and/or they have ethnic-cultural Bonds to a Country. Asylum Claimants and Residents coming from another Culture without Citizenship have neither. I'm neutral on it. People on just visa or refugee status dont have to be around for long term effects of who is voted for but same could be said for old people. They are a tiny minority so it won't really do much either way. | 
Jan 6, 2018 3:42 PM
#20
| Comic_Sans said: Okay, we get it OP. You like to troll I'm sorry you feel that way. If it's any consolation, I really am not trolling. Noboru said: I don't mind Citizens of EU Countries to take part in communal and EU Elections, but everything else should be restricted to actual Nationals (People with Citizenship and/or are ethnic-culturally related) of the respective Country. traed said:Old People have at least lived and worked in a given Country for a long Time and/or they have ethnic-cultural Bonds to a Country. Asylum Claimants and Residents coming from another Culture without Citizenship have neither. I'm neutral on it. People on just visa or refugee status dont have to be around for long term effects of who is voted for but same could be said for old people. They are a tiny minority so it won't really do much either way. Who do you suppose should represent the refugees in the Parliament? People who do not identify with their culture? | 
Jan 6, 2018 3:46 PM
#21
| Newhopes said: Hoppy said: DreamingBeats said: meanwhile, people from Puerto Rico can't vote in the United States Federal elections. That needs to be dealt with, especially after the lack of response for hurricane relief. They deserve a vote in 2020. If they don't pay the same taxes as every other American no they shouldn't. that's a myth. Myth: “Puerto Rico does not pay federal taxes” Before 2006, Puerto Rico paid more federal taxes than Vermont, Wyoming, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana and Alaska. In fact, from 1998 to 2016, Puerto Rico has paid approximately $74.4 billion in federal taxes (without adjusting for inflation). Vermont paid $66.7 billion in the same period. Even though the tax base was reduced after 2006 because of the economic depression, in 2016, Puerto Rico paid $3.5 billion. This is five-times more than the U.S. Armed Service members overseas and territories other than Puerto Rico altogether! However, Congress provides better economic tools to other territories: The U.S. Virgin Islands is exempt from cabotage laws and Northern Mariana Islands and Guam have a visa waiver program that boosted their tourism. Individual income generated in Puerto Rico is exempt from federal taxes, but that does not imply that Puerto Rico is exempt from paying any federal taxes. That misstatement has led Congress to refrain from giving the long overdue parity in many federal programs, such as Medicare and the Supplemental Social Security Income, both of which are paid by workers in Puerto Rico. source: http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/economy-budget/343118-debunking-2-more-myths-on-puerto-rico-economy | 
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language | 
Jan 6, 2018 3:50 PM
#22
| 1337Taste said:The Parliament represents first and foremost their own People. It's even written on our Parliament Building: Who do you suppose should represent the refugees in the Parliament? People who do not identify with their culture? | 
Jan 6, 2018 3:54 PM
#23
| Noboru said: I don't mind Citizens of EU Countries to take part in communal and EU Elections, but everything else should be restricted to actual Nationals (People with Citizenship and/or are ethnic-culturally related) of the respective Country. traed said:Old People have at least lived and worked in a given Country for a long Time and/or they have ethnic-cultural Bonds to a Country. Asylum Claimants and Residents coming from another Culture without Citizenship have neither. I'm neutral on it. People on just visa or refugee status dont have to be around for long term effects of who is voted for but same could be said for old people. They are a tiny minority so it won't really do much either way. People in assylum and refugees are actually two different categories. Assylum is for persecuted groups I think. Old people usually live in the past and sometimes the cause of political stagnation though. Work is work it's all the same around the world. You also could argue it's the fault of the US and UK among others that there are refugees to begin with. Also it talked about non EU non commonwealth people on visa. I doubt you could point out a huge difference between the culture of the US and Canada. The later is a commonwealth nation so Canadians can vote. | 
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀          ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀          ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀         ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ | 
Jan 6, 2018 4:05 PM
#24
| Can someone tell the reason why people mind about goverment has been commited to ensuring access to democratic participations for all citizens, so the refugees that has been granted visa have the rights to vote? | 
Jan 6, 2018 4:05 PM
#25
| Noboru said: 1337Taste said:The Parliament represents first and foremost their own People. It's even written on our Parliament Building: Who do you suppose should represent the refugees in the Parliament? People who do not identify with their culture? The Muslim share of Europe’s total population has been increasing steadily and will continue to grow in the coming decades. Sorry but, times are a-changin. You can't ignore them for any longer, and to do so would be a sign of ignorance and fascism. They would need to be represented in the Parliament sooner than you may think. | 
Jan 6, 2018 4:13 PM
#26
| Definitely. There should be a two-state solution for all of Europe already in 2018. One just like the proposed UN solution for Israel and Palestine. A shared control of the government. Separate but equal. It is the only way. I mean, who brings in a flood of refugees and then gives them the right to vote? I wonder who they will vote for? Hmmmmm. | 
SoverignJan 6, 2018 4:16 PM
Jan 6, 2018 4:38 PM
#27
| Onii-chan said:A "Refugee" is not a Citizen. Can someone tell the reason why people mind about goverment has been commited to ensuring access to democratic participations for all citizens, so the refugees that has been granted visa have the rights to vote? traed said:Uhm, "Refugees" or People seeking Refugee should be by Definition only those who seek Refugee. Being persecuted is one Reason, being displaced and/or expelled another one. But just wanting to have a better Life is neither. People in assylum and refugees are actually two different categories. Assylum is for persecuted groups I think. Old people usually live in the past and sometimes the cause of political stagnation though. Work is work it's all the same around the world. You also could argue it's the fault of the US and UK among others that there are refugees to begin with. Also it talked about non EU non commonwealth people on visa. I doubt you could point out a huge difference between the culture of the US and Canada. The later is a commonwealth nation so Canadians can vote. It's not the Fault of the old when the younger ones don't make more Children and/or don't go to vote themselves more often. It doesn't matter who is at fault, Countries shouldn't have any Obligation to give Voting Rights for their own national Parliament to foreign Nationals at all. If Commonwealth Citizen can already vote in Scotland, then I don't mind that, since they share at least the British Culture. @1337Taste: They are actually already represented, as long as they're German Citizens: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-chancellor-germany-same-sex-marriage-vote-lgbt-muslim-mps-berlin-bundestag-cdu-sdp-a7819391.html And we can ignore them, because Voting Rights in a foreign Country aren't Human Rights. You also can't expect that if you visited the House of someone else that you would have a Say in any Decisions. | 
Jan 6, 2018 5:26 PM
#28
| Noboru said: traed said:Uhm, "Refugees" or People seeking Refugee should be by Definition only those who seek Refugee. Being persecuted is one Reason, being displaced and/or expelled another one. But just wanting to have a better Life is neither. People in assylum and refugees are actually two different categories. Assylum is for persecuted groups I think. Old people usually live in the past and sometimes the cause of political stagnation though. Work is work it's all the same around the world. You also could argue it's the fault of the US and UK among others that there are refugees to begin with. Also it talked about non EU non commonwealth people on visa. I doubt you could point out a huge difference between the culture of the US and Canada. The later is a commonwealth nation so Canadians can vote. It's not the Fault of the old when the younger ones don't make more Children and/or don't go to vote themselves more often. It doesn't matter who is at fault, Countries shouldn't have any Obligation to give Voting Rights for their own national Parliament to foreign Nationals at all. If Commonwealth Citizen can already vote in Scotland, then I don't mind that, since they share at least the British Culture. You're the one that said assylum. A political assylum and refugee program actually are seporate programs for some reason. You can only get on either if your life is in danger. Any other motivation is irrelevant. Older people have higher voter turnout because they have less variety to their schedule but you're missing the point. But when they are on their land and following their laws and are there by permission of the government they are as effected as people that live their as permanent citizens. Visa and refugee and those in asylum are temporary citizens basically. The point went over your head again. What is culturally different from a Canadian and an American on visa in Scotland that means one can vote and another canr? If you read the OP again it talks about people on visa not just refugee status. What is so British about Italians or Greeks or Turkish who are from EU nations so people from there in the UK can vote. There really isn't a lot of logic on who can and can not vote. You used culture as your argument and clearly it's not currently based on culture at all. | 
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀          ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀          ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀         ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ | 
Jan 7, 2018 1:57 AM
#29
| @traed: "Refugees" who enter Countries claim Asylum, so it isn't incorrect to call them "Asylum Claimants". lol, so older People get bored and that's why they have a higher Voter Turnout? The Point doesn't seem to even exist. Citizenship comes with Right and Obligations. There's a Reason why you can only naturalize after several Years in most Countries and only if you've stayed without a criminal Record. Canada is culturally closer to the UK, plus they're in a political Union. People with an EU-Citizenship are allowed to vote in communal Elections, because they are in a political Union and they have the Freedom of Movement, which allows them to permanently stay in another EU Country, even if they aren't Citizen of that Country. Still, they cannot vote in national Elections of a foreign Country at all. People with a Citizenship from other Countries are restricted to 90 Days at most, unless they have special Visas. | 
Jan 7, 2018 7:45 AM
#31
| NudeBear said:lol, this would go against our Basic Law and changing that in that Regard goes even against the Motto of our Parliament Building (see #23). This law should be passed in Germany. | 
Jan 7, 2018 7:54 AM
#32
| congrats probably the best bait so far this year. i literally physically cringed. | 
| Oh maybe, maybe it's the clothes we wear The tasteless bracelets and the dye in our hair Or maybe, maybe it's our nowhere towns or our nothing places But we're trash, you and me We're the litter on the breeze We're the lovers on the streets Just trash, me and you It's in everything we do It's in everything we do | 
Jan 7, 2018 8:58 AM
#33
| Noboru said: NudeBear said:lol, this would go against our Basic Law and changing that in that Regard goes even against the Motto of our Parliament Building (see #23). This law should be passed in Germany. Then after that Merkel should make a 5 million refugee yearly quota. Germany needs it. | 
Jan 7, 2018 10:44 AM
#34
| NudeBear said:lol, then the AfD will get the absolute Majority. And if the AfD is not good enough, People will start to vote for the NPD (Nationalistic Party Germany; survived two or so Ban Attempts), then. Merkel already struggles to form a new Government and her Government has been sending People back already or at least, they attempted to. And still, every second polled German wants her to step down, so this will be the last Thing anyone in the managing Government will propose. Noboru said: NudeBear said: This law should be passed in Germany. Then after that Merkel should make a 5 million refugee yearly quota. Germany needs it. Given also the Election of Sebastian Kurz and his Coalition Partner where a former Nazi has been its first Leader and the Fact that the current Vice Chancellor Strache had i.a. Contacts with Rightwinged and Neo-Nazi Movements, Germany certainly won't consider doing that. While in Theory, there won't be any Limits with Regards to "Refugees", in Practice, there already is or else Merkel and the other old Elites in our Country would have been long finished already. | 
NoboruJan 7, 2018 10:57 AM
Jan 7, 2018 3:29 PM
#35
| Noboru said: NudeBear said:lol, then the AfD will get the absolute Majority. And if the AfD is not good enough, People will start to vote for the NPD (Nationalistic Party Germany; survived two or so Ban Attempts), then. Merkel already struggles to form a new Government and her Government has been sending People back already or at least, they attempted to. And still, every second polled German wants her to step down, so this will be the last Thing anyone in the managing Government will propose. Noboru said: NudeBear said:lol, this would go against our Basic Law and changing that in that Regard goes even against the Motto of our Parliament Building (see #23). This law should be passed in Germany. Then after that Merkel should make a 5 million refugee yearly quota. Germany needs it. Given also the Election of Sebastian Kurz and his Coalition Partner where a former Nazi has been its first Leader and the Fact that the current Vice Chancellor Strache had i.a. Contacts with Rightwinged and Neo-Nazi Movements, Germany certainly won't consider doing that. While in Theory, there won't be any Limits with Regards to "Refugees", in Practice, there already is or else Merkel and the other old Elites in our Country would have been long finished already. It'd be too late, by then you're all going to be praying towards mecca. Time to get used to kosher...or was it halal? | 
Jan 7, 2018 4:17 PM
#36
| Noboru said: @traed: "Refugees" who enter Countries claim Asylum, so it isn't incorrect to call them "Asylum Claimants". I suppose. I wasn't arguing just pointing out something I heard before and read before. lol, so older People get bored and that's why they have a higher Voter Turnout? The Point doesn't seem to even exist. I never said boredom. They have less unexpected events. They also are more likely to have a liscense and own a car. Can't vote if you can't get there. They also had been working longer so they have higher paying jobs and dont have to work as many hours as a result. Voting day should be a holiday in all countries.. Citizenship comes with Right and Obligations. There's a Reason why you can only naturalize after several Years in most Countries and only if you've stayed without a criminal Record. Part of that is because they don't want people getting citizenship then deciding they don't like the place then leave. It is wasted effort. That doesn't refute anything I said. While they are living there everyone regardless of nationality they are effected same as everyone else. They pay taxes, they have to follow the laws and so on. Canada is culturally closer to the UK, plus they're in a political Union. I'm from the US and have been to Canada and the UK it's not a huge difference between the three. Political unions are arbitrary in that any country can have one. People with an EU-Citizenship are allowed to vote in communal Elections, because they are in a political Union and they have the Freedom of Movement, which allows them to permanently stay in another EU Country, even if they aren't Citizen of that Country. Still, they cannot vote in national Elections of a foreign Country at all. They aren't culturally the same. People from commonwealth nations don't have freedom of movement. Scotland is part if the UK which is still going through Brexit so so much for that argument unless they make freedom of movement deals to replace it. People with a Citizenship from other Countries are restricted to 90 Days at most, unless they have special Visas.  The longest visa I've seen is four years. As long as their visa is valid for about two thirds of a term or more there isn't much point in having them not be allowed to vote. That's all I pointed out. I haven't really said they should. | 
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀          ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀          ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀         ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ | 
Jan 7, 2018 6:30 PM
#37
| Nice bait dude. Citizenship isn't something you can give away like that. At least you should know the language and the culture of the place they're in. Lowering voting age and extending citizenship further will lead to the demise of a democracy and turn it into an ochlocracy. But still, you're trolling so there's no point in this. | 
| Ἄκουε δή, ἦ δ᾽ ὅς. φημὶ γὰρ ἐγὼ εἶναι τὸ δίκαιον οὐκ ἄλλο τι ἢ τὸ τοῦ κρείττονος συμφέρον. Listen—I say that justice is nothing other than the advantage of the stronger. | 
Jan 7, 2018 6:36 PM
#38
| Arachnophile said: Nice bait dude. Citizenship isn't something you can give away like that. At least you should know the language and the culture of the place they're in. Lowering voting age and extending citizenship further will lead to the demise of a democracy and turn it into an ochlocracy. But still, you're trolling so there's no point in this. Implying there is anything to demise. Representative democracy with a winner take all model and lobbying is not good democracy. | 
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀          ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀          ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀         ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ | 
Jan 7, 2018 6:48 PM
#39
| I'm personally not against it, provided they've been in the country for a certain amount of time. | 
| ╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭ | 
Jan 7, 2018 7:15 PM
#40
| Fuchsia said: I'm personally not against it, provided they've been in the country for a certain amount of time. if they've been in the country for long enough, they could apply for citizenship and get voting rights that way. in the US, you need to be a permanent resident for at least 5 years and be physically present for no less than 30 months prior to applying for US citizenship (among other requirements, such as knowing basic (elementary grade) english) source: https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/educators/naturalization-information#eligibility_reqmts | 
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language | 
Jan 7, 2018 7:39 PM
#41
| DreamingBeats said: Fuchsia said: I'm personally not against it, provided they've been in the country for a certain amount of time. if they've been in the country for long enough, they could apply for citizenship and get voting rights that way. in the US, you need to be a permanent resident for at least 5 years and be physically present for no less than 30 months prior to applying for US citizenship (among other requirements, such as knowing basic (elementary grade) english) source: https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/educators/naturalization-information#eligibility_reqmts I don't live in the US, but in general, I would prefer it that way. 5 years seems fair. | 
| ╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭ | 
Jan 8, 2018 9:26 AM
#42
| NudeBear said:It's "halal" for Muslims and "kosher" for Jews. Aren't both the same, anyway? It'd be too late, by then you're all going to be praying towards mecca. Time to get used to kosher...or was it halal? @traed: There are indeed different official Statuses, but for Comprehension: "Asylum Applicant/Claimant" is usually the most accurate Term, plus it's neutral compared to "Refugee" or "(economic) Migrant". That's why I prefer that Term instead of having to put it in Quote-Marks every Time. Voting is much easier over here. You just have to walk to your next best Elementary School or Police Station or Fire Brigade Station or whatever, which is usually listed on the Letter you get with your Voting ID, which you just have to show. Elections are also usually hold on a Sunday, which is a free Day for the vast Majority here. Citizenship comes not only with Rights and Obligations, but also with certain Requirements. There is also the Option to apply for having a permanent Residence. Thing is, when you have Citizenship of the Country or are in any other Form related to it, you are allowed to vote there, which is true for many Countries. Besides, I didn't speak about having to have both a political Union and a political Union to get any special Rights. It's "and/or". Asylum Applicants neither have any cultural Connections as late Repatriates or something, nor do they have Citizenship when they arrive, so they simply aren't allowed to vote as of now. Even when someone is allowed to stay longer, there are several Problem if we just allow everyone living in the Country to vote: 1) People need at least a permanent Residency to get the Letters with their Voting IDs in the first Place 2) Asylum Claimants may have false Identities and there's already Welfare-Fraud being done by some of them 3) They might not be able to understand what the Parties and/or Candidates stand for 4) They might not even be able to read the Ballot 5) If we start to pamper everyone with having everything translated into their Languages so they can vote, then there will be much less Incentives to even learn the Language of the Locals. Instead, the Locals are being coerced to learn the Languages of the Newcomers. 6) A Person's Right to stay might be disbanded sooner than expected 7) Policies may only really affect People over a longer Term of Time. Asylum and similar Statuses are usually granted only for a short Time, until the Region is deemed as safe, as long as the Application has been accepted and there haven't been any negative Incidents. 8) Tourists or whoever could come here and vote, making it impossible to keep Track on who exactly has already voted and who not and having everyone vote is a ridiculous Prospect in and by itself | 
Jan 8, 2018 9:36 AM
#43
| 149597871 said: So... is the ultimate goal of these threads to trigger as many alt-rights as possible and make their views even more radical? Quite sure it is. But even though I don't consider myself as alt right, I disagree with given them right to vote. Refugees should go back to their country of origin when the situation is viable there, that's the basics. They are not immigrants, but people who ask for temporary asylum. Why should you give them the right to influence the laws of a country which isn't theirs? On topic: I can't wait to see all the lefties in 20 years when EU is fucked and full of Muslim people who will want to make Islam the main religion. There are already plenty of cases of Muslim population in France and the Netherlands who criticise Christian school for displaying crosses and other religious symbols. People need to draw the line between economical immigrants and refugees, something Germany and Sweden failed miserably at. Not a religious person myself, and not against giving them help. But against the abuse of EU laws and principles by people who shouldn't be here and don't add value to our society. Every single one who is accused and proved guilty of any crime, should be sent home. | 
Jan 8, 2018 11:55 AM
#44
| Nocturn3 said: 149597871 said: So... is the ultimate goal of these threads to trigger as many alt-rights as possible and make their views even more radical? Quite sure it is. But even though I don't consider myself as alt right, I disagree with given them right to vote. Refugees should go back to their country of origin when the situation is viable there, that's the basics. They are not immigrants, but people who ask for temporary asylum. Why should you give them the right to influence the laws of a country which isn't theirs? They don't vote on laws they vote on representatives in elections. Noboru said: Voting is much easier over here. You just have to walk to your next best Elementary School or Police Station or Fire Brigade Station or whatever, which is usually listed on the Letter you get with your Voting ID, which you just have to show. Elections are also usually hold on a Sunday, which is a free Day for the vast Majority here. I'm not sure what they do in the UK or more specifically Scotland but I doubt it's a holiday. A lot of people work weekends. Noboru said: Citizenship comes not only with Rights and Obligations, but also with certain Requirements. There is also the Option to apply for having a permanent Residence. Thing is, when you have Citizenship of the Country or are in any other Form related to it, you are allowed to vote there, which is true for many Countries. Besides, I didn't speak about having to have both a political Union and a political Union to get any special Rights. It's "and/or". Asylum Applicants neither have any cultural Connections as late Repatriates or something, nor do they have Citizenship when they arrive, so they simply aren't allowed to vote as of now. And if they go along with this they can vote... Noboru said: Even when someone is allowed to stay longer, there are several Problem if we just allow everyone living in the Country to vote: 1) People need at least a permanent Residency to get the Letters with their Voting IDs in the first Place 2) Asylum Claimants may have false Identities and there's already Welfare-Fraud being done by some of them 3) They might not be able to understand what the Parties and/or Candidates stand for 4) They might not even be able to read the Ballot 5) If we start to pamper everyone with having everything translated into their Languages so they can vote, then there will be much less Incentives to even learn the Language of the Locals. Instead, the Locals are being coerced to learn the Languages of the Newcomers. 6) A Person's Right to stay might be disbanded sooner than expected 7) Policies may only really affect People over a longer Term of Time. Asylum and similar Statuses are usually granted only for a short Time, until the Region is deemed as safe, as long as the Application has been accepted and there haven't been any negative Incidents. 8) Tourists or whoever could come here and vote, making it impossible to keep Track on who exactly has already voted and who not and having everyone vote is a ridiculous Prospect in and by itself 1. Pretty sure they aren't homeless. They have places they stay at have adresses. 2. And locals can have a false identity. Even if they do their false identity is not really all that different from their actual identity since it's not like there is a global database of people it's just a name. 3. They use less healthcare than locals in the UK. I don't recall if they use welfare but they dont apply for the same kind I think. 4. Same can be said for some locals. That's only an issue with legislative voting but this is mostly for representatives but even then if they had to they can do multiple languages of ballots. Pretty sure anyone can read a name by matching the symbols regardless of if they know the language. 5. Not really. Legal documents often can come in different languages because no matter how many languages someone speaks they always know their first language best unless they went decades without using it. 6. And old people might die before terms are up or a citizen might move to another country or isnt even living there (im not sure if they have absentee voting like we do in US) 7. It's not a direct democracy. Again it's mostly voting for representatives. 8. People living in a country arent tourists. This is a strawman. | 
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Jan 8, 2018 11:56 AM
#45
| @traed Yeah, and what do does representatives do? Simple logic, not that hard right? | 
Jan 8, 2018 12:00 PM
#46
| Nocturn3 said: @traed Yeah, and what do does representatives do? Simple logic, not that hard right? What do you think they are going to do? Legalize rape? Lol | 
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀          ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀          ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀         ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ | 
Jan 8, 2018 12:03 PM
#47
| traed said: Nocturn3 said: @traed Yeah, and what do does representatives do? Simple logic, not that hard right? What do you think they are going to do? Legalize rape? Lol Funny how people go to the extreme very quickly... It's simple, if they aren't citizens of the country, who will stay there for a long period of time, then they should have no right to vote, no matter the "possible consequences". The born population and immigrants who have a stable job and will probably marry and have kids at the country are the ones who should vote. Not people who refuse to fit in and adapt. | 
Jan 8, 2018 12:07 PM
#48
| They should just claim squatters rights or something. Like, I let you sleep on my couch for three months and you own half my house. https://definitions.uslegal.com/s/squatters-rights/ Remember kiddies, possession is nine tenths of the law! | 
Jan 8, 2018 12:10 PM
#49
| Nocturn3 said: traed said: Nocturn3 said: @traed Yeah, and what do does representatives do? Simple logic, not that hard right? What do you think they are going to do? Legalize rape? Lol Funny how people go to the extreme very quickly... It's simple, if they aren't citizens of the country, who will stay there for a long period of time, then they should have no right to vote, no matter the "possible consequences". The born population and immigrants who have a stable job and will probably marry and have kids at the country are the ones who should vote. Not people who refuse to fit in and adapt. They still are living there. As I said before old people don't have to stick around they just die. Citizens can move to other countries too. So the same applies to native citizens althiugh to less degree but they are a tiny minority even compared to just all the old people so it's the locals that have that bigger impact of not having to be around for long term effects. If it's about seeing things through you should be demanding a maximum voting age and outlaw people who are dying from incurable disease from voting. If they were allowed to vote that may make them feel more a part of the country and want to act like it. | 
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀          ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀          ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀         ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ | 
Jan 8, 2018 12:17 PM
#50
| I completely agree with having a cap voting age, but comparing a citizen born in a country to a refugee is impossible. The citizen has a sense of patriotism (most cases) and will have kids most likely, so he'll want to make the best decision for the country. The refugee has none of this things. Btw, 5 year period comparing to maybe a lifetime or 20+ years? Do you think that's a reasonable comparison? That is BS. They have totally different views of the world, take women rights for example. They should be send home soon. A lot of them aren't even working, and are just a burden to tax payers. Plus, they just want to go to the rich countries of EU. | 
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