| Everyone seems to be starting a thread so I thought I'd join in. Anyway, most people seem to agree that the Fate route is the weakest out of the 3 in the VN (Fate, Unlimited Blade Works, Heaven's Feel). The main reason most people point to is because there are long stretches where not much happens. I do agree that the first half of the route drags on too long and is too slow paced, but I feel the second half is much stronger as thing start to pick up. So question to all those who read the VN (feel free to make connections to other routes, Deen's adaptation, or this anime): How do you see the Fate route quality-wise? What did you like/dislike about it? |
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| I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's a really solid, 8/10 route, but it has the misfortune of being in the same VN as Unlimited Blade Works and Heaven's Feel, which are two of my favorite stories in my time with anime/manga/VN's. It suffers as a result. I do really like Shirou's characterization and how him not wanting to change his past, instead wishing to live with it because it would dilute all of the loss, and how this effects Saber in the end to be really well done as well. Also, Saber vs. Rider on the building, Saber vs. Berserker in the Einzbern forest and the final final battles are quite cool. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Fate is the best route simply because |
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| + Great psychological thriller atmosphere + Great inner monologues + Great tension + Great Shirou character establishment + Bye Shinji + Great Rin scenes + Great backstory for Saber and her character development till her ending + Lots of worldbuilding + Great Illya scenes and build-up + Great foreshadowing for next route. - Boring as fuck heroine "personality" - Low badass action amount. - Last Episode is a thing. - Boring as fuck "romance". So I would give around ~6 to 7 out of Ten. Its the polar opposite of HF where A LOT OF BADASS STUFF happens, but the build-up and the start of route is dull as fuck and the main heroine does not develop at all. |
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| I dislike the forced romance between Saber and Shirou. And as insan3priest said, UBW and HF happen to be in the same VN so you get the idea. |
antonn said: Fate is the best route simply because i like the original version more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivGLQS-q2CM |
| No I don't really think it is. Sure I like UBW more but still, I think people should not judge Fate route for what it isn't. As far as I am concerned, it is a great route and without it UBW and HF wouldn't be as good as they are. Just look at how many changes they are doing to UBW adaptation to compensate for lack of Fate route. |
BotatoOct 28, 2014 10:08 AM
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| I preferred rider and berserker as mid-bosses to caster and kuzuki. But the UBW finale/last 3rd was epic. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| The romance was boring. I kind of got what was supposed to be conveyed, but I got so annoyed by the repetetive dreams about Saber that I almost started to actually dislike "Ever Present Feelings"! Compared to that, HF cooking scenes were almost like a Masterpiece of writing |
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| The scene with the orphans was creepy to and the dead end where saber slashes shirou because he doesn't have enough saber points was good. That's another thing, I liked the bad ends more because there was still mystery to the killer-like that one where caster captures shirou. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| Despite it's issues and lag and being the introductory route, I actually quite liked it. 8.5/10 for me. CookingPriest said: + Great psychological thriller atmosphere + Great inner monologues + Great tension + Great Shirou character establishment + Bye Shinji + Great Rin scenes + Great backstory for Saber and her character development till her ending + Lots of worldbuilding + Great Illya scenes and build-up + Great foreshadowing for next route. - Boring as fuck heroine "personality" - Low badass action amount. - Last Episode is a thing. - Boring as fuck "romance". So I would give around ~6 to 7 out of Ten. Its the polar opposite of HF where A LOT OF BADASS STUFF happens, but the build-up and the start of route is dull as fuck and the main heroine does not develop at all. Wait you said Saber has "great character development" then called her a brick. |
notJune said: Also I dislike the whole "She has to become a girl to become happy" where the narrative in a sense then reinforces Shirou's ideas about how "women should be" via Saber's abrupt transformation into waifu. I can see the pov that it's saying "Saber needs to be a girl to be happy", but I don't think that's what they were going for. "Being a girl" was really just used as a substitute for not suppressing your emotions. Kind of like Rider said in F/Z that she never had the joy of being a child and essentially killed all her desires. |
MickdrewOct 28, 2014 10:13 AM
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antonn said: Fate is the best route simply because Well, that is indeed a fantastic track. Is it really not used again? |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3priest said: antonn said: Fate is the best route simply because Well, that is indeed a fantastic track. Is it really not used again? Nope. Only that one time as far as I remember. |
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| I can only hope that june post is sarcasm because holy shit do we NOT need the"Fate is sexist, shirou is sexist" nonsense here AGAIN, just after we all rebutted that bullshit. InsertPriestHere said: Wait you said Saber has "great character development" then called her a brick. Character development =/= Character personality. |
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| Gods, where's CorePriest when you need it, because I am too tired to go indepth onto japanese culture and why its not sexist, nor go in depth on why any spoken phrases out of shirou's mouth mean nothing since he does not think nor mean that. |
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CookingPriest said: It's all good. Just link the post and save both time and effort.Gods, where's CorePriest when you need it, because I am too tired to go indepth onto japanese culture and why its not sexist, nor go in depth on why any spoken phrases out of shirou's mouth mean nothing since he does not think nor mean that. |
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notJune said: CookingPriest said: I can only hope that june post is sarcasm because holy shit do we NOT need the"Fate is sexist, shirou is sexist" nonsense here AGAIN, just after we all rebutted that bullshit. >"Women should be docile" >"Hopefully this incident will remind Mitsuzuri of her femininity." Shirou saying sexist things =/= the VN itself being sexist. CONTEXT MATTERS Both quotes are very stupid, and Shriou is made to look stupid as a result of saying them. For example, after he said "Hopefully this incident will remind Mitsuzuri of her femininity", he was blackmailed by Tohsaka who threatened to tell Mitsuzuri what he said (which Taiga said she'd do anyways). |
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Sloth- said: er. [/spoiler][/quote]I'm not sure... Shits about to get good. Though, I think the entirety of UBW is better than Fate. Opinions and all that. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
notJune said: My thoughts exactly.It's generously mediocre, though I'd say for most it's bad. Reasons why as follows: -It has a lot of fluff, scenes that could easily have been shortened down drag on and on (this is a complaint for the whole VN as well) all because Nasu didn't seem to have an editor. -The romance between both Shirou and Saber is laughably bad as for one it has Shirou making verbal assaults upon Saber's character that's only rebutted once in the story (before the Temple) and then pretty much dropped resistance-wise. Saber's character also goes through a jarring growth where she becomes almost meek and docile post mana transfer which clashes with her established character. Also I dislike the whole "She has to become a girl to become happy" where the narrative in a sense then reinforces Shirou's ideas about how "women should be" via Saber's abrupt transformation into waifu. -Infodumping is a terrible, lazy way to convey information to the reader and this game has it in spades. The thing is though that the Fate route is the biggest offender of these unnecessarily drawn out and repeated acts of dumpage. tldr: -SoL scenes are bad -Saber's romance is bad -Kotomine has been holding that dump in for 10 years |
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
| Whether Shirou is sexist will be debated as long as Fate/ is a thing, unfortunately. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| I've always seen the routes in this context: The Fate route is the introduction, the Unlimited Blade Works route is the escalation and the Heaven's Feel route is the subversion. The Fate route gets us acclimated to the world, characters, setting and rules that we need to know in order to fully immerse ourselves into Fate/Stay Night. With all that important world building out of the way we then have the Unlimited Blade Works route which takes advantage of the fact that we understand everything we need to know and then turns everything up to 11 in order to bring us a more focused and compelling narrative. We then finish off with Heaven's Feel that takes everything we know and turns it on it's head and mindfucks us into oblivion with some crazy and fucked up shit. We can debate whether or not the Fate route is bad or not and I agree that there are things that can be improved ( I am sure Nasu himself will be the first to admit that) but it's a very necessary route that adds to the experience in a very significant way. All the routes are required to create the full experience. If one of the routes was gone you would be missing a vital part of what makes the VN so good. With all that in mind I like the Fate route. Yeah it has some issues but it still does its job of introducing us to what we need to know and does a fairly good job of it. I firmly believe that the despite its flaws, the VN would be less without it. |
| One of the pet peeves I have about people saying shirou is stupid due to the "people die when they are killed" thing but in the vn he's referencing the fact that avalon heals all his wounds. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
Shintai said: I've always seen the routes in this context: The Fate route is the introduction, the Unlimited Blade Works route is the escalation and the Heaven's Feel route is the subversion. The Fate route gets us acclimated to the world, characters, setting and rules that we need to know in order to fully immerse ourselves into Fate/Stay Night. With all that important world building out of the way we then have the Unlimited Blade Works route which takes advantage of the fact that we understand everything we need to know and then turns everything up to 11 in order to bring us a more focused and compelling narrative. We then finish off with Heaven's Feel that takes everything we know and turns it on it's head and mindfucks us into oblivion with some crazy and fucked up shit. We can debate whether or not the Fate route is bad or not and I agree that there are things that can be improved ( I am sure Nasu himself will be the first to admit that) but it's a very necessary route that adds to the experience in a very significant way. All the routes are required to create the full experience. If one of the routes was gone you would be missing a vital part of what makes the VN so good. With all that in mind I like the Fate route. Yeah it has some issues but it still does its job of introducing us to what we need to know and does a fairly good job of it. I firmly believe that the despite its flaws, the VN would be less without it. Well, this was just a perfect way to put it really. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Thank you kindly insane3priest. =) |
Shintai said: Thank you kindly insane3priest. =) All I can hope for is that the changes to compensate for no Fate route in this series will continue to work. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Part of me is starting to think that there may be a saber indentity reveal. Maybe just to rin would be good. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
Shintai said: I've always seen the routes in this context: The Fate route is the introduction, the Unlimited Blade Works route is the escalation and the Heaven's Feel route is the subversion. The Fate route gets us acclimated to the world, characters, setting and rules that we need to know in order to fully immerse ourselves into Fate/Stay Night. With all that important world building out of the way we then have the Unlimited Blade Works route which takes advantage of the fact that we understand everything we need to know and then turns everything up to 11 in order to bring us a more focused and compelling narrative. We then finish off with Heaven's Feel that takes everything we know and turns it on it's head and mindfucks us into oblivion with some crazy and fucked up shit. We can debate whether or not the Fate route is bad or not and I agree that there are things that can be improved ( I am sure Nasu himself will be the first to admit that) but it's a very necessary route that adds to the experience in a very significant way. All the routes are required to create the full experience. If one of the routes was gone you would be missing a vital part of what makes the VN so good. With all that in mind I like the Fate route. Yeah it has some issues but it still does its job of introducing us to what we need to know and does a fairly good job of it. I firmly believe that the despite its flaws, the VN would be less without it. Hear, hear! |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
mickdrew_99 said: notJune said: >"Women should be docile" >"Hopefully this incident will remind Mitsuzuri of her femininity." Shirou saying sexist things =/= the VN itself being sexist. CONTEXT MATTERS Both quotes are very stupid, and Shriou is made to look stupid as a result of saying them. For example, after he said "Hopefully this incident will remind Mitsuzuri of her femininity", he was blackmailed by Tohsaka who threatened to tell Mitsuzuri what he said (which Taiga said she'd do anyways). Like I said I while ago and in another thread, the real issue here lies in the fact that Shirou's line of thought in Fate (and to a lesser extent in the other routes) and what problems it poses are never adressed directly. It's either played for the laugh (Tohsaka/Fuji-nee blackmail), carefully bypassed (how awful the SaberxShirou relationship was for 2/3rds of the route) or downright ignored (MC's inner monologues exposing ideas that no one can hear, nor challenge). And when the MC's backwards thoughts end up getting backed up and confirmed by the narrative (the whole deal with Saber needing to be a "girl" to be happy), then it's not just a matter of one single character acting a certain way anymore: it's the whole work that should be taken into consideration. In retrospect, the more I think about it, the more jarring it gets, considering how atypical and free of normative beliefs about genders something like KnK was. Now that I think about it, I hope this line about Mitsuzuri won't appear in UBW. It sucked bad enough the first time I heard it: I would gladly do without a second one. |
SapewlothOct 28, 2014 1:41 PM
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
| It doesn't appear in UBW at all, that line about Mitsuzuri. So I doubt it'll appear in the anime. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3priest said: Yes it does?It doesn't appear in UBW at all, that line about Mitsuzuri. So I doubt it'll appear in the anime. |
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
| I finished fate route a few days ago,and im now reading UBW. What i noticed is that UBW is a lot more fast paced and action packed,but the immersion on the fate route is greater. Having said that im only on day 8 on UBW so i cant say right now which i like better. However i hardly can see myself liking other routes that Saber is not the main focus. Also ill have to agree that for the 2/3s of the fate route,the interactions between Shirou and Saber,not only romance wise,are a bit miss. Well,all in all,if you get immersed on Sabers backstory and progression,all that becomes negligible. |
Taimanin_IreliaOct 28, 2014 1:38 PM
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black1blade said: Well there is....at the very end....Part of me is starting to think that there may be a saber indentity reveal. Maybe just to rin would be good. GangstaPriest said: Fight! FIGHT!insan3priest said: Yes it does?It doesn't appear in UBW at all, that line about Mitsuzuri. So I doubt it'll appear in the anime. |
GangstaPriest said: insan3priest said: Yes it does?It doesn't appear in UBW at all, that line about Mitsuzuri. So I doubt it'll appear in the anime. I recently read that part in the VN, I swear it didn't happen there. That line about it being (and I'm paraphrasing please don't crucify me guys!) "good" for her being attacked was in the Fate route. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3priest said: GangstaPriest said: Yes it does? I recently read that part in the VN, I swear it didn't happen there. That line about it being (and I'm paraphrasing please don't crucify me guys!) "good" for her being attacked was in the Fate route. Pretty sure you have to hand in your priest card if you're wrong. |
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antonn said: insan3priest said: I recently read that part in the VN, I swear it didn't happen there. That line about it being (and I'm paraphrasing please don't crucify me guys!) "good" for her being attacked was in the Fate route. Pretty sure you have to hand in your priest card if you're wrong. Why does your avatar fit so well with pretty much everything thing you type? |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| I guess I'm with the minority. Though I'd never rate the Fate route higher than UBW or HF, it has enough personal meaning to "compete" for my favourite spot. Shirou/Saber romance may have not clicked with everyone, but it's my favourite from the 3. I'm always fond of first looks/introductory, especially on Shirou's ideals, and the impact those two left on me by the end justified the already solid means; "sorrow" is a memorable OST. The "two broken counterparts"/"my saya" just worked for me, and the finale with Emiya playing for the first time is iconic. Kirei also got his "build-up" for Heaven's Feel there too. The funny part is, though not by much, Archer was always my favourite character (even during the Fate route). Mostly because I "knew" and was reading through the foreshadowing. The Shirou/Archer exchangesto name one, made me anticipate what's to come in UBW even more. Though what sealed the deal for me was when Rin was teaching Shirou one night and she brought up Archer's hypothetical wish for the grail to Shirou (he voiced it). Archer's final stand (Watched DEEN ep. 14 for the hell of it) while the three were "making mana" nearly brought me to tears lol. I always remembered "who Archer is", and my thought-processes started to run wild. I was rewarded for it all even more in UBW when Archer got the same focus as Saber did in Fate. Dream sequences are always nicely handled. So yeah, I, and many more, probably can't even imagine Fate/Stay Night without the Fate Route which nicely sets the path. Although, if it weren't followed up by UBW and HF... yeah, it goes both ways. A re-read makes you appreciate it all even more too. |
Kayaba-Oct 28, 2014 2:29 PM
insan3priest said: No way!GangstaPriest said: Yes it does? I recently read that part in the VN, I swear it didn't happen there. That line about it being (and I'm paraphrasing please don't crucify me guys!) "good" for her being attacked was in the Fate route. I was like 1000% convinced mentions of Ayako's assault happened in UBW and HF, for some reason. If it's true then I'm relieved. |
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
| If you're talking about Shinji's remark on Mitsuzuri, I also feel like it was in UBW. Our memories have been tampered with it seems. |
-Shuda- said: I guess I'm with the minority. Though I'd never rate the Fate route higher than UBW or HF, it has enough personal meaning to "compete" for my favourite spot. Shirou/Saber romance may have not clicked with everyone, but it's my favourite from the 3. I'm always fond of first looks/introductory, especially on Shirou's ideals, and the impact those two left on me by the end justified the already solid means; "sorrow" is a memorable OST. The "two broken counterparts"/"my saya" just worked for me, and the finale with Emiya playing for the first time is iconic. Kirei also got his "build-up" for Heaven's Feel there too. The funny part is, though not by much, Archer was always my favourite character (even during the Fate route). Mostly because I "knew" and was reading through the foreshadowing. The Shirou/Archer exchangesto name one, made me anticipate what's to come in UBW even more. Though what sealed the deal for me was when Rin was teaching Shirou one night and she brought up Archer's hypothetical wish for the grail to Shirou (he voiced it). Archer's final stand (Watched DEEN ep. 14 for the hell of it) while the three were "making mana" nearly brought me to tears lol. I always remembered that Archer is Shirou, and my thought-processes started to run wild. I was rewarded for it all even more in UBW when Archer got the same focus as Saber did in Fate. Dream sequences is one of the charms of Fate as a visual novel. So yeah, I, and many more, probably can't even imagine Fate/Stay Night without the Fate Route which nicely sets the path. Although, if it weren't followed up by UBW and HF... yeah, it goes both ways. A re-read makes you appreciate it all even more too. Agreed for most except for romance, as most of it, except for romance, pretty much is the same how I feel about the route. Fate for me was far more psychological - going deep into what makes Shirou tick, full of tense stand offs and trying to figure out who the masters are and what Illya wants, etc. It was a great route and I can't see the VN without it - hell the fact that they have to add so many anime original scenes in the UBW adaptation now because fate route was not adapted, just goes to show just go essential fate route is. |
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-Shuda- said: If you're talking about Shinji's remark on Mitsuzuri, I also feel like it was in UBW. Our memories have been tampered with it seems. I also seem to remember it being in UBW. |
-Shuda- said: If you're talking about Shinji's remark on Mitsuzuri, I also feel like it was in UBW. Our memories have been tampered with it seems. We are talking about Shirou's remark about Mitsuzuri, when he is eating dinner with Rin, Saber, and Taiga. Rin then uses his words against him to blackmail him into cooking a certain type of food, only for Taiga to say she'll tell Mitsuzuri anyway. The Shinji one, where he is mocking her, is in UBW yeah. No way I'm defending Shinji, fuck him. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3priest said: -Shuda- said: If you're talking about Shinji's remark on Mitsuzuri, I also feel like it was in UBW. Our memories have been tampered with it seems. We are talking about Shirou's remark about Mitsuzuri, when he is eating dinner with Rin, Saber, and Taiga. The Shinji one, where he is mocking her, is in UBW yeah. Ah, gotcha. The one where Rin gives Shirou a warning that "she's her friend" right. -- @CP - I have already accepted your opinion on Saber, so I wont nag :P. YES on everything else. |
Kayaba-Oct 28, 2014 2:55 PM
| @ Shuda Yeah, I edited my post for clarification. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
insan3priest said: @ Shuda Yeah, I edited my post for clarification. *Nod*, lolShinji. |
| Fate 7/10 UBW 10/10 HF 9/10 Zero 9/10 was my route ratings however Fate is the introductionary route giving you all the information about the setting and stuff that the others don't have to do in the same way so it serves a different kind of purpose kinda like Kotori's route in Rewrite |
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