Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) 2nd Season Episode 4 Discussion

nocorras said:
How was it a stupid move lol? Lancer was hitting on the girl he just confessed to.

Pat_To_Do-List said:
"I just wanted to let you know that there's only one pendant. That's the only thing I wanted to tell you. Nothing more." I already know that(& the other things that she explained). And if that's for another foreshadowing about who Archer really is, that's still unnecessary.

WrongPriest said:


It was a little stupid lol, but I still love it.

nocorras said:
How was it a stupid move lol? Lancer was hitting on the girl he just confessed to.

WrongPriest said:
That was for Shirou's benefit, and I guess maybe for the benefit of the viewers out there that haven't figured it out yet.

Pat_To_Do-List said:

In a middle of a Holy Grail War & a chance to know who's his master? Pretty silly I must say.

CapsuleCore said:
It's not as obvious as you make it out to be, else there wouldn't be that many people who ask what the meaning of it is. It's subtly revealing the truth of something people suspected before, when Rin said that the pendant is one of a kind.

Gov said:
Agreed. Way too comfortable and happy go lucky considering the gravity of the situation.

There was no need for that besides needless Shirou/Rin ship moments.

Gov said:

Agreed. Way too comfortable and happy go lucky considering the gravity of the situation.

Pat_To_Do-List said:

In a middle of a Holy Grail War & a chance to know who's his master? Pretty silly I must say.

thevenusadept said:
I hope they decently choreograph the fights next week and that it doesn't turn out to be 'SFX:The episode'.

Pat_To_Do-List said:

In a middle of a Holy Grail War & a chance to know who's his master? Pretty silly I must say.



When something is obvious, the anime keeps showing us foreshadowing about it. But when something else desperately needs an explanation, nothing's done.

CapsuleCore said:
Perhaps it's silly, but it made Shirou more sympathetic in Lancer's eyes, so all's good.

CapsuleCore said:
Because it's a relevant plot point in this route. Shirou's self-healing is secondary and had more relevance in Fate and anyone who watched Fate/Zero can still figure it out.

And wow, the main characters aren't always deadly serious. You don't think Lancer would have really revealed who his Master is, do you? He is the one who offers help. Shirou is in no real position to make conditions and Lancer's Master isn't a major threat, so it's of no big concern to Shirou, who originally didn't want to participate in the Grail War anyway. Perhaps it's silly, but it made Shirou more sympathetic in Lancer's eyes, so all's good.

Darkmoq said:


Wrongpriest:

I like both, actually. Work keeps me from binge-reading the VN but I’ll finish it eventually. In general though I like the anime story telling medium more than the VN/Manga one but that’s just me. In the case of the ufotable FSN anime I think the production value is stellar but there are issues with pacing and character dev. Is that to be expected given time constraints? Sure. But that doesn’t mean I need to bury my face in the anime’s balls like some viewers and pretend like the problems don’t exist.

Othi-tan:

Sorry dude your nut-hugging has obscured your vision.
You keep harping on and on about this minor point I made about Rin’s dream. You used this red herring last week to get out of answering my critiques.

To be fair, you’re probably right. The possible interpretation I offered for a concept introduced in the brief 60s dream sequence might well be wrong. Shocker. I even said I wasn’t familiar with the mechanics magic in the FSN universe so I’ll take you word for it. So what? Correct or incorrect it’s still plausible. The fact that you’re going to correct me with VN lore just proves my point that a lot of things are not self-evident from the anime material.

I don’t expect to get through to you. You’ve already shown me your inability to comprehend simple arguments and your eagerness to take minor comments out of context.

thevenusadept said:
Really really disappointed by surgery. It was nothing. No emotional impact whatsoever. I can't believe I'm saying this but Deen did it better than Ufo.

GangstaPriest said:
I think they made a conscious decision to place all the emotional impact of Illya's death in the previous episode.
As she was already dead when episode 4 began, the need for le epic heart surgery was no longer there, except maybe for the extra gore appeal.

OT: the episode was fine. Dialogue heavy but not one bit boring nor confusing. I 'gasmed at best man Lancer's appearance and laughed at the "don't touch my tsundere" scene. Archer's discussion with Kuzuki-sensei was good as well, and the ep ended just at the right moment.
No real complaint besides the bit with Rin threatening Gil, which was a tad too short in my opinion.

WrongPriest said:
I just now realised we haven't seen Saber once in like 2 episodes. I didn't even notice.

Is anybody having withdrawals?

CookingPriest said:


The heart surgery is not about ILLYA though. It is about SHIROU. You knowm the character that the show forgets even exists.

Othi-tan said:
You dont need understanding of VN mechanics and lore to understand that the dream was about a dead person,a Servant and NOT a human,when the narration specifically mentions SERVANTS.

And unlike you many viewers noticed Shirou's interest in Rin and vice versa and didnt make random interpretations.Just say that you dont like it.Dont try to talk about the story lacking dev or being filled with random made up plot armor.

GangstaPriest said:

Regardless of when Shirou lost it, it would've been completely crazy of him to get down there/informing the enemy of his presence when there was nothing he could possibly do. That's why the modifications of the scene didn't bother me that much.

GangstaPriest said:


And likewise; since ufo made Shirou react to Illya's torture before she died (which isn't actually that unrealistic, considering how horrible it must've been to watch), the need for le epic heart surgery was, again, no longer there.
Regardless of when Shirou lost it, it would've been completely crazy of him to get down there/inform the enemy of his presence when there was nothing he could possibly do. That's why the modifications of the scene didn't bother me that much.

Insertanamehere said:

I'm not sure what you mean here, the heart surgery was after the jump in the VN too.

GangstaPriest said:

Ooh it was? Well shit, imma need to re-read that bit.

Darkmoq said:


Uhh yeah, I never said that dream was about a living person...

Rin was talking about a special class of heroic spirits called "Protectors".
These Protectors are "summoned" to different ages to "save" humanity.
It is unclear if this process even involves the Holy Grail War
It is unclear what power summons these "Protectors" to these ages to begin with.
Do they get summoned by mages? Does the Grail just put them there? Do Protector spirits get summoned to various ages as adults? In the same bodies?

And you know what? I am OK with not knowing right now. It's fine that this scene is vague because I trust these questions will be explained later in the series--if not fully then at least enough to make sense. You seem to think I should have the answers based on the anime material.

I'm not going to debate who liked who when in an anime romance--and definitely not on a MAL forum. That's where I draw the line. I guess you see nothing abrupt between Shirou in E12 and Shirou in E13. That's fine. Feel free to disagree.

WrongPriest said:


Whether I'm allowed to distinguish if information left out due to a POV change is detrimental to the anime without starting a war..

>.>
<.<

I feel you'll probably answer your own questions yourself as you go through the VN, as one thing it certainly isn't lacking is an abundance of information.

-The date should make sense, at least in hindsight.
-Shirou's perspective on Rin in some earlier scenes will pad out the relationship gaps.

Also as you might have noticed by now but Shirou dies a comedic amount of times. Finding all the dumb deaths is basically the only Minigame, You get stamps for it :3

Darkmoq said:


Thanks.

Actually you bring up an excellent point about the dead end routes. In the VN, you are Shirou. If you do something stupid, cowardly or just unlucky you'll die a horrible death and have to restart. Through trial and error you'll figure out a path that gets Shirou to the end. It kind of gives you the feeling of navigating danger.

In the anime you are NOT Shirou. You see him automatically make the right choices as if he's guided by magical cherubs. Obviously killing Shirou off in Episode 3 wouldn't work for the show but I would think bits of original content could be strategically inserted to explain away alternative paths wouldn't work. Anyway, I'm done bitching about this episode. Still looking forward to next week's showdown.

Forgetfulness said:
Btw, not sure if this has already been pointed out, but did anybody else notice this pic in the episode? :|


^ Massive VN spoilers. Don't click unless you know the entire route

Forgetfulness said:
Btw, not sure if this has already been pointed out, but did anybody else notice this pic in the episode? :|


^ Massive VN spoilers. Don't click unless you know the entire route

Insertanamehere said:

Jump off
Staring contest
Winter forest
Staring contest pt.2
Heart rip

WAD1992 said:


archer is actually a cameo appearance for this guy



or so i've heard that its where nasu got inspired to make archer, they have similar back-stories as well.

GangstaPriest said:
thanks m8.

But Fai, if he did get noticed by Gil before the heart surgery in both versions, what changed that made his reaction so much more dangerous for him and Rin?
Aah, I get it; that's because he didn't jump, right? Yeah that's something I hadn't considered before. Rin could've gotten harmed as well, indeed.

Anyways, I think my point about the emotional impact of Illya's death still stands: it was placed in the last episode, but I believe it applies to the impact it had on Shirou as well. We perfectly saw that he couldn't stand it and given his previous characterization we understand why, and like I said by the time he got out of the rubble she was dead, so the gory heart rip was pointless.
Though in retrospect, I think I get where you're coming from: they could've (and should've) put a stronger emphasis on Shirou's state of mind during Illya's torture, and I understand why the scene might have come off as poorly done, from that point of view. It didn't bother me when I watched it, but keeping to the original events might have been the better option.

Ah shit.

GangstaPriest said:

But Fai, if he did get noticed by Gil before the heart surgery in both versions, what changed that made his reaction so much more dangerous for him and Rin?
Aah, I get it; that's because he didn't jump, right? Yeah that's something I hadn't considered before. Rin could've gotten harmed as well, indeed.

Othi-tan said:
You connected the scene to a living person and called it DEM .

Wth I will just paste your quote

The scene makes no connection between Archer and him.The dream was solely about Archer; and .
So no, your issues with the series is that you see DEM and plot armor in everything.There is a reason why Shirou self heals,why Rin reacts to sudden developments,why he isnt killed by Rider,why Shirou summoned Saber,why Lancer was playing with him etc.You dont like it I get it.But it isnt plot armor.Especially when the plot can kill him in equally canon endings.As for him being reckless...yeah...he can either stay still and die or act "recklessly"...obviously doing nothing is better.

And what is different about ep12 Shirou and ep13 and 16 Shirou?Nothing.If you didnt see Shirou staring at Rin when they eat,acting uncomfortable when she is in his house, going out of his way to greet her and of course Rin's totally different behaviour when she is with himher reaction when he was stabbed by Lancer etc, then it is your fault.
You dont need an entire season of people saying they like someone to get that they are interested in them.

Othi-tan said:

Yeah people, lets reveal all plot twists and use meta to explain why things make sense.I mean, why would you even try to save your Servant or run away from someone that is attacking you?

What you say doesnt make sense.

Darkmoq said:

Maybe this is incorrect but it's not unreasonable.

Geni-2-ol said:
Oh man, this was cringe-worthy as fuck.

ElPysCongroo said:
Reading some of these posts ugh.... reminds me why I barely even bother with MAL anymore.

Darkmoq said:


Maybe not to you.

CapsuleCore said:
Protector isn't a mistranslation. Don't blame them for not using terms from the knk dictionary.

Othi-tan said:
Isnt it Deterrent Force in knk?Just saying.

CapsuleCore said:
Yeah, there's also that.

守護者is commonly translated as "protector" so there is nothing to complain about here. It's as valid as translating 令呪 as Command Seal, even though officially it's called Command Mantra or Command Spell.

Othi-tan said:
No, I wasnt bothered by it beyond being more used to Counter Force/Guardians.

CapsuleCore said:
Protector isn't a mistranslation. Don't blame them for not using terms from the knk dictionary.

fateoffate said:
Did they skip the heart breaking scene? I didn't see it.