Comic_Sans said: Effulgence said: I don't care about vegans that don't shove their diet down my throat, I am totally fine with them. It's the ones that feel the need to tell me all about it 25/7 because they think them being a vegan make them a superior human being that bother me.Sadly there is a kind of truth to that, seems like some people are vegan because somehow it makes them feel superior, but that's not what being vegan is about. It's a common trend not only with veganism, nowdays everything is so ego driven that people become very insecure about themself, everything becomes a competion of who has a better life and if some one else has somthing different be it religion , taste in music, sexual preference, ect, then people become triggered and defensive. |
Effulgence said: Indeed, the vegan meme lord who posted on the first page is a good example of that.Comic_Sans said: I don't care about vegans that don't shove their diet down my throat, I am totally fine with them. It's the ones that feel the need to tell me all about it 25/7 because they think them being a vegan make them a superior human being that bother me. It's a common trend not only with veganism, nowdays everything is so ego driven that people become very insecure about themself, everything becomes a competion of who has a better life and if some one else has somthing different be it religion , taste in music, sexual preference, ect, then people become triggered and defensive. |
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
| Responding to stimuli isn't the same as fully experiencing pain. There is no method for them to feel pain that we know of, but it is possible. Sentience isn't actually needed to feel pain, it is just needed to understand pain that is felt. shotz said: vegetables don't feel pain, they just react to stimuli, there's a difference. an organism can't feel emotions and pain ie. be sentient w/o a central nervous system. as for those youtubers the first one's a fucking idiot. vegan gains, he's seemingly an asshole as a person but in terms of arguing about vegan issues he's usually spot on. ppl get so hung up over his trollish antics but his arguments are good. in terms of vegan youtubers, i'd reccomend bite size vegan, she seems the most rational and respectable as a person. i'm a vegan of 6 years btw. i don't go around preaching or calling people murderers for consuming animals, but at the same time if someone asks me about my opinions i won't mince words. modern animal agriculture is murderous and psychopathic imo. most consumers of that industry probably couldn't do that to an animal themselves, so they pay a company to do it for them. Feeling pain is not necessary for sentience. Some humans can't feel pain from a rare condition. So the opposite could be true sentience may not be necessary to feel pain. Also a central nervous system is just one system, it doesnt mean it it's the only possible system that can do that, it's just the only one understood atm. There has actually been some scientists that think plants are sentient. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| Fuck off please. Even if plants could feel pain and emotions as much as animals can, (which I seriously doubt), eating meat kills more plants anyway. Have you seen how much food and water a cow consumes? The U.S could feed almost a billion people with the amount of grain it grows for livestock, which is about 70% of American grain. The "plants feel pain too" argument is pointless for meat eaters to strike back with, because looking at the facts they consume MORE plants than vegetarians, ironically. Let's face it, the real reason people eat meat isn't usually because they have a solid reason to, it's because meat tastes good and they don't care enough about animal suffering to change. Just admit that you don't care and move on. Vegans may be wrong when they say that plants can't feel anything at all, but this shit is too weak to disprove their points. |
sobanoodleApr 11, 2017 5:59 PM
| You are now breathing manually. |
| I can feel pain... So am I a vegan or not? Which is it? |
| I take care of some nepenthes plants and it's kinda fun watching them gobble up unwanted flies and ants and stuff plants enjoy meat too (until I have to clean out dead bug skeletons |
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AxBattler said: swirlydragon said: He was the one who proved that plants feel pain Err, no. You are misinterpreting the results of his studies. Here is the original paper: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/S00442-014-2995-6 Does the word "pain" appear anywhere in it? No. And the reason for that is, while the study showed plants react to sound (vibration) stimuli, yes, one that matches the one which might be a threat to itself, it is -not- a proof of pain. Being able to sense something, or being pre-programmed to react to something, doesn't mean that something is pain. Sorry bruh but I was referrring to this guy:- Heidi Appel is a senior research scientist in the Division of Plant Sciences in the College of Agriculture, Food and Natural Resources and the Bond Life Sciences Center at MU. The article you provided does not show which scientist worked on that particular research while my article provides the name of the scientist who worked on the research @sobanoodle Yeah and if we don't kill those animals then they'll keep on eating those plants for the rest of their lives! #PLANTS LIVES MATTER @LabelFlash Why don't you watch this video? It's awesome :) |
swirlydragonApr 11, 2017 11:40 PM
| Isn't this pretty old news? I think I've heard about it like 2-3 years ago. And what pisses me off the most is when some Vegans call us murderers for eating animals I mean they are technically wrong since murder means unlawful killing of human beings and that is neither unlawful nor killing human beings.Practically they are kinda correct, your consumption of meat leads to the methodical killing of animals. If you can't accept or live with that then maybe you shouldn't eat meat. Vegan diet is better but there's not need to be an ass about it nor appeal to victimization and sentimentalism in order to make people change their habits. |
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swirlydragon said: Sorry bruh but I was referrring to this guy:- Heidi Appel is a senior research scientist in the Division of Plant Sciences in the College of Agriculture, Food and Natural Resources and the Bond Life Sciences Center at MU. The article you provided does not show which scientist worked on that particular research while my article provides the name of the scientist who worked on the research Really, bruh :/ Allow me to highlight it for you.  (Also, Dr. Appel isn't a guy) |
AxBattlerApr 12, 2017 12:49 AM
| @AxBattler I LOST! NO!!!! Anyway, my point still stands According to researchers at the Institute for Applied Physics at the University of Bonn in Germany, plants release gases that are the equivalent of crying out in pain. |
| Jesus Christ you have to be like 12 if you actually think plants feel pain. Plants don't have a nervous system. None of your articles actually say they feel pain, if you can read. What they do is respond unconsciously to stimuli. These responses are automatic and not the result of any consciousness. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| I really doubt that plants feel pain....at least not in the same way animals feel pain. however to a certain extent the OP has a point. If eating meat makes you a murder...then so does eating plants. They are both living things regardless of whether or not they feel pain. To all vegans/vegetarians I'm sorry for generalizing here....but insulting or trying to guilt trip carnivores, and omnivores isn't gonna win you any friends. However I think you will find that most people think that animals should be treated with dignity...even if they are being used for sustenance. The real problem is that there is a lack of respect for animals in our society. We view them as being inferior beings. You know Native Americans had great respect for animals. However they recognized that you need to consume life in order to live...and alot of times that means eating animals...as agriculture wasn't as advanced as it is today. Point is you aren't going to change peoples eating habits, at least not by guilt tripping them. However influencing society to create laws that either improve the living conditions of farm animals or provide a more humane death is possible. With that said...I think most vegans/vegetarians already know this...but every group has its assholes. |
| @Effulgence I saw everything and its opposite when it comes to milk. It's veeeeery common to twist studies until they say what you need them to say in these groups, so I'd be careful if I was you. Aside from D-galactose, wich can only be found in milk and not in dairy products, I couldn't find a decent study that proved milk was the poison I keep hearing it is. All these anti-milk/gluten/yada yada diets are trends that bring good money to the industry. OFC there's gonna be some dumbass lobbying around it. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
Clebardman said: @Effulgence I saw everything and its opposite when it comes to milk. It's veeeeery common to twist studies until they say what you need them to say in these groups, so I'd be careful if I was you. Aside from D-galactose, wich can only be found in milk and not in dairy products, I couldn't find a decent study that proved milk was the poison I keep hearing it is. All these anti-milk/gluten/yada yada diets are trends that bring good money to the industry. OFC there's gonna be some dumbass lobbying around it. If you think about it, it can't be good for you, that milk is firstly ment to grow a calf for a fuck ton in a short period of time and you are drinking that. And even "if" milk was naturally good for you, the milk industry is nasty with all those antibiotics, chemicals and other shenanigans they do, to make the most profit out of it. |
Effulgence said: Clebardman said: @Effulgence I saw everything and its opposite when it comes to milk. It's veeeeery common to twist studies until they say what you need them to say in these groups, so I'd be careful if I was you. Aside from D-galactose, wich can only be found in milk and not in dairy products, I couldn't find a decent study that proved milk was the poison I keep hearing it is. All these anti-milk/gluten/yada yada diets are trends that bring good money to the industry. OFC there's gonna be some dumbass lobbying around it. If you think about it, it can't be good for you, that milk is firstly ment to grow a calf for a fuck ton in a short period of time and you are drinking that. And even "if" milk was naturally good for you, the milk industry is nasty with all those antibiotics, chemicals and other shenanigans they do, to make the most profit out of it. There hasn't been near enough studies to prove that cows given antibiotics produce milk that leads to an antibiotic resistance in humans. If you are going to assert that milk has stuff that is bad for you...then you need to use evidence to back your shit up. Besides pretty much all foods has stuff...that really isn't good for you...but they are is such small doses that it usually doesn't have a negative effect on your health. Same thing applies to milk...as long as you aren't drinking it excessively...then it wont hurt you. You just seam overly paranoid to me. You aren't one of those anti gmo types are you? |
| @astrozombie84 I wouden't say that i'm paranoid, but yeah i do pay alot of attention to my health, i do only have one life afterall. And it pays of for me, i haven't been sick in over a year. What do you mean by one of those gmo types? I don't go out of my way to avoid them but if i can i will. |
Effulgence said: @astrozombie84 I wouden't say that i'm paranoid, but yeah i do pay alot of attention to my health, i do only have one life afterall. And it pays of for me, i haven't been sick in over a year. What do you mean by one of those gmo types? I don't go out of my way to avoid them but if i can i will. Its fine to pay attention to your health. The issue is that you have no clue what you are talking about. You read some propaganda pieces...and now think you are an expert on milk...Sorry but you aren't. If you don't want to drink milk...that's fine..but honestly you are being silly. Milk like most things wont impact your health if you consume it in moderation. What I mean is there are alot of people that bought into the anti-gmo propaganda....that its much worse for you then non gmos. However science isn't their side. Besides pretty much all foods have been altered anyways...through selective breeding. I mean have you ever seen a wild banana? Its vastly different then the Cavendish...the most common type of banana you see it stores. Genetically modifying foods....just takes that to the next level. Speaking of the cavendish...Its being destroyed by a particular type of fungus...which is very dangerous is eaten by humans. Alot of times chemicals are applied to prevent the fungus from infecting the banana. So in order to save the industry....and reduce the amount of chemicals being used....scientists are working on a genetically modified cavendish that is immune to that fungus. My point being that genetically modifying plants & animals isn't a bad thing....provided you know what you're doing. |
| @Effulgence regarding antibiotics... There are many ways to produce shitty food, and vegetables aren't exactly a safe pick either. I grew up in the countryside and saw what these guys poor on their fields. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| read that and answer if you are a vegan and answer me and if you can not that mean that being a vegan is a stupid thing all the people who are vegan because they think killing animals is a crime are stupid first of all if the animals who can't produce any food (like the cow)and who can be eaten aren't eaten why do they exist in the first place .everything exist for a reason and what you are saying that they can not eat feel because they do not have a nervous system can be true and knowing that you do not eat animals because they feel pain so why do you not eat fish since the fish doesn't have an enough neurological system to feel the pain in a conscientious way so when they hooked by a fish-man the fish reaction will be unconscious because they do not have nocicepteurs which are Pain sensory receptors in the human brain so they reaction will be an automatically defensive reflex like the plant so if you say the fish part is wrong you are saying the plant feel pain so you can not eat them and if you say that the fish part is true that mean you can eat fish so i want an answer |
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astrozombie84 said: Effulgence said: @astrozombie84 I wouden't say that i'm paranoid, but yeah i do pay alot of attention to my health, i do only have one life afterall. And it pays of for me, i haven't been sick in over a year. What do you mean by one of those gmo types? I don't go out of my way to avoid them but if i can i will. Its fine to pay attention to your health. The issue is that you have no clue what you are talking about. You read some propaganda pieces...and now think you are an expert on milk...Sorry but you aren't. If you don't want to drink milk...that's fine..but honestly you are being silly. Milk like most things wont impact your health if you consume it in moderation. What I mean is there are alot of people that bought into the anti-gmo propaganda....that its much worse for you then non gmos. However science isn't their side. Besides pretty much all foods have been altered anyways...through selective breeding. I mean have you ever seen a wild banana? Its vastly different then the Cavendish...the most common type of banana you see it stores. Genetically modifying foods....just takes that to the next level. Speaking of the cavendish...Its being destroyed by a particular type of fungus...which is very dangerous is eaten by humans. Alot of times chemicals are applied to prevent the fungus from infecting the banana. So in order to save the industry....and reduce the amount of chemicals being used....scientists are working on a genetically modified cavendish that is immune to that fungus. My point being that genetically modifying plants & animals isn't a bad thing....provided you know what you're doing. I do not claim to be a milk expert i'm sry if it seemed like that, however it's not like i've only read one thing about milk and said " milks is bad mkay" i've read and watched documentaries about it, tho not milk specifically it was part of it. And from what i have seen and read i made the conclusion that milk is bad. Yes i know about selective breeding ect, like those seedless bananas and grapes for example i know those aren't natural. "genetically modifying plants and animals isen't a bad thing" mmh this is where you lose me, do you truely believe that it's good to do that? |
Clebardman said: @Effulgence regarding antibiotics... There are many ways to produce shitty food, and vegetables aren't exactly a safe pick either. I grew up in the countryside and saw what these guys poor on their fields. Yes that's true all those chemicals used on vegatables aren't good either i never said they where. That's why i prefer taking bio fruits and vegetables. |
| Wow, didn't know hating vegans was still hype. Seriously, some people could legit use all the determination they have when it comes to hating on vegans to actually become vegans. But no, just point at a few controversial youtube channels to prove that vegans are a bunch of assholes and that it somehow justifies us being in the wrong. Eating plants is still better for plants than eating animals is so idk what you're trying to prove. Oh look at @Effulgence, he's a vegan and he's pretty chill, he must be some kind of rare exception. So the type of vegan that annoys you is the self-righteous asshole who thinks he's better than everyone just for being vegan? Wow what a shock, it's not like every community ever has those extremes who are more embarrassing for people in the community than for people outside of it. Nah whatever, just shot on vegans for being weird, that's the cool thing to do anyway. |
| Plants do NOT feel pain. They respond to their environment and stimuli. Just like a plant doesn't 'feel' water with its roots- it simply absorbs it via a passive process (osmosis) due to differences in water concentrations. It doesn't 'want' anything, as such, and it doesn't 'know' what it's doing. If a plant responds to something eating it or whatevs, it's a biological defence mechanism. Not because it feels pain. The lack a brain, nervous system, and nociceptors, therefore are not capable of feeling pain as we think of it. Plus, a plant would also need to be sentient in order to feel and perceive pain, which they aren't. Anyway, r.e. vegans, who cares? Eat what you want, just don't try and force other people to do the same. |
ladamesansmerciApr 12, 2017 6:14 AM
| 'I love you because you're you. I'm happy that you're whole. I don't care if there are sides of you that I don't know, or don't like. If that's who you are, that's fine. As long as you're whole, that's enough for me.'-Kouko Kaga |
| the poin sobanoodle said: the point of this argument is to tell you that your cause to not eat meat because animal feel pain is just a stupid argument since you also eat plant witch also feel pain so everything you sad was shit and yes we eat meat because it is delicious but also because eating only plants isn't good and you know when i see animals being murdered in a cruel way i do react like any other meat eater at least most of them and there are difference between killing an animal in cruel way and to a pointless cause like for fun and killing animals in a more humanitarian way and fo a purpose like being eaten witch is the cause why most animals or at least half of them exist in the first place and why does the fish exist if it is not to be eaten Fuck off please. Even if plants could feel pain and emotions as much as animals can, (which I seriously doubt), eating meat kills more plants anyway. Have you seen how much food and water a cow consumes? The U.S could feed almost a billion people with the amount of grain it grows for livestock, which is about 70% of American grain. The "plants feel pain too" argument is pointless for meat eaters to strike back with, because looking at the facts they consume MORE plants than vegetarians, ironically. Let's face it, the real reason people eat meat isn't usually because they have a solid reason to, it's because meat tastes good and they don't care enough about animal suffering to change. Just admit that you don't care and move on. Vegans may be wrong when they say that plants can't feel anything at all, but this shit is too weak to disprove their points. |
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Effulgence said: astrozombie84 said: Its fine to pay attention to your health. The issue is that you have no clue what you are talking about. You read some propaganda pieces...and now think you are an expert on milk...Sorry but you aren't. If you don't want to drink milk...that's fine..but honestly you are being silly. Milk like most things wont impact your health if you consume it in moderation. What I mean is there are alot of people that bought into the anti-gmo propaganda....that its much worse for you then non gmos. However science isn't their side. Besides pretty much all foods have been altered anyways...through selective breeding. I mean have you ever seen a wild banana? Its vastly different then the Cavendish...the most common type of banana you see it stores. Genetically modifying foods....just takes that to the next level. Speaking of the cavendish...Its being destroyed by a particular type of fungus...which is very dangerous is eaten by humans. Alot of times chemicals are applied to prevent the fungus from infecting the banana. So in order to save the industry....and reduce the amount of chemicals being used....scientists are working on a genetically modified cavendish that is immune to that fungus. My point being that genetically modifying plants & animals isn't a bad thing....provided you know what you're doing. I do not claim to be a milk expert i'm sry if it seemed like that, however it's not like i've only read one thing about milk and said " milks is bad mkay" i've read and watched documentaries about it, tho not milk specifically it was part of it. And from what i have seen and read i made the conclusion that milk is bad. Yes i know about selective breeding ect, like those seedless bananas and grapes for example i know those aren't natural. "genetically modifying plants and animals isen't a bad thing" mmh this is where you lose me, do you truely believe that it's good to do that? Do you think that documentaries have to tell the truth? In this modern age there is so much misinformation that its not even funny. I'm just saying you need to take things with a grain of salt...no pun intended. More importantly you need to back things up with evidence. genetically modifying plants, and animals...isn't good or bad...its neutral. It can be used for both good, and bad. Which is why its important to regulate it. What are you trying to achieve with that photo? are you trying to elicit some sort of emotional response cause yeah I'm not that gullible. Looking at a photo, and immediately coming to a conclusion when you don't have the facts is retarded. A couple questions immediately come to mind when I see that photo. #1 is the photo even real. #2 is it actually a genetically modified cow....I mean it could just have birth defects...or just be a new type of breed. #3 ok it looks weird...but that doesn't necessarily mean that its morally wrong. Did the genetic changes negatively impact the cows health? Until I have those answers...I'm not going to jump to any conclusions. However for the sake of the argument...lets say that for some reason or another its morally wrong to genetically modify the animal in that way. However that doesn't mean that all genetic modifications are bad or morally wrong. Do you think genetically modifying animals is wrong? What if it can save millions of people? Right now scientists are working on a genetically modified mosquito that is immune to malaria. They have to figure out a way to make the gene more likely to pass on...but once they do that they can introduce them to the mosquito population...it will save millions of lives. I suppose you consider that to be morally wrong as well right. |
kikyo1hinamora said: the poin sobanoodle said: the point of this argument is to tell you that your cause to not eat meat because animal feel pain is just a stupid argument since you also eat plant witch also feel pain so everything you sad was shit and yes we eat meat because it is delicious but also because eating only plants isn't good and you know when i see animals being murdered in a cruel way i do react like any other meat eater at least most of them and there are difference between killing an animal in cruel way and to a pointless cause like for fun and killing animals in a more humanitarian way and fo a purpose like being eaten witch is the cause why most animals or at least half of them exist in the first place and why does the fish exist if it is not to be eaten Fuck off please. Even if plants could feel pain and emotions as much as animals can, (which I seriously doubt), eating meat kills more plants anyway. Have you seen how much food and water a cow consumes? The U.S could feed almost a billion people with the amount of grain it grows for livestock, which is about 70% of American grain. The "plants feel pain too" argument is pointless for meat eaters to strike back with, because looking at the facts they consume MORE plants than vegetarians, ironically. Let's face it, the real reason people eat meat isn't usually because they have a solid reason to, it's because meat tastes good and they don't care enough about animal suffering to change. Just admit that you don't care and move on. Vegans may be wrong when they say that plants can't feel anything at all, but this shit is too weak to disprove their points. WOW I'm not even a vegan...and your post pisses me off. This is why I hate people....they think humans are the most important thing in the universe. Reality check the universe doesn't give a flying fuck about you. Modern humans have only existed for about 100,000 years.... 200,000 at best. Where as life on this planet started about 3 - 4 billion years ago. If you think animals exist to please us then you are fucked in the head...or a Christian....probably both. |
astrozombie84 said: i didn't say all of them but at the end everything exist for a purpose even human exist to please other human everyone without any exception in my opinion exist to help an other one and if t wasn't the case why does animals exist or wekikyo1hinamora said: the pointhe point of this argument is to tell you that your cause to not eat meat because animal feel pain is just a stupid argument since you also eat plant witch also feel pain so everything you sad was shit and yes we eat meat because it is delicious but also because eating only plants isn't good and you know when i see animals being murdered in a cruel way i do react like any other meat eater at least most of them and there are difference between killing an animal in cruel way and to a pointless cause like for fun and killing animals in a more humanitarian way and fo a purpose like being eaten witch is the cause why most animals or at least half of them exist in the first place and why does the fish exist if it is not to be eaten WOW I'm not even a vegan...and your post pisses me off. This is why I hate people....they think humans are the most important thing in the universe. Reality check the universe doesn't give a flying fuck about you. Modern humans have only existed for about 100,000 years.... 200,000 at best. Where as life on this planet started about 3 - 4 billion years ago. If you think animals exist to please us then you are fucked in the head...or a Christian....probably both. |
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| @astrozombie84 Sure, it's true that there is alot of misinformation, and i'm open to being wrong i'm not that stubborn. But i haven't found somthing that changed my mind. yes i haven't backed up my claims but you neither. No i diden't want to trigger any emotions it was just the first thing that came to my mind considering we were talking about milk. The pic i shared was of a "Belgian Blue" it's a mix of gene mutation and cross breeding. Yes it negatively impacts the cows health. I'd say yes it's bad to do it, maybe "perhaps" it can save lifes like your example with the mosquito's. But meanwhile millions of other animals are being modified out of greed and other shenanigans, not for saving lifes. |
kikyo1hinamora said: astrozombie84 said: i didn't say all of them but at the end everything exist for a purpose even human exist to please other human everyone without any exception in my opinion exist to help an other one and if t wasn't the case why does animals exist or weWOW I'm not even a vegan...and your post pisses me off. This is why I hate people....they think humans are the most important thing in the universe. Reality check the universe doesn't give a flying fuck about you. Modern humans have only existed for about 100,000 years.... 200,000 at best. Where as life on this planet started about 3 - 4 billion years ago. If you think animals exist to please us then you are fucked in the head...or a Christian....probably both. Except in this case the animals help us by literally fucking dying...in order to feed us. If you think their purpose is to be cut in to pieces....then like I said you are fucking twisted in the head. Hey maybe your purpose is to make my life better at the expense of your own. #makeslaverylegalagain. Effulgence said: @astrozombie84 Sure, it's true that there is alot of misinformation, and i'm open to being wrong i'm not that stubborn. But i haven't found somthing that changed my mind. yes i haven't backed up my claims but you neither. No i diden't want to trigger any emotions it was just the first thing that came to my mind considering we were talking about milk. The pic i shared was of a "Belgian Blue" it's a mix of gene mutation and cross breeding. Yes it negatively impacts the cows health. I'd say yes it's bad to do it, maybe "perhaps" it can save lifes like your example with the mosquito's. But meanwhile millions of other animals are being modified out of greed and other shenanigans, not for saving lifes. None of my claims have been outlandish though. However Ill play fair...ask me to back up one of my claims...and I will do it. How does it negatively impact the cows health? I mean Im sure you have a scientific study on it for me to read. FYI that was sarcasm. The thing is I don't think people genetically modify plants & animals out of greed. Generally I believe its done in order to benefit man kind....but hey I'm an optimist. *edit* reread your post...and you said gene mutation...so ok your right on that one. Gene mutation can lead to alot of negative side effects...So Ill take your word on that. However gene mutation is old school...its all about crispr now. |
astrozombie84Apr 12, 2017 7:22 AM
| Well technically the animals u r eating eat plants, which in turn means that u are indirectly yet viciously torturing plants u killer |
  |
'Non-vegans always wonder why they get laughed at' HAHAHAHAHA from my REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE it's the other way around.  |
mountainheartApr 12, 2017 7:41 AM
astrozombie84 said: Except in this case the animals help us by literally fucking dying...in order to feed us. If you think their purpose is to be cut in to pieces....then like I said you are fucking twisted in the head. Hey maybe your purpose is to make my life better at the expense of your own. #makeslaverylegalagain. You are comparing this to slavery? Are you out of your mind? You sound like Sorsha  @ultravigo lol That made me laugh xD |
swirlydragonApr 12, 2017 7:43 AM
shotz said: op what i was trying to say in my first post is you're misinterpreting that study. i know because i've seen people bring it up before and bring up the same argument w/o reading it. reacting to stimuli=/=experiencing pain/emotions. if you seriously think plants have feelings you're retarded. i'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt for now and just assume you're just talking out your ass. According to researchers at the Institute for Applied Physics at the University of Bonn in Germany, plants release gases that are the equivalent of crying out in pain. shotz said: and like the person i quoted said, you indirectly consume more plants by eating meat anyway. No, if we don't kill those animals then they'll keep on eating those plants for the rest of their lives! It will kill far more plants! #PLANTS LIVES MATTER |
swirlydragon said: astrozombie84 said: Except in this case the animals help us by literally fucking dying...in order to feed us. If you think their purpose is to be cut in to pieces....then like I said you are fucking twisted in the head. Hey maybe your purpose is to make my life better at the expense of your own. #makeslaverylegalagain. You are comparing this to slavery? Are you out of your mind? You sound like Sorsha @ultravigo lol That made me laugh xD I'm not saying that eating animals is comparable to slavery....mostly because I eat animals myself...also because its stupid. Maybe you should reread my post cause you completely missed my point. The other guy asserted two things. A: certain animals exist solely to feed humans even though it means their own life will perish. B: Humans also exist to help other humans. I know he didn't mean it like that but my point was that if animals exist purely to serve us at the expensive of their own life...then why should other humans be exempt from that. Which is way I brought up slavery, try to keep up. I don't think eating animals is wrong....but that doesn't mean that an animal's purpose in life is to be our bitch. |
shotz said: they wouldn't breed the animals in the first place if people like you didn't eat them you fucking plant murderer. If we don't kill animals then they'll keep on breeding and eat plants for the rest of their life. In fact they'll keep on breeding for the rest of their life |
shotz said: there would be no need to kill them if people didn't breed them in the first place. you think dairy cows breed their whole lives as a choice? they are artificially inseminated ie. raped so they'll keep lactating. some guy literally shoves his hand with a cow-spunk glove up its vag. Does someone artificially breed a human? NO! So why do we have the highest population? It's because other species can't massacre us. Therefore, if we don't kill animals then their population will also increase and destroy our ecosystem |
| @shotz Whatever! Your arguments are preposterous. Except insulting me, you can do nothing You already know, you lost! You have no real argument to support your claim |
shotz said: swirlydragon said: there would be no need to kill them if people didn't breed them in the first place. you think dairy cows breed their whole lives as a choice? they are artificially inseminated ie. raped so they'll keep lactating. some guy literally shoves his hand with a cow-spunk glove up its vag. If we don't kill animals then they'll keep on breeding and eat plants for the rest of their life. In fact they'll keep on breeding for the rest of their life You are mostly right....but you got one thing wrong. Cows don't need to constantly be prego in order to produce milk...They only have to be pregnant once. As long as you keep stimulating lactation then they will keep producing milk. That applies to all mammals. Even humans are that way...there are stories of women that breast feed children for a very long time....were talking 6 year olds...which is pretty creepy. |
swirlydragon said: shotz said: there would be no need to kill them if people didn't breed them in the first place. you think dairy cows breed their whole lives as a choice? they are artificially inseminated ie. raped so they'll keep lactating. some guy literally shoves his hand with a cow-spunk glove up its vag. Does someone artificially breed a human? NO! So why do we have the highest population? It's because other species can't massacre us. Therefore, if we don't kill animals then their population will also increase and destroy our ecosystem Humans don't have the highest population. Rats easily have a bigger population then us. There is also about 18 billion chickens. In terms of large animals though yes we are winning. However that has far more to do with technology then our place in the food chain. pre industrial revolution the human population was only 700 million...give or take a couple million. Once the industrial revolution happened though we were able to produce vastly more food....mostly because of oil....this allowed for the human population to sky rocket. Killing animals makes zero fucking difference when we are breeding them faster then we are eating them. |
astrozombie84 said: Humans don't have the highest population. Rats easily have a bigger population then us. There is also about 18 billion chickens. In terms of large animals though yes we are winning. However that has far more to do with technology then our place in the food chain. pre industrial revolution the human population was only 700 million...give or take a couple million. Once the industrial revolution happened though we were able to produce vastly more food....mostly because of oil....this allowed for the human population to sky rocket. Killing animals makes zero fucking difference when we are breeding them faster then we are eating them. Yeah so if we breed and kill them then it wouldn't make much of a difference. But if we don't kill them then they'll keep on breeding and will kill more plants. Their population might increase up to a million or two millions and then those million/two millions will keep on eating plants and keep on breeding |
swirlydragon said: astrozombie84 said: Humans don't have the highest population. Rats easily have a bigger population then us. There is also about 18 billion chickens. In terms of large animals though yes we are winning. However that has far more to do with technology then our place in the food chain. pre industrial revolution the human population was only 700 million...give or take a couple million. Once the industrial revolution happened though we were able to produce vastly more food....mostly because of oil....this allowed for the human population to sky rocket. Killing animals makes zero fucking difference when we are breeding them faster then we are eating them. Yeah so if we breed and kill them then it wouldn't make much of a difference. But if we don't kill them then they'll keep on breeding and will kill more plants. Their population might increase up to a million or two millions and then those million/two millions will keep on eating plants and keep on breeding Or we could stop breeding them....yes they can breed on their own....but not nearly as quick. |
swirlydragon said: AxBattler said: Err, no. You are misinterpreting the results of his studies. Here is the original paper: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/S00442-014-2995-6 Does the word "pain" appear anywhere in it? No. And the reason for that is, while the study showed plants react to sound (vibration) stimuli, yes, one that matches the one which might be a threat to itself, it is -not- a proof of pain. Being able to sense something, or being pre-programmed to react to something, doesn't mean that something is pain. Sorry bruh but I was referrring to this guy:- Heidi Appel is a senior research scientist in the Division of Plant Sciences in the College of Agriculture, Food and Natural Resources and the Bond Life Sciences Center at MU. The article you provided does not show which scientist worked on that particular research while my article provides the name of the scientist who worked on the research @sobanoodle Yeah and if we don't kill those animals then they'll keep on eating those plants for the rest of their lives! #PLANTS LIVES MATTER @LabelFlash Why don't you watch this video? It's awesome :) If we didn't breed those billions of animals for food they wouldn't be eating so many plants :p. This is why I think that meat eater arguments are usually poorly thought out. |
| You are now breathing manually. |
| From his comments on this thread I'm guessing that op is either trolling or has an IQ of 60 or below. I hope for his sake it's the first one. |
| You are now breathing manually. |
| In most cases the plants are not killed, it's just the fruits/vegetables that are plucked out and they do not bleed. They aren't kept in horrible circumstances and then killed. Besides unless you eat raw meat all the the time you are killing those plants too for the sake of those plant based ingredients you use in cooking. Don't try to use something that you don't even possess. I'm not vegan not even vegetarian for the record, I'm a pescetarian. |
AxBattler said: @astrozombie84 @astrozombie84 re: Mutation in Belgian Blue Just to clarify, it is a natural mutation. Scientists didn't go and modify the DNA as in the case, this one basically just appeared and breeders managed to keep it. While this breed does have some problems, I thought it was important to note that not all mutations are malignant (some are benign and even beneficial). Natural mutations is how species evolves. Now I'll be honest in saying that I am not completely against GE (with a couple of caveat), but that's another can of worm I'll leave it for now. Actually that is only one of the ways a species evolves. Survival of the fittest is the other way. As in animals with positive traits are more likely to survive...and they breed with other animals with positive traits. I know not all mutations are bad...for example blue eyes are a mutation. However most mutations are bad....because of how genes mutate. Normally its caused by radiation or other external factors. There are other ways but its not as common. If gene mutations were generally good then I would be purposely exposing myself to UV rays....so my child can be the next xman....or woman. a day at the beach: 22$ skin cancer treatment: 137$ a child with super powers: priceless I can't say that I really know or care about cow breeds....but thanks for the info. P.S. Im joking about the super powers....before you take what I said literally....like pretty much every other person on this site. |
swirlydragon said: @Bobby2Hands @Darek PLANTS CRY TOO! AT LEAST READ MY POST BEFORE REPLYING Heidi Appel is a senior research scientist in the Division of Plant Sciences in the College of Agriculture, Food and Natural Resources and the Bond Life Sciences Center at MU. He was the one who proved that plants feel pain, they also cry and they even try to protect themselves and yet you are saying he is wrong because plants do not have CNS? Plants do not have CNS because their body structure is different but that doesn't mean they CAN'T FEEL PAIN Let me ask you one thing, since people like you know so much about plants THEN WHY ARE YOU NOT PUBLISHING YOUR THEORIES OR RESULTS? Who knows, you might win a nobel prize because of it pfft Btw this is a video that demonstrates that plants really do feel pain:- Your learning comprehension needs work if you think that video means "plants feel pain". I've already seen people explain it to you so hopefully you got it by now. |
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